GDT Leafs vs Habs, Oct. 22, 7 PM

[Commandant]

Cole has scored 184 goals in this league... 43 of them were scored on the PP.

While he isn't a huge PP goal scorer, his role has changed to "front of the net guy". How many goals were scored with him screening, not getting a point at all?

There are numbers out there for team goals when he is on the ice. Cole's numbers compared to our other forwards show no improvement.

Cole has not been a good power play player since the 2007-08 season.

Again, Darche isn't the answer, but AK46 and Pacioretty are both far better options than Cole.

Darche is a good "front of the net guy", but playing him exclusively in that role when we AK and Cole is dumb, imo. I think JM doesn't like Cole, or is not happy with him. Perhaps he thinks the system is stupid (I agree with him), or maybe they just clash, but JM seems determined to limit Cole's contribution.

As others have said, if not for injuries, PK would have sat on the bench most of last season.

I don't buy that on PK, lets remember that Guy Boucher also benched PK in Hamilton and the kid came back stronger. His first year in Belleville he was also benched. A coach can bench a rookie, sometimes a kid needs it. Doesn't mean he'll never play again.

[hab29RETIRED]

IMO, he is not tradable. Makes too much money in Mtl.

Yep. When we signed him, I said 4 years was too long of a deal, especially since we were already paying him at least $500k more then he was worth. Gainey already made the same mistake with Spacek, his protege the goat followed it up by giving Cole more money AND a longer contract then he is worth.

Cole CAN be a solid 25 goal scorer with the habs with the right situation, but I would have been MUCH happier if the habs had spent $4M/year on a 5 year deal for AK46.

[hab29RETIRED]

We are 4 points out of a playoff spot. If we fall to 6 points back, the situation becomes next to terminal in my opinion. Yes, it's 'early,' yes, Markov is (supposedly) coming back soon. But we will spend the next 75 games without a buffer. One more significant injury or significant stretch of bad luck and it's goodnight Irene. We are turning out to be this season's New Jersey Devils: a team that nobody expected to flame out, that nevertheless does.

Martin is in trouble. His remark about Cole's PP numbers in Carolina, coupled with Cole's remark that Martin has never spoken to him, are damning, suggesting a coach who is testy, over-thinking the obvious (and it *is* obvious we should have handed Cole a top-6 role and let him play his way out of it, if that was what's going to happen, rather than treat him like a rookie who has to 'prove' his worth), and who is defensive about his authority. None of this matters if the team plays well, but with the season on the brink, one does not get the sense right now that JM is in a position to rally the troops.

IF we lose in Florida, one of two things needs to happen. One, Gauthier needs to get a second-tier offensive defenceman in here who can help the power play. I don't care how he does it, as long as it doesn't involve Subban or MaxPac or a high pick. Or, JM needs to get the axe. But the replacement is a tough call. It would not astound me to see Mr. Fix-It Gainey stepping in on an interim basis.

Should we fire JM, the assumption has to be that a new coach can generate enough energy to keep the team viable until Markov and Campoli come back. Otherwise, the basic problem of an impotent PP will remain in the new coach's hands. So I'd really prefer to see SOMETHING done to get a guy in to help the PP, rather than fire Martin. But I have a feeling that decapitating a coach is an easier option than swinging a trade...especially if Gainey is willing to step in.

A win in Florida would keep us hanging in and defer the moment of decision for another game.

I have been saying, since JM came on he is the wrong man for the job. His handling of SK74, O'Byrne, treatment of AK46, Cole, idiotic use of Darche, Moen, love for Pyatt and free passes to Gomez, spacek and Hamrlik show how stupid of a coach he is, as well as terrible in DEVELOPING players. Subban and Macpac developed IN SPITE of Martin. Subban would not have got a chance to demonstrate the player he CAN be, if Spacek and Gorges didn't get hurt. MaxPac pretty much said as much last year, before being recalled.

Even thought the habs went to the final 4, I said that offseason we should fire JM and hire Boucher and everyone here said I was nuts.

I'm actually hoping we lose against the panthers - and I'm about as die hard of a habs fan as you can get. We need to make a move NOW. If that means losing to the lowly panthers, so be it. I don't want the habs to make a move too late like the devils did last year.

