patience is a virtue Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 hindsight is a wonderful thing. i for one am happy that the CH have stuck with Markov. he is worth the wait. i hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 hindsight is a wonderful thing. i for one am happy that the CH have stuck with Markov. he is worth the wait. i hope! Yes,and the better a GM hindsight is the better their team is.How is he worth the wait ? Especially this year. Even if by some miracle he return to his old form the next 2 years,it wasn't worth it. it will be 2 very good years for $30m total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yes,and the better a GM hindsight is the better their team is.How is he worth the wait ? Especially this year. Even if by some miracle he return to his old form the next 2 years,it wasn't worth it. it will be 2 very good years for $30m total. you sir strike me as someone who thinks they know more than they do. certainly, no one could have predicted 3 years ago the kinds of trouble Markov has had. "hindsight", by definition, is analysis after the fact. after the fact, you may rant and rave about how silly it was 3 years ago to bet on Markov, but that is exactly what it would be - silly. i do not think it will take a miracle for Markov to prove worth the wait. vision and passing are the keys to his game. if his knee is serviceable (he will be far from the first NHLer to recover from such prolonged messes) i do not expect it will take him long to remind us why he is one of the best defensemen in the world. just because you have cap room, doesn't mean you can replace the likes of Markov. i hope he recovers and joins a resurgent team for the home stretch and playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So he's been paid appx. $19 m over the last 3 yrs. to play 45 games.Would have been a different team if we had a real and playing franchise Dman,which is what that gets you. If only we live in a utopian habs world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So he's been paid appx. $19 m over the last 3 yrs. to play 45 games.Would have been a different team if we had a real and playing franchise Dman,which is what that gets you. Always easier to take a decision when you know all the facts. The problem with that decision is that it wasn't possible to know all the facts in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Markov not pl;aying for 2 full seasons it looks like........wonder how good he is goign to be. One thing for certian is that if we had a #1 d-man and PP quarterback in our line-up then this season would look different. A broken PP means out of the playoffs. An effective PP means in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Markov not pl;aying for 2 full seasons it looks like........wonder how good he is goign to be. One thing for certian is that if we had a #1 d-man and PP quarterback in our line-up then this season would look different. A broken PP means out of the playoffs. An effective PP means in the playoffs. That's for sure, but what has been done is done. No use to regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Moen could be back next week. I suppose that's a half-positive as no one figured he'd be out this long when classified as DTD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 As long as he is ready for trade deadline time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Markov not pl;aying for 2 full seasons it looks like........wonder how good he is goign to be. One thing for certian is that if we had a #1 d-man and PP quarterback in our line-up then this season would look different. A broken PP means out of the playoffs. An effective PP means in the playoffs. We have the best PK so it evens out.B's were in the 20's last year and won it. So have a few others recently. As long as he is ready for trade deadline time I wouldn't mind keeping him as long as it was on the 4th line for sure. Not for top 9 at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 As long as he is ready for trade deadline time Well, we just put him on IR. This is the Habs we're talking about. So it's safe to assume that Moen will be injured well past the trade deadline, thus depriving us of a pretty decent deadline asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Well, we just put him on IR. This is the Habs we're talking about. So it's safe to assume that Moen will be injured well past the trade deadline, thus depriving us of a pretty decent deadline asset. I think it's just a paper transaction there. They would have put it retroactive to the day after the injury occurred (which was before the ASB, was it not)? He only needs to be on for 7 days but they needed the roster spot with the uncertainty surrounding Blunden and his injury from last night. This should affect his return timeline in any way, he's eligible to be activated at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Well, we just put him on IR. This is the Habs we're talking about. So it's safe to assume that Moen will be injured well past the trade deadline, thus depriving us of a pretty decent deadline asset. I think he is supposed to be back within the week? But, there would be worse things than just resigning Moan,instead of him for a pick/prospect. I feel same about Kostitsyn, if they get good return than trade him today, but if just resign him for a couple years, i would be happy either way. Just as long as UFAs dont walk for