Kaberle to Montreal

[Trizzak]

Is Kaberle going to play on Saturday?

[Commandant]

Is Kaberle going to play on Saturday?

Probable was the last I heard.

[Habsy]

There was talk on a Toronto radio station, I believe from Doug Maclean, that Kaberle was close to being sent DOWN to the minors. Could be BS. But if there's any truth, I don't like the sound of that.

[bbp]

I have never liked him... ever. He was one of the players in the league I always thought was overrated and was playing for a pay check.

I really hope that he isn't the player I have always seen him as...

[Fanpuck33]

I would like to know how he feels about playing in Montreal. Based on most people's thoughts on his play in Boston and Carolina, he's not the same player who wore the leaf. I know that players don't feel the same way they used to about rival teams, but he's a guy who seemed to love being a Leaf. He did his best to stay there as long as possible by refusing to waive his no trade clause until the last minute. I gotta wonder about how a guy that bleeds blue and white feels about adding red.

[hab29RETIRED]

The big difference next year will be all the other increases. If price signs long term he is going to be looking for RInne type money - I would say a min of $6-6.5m.

While i think you are probably too high for Subban's increase, I wouldn't mind TRYING to lock him up for around 7 yrs for around $4.5m. (given his play so far, I think he would get around $3m in short term deal - would be even less if it wasn't for the minutes, but you have to look at what Bufallo gave Meyers).

We also didn't have all of Cole, patches, Gionta, Gomez, pleks at over $4.5m WITH new contracts due to Eller and Ak46.

The players revenue share will probably also go down with probably means a lower cap. If they roll back salaries and allow buyouts, that will definitely help.

For all those complaining about cap space next year....

A realistic cost projection for the Habs on Defence.

Markov - 5.75

Kaberle - 4.25

Subban - 4.0 (guess, and i honestly think this number is high)

Gorges - 3.5 (seems fair)

Emelin - 2.0 (pretty big raise for an RFA with no arb rights, but KHL threat so he gets a decent deal).

Diaz - 1.0

Weber/Nash/St.Denis/UFA 7th Dman - 1.0million

Total = 21.5 million or basically the same as what we spent on the

Projected 10-11 defence core of Markov (5.75), Hamrlik (5.5), Spacek (3.83), Gill (2.5), Subban (.9) Gorges (1.2), ,and Obyrne (1)

add in wiz for half a season, and we spent more in 10-11

[johnnyhasbeen]

Welcome to Montreal Tomas! Hope you are happy here and regain your form.

Why do people on here insist our season is done when we are only one game out of the playoffs and two out of sixth? You call this a desperate move and then make comments like that? Pretty closed minded I think.

This move has potential of being a steal. Even if Kaberle only helps the PP slightly it is a good move. I was never a fan of Spacek. Last season I was cringing everytime he or Sopel hit the ice. Maybe he regains his Toronto form and we move him for 2 first rounders? WIld hope but yoou never know. If he does regain his form we won big, if not he is no worse than Spacek. IMO.

Something had to happen and at least this is something. It didn't cost us more than a mediocre d-man and I was afraid we would make a move that cost us some youth. As for cap space I will worry about that come year end. As for now we need to do what we have to if we are going to make the playoffs. That raises the question of is the team good enough to go deep if we make it. No matter how bad the season started we have shown that we can beat any team in the league when we are in top form. We have dropped some we should have won against top teams and beat some other wons. In a 7 game series we have shown we stand a good shot against Philly, Boston and Buffalo at the very least. If we met Vancouver in the final I would feel we can take them aswell. Just don't let up after 3 goals!

If you are bent on negative thinking and believe all is lost this year then this is a bad trade for you as there is risk. If you think, as I do, that we will still be playing come May then this is a move that had to happen.

[hab29RETIRED]

Lebrun pretty much said that. He said they wanted to send him down, but couldn't afford it and that they were desperate to get rid of him but nobody wanted him. Lebrun usually doesnt BS.

The other thing that scares me is Muler probably was asked about the seal and choose a washed up Spacek he knows over Kaberle.

If Kaberle is only a solution for this year it isn't a bad mOve for the Habs, but he has 2 more years left on his contract and is a guy who seemed comfortable in a losing culture.

We have far too many guys in the declining years of their Careers (production wise), on this team - Gomez, Gionta and. Would add Cammy to that list based on his 3 years in Montreal, where each year, in the regular season, he has looked worse. Inthink Cammy's production is directly related to martin's coaching. I also think Martin was referring to Gomez, Cammy and Ak46 when he was talking about players not being on the same page.