As for Gainey, he is done. He had is chance. Loved him as a player hated him as a GM. The fact that he even considered offering Kovolev a deal and went to Gionta as a backup plan, shows he is not the guy to lead the team - even in an interim role. The Gomez trade was utter stupidity - Sather should have been offering the habs his #1, #2 and #3 picks to take Gomez off his hands, instead we gave him Higgins and one of our best defensive prospects.

Hiring JM was desperation. people keep on harping going to the final four. I say we went to the final four in spite of the penguin, not because of him.

[Commandant]

the Tanguay experiment failed miserably and markov was back to were he's best!!! picking players out with super accurate passes to the point man/ cross ice to the circle (ala kovy) and then down the boards to set up the cross crease pass....

The difference between this and the Tanguay experiment is that we are not changing Markov's role. With Tanguay... we asked markov to be the shooter and Tanguay to be the QB. In this scenario we are simply moving where Markov lines up... not changing his role.

Remember too that even with Tanguay out, our PP didn't start working that season until Schneider was acquired to shoot the puck. Markov needs someone with a bomb of a shot beside him, and I know Subban and Weber have that... I like Emelin's passing, but I'm not sure he has the bomb that we need.

I'd at least give it a shot.

if it ain't broke don't fix it! let markov qb the first wave and maybe the habs should think of keeping subban on the right to QB the 2nd unit with weber's one timer on the left like he did so successfully in Belleville and amazingly with my Bulldogs!!!

i just want our Beloved Habs to win and shake this funk there in!!

Markov has played on the right before as well. Thats where he typically plays on the PP when playing for Russia.

obviously Markov wont be back until Thurs Nov 17 against the islanders so we could be out of contention by then if we don't get a minimum 6 of 8 points this week, so this could all be for nothing!!!

We are 4 points out of a playoff spot. If we fall to 6 points back, the situation becomes next to terminal in my opinion. Yes, it's 'early,' yes, Markov is (supposedly) coming back soon. But we will spend the next 75 games without a buffer. One more significant injury or significant stretch of bad luck and it's goodnight Irene. We are turning out to be this season's New Jersey Devils: a team that nobody expected to flame out, that nevertheless does.

We can't wait as long as Jersey did to pick up their game. The fired McLean in December and didn't pick up their game til January. By then it was too late.

We are still in October. At this point, we could still be last year's Buffalo Sabres, a team that had a really rough October and took a long time to win their first game at home, but still managed to make the playoffs.

Martin is in trouble. His remark about Cole's PP numbers in Carolina, coupled with Cole's remark that Martin has never spoken to him, are damning, suggesting a coach who is testy, over-thinking the obvious (and it *is* obvious we should have handed Cole a top-6 role and let him play his way out of it, if that was what's going to happen, rather than treat him like a rookie who has to 'prove' his worth), and who is defensive about his authority. None of this matters if the team plays well, but with the season on the brink, one does not get the sense right now that JM is in a position to rally the troops.

IF we lose in Florida, one of two things needs to happen. One, Gauthier needs to get a second-tier offensive defenceman in here who can help the power play. I don't care how he does it, as long as it doesn't involve Subban or MaxPac or a high pick. Or, JM needs to get the axe. But the replacement is a tough call. It would not astound me to see Mr. Fix-It Gainey stepping in on an interim basis.

Agreed that this can't go on much longer.

Should we fire JM, the assumption has to be that a new coach can generate enough energy to keep the team viable until Markov and Campoli come back. Otherwise, the basic problem of an impotent PP will remain in the new coach's hands. So I'd really prefer to see SOMETHING done to get a guy in to help the PP, rather than fire Martin. But I have a feeling that decapitating a coach is an easier option than swinging a trade...especially if Gainey is willing to step in.

A win in Florida would keep us hanging in and defer the moment of decision for another game.

It almost has to be Gainey. What other options are there? Marc Crawford, no thanks.

Like it or not but this team is handicapped as long as we stick to the french rule, and the Molsons have said they will stick to it.

