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Fire Jacques Martin


C-Love

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Our forwards are perfectly set for a quick strike game.... absolutely.

How do you quick strike? Simple, cause turnovers, and win races to loose pucks in your own zone, and then once you get that turnover or loose puck you quickly transition to offence creating a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 the other way.

How do you cause turnovers, and get to loose pucks? By playing defence and forcing the other teams to make mistakes, and then capitalizing on those mistakes.

That's the plan in Montreal most nights, thats Martin's system... but it wasn't done last night.

And how exactly is this "game plan" working for us? It sounds pretty easy in theory. I don't have the stats, and am not sure they even exist, but I would bet that Montreal is near the bottom of the league in offensive odd man rushes. Why? Because they play so deep in the neutral zone and their own end. They literally skate towards their end when the other team is breaking out. They are worried about positional play rather than puck pursuit or man vs man coverage. I have watched a ton of Leafs games this year and this is something they have been doing very well. Attack! They don't have a "big" lineup, and frankly it doesn't matter as much as people think. It's not about banging bodies as much as it is about putting pressure on the other team to get rid of the puck. THAT is how you cause turnovers.

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Please don't shoot me, the messenger. But, local radio host Marinaro just tweeted with a link to something called The Fourth Period. It says a major shakeup might be in the works. Which could include both Gauthier and obviously Martin, who very few want to keep. Again, I'm just offering up information.

Well they were given the "Vote of (Kiss of Death) Confidence." That's usually a pretty good sporting indicator that the guys are on shaky ground. If (big if) that's the case, then look for some kind of shocking move (assuming ownership approves) in the following days, and expect the Habs to come out with a (slightly) more attacking look to their game (anything to make them less boring). Also, if PG and JM are fired, look for BG to be quietly ushered out the rear door with little fanfare.

I hear Houle and Tremblay are getting their dance cards in order...

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Please don't shoot me, the messenger. But, local radio host Marinaro just tweeted with a link to something called The Fourth Period. It says a major shakeup might be in the works. Which could include both Gauthier and obviously Martin, who very few want to keep. Again, I'm just offering up information.

The fourth period says sources but Francois Gagnon spoke to Molson directly and he said he will not send Gomez to he AHL and will not fire Martin or Gauthier. I wonder who to believe in this case. Sources or Molson?

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The fourth period says sources but Francois Gagnon spoke to Molson directly and he said he will not send Gomez to he AHL and will not fire Martin or Gauthier. I wonder who to believe in this case. Sources or Molson?

How many owners etc, etc, have said that kind of thing to throw off the heat, then done exactly what they said they wouldn't do? IMO it's not lying, it's business. He has to stand up for the guys he's got hired, but he also has to keep his options open if he really wants to win.

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Please don't shoot me, the messenger. But, local radio host Marinaro just tweeted with a link to something called The Fourth Period. It says a major shakeup might be in the works. Which could include both Gauthier and obviously Martin, who very few want to keep. Again, I'm just offering up information.

The Fourth Period is a hockey lifestyle magazine....whatever that means...but, they are also NOT a rumour site. The guys at this mag at pretty well plugged into the hockey scene so if something comes out of there it tends not to be garbage.

That said, I'm surprised they have a supposed scoop on the Habs before any of the other local media who are MUCH more plugged into the Montreal scene than the 4th Period.

Still...it's tantalizing to say the least since, imo, a clean sweep is exactly what the doctor ordered.

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It's not a stat without context. Their 24th in shot %, 24th in goals for, but 10th in shots. In the bottom 10 teams in the league in shot%, 3 are currently in a playoff spot, and all 3 have less goals against. If a high number of shots and low scoring percent doesn't mean alot of bad quality of shots to you, I don't know what does. Instead of guessing something, look it up first. If I could find the stats on actual scoring chances I guarantee you it would further support what I'm saying. What's next? Are you gonna pitch the notion that all goalies somehow have amazing nights against Montreal nearly every game?

I never said it was just Gill, Gorges and Subban, I said their doing it also. If all 6 defensemen are doing it, their being instructed to do it, not just the rookies as you speculate.

Edited by Turd Burglar
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The fourth period says sources but Francois Gagnon spoke to Molson directly and he said he will not send Gomez to he AHL and will not fire Martin or Gauthier. I wonder who to believe in this case. Sources or Molson?

