hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 A lot of people have focused lately on Gomez, but what about Plekanec and Cammalleri? Don't they deserve some criticism after their lackluster play in the last two games. Let's face it, the way he has been playing lately, Plekanec is not any better than Gomez. On the power play, he is absolutely horrible. I don't know what is going on with him, and Cammalleri. Terrible! He might be suspended, but I clearly have the impression that he tried to avoid the contact at the last moment. If you look closely, he moves his elbow to get it out the way. That's the way I see it anyway. I blame Martin for Pleks play. Two reasons I see for Pleks play - which all things considered has not been that bad. First of all, Pleks does NOT belong on the point on the PP. The PP is not going to be as good as is it would if Markov was here, but there is NO FRIGGIN REASON it should be THIS bad!!! That is just poor decision making and stubborness from Martin in trying to keep on jamming a square peg in a round hole. First he was stubborn with sticking with Darche on the PP. Now he is stubborn for sticking with Pleks on the point, instead of in low where he has been successful for the past two years. Secondly, Pleks has no chemistry with GIonta, yet Martin continues to throw them together. While Cole and MaxPac look good with DD, one of them should be with Pleks. Especially since Cammy has sucked. Cammy on the other hand has sucked. Yes he has been injured. And yes he has hit a lot of posts. But the most damning issue I have with him is that you don't really see any effort, let alone second effort from him and he has looked lazy and disinterested for most of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Imagine if Pacioretty get's suspended....and Chara didn't. If that were me, I'd have some choice words for Shanahan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I've now calmed down, and can say we're ok getting the 1 point. How was there no call on the Pacioretty hit? Pens had two goals taken away. Also, who the **** doesn't play as hard as possible until the whistle? Sorry, but that was a messed up play all around. The ref screwed up royally. But why was a 6'7" foot guy playing like a pussy???? Gill has to be softest big man in the NHL. I think he modeled his game after the friendly giant. There is no excuse for a dman quitting on the play like that. This was worse then Kovolev against the bruins in the playoffs a few years back. At least he got slashed. What is friggin Gill's excuse???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Maybe Cammalleri is so sick on the coaches approach to the game. Maybe he feels held back. I think that's part of the reason. Martin's style doesn't suit the personel we have. We should have 6 guys who should have a solid shot at 30+ goals or at least getting pretty close to 30 (AK46, MaxPac, Cammy, GIonta, COle, Pleks) and 3 who should clear 35 (Cammy, MaxPac, AK46). I think its Martin and his coaching style holding them back. The only forwards who have done well under Martin are Pleks, Moen and Darche - and IMO if it wasn't for Martin, Darche is an ECHL player. I also think Eller's progression is being held back by Martin, let alone Subban. Did you see Letang tonight. No hesitation in joining and leading the rush. Subban is shackeled, because he knows if he turns it over, he's going to get chewed out by Martin. Montreal's young players play scared to make mistakes, because they know their ice time will be taken away, their veterans don't seem to care - even if they play like crap, they will still get their ice time from Martin. He is either injured, or he is upset about something. Considering that he seemed decidedly unhappy last year too, I'm starting to wonder whether something's going on. Sheer speculation of course. But the guy who came here in 2010 seemed so much more energized and ebullient. Awful as his defensive game is, he might be worth demoting for a bit. I see him as the real weak sister on that line right now. Maybe he is one of the guys Martin referred to in his interview with Stubbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I've now calmed down, and can say we're ok getting the 1 point. How was there no call on the Pacioretty hit? Pens had two goals taken away. Also, who the **** doesn't play as hard as possible until the whistle? Sorry, but that was a messed up play all around. I really think that Pac pulls away when he sees how high he is coming with the hit. I think its a suspension too, but it's close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I blame Martin for Pleks play. Two reasons I see for Pleks play - which all things considered has not been that bad. First of all, Pleks does NOT belong on the point on the PP. The PP is not going to be as good as is it would if Markov was here, but there is NO FRIGGIN REASON it should be THIS bad!!! That is just poor decision making and stubborness from Martin in trying to keep on jamming a square peg in a round hole. First he was stubborn with sticking with Darche on the PP. Now he is stubborn for sticking with Pleks on the point, instead of in low where he has been successful for the past two years. Secondly, Pleks has no chemistry with GIonta, yet Martin continues to throw them together. While Cole and MaxPac look good with DD, one of them should be with Pleks. Especially since Cammy has sucked. Cammy on the other hand has sucked. Yes he has been injured. And yes he has hit a lot of posts. But the most damning issue I have with him is that you don't really see any effort, let alone second effort from him and he has looked lazy and disinterested for most of the season. I blame martin for famin in africa, global warming, the aids epidemic, these weird skin tags under my armpits, and my children's spoiled behavior. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Did not watch the game and too drunk to read the 130+ posts. How did AK46 do ? I read he was +1 and used 14ish minutes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Did not watch the game and too drunk to read the 130+ posts. How did AK46 do ? I read he was +1 and used 14ish minutes... Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I blame martin for famin in africa, global warming, the aids epidemic, these weird skin tags under my armpits, and my children's spoiled behavior. Agreed. People blame Martin far too easily and for everything. The PP is one thing I'm not gonna rant on after last night. Yes they were 0/2 or whatever... but just watching it, it was much better than the Philly game, Carolina game, Boston game, this week. You won't score on every PP, but at least if you are generating chances, you will score eventually. Last night they moved the puck well, crashed the net, generated chances, even put one off the post. I can deal with that, if you keep playing that way, goals will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Agreed. People blame Martin far too easily and for everything. The PP is one thing I'm not gonna rant on after last night. Yes they were 0/2 or whatever... but just watching it, it was much better than the Philly game, Carolina game, Boston game, this week. You won't score on every PP, but at least if you are generating chances, you will score eventually. Last night they moved the puck well, crashed the net, generated chances, even put one off the post. I can deal with that, if you keep playing that way, goals will come. Yeah, even the excellent blogger Leigh-Ann Power has joined the Martin-hating bandwagon. It gets a bit discouraging, especially since many of the same people will begin to fulminate against any new coach we happen to bring in once the team hits a rough patch. I'm reminded of Boone, calling for Carbonneau's firing and then immediately condemning Gainey for the firing. ALL coaches make a multitude of decisions and fans will always be able to find decisions they can fixate on. I honestly don't think Martin is the real issue for many of these fans; like Price in 2010, like Brisebois before that, he has become The Scapegoat for all of their frustrations about the Canadiens. And when he is gone it will eventually be someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Agreed. People blame Martin far too easily and for everything. The PP is one thing I'm not gonna rant on after last night. Yes they were 0/2 or whatever... but just watching it, it was much better than the Philly game, Carolina game, Boston game, this week. You won't score on every PP, but at least if you are generating chances, you will score eventually. Last night they moved the puck well, crashed the net, generated chances, even put one off the post. I can deal with that, if you keep playing that way, goals will come. I have to disagree about the PP. The two best chances on our PP were by Pittsburgh. Line combos also make no sense. Why is Pleks still with Gionta???? Gionta was a -4 last night, -2 against philly, and -3 against Carolina. Shouldn't that be a sign to change things around. If we were tallking about Eller or Ak46, we would be seeing them playing around 10 minutes. While I don't think the answer is to play him 10 minutes, I do think you need to get him off that line. Pleks is being already saddled with a disinterested Cammy and then you add a guy that has absolutely no chemistry and you pretty much prevent your best centre from contributing much offensively. I'm not going to bother going into Pleks being are best player in low on the PP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Yeah, even the excellent blogger Leigh-Ann Power has joined the Martin-hating bandwagon. It gets a bit discouraging, especially since many of the same people will begin to fulminate against any new coach we happen to bring in once the team hits a rough patch. I'm reminded of Boone, calling for Carbonneau's firing and then immediately condemning Gainey for the firing. ALL coaches make a multitude of decisions and fans will always be able to find decisions they can fixate on. I honestly don't think Martin is the real issue for many of these fans; like Price in 2010, like Brisebois before that, he has become The Scapegoat for all of their frustrations about the Canadiens. And when he is gone it will eventually be someone else. Marting was an issue to me the day he was hired and hasn't proved anything otherwise. He style is just not suited for the horses we have. Gainey brought in a mule driver manage race horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well I agree that I don't like the Cammy - Pleks - Gionta line, its an interesting dilemna because DD's line and Eller's line both looked great last night. So what line do you break up so that you fix the Pleks line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Marting was an issue to me the day he was hired