Yep. When we signed him, I said 4 years was too long of a deal, especially since we were already paying him at least $500k more then he was worth. Gainey already made the same mistake with Spacek, his protege the goat followed it up by giving Cole more money AND a longer contract then he is worth.

Cole CAN be a solid 25 goal scorer with the habs with the right situation, but I would have been MUCH happier if the habs had spent $4M/year on a 5 year deal for AK46.

Carolina offered him the same money, but would only go three years. Cole signed here because of the fourth year, he's said as much in interviews.

I still think he can be a good player for us. I'm not writing him off yet.

He needs more ES time though.

[hab29RETIRED]

There are numbers out there for team goals when he is on the ice. Cole's numbers compared to our other forwards show no improvement.

Cole has not been a good power play player since the 2007-08 season.

Again, Darche isn't the answer, but AK46 and Pacioretty are both far better options than Cole.

I don't buy that on PK, lets remember that Guy Boucher also benched PK in Hamilton and the kid came back stronger. His first year in Belleville he was also benched. A coach can bench a rookie, sometimes a kid needs it. Doesn't mean he'll never play again.

There is a big difference in benching a guy, or sitting a guy for a while and the way that Martin was handling him. Subban did not improve until Martin had no choice to use him. when he could play without fear of being benched for every mistake.

You have to EXPECT a 21/22 year old to make mistakes and learn from them. At that age, you don't let a guy rot on the bench or the pressbox. either you send them down or play with the guy and teach him - which of course is a problem with the penguin, he seems to talk more to his players through the media (i.e. shot at AK46 last year and Cole this year), or for effect (ie. singling out SK74 as his whipping boy in training camp two years ago).

Another bonehead move by Gainey was ignoring and brushing off Robinson, when the big bird asked for an assistant coaching job. JM and Pearn are so much better then a habs legend who has a proven track record as an NHL all-star, norris winner, cup champion, Conn Smythe winner, Cup winning coach and developer of young defencemen.

[Commandant]

I have been saying, since JM came on he is the wrong man for the job. His handling of SK74, O'Byrne, treatment of AK46, Cole, idiotic use of Darche, Moen, love for Pyatt and free passes to Gomez, spacek and Hamrlik show how stupid of a coach he is, as well as terrible in DEVELOPING players. Subban and Macpac developed IN SPITE of Martin. Subban would not have got a chance to demonstrate the player he CAN be, if Spacek and Gorges didn't get hurt. MaxPac pretty much said as much last year, before being recalled.

Even thought the habs went to the final 4, I said that offseason we should fire JM and hire Boucher and everyone here said I was nuts.

I'm actually hoping we lose against the panthers - and I'm about as die hard of a habs fan as you can get. We need to make a move NOW. If that means losing to the lowly panthers, so be it. I don't want the habs to make a move too late like the devils did last year.

As for Gainey, he is done. He had is chance. Loved him as a player hated him as a GM. The fact that he even considered offering Kovolev a deal and went to Gionta as a backup plan, shows he is not the guy to lead the team - even in an interim role. The Gomez trade was utter stupidity - Sather should have been offering the habs his #1, #2 and #3 picks to take Gomez off his hands, instead we gave him Higgins and one of our best defensive prospects.

Hiring JM was desperation. people keep on harping going to the final four. I say we went to the final four in spite of the penguin, not because of him.

So basically everything that has gone right during JM's tenure was in spite of him, and everything that has gone wrong is because of him.

Analysis doesn't get much more biased than that.

[hab29RETIRED]

The difference between this and the Tanguay experiment is that we are not changing Markov's role. With Tanguay... we asked markov to be the shooter and Tanguay to be the QB. In this scenario we are simply moving where Markov lines up... not changing his role.

Remember too that even with Tanguay out, our PP didn't start working that season until Schneider was acquired to shoot the puck. Markov needs someone with a bomb of a shot beside him, and I know Subban and Weber have that... I like Emelin's passing, but I'm not sure he has the bomb that we need.

I'd at least give it a shot.

[/b]

Markov has played on the right before as well. Thats where he typically plays on the PP when playing for Russia.

We can't wait as long as Jersey did to pick up their game. The fired McLean in December and didn't pick up their game til January. By then it was too late.