Whether Molson is telling the truth or not will become evident pretty soon. That said, what did you expect him to say when a journalist asks him about Gomez, Gauthier et al.?

Say that he wants to ditch Gomez, that he doesn't like the GM and that he thinks the coach is too old-school and rigid?

Not likely. He said what he had to say...all that remains to be seen is if it was a smoke-screen or the truth.

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Here's the link to the 4th Period story on the possible Habs shake-up:

http://www.thefourth.../mtl111207.html

Interesting. Not entirely convincing, but interesting. The part I found most intriguing was the attribution to some players that JM's system is 'too restrictive.' That'd be Cammy, Gomez, and possibly Gio.

Hey, if we want to do a clean sweep and bring in hugely qualified people like Jim Nill, I'm not gonna cry in my beer about it; in some ways I prefer that to irrationally firing Martin and keeping Gauthier in charge. It's all definitely an overreaction in pure hockey terms. But it could make sense in terms of the new owner bringing in his own guys - hardly a rare scenario in pro sports. What I would not accept is firing Gauthier and Martin and bringing in other francophones, of no discernably superior qualifications. The good thing about these rumours is that highly-qualified ANGLOS are being cited as possible replacements. It'd be worth irrationally turfing the current management group if it establishes that the Habs are more interested in being the best organization possible than in being French.

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...

Dear Turd Burglar,

When you decided on your name, were you at Mike Ribeiro's house? Are you a fan of Red Light Racicot? Do you, in fact, burgle turds?

Sincerely in epithet admiration,

Moi

</thread hijack>

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Interesting. Not entirely convincing, but interesting. The part I found most intriguing was the attribution to some players that JM's system is 'too restrictive.' That'd be Cammy, Gomez, and possibly Gio.

Hey, if we want to do a clean sweep and bring in hugely qualified people like Jim Nill, I'm not gonna cry in my beer about it; in some ways I prefer that to irrationally firing Martin and keeping Gauthier in charge. It's all definitely an overreaction in pure hockey terms. But it could make sense in terms of the new owner bringing in his own guys - hardly a rare scenario in pro sports. What I would not accept is firing Gauthier and Martin and bringing in other francophones, of no discernably superior qualifications. The good thing about these rumours is that highly-qualified ANGLOS are being cited as possible replacements. It'd be worth irrationally turfing the current management group if it establishes that the Habs are more interested in being the best organization possible than in being French.

The thing I find interesting about the story is that it says Gainey has been talking to Molson about making the changes. Really? Gainey's the guy who put both Martin and Gauthier in place.

I think if there is a clean sweep that he is a BIG part of the problem too, and must go.

Either way, it makes for interesting gameday discussions!

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The thing I find interesting about the story is that it says Gainey has been talking to Molson about making the changes. Really? Gainey's the guy who put both Martin and Gauthier in place.

I think if there is a clean sweep that he is a BIG part of the problem too, and must go.

Either way, it makes for interesting gameday discussions!

I see where you're coming from, but I don't know. Firing Bob Gainey? He's Mr. Montreal Canadiens. Dumping him would be like tearing out your soul. And he probably still brings more value to the organization than he detracts from it. If you really think he's a liability, just quietly marginalize him, don't throw him out on his ear.

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First of all, this is just media rumour-mongering. It may be absolute fiction.

Second, if there's some truth to this, I doubt that it had to do with Gainey knocking on Molson's door and telling him it's time to clean house. Much more probable is that Molson, having already decided that he wanted to explore other options for team management, approached the trusted Gainey for counsel. At that point, if you're Bob, you're probably not going to martyr yourself in defence of Gauthier/Martin; more likely, you agree to participate in the process, offering your reading of the pros and cons of various options (without necessarily conceding that throwing Gauthier under the bus is the best move).

None of this means that Gauthier is Bob's puppet. The fact is, we have no idea how power is actually distributed at the upper levels of the organization. But my guess is that if Bob had wanted to remain as GM, he'd have done so, rather than go skulking behind the scenes and working to undermine his successor. This is Bob Gainey we're talking about, not Machiavelli.

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I see where you're coming from, but I don't know. Firing Bob Gainey? He's Mr. Montreal Canadiens. Dumping him would be like tearing out your soul. And he probably still brings more value to the organization than he detracts from it. If you really think he's a liability, just quietly marginalize him, don't throw him out on his ear.