and hasn't proved anything otherwise. He style is just not suited for the horses we have. Gainey brought in a mule driver manage race horses. I don't agree at all with this. This team was built for speed. It was small and fast; and only recently has it added size to the forwards in Eller, Patches, and Cole. So what system did you want? a) One that maintains puck control by cycling in the offensive zone? b) An agressive forecheck? How did you expect a team of small speedy players to generate offence? Neither of those two systems would work as with the size of our guys, its just not gonna happen. They aren't going to be an effective forechecking team long term, or a puck control (cycle team) long term. It might work in spurts, but long term they will get knocked off the puck too much, and its not gonna happen. The best way to utilize the speed is through counter attack. Generating turnovers and loose pucks, and scoring off the odd man rushes that you create and a good PP that capitalizes on the penalties you can draw. The best way to generate these turnovers and loose pucks is by playing the trap that Martin uses, not by going to an offensive scheme that just won't work without size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well I agree that I don't like the Cammy - Pleks - Gionta line, its an interesting dilemna because DD's line and Eller's line both looked great last night. So what line do you break up so that you fix the Pleks line? I think you keep components of the other two lines together. I'd like to see either Maxpac or AK46 with Pleks, but right now DD is doing a good job of finding Maxpac and Eller and Ak46 have worked well together. But you have to do something to get your #1 centre going. Here's what I'd like to see right now: Cammy-Pleks-Cole MaxPac-DD-Gionta Moen-Eller-Ak46 Palushaj-Nikoleine-bring up BLunden or someone When Gomez comes back: Cammy-Pleks-AK46 Maxpac-Eller-DD Gionta-Gomez-Cole Moen-Nikolinen-Blunden/Palushaj Don't know how long White is out for, but I'd put him into Blunden/Palushaj spot at that time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I don't agree at all with this. This team was built for speed. It was small and fast; and only recently has it added size to the forwards in Eller, Patches, and Cole. So what system did you want? a) One that maintains puck control by cycling in the offensive zone? b) An agressive forecheck? How did you expect a team of small speedy players to generate offence? Neither of those two systems would work as with the size of our guys, its just not gonna happen. They aren't going to be an effective forechecking team long term, or a puck control (cycle team) long term. It might work in spurts, but long term they will get knocked off the puck too much, and its not gonna happen. The best way to utilize the speed is through counter attack. Generating turnovers and loose pucks, and scoring off the odd man rushes that you create and a good PP that capitalizes on the penalties you can draw. The best way to generate these turnovers and loose pucks is by playing the trap that Martin uses, not by going to an offensive scheme that just won't work without size. The Habs were built for speed going back to the Carbo years, but because of the big makeover summer, which most people loved, Gainey made it smaller then ever. I think most people here while finally agree that even if we hadn't given up a stude like McDonough - Gomez was a HUGE mistake. Everyone credits getting Gionta was part of the reason why Gainey got Gomez. Gionta actually was an afterthought. Until Kovolev backed out of the verbal deal he had with Gainey and wanted Gainey to add a year on, Gionta wasn't part of the plan. Resigning Kovolev was was the second big bullet Gainey dodged (Lecavalier was the first). However, how much better would this team be if Gainey had kept Koivu (instead of getting Gomez) and let Kovolev walk?? The team become smaller becuase Gainey's summer of the singing smurf forwards. To top that off, he signed a 6'7" guy who can't hit in Gill - may as well have gotten another smurf. Koivu played like he was 6'7". Except when he is floppig around on the PK, Gill plays like he his 5'5". Having said that there is no reason why this team can't play a puck possession style with its size. The issue has always been the supporting guys the habs filled the roster with have been useless scrubs like Darche, or big guys like Moen who aren't all that physical. This is the first year that I've been satisfied with Moen - not becuase of his physical play, but because he at least has been contributing. When they got him, he had a rep for being a much more physical player then I've seen in Montreal. There is no reason why small speedy forwards can wear down the opposition with speed - we've seen the habs do that against the bruins all decade as underdogs. The issue is when you have small forwards surrounded by soft 3rd/4th liners. This year we do have 3 big top six forwards - who not only are big, but can skate like the wind. There is NO REASON why we can't play an aggresive forechecking style with the guys we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well, I was at the game last night, and was very disappointed in the way it ended. Once again, as soon as we took that 2 goal lead, our boys sat back and sat their fat asses on it. We got 3 maybe 4 powerplays once we got that two goal lead and they didn't generate