There was talk on a Toronto radio station, I believe from Doug Maclean, that Kaberle was close to being sent DOWN to the minors. Could be BS. But if there's any truth, I don't like the sound of that.

[hab29RETIRED]

It's not just how many points we are out by , it's also the number of games everyone has got on us and some of the other teams out of the mix(i.e. Washington).

Welcome to Montreal Tomas! Hope you are happy here and regain your form.

Why do people on here insist our season is done when we are only one game out of the playoffs and two out of sixth? You call this a desperate move and then make comments like that? Pretty closed minded I think.

This move has potential of being a steal. Even if Kaberle only helps the PP slightly it is a good move. I was never a fan of Spacek. Last season I was cringing everytime he or Sopel hit the ice. Maybe he regains his Toronto form and we move him for 2 first rounders? WIld hope but yoou never know. If he does regain his form we won big, if not he is no worse than Spacek. IMO.

Something had to happen and at least this is something. It didn't cost us more than a mediocre d-man and I was afraid we would make a move that cost us some youth. As for cap space I will worry about that come year end. As for now we need to do what we have to if we are going to make the playoffs. That raises the question of is the team good enough to go deep if we make it. No matter how bad the season started we have shown that we can beat any team in the league when we are in top form. We have dropped some we should have won against top teams and beat some other wons. In a 7 game series we have shown we stand a good shot against Philly, Boston and Buffalo at the very least. If we met Vancouver in the final I would feel we can take them aswell. Just don't let up after 3 goals!

If you are bent on negative thinking and believe all is lost this year then this is a bad trade for you as there is risk. If you think, as I do, that we will still be playing come May then this is a move that had to happen.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

after sleeping on it i dont think this move is to bad of a deal. sure.... we took on salary but

1. it seems like a guy like kaberle (just like cole) who constantly burned us when playing us can hopefully transform that play to us as cole has.. does anybody know his career stats vs our habs?
   
2. we ARE not Boston! which means this moves got to work!!! thank God
   
3. he really hasnt played as bad as the toronto media has portrayed.. he was playing well enough to command 2 firsts and a conditional 2nd
   
4. i dont think a single guy on this site had something good to say about spacek's play overall since his arrival
   
5. kaberle goes well with ole! "Kaberle ole ole ole!" that's got to mean something ..............
   

[patience is a virtue]

There's a lot of premature ejaculation happening amongst Habs fans these days and this trade put many folks over the top. It's like everyone became a bloody capologist overnight and Kaberle's contract has doomed the Habs for the next three seasons. The vitriol is a bit ridiculous really. Some people's sense of self seems to be link by an emotional umbilical cord with the Habs on a game-by-game basis. Being a fan is all about emotion, but taken to the extreme, it verges on mental illness.

But what really blows me away is the media's reactionary and negative response to the deal. I don't want to get into another defense of Kaberle and PG.

Time will tell whether this gutsy PG move was foolish or brilliant. I'm betting brilliant. The Habs are still just 6 points off the division lead, despite their monumental struggles. And no, one or two games in hand is not a big deal. They have lost a lot of close games and should-have-wons. They could easily be tied with Boston right now - a few bounces this way or that way. That's not an excuse. It's a fact. A fact which tells me that this team can contend and that a small change like the Spac-Kabs deal might tip the balance and set off a nice run towards the playoffs...

Edited December 10, 2011 by patience is a virtue

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

i also think we will be seeing a buyout period in the summer similar to the last lockout period where teams are allowed a chance to buyout contracts at a cut price with zero cap hit...

one can only hope and dream!!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Patience, I can understand fan negativity. But I am always disappointed when professionals whose job it is to analyze hockey produce knee-jerk 'analyses' that just reflect fan opinion back at itself. Hickey at least offers one insight in criticizing this deal, namely that the Habs need a shooter not a passer on the PP. That's a reasonable criticism of the trade in hockey terms. (Then again, we gave up next to nothing to acquire Kaberle, so again, in pure hockey terms, the negativity still doesn't make sense.) But Boone, he just seemed to yell that Kaberle had a bad start!! And he was a Leaf/Bruin!!!! He must be garbage!!!! McGuire, he hates anything the Habs do. Indeed, most analysis has basically boiled down to: bad start, Kaberle must be done. I mean, come on.