Ya for sure...there are many ways to "fire" someone. They can just shift his responsibilities so that he's no longer involved in hockey operations. That's what I'd do at least...

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Whether Molson is telling the truth or not will become evident pretty soon. That said, what did you expect him to say when a journalist asks him about Gomez, Gauthier et al.?

Say that he wants to ditch Gomez, that he doesn't like the GM and that he thinks the coach is too old-school and rigid?

Not likely. He said what he had to say...all that remains to be seen is if it was a smoke-screen or the truth.

Thats what I am saying. Molson says he has no plans.....is he up front enough to come out and say he is looking for a change? Now Gagnon is going to look like a moron if this is infact true. The fact he gave a vote of confidence usually is a pre-cursor to firing. I really hope someone like McGuire becoems GM but he just sld his Montreal home and I doubt he'd be heading back.

Don;t know if he is qualified by the way. Just love his passion and the style of play he endorses.

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First of all, this is just media rumour-mongering. It may be absolute fiction.

Second, if there's some truth to this, I doubt that it had to do with Gainey knocking on Molson's door and telling him it's time to clean house. Much more probable is that Molson, having already decided that he wanted to explore other options for team management, approached the trusted Gainey for counsel. At that point, if you're Bob, you're probably not going to martyr yourself in defence of Gauthier/Martin; more likely, you agree to participate in the process, offering your reading of the pros and cons of various options (without necessarily conceding that throwing Gauthier under the bus is the best move).

None of this means that Gauthier is Bob's puppet. The fact is, we have no idea how power is actually distributed at the upper levels of the organization. But my guess is that if Bob had wanted to remain as GM, he'd have done so, rather than go skulking behind the scenes and working to undermine his successor. This is Bob Gainey we're talking about, not Machiavelli.

LMAO!!! This is pure genius!

Thats what I am saying. Molson says he has no plans.....is he up front enough to come out and say he is looking for a change? Now Gagnon is going to look like a moron if this is infact true. The fact he gave a vote of confidence usually is a pre-cursor to firing. I really hope someone like McGuire becoems GM but he just sld his Montreal home and I doubt he'd be heading back.

Don;t know if he is qualified by the way. Just love his passion and the style of play he endorses.

I think McGuire should be, at a min, interviewed for the GM post if/when it becomes available. Him and Molson has history together too so I wouldn't be surprised if he is on Molson's short list...

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Does this mean Bob is the de facto GM and Gauthier is just his puppet?

Are you or would you be surprised?

LMAO!!! This is pure genius!

I think McGuire should be, at a min, interviewed for the GM post if/when it becomes available. Him and Molson has history together too so I wouldn't be surprised if he is on Molson's short list...

My ideal scenario....which for the record as you know I still like Gauthier, but my idea scenario would be McGuire as GM and Randy Carlyle as coach. Guarantee you we'd see some changes.

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Are you or would you be surprised?

My ideal scenario....which for the record as you know I still like Gauthier, but my idea scenario would be McGuire as GM and Randy Carlyle as coach. Guarantee you we'd see some changes.

That's a pretty sweet combo, imo. McGuire speaks French so he'd be OK. I really wonder if this city is ready to accept a coach that doesn't speak French though. I hope so, but think not.

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I wouldn't hire Pierre, not a chance.

The guy is the definition of "reactionary personality" which is not someone I want in the GM spot. I don't want him ready to make trades after every 3 game slump a guy has.

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Agreed. McGuire is a blowhard who wasn't good enough to GM in St. Louis and we want him here? Why? It's a classic case of media conditioning, of confusing entertainment value with substance (which is precisely why so many fans want JM fired IMHO). Now Jim Nill, that's another story.

Michael Farber was on the radio today saying that RDS's ratings are down 14% this season. THAT is the sort of thing that ownership tends to notice, since it ultimately affects the bottom line; and if we're looking for reasons to take this rumour seriously, I'd suppose that'd be one.

Further thought - Francois gagnon was on Vancouver radio saying that to his mind, a Habs GM need not speak French, but that a coach - which addresses the public daily - does need to. It's an interesting thought, that we could split the difference on the language requirement. Better than an all-bilingual policy, I think.

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I'd love McGuire - mostly because that iggling centre issue we've had for a decade would be dealt with so fast it'd make your head spin.

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