Injury Injury news

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

But you just did reiterate your ongoing grumbles.

Busted!

[DON]

I'd reiterate my ongoing grumbles about MB's failure to make any apparent effort to sign short-term stopgaps for the top-6 (such as Whitney, Fatendresse, Jagr or even Kostitsyn) - a failure that becomes even more glaring now that our supposed go-to option on the wing is hurt for two months. But what's the use. MB obviously felt comfortable with five top-6 forwards + Bourque. Perhaps this will make him see reason on this question - a shame that the best options, Whitney and Jagr, are now off the table.

I wouldnt touch Whitney nor Jagr, especially at salary they got and age, both are perfect for a contender to maybe put em over the top, but Habs are predicted to miss playoffs, sneek-in maybe, but no one thinks they can contend this year.

So injury actually may work well; to see how Leblanc would work next to Plekanec, or maybe get to see if Gallagher is as good as we all hope he is or possibly ready for prime time (I know he is a RW)?

Maybe even move Eller to 2nd line and Leblanc centre 3rd line?

Who knows, but i am a bit more optimistic and really dont think Bergevin missed the boat by not signing the 3 you mentioned.

[bbp]

Who knows, but i am a bit more optimistic and really dont think Bergevin missed the boat by not signing the 3 you mentioned.

If Bergervin did not go after Lats I believe that would be a mistake, he is young enough and said he regretted his behavior as a hab. I believe he will be a steal for Ottawa, he has performed well when he isn't injured.

Jagr and Whitney... I don't know what to think about it. I would have been really happy to see them here... but I do not overly care that they didn't come. I was more for signing Jagr last season.

[JoeLassister]

Jagr... I would have bought his jersey.

[DON]

If Bergervin did not go after Lats I believe that would be a mistake, he is young enough and said he regretted his behavior as a hab. I believe he will be a steal for Ottawa, he has performed well when he isn't injured.

Jagr and Whitney... I don't know what to think about it. I would have been really happy to see them here... but I do not overly care that they didn't come. I was more for signing Jagr last season.

Kostitsyn might just not be Bergevin's type of player?

I like both Jagr and Whitney, but not for a rebuilding team, last year i was 50-50 on Jagr.

Latendress has only played 20 some games in last 2 years, so can Habs go out on a limb and make room for both Armstrong and he?

Armstrong at least has had a couple/several good years and has more grit.

Sens and Habs could both have a steal at the salary's they are paying?

[dlbalr]

If Bergervin did not go after Lats I believe that would be a mistake, he is young enough and said he regretted his behavior as a hab. I believe he will be a steal for Ottawa, he has performed well when he isn't injured.

From what I've heard, Latendresse had an identical offer from Montreal (or at least very close) and chose to go to Ottawa instead.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There is certainly something to be said for trying out young guys in these vacancies. But they will be unknown commodities playing out of position - not exactly the best recipe for success, nor even, necessarily, for their development.

My point all along has been that it seems like folly to go into a season with only 5 legitimate top-6 forwards; especially when you factor in injuries, you'll actually need more like seven to survive a whole season (which is what we had with Cammy + Kostitsyn). Now, maybe between Armstrong and the young guys, we can do a patchup job on the second line for the entire season. It's possible. But it's not what a good team would do. And I do not understand the argument that we shouldn't have signed Jagr or Whitney 'at that age for that money.' Those guys were signed to short term deals - in Jagr's case, a one-year deal. In what possible way would that have hurt us, beyond possibly requiring that we demote Gomez in order to make cap room?

Of course, all this assumes that the Habs want to ice the most competitive team possible. If the goal is just to experiment with young guys playing out of position and giving them experience even at risk of throwing the season, then obviously my entire argument is irrelevant. Personally I cannot comprehend not doing everything possible - consistent with the goal of rebuilding - to make the playoffs. But that's just me.

[DON]

There is certainly something to be said for trying out young guys in these vacancies. But they will be unknown commodities playing out of position - not exactly the best recipe for success, nor even, necessarily, for their development.

My point all along has been that it seems like folly to go into a season with only 5 legitimate top-6 forwards; especially when you factor in injuries, you'll actually need more like seven to survive a whole season (which is what we had with Cammy + Kostitsyn). Now, maybe between Armstrong and the young guys, we can do a patchup job on the second line for the entire season. It's possible. But it's not what a good team would do. And I do not understand the argument that we shouldn't have signed Jagr or Whitney 'at that age for that money.' Those guys were signed to short term deals - in Jagr's case, a one-year deal. In what possible way would that have hurt us, beyond possibly requiring that we demote Gomez in order to make cap room?