any offence on any of those PP's. True, that Carey had the puck under his glove (that play happened in front of me, i was only 8 rows up) and could see the puck trapped under his pad, and he had his glove over it as well. The Ref was on the other side, and couldn'T see anything. BUt I believe that there's no excuse to stop playing when the god damn whistle hasen't been blown. Why did Gill let Letang wack away at Carey's glove? Where were the other players to help Carey? In any case, this game should never have gone to OT....but once again, we got lazy and sat back on a 2 goal lead. We were pathetic on the PP and many veterans are starting to look aweful out there. Cammalleri is starting to make me think that he's a primadonna. He doesn't give a 2nd effort and if things don't go his way, he's gonna pout. Gionta is a -9 in his last 3 games...something isn't right with him, and Plex is forced to play on the point (on the PP) and it clearly isn't working. On the bright side, Carey played a great game. Had it not been for him, the Pens would have easily won this game 5-3 or 6-3. Once again our best line was the Desharnais, Cole and MaxPac line. They are awesome together. It was also nice to see the AK46, Eller and Moen line together again. They played a good game. I can't wait for Markov to come back, because without him, this team has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of making the playoffs. None whatsoever! Let's face it, the way he has been playing lately, Plekanec is not any better than Gomez. On the power play, he is absolutely horrible. I don't know what is going on with him, and Cammalleri. Terrible! I agree with your comments regarding Cammy and Plex, but Plex does have 20 points, whereas Cammy has half the points Plex does. Also, Plex is forced to play a position he's not used to playing(the point on the PP) and Cammy is not putting in the effort necessary. In my books, Cammy deserves way more criticism than PLex does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well, I was at the game last night, and was very disappointed in the way it ended. Once again, as soon as we took that 2 goal lead, our boys sat back and sat their fat asses on it. We got 3 maybe 4 powerplays once we got that two goal lead and they didn't generate any offence on any of those PP's. True, that Carey had the puck under his glove (that play happened in front of me, i was only 8 rows up) and could see the puck trapped under his pad, and he had his glove over it as well. The Ref was on the other side, and couldn'T see anything. BUt I believe that there's no excuse to stop playing when the god damn whistle hasen't been blown. Why did Gill let Letang wack away at Carey's glove? Where were the other players to help Carey? In any case, this game should never have gone to OT....but once again, we got lazy and sat back on a 2 goal lead. We were pathetic on the PP and many veterans are starting to look aweful out there. Cammalleri is starting to make me think that he's a primadonna. He doesn't give a 2nd effort and if things don't go his way, he's gonna pout. Gionta is a -9 in his last 3 games...something isn't right with him, and Plex is forced to play on the point (on the PP) and it clearly isn't working. On the bright side, Carey played a great game. Had it not been for him, the Pens would have easily won this game 5-3 or 6-3. Once again our best line was the Desharnais, Cole and MaxPac line. They are awesome together. It was also nice to see the AK46, Eller and Moen line together again. They played a good game. I can't wait for Markov to come back, because without him, this team has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of making the playoffs. None whatsoever! I agree with your comments regarding Cammy and Plex, but Plex does have 20 points, whereas Cammy has half the points Plex does. Also, Plex is forced to play a position he's not used to playing(the point on the PP) and Cammy is not putting in the effort necessary. In my books, Cammy deserves way more criticism than PLex does. This team can make the playoffs without Markov. But it won't be easy, of course. It's odd to me to hear such resounding pessimism after we go into OT in a game that many fans were predicting we had no chance of winning. I agree that we shouldn't blow 2-goal leads, but it's been known to happen to all sorts of teams, especially in the post-lockout NHL. I guarantee you the word going around the bench was 'keep pressing, boys, don't sit on the lead.' Unfortunately it's all too common for human nature to take over. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, we did not lose that game; the refs won it for Pittsburgh with one of the worst blown calls I can remember. Yeah, Gill should have been more relentless. He was probably as stunned as Price that the whistle wasn't blown. It's reasonable to criticize him, but let's keep in mind that most human beings are caught flat-footed when a pattern you've seen 10 000 times is suddenly and arbitrarily broken. And I agree with you 100% about Cammy. Pleks is NOT the problem...at this point, Cammy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Agreed. People blame Martin far too easily and for everything. The PP is one thing I'm not gonna rant on after last night. Yes they were 0/2 or whatever... but just watching it, it was much better than the Philly game, Carolina game, Boston game, this week. You won't score on every