We are still in October. At this point, we could still be last year's Buffalo Sabres, a team that had a really rough October and took a long time to win their first game at home, but still managed to make the playoffs.

Agreed that this can't go on much longer.

It almost has to be Gainey. What other options are there? Marc Crawford, no thanks.

Like it or not but this team is handicapped as long as we stick to the french rule, and the Molsons have said they will stick to it.

Carolina offered him the same money, but would only go three years. Cole signed here because of the fourth year, he's said as much in interviews.

I still think he can be a good player for us. I'm not writing him off yet.

He needs more ES time though.

From what I read at the time, the habs offered 4.5M, Carolina offered $4M and then the habs also sweetened the offer by adding an extra year, which was the clincher for Cole.

So basically everything that has gone right during JM's tenure was in spite of him, and everything that has gone wrong is because of him.

Analysis doesn't get much more biased than that.

How much of Colorado's cup win can be attributed to Hartley. I think the Avalanche won in spite of Hatley, then him leading them to the finals. I have the same opinion of the penguin.

[Commandant]

There is a big difference in benching a guy, or sitting a guy for a while and the way that Martin was handling him. Subban did not improve until Martin had no choice to use him. when he could play without fear of being benched for every mistake.

You have to EXPECT a 21/22 year old to make mistakes and learn from them. At that age, you don't let a guy rot on the bench or the pressbox. either you send them down or play with the guy and teach him - which of course is a problem with the penguin, he seems to talk more to his players through the media (i.e. shot at AK46 last year and Cole this year), or for effect (ie. singling out SK74 as his whipping boy in training camp two years ago).

For Subban and MaxPac, sometimes tough love works.

MaxPac was becoming a defensive forward in Montreal, he was not developping any offence whatsoever... going back to Hamilton to learn how to use his body to be a goal scorer was the best thing that happened to him.

For a young defencemen, sometimes sitting in the PB for a game or two is beneficial. It gives a new perspective to get a birds eye view of what is going on out there, and why you are making the same mistake over and over again, as PK was doing in December last year.

Both players have come back better from these experiences... I have a hard time saying JM failed to develop them when the strategy worked, even if the player may not have agreed with it at the time.

SK built his own bed in Montreal by acting like a child. Missing practices, missing buses, not reporting to Montreal etc....

Another bonehead move by Gainey was ignoring and brushing off Robinson, when the big bird asked for an assistant coaching job. JM and Pearn are so much better then a habs legend who has a proven track record as an NHL all-star, norris winner, cup champion, Conn Smythe winner, Cup winning coach and developer of young defencemen.

I think you have your story wrong. Gainey asked Robinson to take the job and Robinson said he was done with coaching.

[hab29RETIRED]

For Subban and MaxPac, sometimes tough love works.

MaxPac was becoming a defensive forward in Montreal, he was not developping any offence whatsoever... going back to Hamilton to learn how to use his body to be a goal scorer was the best thing that happened to him.

For a young defencemen, sometimes sitting in the PB for a game or two is beneficial. It gives a new perspective to get a birds eye view of what is going on out there, and why you are making the same mistake over and over again, as PK was doing in December last year.

Both players have come back better from these experiences... I have a hard time saying JM failed to develop them when the strategy worked, even if the player may not have agreed with it at the time.

SK built his own bed in Montreal by acting like a child. Missing practices, missing buses, not reporting to Montreal etc....

I think you have your story wrong. Gainey asked Robinson to take the job and Robinson said he was done with coaching.

What you are saying is contrary to the story reported by Stubbs. Stubbs quoted Robinson saying that he called Gainey and asked for an assistant coach role - not interested in being a head coach and gainey said that he would talk in the off season and never returned his call. Robinson called again, got no response and the finally went to NJ as an assistant coach when he got nothing but silence from the habs.

Robinson is still coaching.

St Louis also had issues with their young players. They didn't trade them for UFA's, they suspended and disciplined them. In SK74's case, his missing practices occured AFTER JM singled him out in camp after SK74 came back from an injury in camp.