Of course, all this assumes that the Habs want to ice the most competitive team possible. If the goal is just to experiment with young guys playing out of position and giving them experience even at risk of throwing the season, then obviously my entire argument is irrelevant. Personally I cannot comprehend not doing everything possible - consistent with the goal of rebuilding - to make the playoffs. But that's just me.

Well seeing as Bourque has outscored both Cammalleri and Kostitsyn over last 3 years, and you call both those 'top 6', seems odd to dismiss Bourque dosent it?

And i think no one will argue the Habs are deep (why they shouldnt be planning a parade for next spring), but with only $6m in cap space and Subban to sign, it is highly unlikely to find another top six to squeeze under cap, unless trade Kaberle to Detroit or some other such thing and then part with a pick/prospect or 2 and maybe a roster player for a Marleau-type player.

When can go with hand they are dealt now and hope a rookie or 2 can shine and not sell the future to maybe get to 2nd round of playoffs if all the stars align?

The Habs have tried that sneaking into playoffs by patching holes for almost 20 years now, need to instead, maybe; go with youth and build/develop from within and look more long-term, which it seems Bergevin is doing or has planned.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well seeing as Bourque has outscored both Cammalleri and Kostitsyn over last 3 years, and you call both those 'top 6', seems odd to dismiss Bourque dosent it?

And i think no one will argue the Habs are deep (why they shouldnt be planning a parade for next spring), but with only $6m in cap space and Subban to sign, it is highly unlikely to find another top six to squeeze under cap, unless trade Kaberle to Detroit or some other such thing and then part with a pick/prospect or 2 and maybe a roster player for a Marleau-type player.

When can go with hand they are dealt now and hope a rookie or 2 can shine and not sell the future to maybe get to 2nd round of playoffs if all the stars align?

The Habs have tried that sneaking into playoffs by patching holes for almost 20 years now, need to instead, maybe; go with youth and build/develop from within and look more long-term, which it seems Bergevin is doing or has planned.

Like I said, demote Gomez and voila, you have the money.

I've made the argument over and over, so I won't insist, except to say that the whole logic of signing short-term stopgaps is precisely that we don't want to hamper our future growth. It also helps young players to be part of a successful team. But hey, if Eller or Leblanc (or Galy) are ready for second-line duty, then so much the better. Neither has shown any sort of consistent NHL-level offensive presence so far, but maybe all they need is the opportunity.

(Personally, I prefer to have young players force their way into a spot - c.f. Desharnais - than have it handed to them unearned, but there is no single path to player development that applies in all cases).

[dlbalr]

Like I said, demote Gomez and voila, you have the money.

But do you? If the league gets their way and the cap drops to, let's say, $60 million (their last proposal was $58M) this year, the Habs will be demoting/amnestying Gomez and quite possibly another player just to get into compliance, let alone having room to add further to the roster. (This of course assumes there are no direct rollbacks or any other fundamental changes that we haven't pondered yet.)

[DON]

Like I said, demote Gomez and voila, you have the money.

I've made the argument over and over, so I won't insist, except to say that the whole logic of signing short-term stopgaps is precisely that we don't want to hamper our future growth. It also helps young players to be part of a successful team. But hey, if Eller or Leblanc (or Galy) are ready for second-line duty, then so much the better. Neither has shown any sort of consistent NHL-level offensive presence so far, but maybe all they need is the opportunity.

(Personally, I prefer to have young players force their way into a spot - c.f. Desharnais - than have it handed to them unearned, but there is no single path to player development that applies in all cases).

I almost forget about Gomer? Is it that easy, if waive and demote and he is off the cap? Cant be that easy is it?

You could be 100% correct and maybe Eller has had zero PP time because he hasnt fought for it? And a Palushaj is stuck as a grinder even if he not fit for that role at all and Eller never had 2 offensive wingers to play with.

But i realy think Eller and Leblanc rehabbin last summer/fall set them back and both (as will Markov/Gorges) will have a much better year, by having almost 6 months to train.

I think all the injuries to the lineup maybe played a big part in all the 3rd period collapses, few comebacks and shootout failures, cause once injured, a player can never quite get back to 100% (maybe 90-95%) and might do fine in first 2 periods but always fade a bit in 3rd? Same as Bourque is hooped, basically for year and will never quite get back the lost conditioning due to seaon schedule.

I also like to blame Martin for being stubborn and even if aint working he still stuck with same PP group, or kept giving Gomez 20 minutes/game for a year and 1/2, even if he easily earned a press box seat.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Signing Jagr, as much as I wanted to see him in a Habs sweater, would mean the team would have four natural right wingers vying for two spots. No thank you.