I'm more convinced than ever that cautious optimism is the appropriate response to this deal. Yes, there is an element of risk - that's why we got Kaberle for a song. All the potential upside in in the Habs's favour.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

There's a lot of premature ejaculation happening amongst Habs fans these days and this trade put many folks over the top. It's like everyone became a bloody capologist overnight and Kaberle's contract has doomed the Habs for the next three seasons. The vitriol is a bit ridiculous really. Some people's sense of self seems to be link by an emotional umbilical cord with the Habs on a game-by-game basis. Being a fan is all about emotion, but taken to the extreme, it verges on mental illness.

But what really blows me away is the media's reactionary and negative response to the deal. I don't want to get into another defense of Kaberle and PG.

Time will tell whether this gutsy PG move was foolish or brilliant. I'm betting brilliant. The Habs are still just 6 points off the division lead, despite their monumental struggles. And no, one or two games in hand is not a big deal. They have lost a lot of close games and should-have-wons. They could easily be tied with Boston right now - a few bounces this way or that way. That's not an excuse. It's a fact. A fact which tells me that this team can contend and that a small change like the Spac-Kabs deal might tip the balance and set off a nice run towards the playoffs...

very very true!

[Helmethead]

There's a lot of premature ejaculation happening amongst Habs fans these days and this trade put many folks over the top. It's like everyone became a bloody capologist overnight and Kaberle's contract has doomed the Habs for the next three seasons. The vitriol is a bit ridiculous really. Some people's sense of self seems to be link by an emotional umbilical cord with the Habs on a game-by-game basis. Being a fan is all about emotion, but taken to the extreme, it verges on mental illness.

But what really blows me away is the media's reactionary and negative response to the deal. I don't want to get into another defense of Kaberle and PG.

Time will tell whether this gutsy PG move was foolish or brilliant. I'm betting brilliant. The Habs are still just 6 points off the division lead, despite their monumental struggles. And no, one or two games in hand is not a big deal. They have lost a lot of close games and should-have-wons. They could easily be tied with Boston right now - a few bounces this way or that way. That's not an excuse. It's a fact. A fact which tells me that this team can contend and that a small change like the Spac-Kabs deal might tip the balance and set off a nice run towards the playoffs...

Couldn't have said it better myself..

*1

[Colin]

My thoughts.

http://aconcernedfan.com/?p=16

[sakiqc]

My thoughts.

http://aconcernedfan.com/?p=16

Cool blog. Nice to see the return of ACF. You are a very talented writer. Best wishes!

[ForumGhost]

2 assists, plus one on the PP.

[revvvrob]

love the trade - brilliant, shrewd move by PG.

this is in no way a Gomez contract and Montreal is a great fit for Tomas. also, as much as I like to label players on opposing team as 'soft', I am confident Kaberle has something to prove and will do exactly that in hockey-mad Montreal.

worst case scenarios (bury in minors, trade for bag of pucks in off-season) aren't so bad and the best case scenarios (pp qb, top 4 dman for next 2 1/2 yrs) are worth the gamble.

ps. yes, that's right, I don't believe for a moment his salary will become an albatross around the necks of Habs management for the next 2 1/2 yrs to be a possible result in this trade.

[brobin]

The reality is that Kaberle has sucked lately and the Canes were already regretting the contract. The other FACT is that Monteal has sucked on the PP and is rather desperate. Desperate enough to GAMBLE that Kaberle will turn it around coming back to Canada.

Make no mistake, it is a gamble and it might be a disaster, but let's not pretend that there was a sure bet out there waiting to come to the Habs for Spacek.

[patience is a virtue]

The reality is that Kaberle has sucked lately and the Canes were already regretting the contract. The other FACT is that Monteal has sucked on the PP and is rather desperate. Desperate enough to GAMBLE that Kaberle will turn it around coming back to Canada.

Make no mistake, it is a gamble and it might be a disaster, but let's not pretend that there was a sure bet out there waiting to come to the Habs for Spacek.

Yes, it was a gamble - that's why we got him for next to nothing.

No, he has not sucked lately - lately he had started to turn it on in Carolina. Furthermore, the guy had 47 points last season, despite a rough time in Boston.

I really can't see this working out disasterously. As The CC said, it's risky, but almost all upside for Mtl. Worst case scenario status quo .500 until Markov returns and some creativity to dump Kabs in the off season. Best case scenario, PG just created the most fearsome one-two PP punch in the NHL - with Markov, Kaberle, Subban and Emelin... Beaulieu... on the blueline.

[saskhab]

3rd straight 2 point game for Kaberle.

As for the 'coming to camp out of shape/overweight' bit, even Chara said the Bruins came to camp in the middle of their training and weren't caught up when the season started. By November they got it together it seems (and remarkably avoided major injury again).