PP, but at least if you are generating chances, you will score eventually. Last night they moved the puck well, crashed the net, generated chances, even put one off the post. I can deal with that, if you keep playing that way, goals will come. I don't blame Martin either. Plekanec might not be at his place at the point on the PP, but he is not doing a good job either centering his line. And I don't think that it has anything to do with his forwards. The way I see it, he looks as though he never sees a good opportunity to pass the puck. Also, he is far from being effective at getting the puck past the blue line in the offensive zone. Most of the time, his strategy is to dump the puck behind the net in the hope that one of his wingers will be able to retrieve it. Most of the time, it is useless. As for Cammalleri, I hope that he is still injured, otherwise there is no excuses for his lackluster play. Talking about Martin. It's one thing to praise Letang for his play, and say that Martin keeps Subban on the leash. But don't you remember Subban's play in overtime, when he set up Max Pax? I saw him carry the puck a few times in the last games. IMO, Martin doesn't hold him at all. What's been told to him, probably, is to choose his opportunities. No need for a a risky play when you are the last player to carry the puck, for example. Or in the last minute of play of a close game... It all makes sense to me. If Subban can't understand that, he won't have a great career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'll be the first to say it....Cammy and weber to Calgary for Boumester (sp) and bourque. Then bury gomez in the minors or give him to columbus for a pick. Make it so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'll be the first to say it....Cammy and weber to Calgary for Boumester (sp) and bourque. Then bury gomez in the minors or give him to columbus for a pick. Make it so Why do you want to get a guy who has NEVER made the playoffs in his life???? The last thing the habs need is another $6M dman and if people here are critical about AK46's lack of consistency, Bourque brings a whole new meaning to streakiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Any word on discipline for Pacioretty? I'm fascinated to see if this joke of a league gives him something after the Chara deal last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Any word on discipline for Pacioretty? I'm fascinated to see if this joke of a league gives him something after the Chara deal last year. Hearing with Shanahan on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I some thoughts concerning the Pacioretty hit. I watched it last night, and as soon as I saw it I said he's getting a couple games for it. I know it wasn't malicious or intended to hurt Letang. If Pacioretty gets suspended because of it, there would have to be some fallout of the decision. If the player wasn't in a vulnerable position and the same hit was made, would it be suspendable? Not at all. Who put Letang in the vulnerable position? Letang did. If the player getting hit put himself in a vulnerable position, without any contact with anyone else on the ice surface, shouldn't Letang be responsible for some of the blame? I understand the ruse are to protect the players for injury, but according to the rules the only person on the ice surface thats not responsible for your safety is you. You can turn your back to checks and risk injury. You get hurt the person hitting you gets punished. You can lead with your head and risk injury, as Letang did entering the zone. You get hit the person hitting you gets punished. You can skate with you head at other player's elbow height and risk injury. You get hit and the person hitting you gets punished. Players need to get back to taking their safety in their own hands. 25 years ago Letang was the one at fault. Not saying 25 years ago it was right, there needs to be a medium between who is really at fault in a situation like this. Right now the rule are taking hitting out of the game, players putting themselves in vulnerable positions willingly just to avoid being hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Chara should have nothing to do with this hearing. Pacs made a clean hit, imo. I don't see who they can suspend him. there were several similar hits this year that were review, no suspension. He did hit Letang in the nose with his shoulder, but after he hit his shoulder. He never left his feet, nor did he make primary contact with the head. It was secondary contact. If they are going to suspend him, then I am not sure how a guy is suppose to be able to make any open ice hit. I have no problem with the review, but if this is a suspension, then I am confused again. There was no reason for Pacs to let up on the hit, Letang looked right at him and only got hit in the nose because he dropped his head to make the shot (which he got away). Now, before I get accused of homerism.. I thought it would be a suspension at the start of the year when they were basically saying, any hit to the head (kind of like high sticking). But then they made several decisions which clarified that hitting the head is not suspendable if it is from a clean check with secondary contact. Shanny needs to be consistent. He can't use the ref's excuse of "its a fast game". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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