I would have signed Whitney but I heard nothing on his interest in Montreal. Looking at his career history with only one year in a demanding market (Detroit) and maybe Edmonton if you count them in some of their worst years to have still been a hot bed market, I doubt Montreal was on his list but hey that's just personal speculation.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The following points are definitely good, serious ones worth considering:

-Eller and Leblanc rehabbed last summer and may have more to give. Throw Palushaj and Galy into the equation and there is a passable case to be made that it's time to give the young guys more room to succeed or fail out there. My only point is that not one of these guys has yet made a convincing case for themselves as top-sixers; contrast that with 'real deal' talents like DD and MaxPac who simply forced the team to give them top-line minutes. However, sometimes a player will only blossom if put in that situation. Hell, that's what happened with Latendresse in Minny.

-if the cap drops without a commensurate salary roll-back, then we certainly don't want to be locked into more dubious contracts. I can't believe there wouldn't be some sort of rollback, though.

-Jagr would have given us too many RW. Then again, why are we happily contemplating playing Leblanc and Eller out of position, if playing guys out of position is intrinsically bad?

I think in the end it comes down to your attitude toward the season. I for one was unwilling to accept another dismal showing. But given the way the team is structured right now, I think a bottom-10 finish is likely. Maybe the answer is indeed just to relax and see it as a 'growing pains' year. But ya know, guys like Cole and Markov aren't getting any younger...wasting whole seasons can become a cycle onto itself, as player X matures but player Y declines, and then you need to replace player Y, etc., etc., etc..

[DON]

The following points are definitely good, serious ones worth considering:

-Eller and Leblanc rehabbed last summer and may have more to give. Throw Palushaj and Galy into the equation and there is a passable case to be made that it's time to give the young guys more room to succeed or fail out there. My only point is that not one of these guys has yet made a convincing case for themselves as top-sixers; contrast that with 'real deal' talents like DD and MaxPac who simply forced the team to give them top-line minutes. However, sometimes a player will only blossom if put in that situation. Hell, that's what happened with Latendresse in Minny.

-if the cap drops without a commensurate salary roll-back, then we certainly don't want to be locked into more dubious contracts. I can't believe there wouldn't be some sort of rollback, though.

-Jagr would have given us too many RW. Then again, why are we happily contemplating playing Leblanc and Eller out of position, if playing guys out of position is intrinsically bad?

I think in the end it comes down to your attitude toward the season. I for one was unwilling to accept another dismal showing. But given the way the team is structured right now, I think a bottom-10 finish is likely. Maybe the answer is indeed just to relax and see it as a 'growing pains' year. But ya know, guys like Cole and Markov aren't getting any younger...wasting whole seasons can become a cycle onto itself, as player X matures but player Y declines, and then you need to replace player Y, etc., etc., etc..

Your unwillingness to accept another dismal showing is how most Hab fans feel i think and also seems to pressure mgmt into holding on to UFAs at deadline and dealing picks for Sopels-Mara's to make playoffs year after year, instead of biting the bullet, trading for future and hoping call ups can instead help get you into playoffs.

If you keep doing the same thing every year with little success (19 years now), sooner or later need to change tact and suck it up for a year or 2 (especially with the group of talented prospects who are just a year or 2 away).

But i think it would be a bit of bad and good if well out of playoffs;

They may deal a Markov to Detroit, Kaberle to team X and Bourque to team Y for a crapload of future goods, which might be painful in missing playoffs 2 years in a row, but another draft like Timmins just had could set the team up for the next decade?

Rebuilding normally takes more than 1 bad year i think?

But; even though Habs finished 28th last year, they were only 11th in goals against and 19th in goals for, and only 20 some goals fewer than the Rangers. So just by adding in Markov and Gionta and having Yemelin/Subban and Diaz all likely being much more comfortable/confident, i doubt they will never be that far from a playoff position.

Unless worst case scenario and Subban or Price goes down with significant injury, which would almost certainly mean a high draft pick.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Your unwillingness to accept another dismal showing is how most Hab fans feel i think and also seems to pressure mgmt into holding on to UFAs at deadline and dealing picks for Sopels-Mara's to make playoffs year after year, instead of biting the bullet, trading for future and hoping call ups can instead help get you into playoffs.

If you keep doing the same thing every year with little success (19 years now), sooner or later need to change tact and suck it up for a year or 2 (especially with the group of talented prospects who are just a year or 2 away).

But i think it would be a bit of bad and good if well out of playoffs;

They may deal a Markov to Detroit, Kaberle to team X and Bourque to team Y for a crapload of future goods, which might be painful in missing playoffs 2 years in a row, but another draft like Timmins just had could set the team up for the next decade?