[illWill]

It is clearly evident that this team is not on the same page. Whether it has to do with new players, lack of preseason games together, constant line shuffling or leadership remains to be seen. I am surprised how the players are saying they are playing well and that if they keep it up, then they will get wins. I couldn't disagree more. They look sloppy beyond belief, can't make passes, have trouble getting out of their zone and can't gain the blueline....even on a 5 on 3. It is very frustrating to watch so many skilled players chip it up the ice or make a crappy dump in. For one of the fastest teams in the league, it sure is going to waste. I despise the forecheck...or lack there of. I've been watching alot of other teams so far this year and it's amazing what can happen when you put pressure on the defense in their own zone.

It just seems like they are playing too tentative and cautious. They are so worried about getting out of position that it takes away from any offense that could be produced. They are always looking for the perfect play instead of just playing hockey. I think that if they relied more on their natural instincts, they would be much more successful. On paper, this team looks like it is stacked (when healthy) but yet here we are in last place. There isn't much that can be done to fix it. There won't be any big trades. You can fire the coach and hope a new voice and direction will help. I've never been a fan of Martin, as he implements a system that doesn't reflect that of the players he has. It would be fine if he had a team like the Predators but not this one. A couple more weeks of losing and expect the axe to fall.

[Commandant]

What you are saying is contrary to the story reported by Stubbs. Stubbs quoted Robinson saying that he called Gainey and asked for an assistant coach role - not interested in being a head coach and gainey said that he would talk in the off season and never returned his call. Robinson called again, got no response and the finally went to NJ as an assistant coach when he got nothing but silence from the habs.

Robinson is still coaching.

St Louis also had issues with their young players. They didn't trade them for UFA's, they suspended and disciplined them. In SK74's case, his missing practices occured AFTER JM singled him out in camp after SK74 came back from an injury in camp.

SK was disciplined multiple times, and given more than a few chances to clean up his act. He also had problems and was sent to the minors under Carbo/Gainey in 2009. It wasn't just a problem with JM. The kid needed maturity and he wasn't growing up in Montreal despite numerous efforts.

[hab29RETIRED]

SK was disciplined multiple times, and given more than a few chances to clean up his act. He also had problems and was sent to the minors under Carbo/Gainey in 2009. It wasn't just a problem with JM. The kid needed maturity and he wasn't growing up in Montreal despite numerous efforts.

The issue is how the habs handle their kids. How many talented young players have we given up on and handled badly - Ribeiro, Lats, Grabs, SK74, Pouliot. While there are issues with the players, don't you think how we handle young players have a hand in them not succeeding in Montreal? Only one player on our team had more points then SK74 last year and the return for him was a joke. The return for Ribiero was a joke, Lats was move for Pouliot and we got nothing for Pouliot. The return for Sk74 were two UFA's. UFA's that we could have signed in two days, one of which who didn't sign with us anyways. That is just plain idiotic asset management.

The habs addition by subtraction policy isn't very smart and is lousy asset management.

[Commandant]

Part of the problem is Montreal itself. When you have a young player with entitlement issues, which all of those guys are.... they can't grow up in Montreal. Every time they leave the house, the fans are praising them.... being in Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, etc... is a real wake up call to reality that you can't get in Montreal.

They should have gotten more in some of the trades, i agree with that... but I strongly believe those players would never be the guys they are today if they stayed here.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree that 'addition by subtraction' is bad math and that we have wasted too many good players over the past decade. Only in the case of Ribeiro has this really been catastrophic, however; for the most part we have replaced that lost talent from within. Nonetheless, too many fans make excuses for the tem throwing away Latendresse, Ribeiro, Grabovski, Sergei, etc., etc.. That being said, this is not the reason we are now sucking ass.

That JM can't develop young players is simply disproven by the facts. He has a track record of developing excellent NHLers, and a number of players - including Redden and Bouwemeester - had by far their best years under him.

I don't subscribe to these religious anti-Martin arguments whereby everything bad that happens is his fault and everything good that happens is somehow 'in spite of' him. I go by what counts: results. For two years, Martin has gotten good results from the talent to hand. This season, he isn't.

Now it's hardly all his fault - our basic problem is the dormant power play and that is a direct result of the absence of Wiz and Markov. But the fact is that when a team is careening into destruction, you either change the players or you change the coach. Unless Gauthier can bring us a decent offensive defenceman, one or two more losses and Martin has to go.