Maybe Kaberle just similarly needed some time to catch up on the shortened offseason training.

Also, post-first round vs. Montreal his production picked up a lot, but Boston's PP problems (and they're still not great on the PP without Kaberle) were more from being stationary. That's a systemic issue. Kaberle showed tonight that he can be creative and the Habs themselves look for a lot of different options and plenty of shifting of position. And yes, we needed a passer more than a shooter... we had Subban and Weber but we weren't getting them great one-time opportunities.

[hab29RETIRED]

3rd straight 2 point game for Kaberle.

As for the 'coming to camp out of shape/overweight' bit, even Chara said the Bruins came to camp in the middle of their training and weren't caught up when the season started. By November they got it together it seems (and remarkably avoided major injury again).

Maybe Kaberle just similarly needed some time to catch up on the shortened offseason training.

Also, post-first round vs. Montreal his production picked up a lot, but Boston's PP problems (and they're still not great on the PP without Kaberle) were more from being stationary. That's a systemic issue. Kaberle showed tonight that he can be creative and the Habs themselves look for a lot of different options and plenty of shifting of position. And yes, we needed a passer more than a shooter... we had Subban and Weber but we weren't getting them great one-time opportunities.

I hope you are right, because I've rarely seen a GM blast a player he wants to trade the way Rutherford was ripping into Kaberle for the past week or so.

[habs rule]

Patience, I can understand fan negativity. But I am always disappointed when professionals whose job it is to analyze hockey produce knee-jerk 'analyses' that just reflect fan opinion back at itself. Hickey at least offers one insight in criticizing this deal, namely that the Habs need a shooter not a passer on the PP. That's a reasonable criticism of the trade in hockey terms. (Then again, we gave up next to nothing to acquire Kaberle, so again, in pure hockey terms, the negativity still doesn't make sense.) But Boone, he just seemed to yell that Kaberle had a bad start!! And he was a Leaf/Bruin!!!! He must be garbage!!!! McGuire, he hates anything the Habs do. Indeed, most analysis has basically boiled down to: bad start, Kaberle must be done. I mean, come on.

I'm more convinced than ever that cautious optimism is the appropriate response to this deal. Yes, there is an element of risk - that's why we got Kaberle for a song. All the potential upside in in the Habs's favour.

I agree based on the bad start theory then the whole bruins team should have been traded demoted or shot by now, oh sorry they don't live in Montreal.

[BTH]

The reality is that Kaberle has sucked lately and the Canes were already regretting the contract. The other FACT is that Monteal has sucked on the PP and is rather desperate. Desperate enough to GAMBLE that Kaberle will turn it around coming back to Canada.

Make no mistake, it is a gamble and it might be a disaster, but let's not pretend that there was a sure bet out there waiting to come to the Habs for Spacek.

I don't see it as much of a gamble though. The worst case scenario just isn't that bad. So the Canadiens will have a bottom pairing d-man for 4.25M for a couple of years. The trade only looks risky if you stress about the cap implications two years from now.

You know who stresses about the salary cap? LOSERS.

You know who wins the Stanley Cup? Not losers.

That is my motto from now on. Despite all the frenzy over every signing and trade re: players getting overpaid and handcuffing us, I challenge people to name a single player we really wanted to keep that we had to let go of because we couldn't afford him at his market value. There were some (Komisarek, Streit, Wisniewski) that we wanted to keep but that wanted more money than we (almost everyone here) thought they were worth. Some of those decisions might have even been mistakes. There was Halak, who we traded because it wasn't sensible to pay him that much to be our back up (and other reasons). But there was never a case of a core player that we just had to get rid of so that we could keep our other core players.

It happened to other teams (Boston trading Kessel, Philly making all sorts of changes, maybe Buffalo and Ottawa) but only in extreme cases where teams carried several stars earning big money combined with albatross contracts, and their trades generally resulted in good returns consisting of high draft picks and blue chip prospects. By the time Montreal's up-and-coming stars get their market value, these contracts will be coming off the books or easier to move. There's just no sense in stressing over contracts when we have no idea what's going to happen over the next two years. Gauthier will make good trades, bad trades, big contracts will leave, big contracts will come, small contracts will come, small contracts will go, the team will play well, they'll play poorly, individual players will play well, play poorly... The top teams think about the short term without making any obvious sacrifices to their long term plans (e.g. trading Pacioretty for Jagr).

Besides... Kaberle is coming off a 47 point season. It's too early to say he'll never be the player he once was. He's not like Gomez or Theodore, for who it's been several seasons now. He was a top pairing D last season! And currently on a hot streak.