dick-all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think he is supposed to be back within the week? But, there would be worse things than just resigning Moan,instead of him for a pick/prospect. I feel same about Kostitsyn, if they get good return than trade him today, but if just resign him for a couple years, i would be happy either way. Just as long as UFAs dont walk for dick-all! Habs fans are all over the board. We are in the best position we have been in years for strengthening this roster. i do sense that there is not confidence that this management team will do whats needed. I don't see any advantage to delaying the process now. Get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Markov not pl;aying for 2 full seasons it looks like........wonder how good he is goign to be. One thing for certian is that if we had a #1 d-man and PP quarterback in our line-up then this season would look different. A broken PP means out of the playoffs. An effective PP means in the playoffs. The injury excuse should be pretty worn out by now. Two prime examples are Pitt(Crosby,Stall,Letang,Neal, Asham) and Philly(Pronger,JVR,Briere,Giroux,Jagr) who've been missing players superior to anyone we have for various and long amounts of time but are still battling for high seeds,and are very hard to play against. While the Habs are the perfect team for the opposition to come back from injuries,because more often than not you'll be going against a very soft and easy to play against team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The injury excuse should be pretty worn out by now. Two prime examples are Pitt(Crosby,Stall,Letang,Neal, Asham) and Philly(Pronger,JVR,Briere,Giroux,Jagr) who've been missing players superior to anyone we have for various and long amounts of time but are still battling for high seeds,and are very hard to play against. While the Habs are the perfect team for the opposition to come back from injuries,because more often than not you'll be going against a very soft and easy to play against team We are not half as soft as the leagues general opinion of us is. AK, Cole, Max, Bourque, Emelin, PK... They can all throw their weight around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Almost all of our wingers are over 6'0 200 lbs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 We are not half as soft as the leagues general opinion of us is. AK, Cole, Max, Bourque, Emelin, PK... They can all throw their weight around. They can,but you think there is one team in the league that fears the Habs physically,or even fears any of those players.Other than Emelin and Cole ,those others are in the "average" category as far as physical play. And I think the leagues opinion of the habs softness is more accurate than us bloggers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 They can,but you think there is one team in the league that fears the Habs physically,or even fears any of those players.Other than Emelin and Cole ,those others are in the "average" category as far as physical play. And I think the leagues opinion of the habs softness is more accurate than us bloggers Do I think we are a "feared" physical team like say Boston? No. Would I want to be? Not really, I prefer teams that are more skill then strength, size is something we have lacked and players like Cole and Max are perfect because they play high caliber hockey. I don't want goons. I don't want defensive liable checking players. As Commandant said we are not that small. its a misconception about Montreal over played by the media. We aren't "big" but we are not "small" anymore. Just as we aren't a feared physical team, but we are not one of the "softest" as you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Our team's 'softeness' is exaggerated, partly because of the 'smurfs' stereotype (note that the idea of the Habs as pansies is a long-standing cliché in the English-Canadian hockey world, going back at least to the 1960s; and it originates an interesting if obscure connection to anti-French bigotry) - but mostly because this team plays soft. That it does, though, has less to do with any particular combination of players than that the team has long since given up on the season. We'll have a better sense of team toughness if we can ice a competitive club next season. At that point the players will actually start battling because they have a real chance. Personally, though, I didn't think the original 'Smurf' team was actually soft at all. Look at their playoff track record. No question, though, that they had trouble carving out space in the slot. But in terms of guts and character, there was nothing wrong with those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwihab Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Seems to me that while we're obviously not as physical as Boston or Philly, we are also not as skilled as say Detroit or Vancouver. (even with Markov back) Equally we are not as fast as Edmonton or the Rangers. We seem to be stuck in the middle and until we get a GM who decides what sort of team we are going to be and works toward that, it is hard to see us breaking out of the middle of the pack. (null) Edited February 6, 2012 by Kiwihab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Do I think we are a "feared" physical team like say Boston? No. Would I want to be? Not really, I prefer teams that are more skill then strength, size is something we have lacked and