[hab29RETIRED]

Part of the problem is Montreal itself. When you have a young player with entitlement issues, which all of those guys are.... they can't grow up in Montreal. Every time they leave the house, the fans are praising them.... being in Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, etc... is a real wake up call to reality that you can't get in Montreal.

They should have gotten more in some of the trades, i agree with that... but I strongly believe those players would never be the guys they are today if they stayed here.

That's part of the issue, but the bigger issue is that Habs management have pushed to many young players in before they are read, don't make them pay their dues, which is what really leads to the entitlement issues.

Ribeiro, Lats, SK74, MaxPac should never have been brought in at their age. WHen they traded for Pouliot, he should have been down in the minors longer, but that would have made mgmt look bad for trading lats. The entitlement comes from management rushing players in before they are ready or shown that the work ethic and hunger to deserve their chance.

Now we have a young Dman like Weber who either needs to be played as a Dman and you live with his mistakes, or you send him down to Hamilton. Instead the penguin has been using him as a forward.

[hab29RETIRED]

I agree that 'addition by subtraction' is bad math and that we have wasted too many good players over the past decade. Only in the case of Ribeiro has this really been catastrophic, however; for the most part we have replaced that lost talent from within. Nonetheless, too many fans make excuses for the tem throwing away Latendresse, Ribeiro, Grabovski, Sergei, etc., etc.. That being said, this is not the reason we are now sucking ass.

That JM can't develop young players is simply disproven by the facts. He has a track record of developing excellent NHLers, and a number of players - including Redden and Bouwemeester - had by far their best years under him.

I don't subscribe to these religious anti-Martin arguments whereby everything bad that happens is his fault and everything good that happens is somehow 'in spite of' him. I go by what counts: results. For two years, Martin has gotten good results from the talent to hand. This season, he isn't.

Now it's hardly all his fault - our basic problem is the dormant power play and that is a direct result of the absence of Wiz and Markov. But the fact is that when a team is careening into destruction, you either change the players or you change the coach. Unless Gauthier can bring us a decent offensive defenceman, one or two more losses and Martin has to go.

Bouwmeester wanted nothing to do with Martin. may have had a good year with him, but didn't like playing for him. That's like saying that MaxPac did not discover his game in Hamiltion last year, but it was JM that was the reason that MaxPac started becoming an offensive force.

MaxPac, SK74, Lats, Pouliot, Ak46 all have complained about JM's communcation skills as a coach and how they have been used by JM. Subban would never have progressed if it wasn't becuase of injuires. Weber who is now playing over 20 minutes would still be a forward if it wasn't for injuries. O'byrne is playing over 20 minutes for the avalanche but wasn't good enough to be a 7th dman for the penguin.

Eller is only getting a chance to finally play centre because of injuries to one of JM's free-pass boys Gomez.

There is a pattern here, young players has success (eller, MaxPac, Subban, Weber), and its only when JM is forced to use them, rather then chooses them over his non-performing veterns.

[Commandant]

That's part of the issue, but the bigger issue is that Habs management have pushed to many young players in before they are read, don't make them pay their dues, which is what really leads to the entitlement issues.

Ribeiro, Lats, SK74, MaxPac should never have been brought in at their age. WHen they traded for Pouliot, he should have been down in the minors longer, but that would have made mgmt look bad for trading lats. The entitlement comes from management rushing players in before they are ready or shown that the work ethic and hunger to deserve their chance.

Now we have a young Dman like Weber who either needs to be played as a Dman and you live with his mistakes, or you send him down to Hamilton. Instead the penguin has been using him as a forward.

Weber now, and Pouliot back then, could not be sent to Hamilton. They both would have had to be placed on waivers, and some bottom feeder who has room on their roster would have snatched them up as they have the roster space to develop their talent.

Just like how Ron Hainsey and Francois Beauchemin were lost.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Bouwmeester wanted nothing to do with Martin. may have had a good year with him, but didn't like playing for him. That's like saying that MaxPac did not discover his game in Hamiltion last year, but it was JM that was the reason that MaxPac started becoming an offensive force.