Rebuilding normally takes more than 1 bad year i think?

But; even though Habs finished 28th last year, they were only 11th in goals against and 19th in goals for, and only 20 some goals fewer than the Rangers. So just by adding in Markov and Gionta and having Yemelin/Subban and Diaz all likely being much more comfortable/confident, i doubt they will never be that far from a playoff position.

Unless worst case scenario and Subban or Price goes down with significant injury, which would almost certainly mean a high draft pick.

I like your willingness to absorb short-term pain. And certainly I would never argue for trading picks for deadline help with the current team.

One thing I would say is that the Habs clearly did try a bona-fide rebuild under Gainey. The 'Higgins' years were just that, an attempt to build a contender from the ground up, with picks. It just didn't work due to terrible player development. But I don't think it's accurate to say that we have not actually tried a rebuild in the traditional sense of that term; it's just we rebuilt without deliberately 'tanking,' which is a different matter, and not a problem to my mind, given that 'tanking' is no guarantee of ever winning.

What I was expecting this year was a continued emphasis on the development of young players. I didn't, however, see that as incompatible with being a good team. MaxPac, Desharnais, Price and Subban are already high-impact NHLers despite being quite young. Add that to quality vets like Cole and Pleks and we're only a player or two shy of being playoff worthy. Hence my puzzlement that we did not even try to add this player or two on a short-term basis.

Anyway, I'm past being frustrated or angry about it. It is what it is, as noted sage Todd Bertuzzi once said. I'm leery of it, that's all.

[DON]

Like i said, i think team as is, should sneek into playoffs. But, on paper, they should be battling for 7th to 9th place if Gionta-Markov can even improve offense/PP just a bit.

And as some suspect, maybe Bergevin is waiting for smoke of CBA clears and has a deal for one of Kane's, Sharp or the like in his back pocket, once he sees how this version of Habs starts the season, and your worries may be for not?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

What I was expecting this year was a continued emphasis on the development of young players. I didn't, however, see that as incompatible with being a good team.

This really conflicts with your continuous complaints about the hole in the top six left wing and trying to fill it with 40 year olds

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This really conflicts with your continuous complaints about the hole in the top six left wing and trying to fill it with 40 year olds

Well, no. Only if you think Leblanc/Eller are poised to produce as 2nd-line players would this be so. I've seen nothing to indicate that myself.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Well, no. Only if you think Leblanc/Eller are poised to produce as 2nd-line players would this be so. I've seen nothing to indicate that myself.

But Leblanc is what, a 30 game NHL veteran? Eller has one and a half years of NHL experience? Maybe two?

[RedSoloCup]

Leblanc has scored at every level, yeah he only had 10 pts in his rookie year but that was only in half a season in a limited role

Seguin only had 22 as a rookie over the full year

I think Louis is either the answer at left or 3rd line centre this year or he's better off in the minors like Pacs did cause he's top 6 potential

[dlbalr]

Doesn't sound too major but Michael Blunden was cut over his right eye today at an informal skate and received an undisclosed number of stitches.

[JMMR]

Doesn't sound too major but Michael Blunden was cut over his right eye today at an informal skate and received an undisclosed number of stitches.

Undisclosed... was Gauthier his doctor?

[dlbalr]

It appears that there are a few Habs nursing injuries at the moment. As part of the 'lockout rules,' players injured before the lockout not only get paid but also have full access to the facilities that otherwise would be restricted. Today, Rene Bourque (as we all knew) as well as Petteri Nokelainen and Erik Cole were all rehabbing at Brossard today. I have no idea what's ailing Nokelainen/Cole.

[bbp]

It appears that there are a few Habs nursing injuries at the moment. As part of the 'lockout rules,' players injured before the lockout not only get paid but also have full access to the facilities that otherwise would be restricted. Today, Rene Bourque (as we all knew) as well as Petteri Nokelainen and Erik Cole were all rehabbing at Brossard today. I have no idea what's ailing Nokelainen/Cole.

https://twitter.com/...816552987111424

Well I thats always good I guess haha

[JMMR]

It appears that there are a few Habs nursing injuries at the moment. As part of the 'lockout rules,' players injured before the lockout not only get paid but also have full access to the facilities that otherwise would be restricted. Today, Rene Bourque (as we all knew) as well as Petteri Nokelainen and Erik Cole were all rehabbing at Brossard today. I have no idea what's ailing Nokelainen/Cole.

https://twitter.com/...816552987111424

LWS

Light wallet syndrome