players like Cole and Max are perfect because they play high caliber hockey. I don't want goons. I don't want defensive liable checking players. As Commandant said we are not that small. its a misconception about Montreal over played by the media. We aren't "big" but we are not "small" anymore. Just as we aren't a feared physical team, but we are not one of the "softest" as you say. We are not small,but very often play small. Who on Boston would you categorize as a "goon". Norris winner Chara (1 fight this year) 30 goal scorer Lucic (2-4 fights) 4th liner Thornton (10 goals last year).There's a difference between rough and tough and goons. Bruins intimidate soft teams. But thye don't do that vs. Pens,Flyers,Rags,Sens and many others. it's kind of a misconception because they are bullies vs. creampuff teams like ours,Fla and Tampa for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 We are not small,but very often play small. Who on Boston would you categorize as a "goon". Norris winner Chara (1 fight this year) 30 goal scorer Lucic (2-4 fights) 4th liner Thornton (10 goals last year).There's a difference between rough and tough and goons. Bruins intimidate soft teams. But thye don't do that vs. Pens,Flyers,Rags,Sens and many others. it's kind of a misconception because they are bullies vs. creampuff teams like ours,Fla and Tampa for example. Thorton has a degree of skill its true, doesn't change the fact that he is going for over 150 pims. Lucic is in the same boat, while he does have skill, he is going for around 150 pims, then there is Marchand who even some Boston fans criticize the way he plays and his recklessness, Chara will always be haunted by the Pacorietty incident as well. Its true Boston isn't a goon squad like they were back in the day, traditional goons have been phased out of hockey almost everywhere. So me using that term is a bit off, but Boston is recklessly physical with their play, cause injuries and a lot of dirty hits from guys. Or just carry on a bit foolish like Ference flipping off the camera after scoring. But I would like to question the strategy as functional. Yes they won the cup. But they wouldn't have if in the final the ref's hadn't forgot about their whistles. Montreal beat Boston the vast majority of the time last year with out skilled game. Tampa almost beat em to. These "cream puff" teams who were "bullied" seem to have performed much better then say Philly who got swept in four games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Seems to me that while we're obviously not as physical as Boston or Philly, we are also not as skilled as say Detroit or Vancouver. (even with Markov back) Equally we are not as fast as Edmonton or the Rangers. We seem to be stuck in the middle and until we get a GM who decides what sort of team we are going to be and works toward that, it is hard to see us breaking out of the middle of the pack. (null) 100%. We HAD an identity. We were a small, feisty team built around strong netminding, collapsing around the slot, a counter-punching attack, and special teams. This was a good formula that would have succeeded again had the players continued to buy in and had we been able to replace Wiz/Markov on the PP. Instead, we fired the coach who insisted on this identity, got rid of one of its defining players in Cammy, and failed to address the PP problem. We are now stuck as an 'in-between' team, bigger but not big enough to scare anyone and skilled but not skilled enough, as you say. It'll take the new GM/coach to figure out what kind of team we are going forward. Note, in this context, that Gill is a HUGE part of our league-leading PK. With his impending departure our dominance in this area is likely to drop off somewhat, and with it the last surviving pillar of JM's mantra about 'special teams' being the key to success. The old formula was foolishly abandoned and is unlikely to be recoverable; so while the core of the team is likely to remain intact over the summer, we will need a completely new vision and game plan by next October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 100%. We HAD an identity. We were a small, feisty team built around strong netminding, collapsing around the slot, a counter-punching attack, and special teams. This was a good formula that would have succeeded again had the players continued to buy in and had we been able to replace Wiz/Markov on the PP. Instead, we fired the coach who insisted on this identity, got rid of one of its defining players in Cammy, and failed to address the PP problem. We are now stuck as an 'in-between' team, bigger but not big enough to scare anyone and skilled but not skilled enough, as you say. It'll take the new GM/coach to figure out what kind of team we are going forward. Note, in this context, that Gill is a HUGE part of our league-leading PK. With his impending departure our dominance in this area is likely to drop off somewhat, and with it the last surviving pillar of JM's mantra about 'special teams' being the key to success. The old formula was foolishly abandoned and is unlikely to be recoverable; so while the core of the team is likely to remain intact over the summer, we will need a completely new vision and game plan by next October. IMO Gill is THE biggest factor in the PK. Much moreso than Moen.And for years he has been the best 5 on 3 pker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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