MaxPac, SK74, Lats, Pouliot, Ak46 all have complained about JM's communcation skills as a coach and how they have been used by JM. Subban would never have progressed if it wasn't becuase of injuires. Weber who is now playing over 20 minutes would still be a forward if it wasn't for injuries. O'byrne is playing over 20 minutes for the avalanche but wasn't good enough to be a 7th dman for the penguin.

I don't care if a player 'likes' a coach. I care about how he performs under that coach. Bouwmeester had his best years under Martin. Fact. So did Redden. fact. Martin developed Alfreddson, Havlat, Hossa, Philips, and a bunch of others. Fact.

O'Byrne - oh please.

Again, I agree that JM may have to go. The difference is that I make the case based on results, not some a priori antipathy for the guy because he's boring and looks like The Penguin.

[hab29RETIRED]

Weber now, and Pouliot back then, could not be sent to Hamilton. They both would have had to be placed on waivers, and some bottom feeder who has room on their roster would have snatched them up as they have the roster space to develop their talent.

Just like how Ron Hainsey and Francois Beauchemin were lost.

From what I understood, when the habs acquired Pouliot, he still had eligibility to be in Hamilton. Weber could have stayed in Hamilton last year, rather then be used as a forward.

[Commandant]

I don't care if a player 'likes' a coach. I care about how he performs under that coach. Bouwmeester had his best years under Martin. Fact. So did Redden. fact. Martin developed Alfreddson, Havlat, Hossa, Philips, and a bunch of others. Fact.

O'Byrne - oh please.

Again, I agree that JM may have to go. The difference is that I make the case based on results, not some a priori antipathy for the guy because he's boring and looks like The Penguin.

Agreed 100%.

Furthermore even though it was Cunneyworth coaching in Hamilton... JM has to get some credit for recognizing that Max needed time in the AHL to improve. Thats another area where he's gotten results.

I'm also seeing great strides in Eller's game under this coaching staff.

This is also a coaching staff that rescued Carey Price.

The results have been there. This year they haven't; so far at least.... and we may reach a breaking point soon, but I'm not sure we are there yet.

From what I understood, when the habs acquired Pouliot, he still had eligibility to be in Hamilton. Weber could have stayed in Hamilton last year, rather then be used as a forward.

Weber was used as a defenceman for over 40 games last year.

Pouliot did not have AHL eligibility without waivers when acquired.

[hab29RETIRED]

I don't care if a player 'likes' a coach. I care about how he performs under that coach. Bouwmeester had his best years under Martin. Fact. So did Redden. fact. Martin developed Alfreddson, Havlat, Hossa, Philips, and a bunch of others. Fact.

O'Byrne - oh please.

Again, I agree that JM may have to go. The difference is that I make the case based on results, not some a priori antipathy for the guy because he's boring and looks like The Penguin.

Yep, JM "developed" Hossa, Alfreddson, Havlat. If it was any other coach those guys wouldn't have been studs. Redden and Phillips were seen as can't miss top high draft picks (#1/#2). Those guys would never have been great players if someone else were their coaches

Hell, even Milbury would have had a hard time in not developing those guys - although he probably would have traded them for the chance to draft more americans that he could sign to 15 year deals

As far as O'byrne goes, he is a top four Dman on the Avalanche, who aren't doing to shabby right now.

[Natural Mystic]

This upcoming week will reveal pretty much everything about the Habs. To be fair, JM is under pressure. His interview last night showed that.

Bottom line is the Habs need to start winning. Period.

If they loose then I'm sure we'll see some changes. If they win 6/8 points in the next 4 games. They can power themselves back in the playoff race.

Time will tell. They have the skill.

And for the record. I love Eller.

[bbp]

And for the record. I love Eller.

Got to love them Danish... such good pastries...

[Commandant]

Yup, every player who developped under JM did so in spite of him (alfredsson, hossa, etc were all great players who would have succeeded under anyone)... but every guy who doesn't develop or who slows down is JM's fault, it isn't because we might have overrated their potential.

It makes such sense.

[Natural Mystic]

Got to love them Danish... such good pastries...

LoL, remember last year? <center><iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_NW2CdsTNX4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></center>