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Kaberle to Montreal


Colin

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Wow, I thought the board was going to be ecstatic about this... (although I admittedly wasn't aware Kaberle was having such a bad season.)

Habs just improved the team now (I'm assuming even a fallen off Kaberle is better than Spacek) while getting younger. There is a silver lining to the fact that this gives us cap troubles: it means they'll almost definitely have to get rid of Gomez. :)

Anyway, I predicted a 2nd for Wiz type deal but this is just as good if not better since we get to increase our chances of making the playoffs without sacrificing any youth.

Good point about Gomez!

The intense negativity to this deal seems just waaay overblown to me. It's all based on invariably deterministic and pessimistic hypotheticals on how this will play out in 2012-13 and beyond. Like I say, look at it in hockey terms, it's hard to say that this is a bad deal, and the potential upside is all in Montreal's favour.

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To be fair, many of us ranted about Price vs Halak. We were right. Halak should have been the starter that year and ended up being the starter. That is very different from wanting Price traded away. It was more about playing the guy who was hot at the time. In the end, Price came back much stronger and much better.

As for Kaberle, it could have been worse. If they traded Emelin for Kaberle, I might have to go torch the Bell Center. I am not keen on the contract, but it is a small gamble. Frankly, signing Markov long term was a much bigger gamble.

Kaberle did not help at all with Boston, neither with Carolina. He is a mistery. I remember that he used to be very good against the Habs. I just hope that he will recover his magic playing in our jersey.

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Good point about Gomez!

The intense negativity to this deal seems just waaay overblown to me. It's all based on invariably deterministic and pessimistic hypotheticals on how this will play out in 2012-13 and beyond. Like I say, look at it in hockey terms, it's hard to say that this is a bad deal, and the potential upside is all in Montreal's favour.

Imagine what the reaction to this deal would have been a year ago! Habs fans were willing to give large packages of picks and prospects for Kaberle and would have been happy to give away Spacek for free...

I feel like if any other team made this trade, would be complaining about why Gauthier won't make a deal like this.

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Imagine what the reaction to this deal would have been a year ago! Habs fans were willing to give large packages of picks and prospects for Kaberle and would have been happy to give away Spacek for free...

I feel like if any other team made this trade, would be complaining about why Gauthier won't make a deal like this.

Talking about Gomez, I believe that he would help the team greatly if he was healthy. Particularly on the PP. There is nobody better than him to carry the puck in the offensive zone.

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Imagine what the reaction to this deal would have been a year ago! Habs fans were willing to give large packages of picks and prospects for Kaberle and would have been happy to give away Spacek for free...

I feel like if any other team made this trade, would be complaining about why Gauthier won't make a deal like this.

Kaberle is playing badly and Spacek was playing well.

Any other year, Spacek for Kaberle is highway robbery. This year, there is reason for concern about trading for another financial anchor, and losing out on better pieces because of that.

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Kaberle is playing badly and Spacek was playing well.

Any other year, Spacek for Kaberle is highway robbery. This year, there is reason for concern about trading for another financial anchor, and losing out on better pieces because of that.

Right, but to be so horrified at the trade as people are? This is a pretty low risk move. It doesn't warrant panic.

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Well, this pretty much addresses my ongoing question about whether the organization wants to win NOW. Clearly, they do, and are willing to give themselves cap headaches going forward if they think they can acquire a player that will help us get better.

I'm not in hysterics over the cap implications. That will fall to next summer to resolve; but I'm pretty sure Gomez will be gone whatever happens. And no, I do not believe that moving Gomez is an impossibility, People are much too fatalistic about bad contracts. Time and again teams have succeeded in liberating themselves of such contracts.

I'm also not in a tizzy over the supposed logjam that will occur on D 'once everyone is healthy.' There is no guarantee that we will EVER have everybody healthy back there. New injuries occur all the time and you can always move out a dude like Weber who (on Commandant's analysis) is redundant in terms of organization depth anyway. Besides, I am a fanatic about the importance of a deep back end, so the more talent we have there the better.

So, if we stop freaking out about the cap hit and the supposed impending log jam, this trade seems like a no-brainer. Yes, Kaberle has struggled since leaving TO. That is why we were able to acquire him for a song. Conversely, unless there is some identifiable reason for why he has struggled - e.g., he is damaged goods - then it's not unreasonable to gamble that he can recover at least some of his old form. The bottom line here is we acquire a guy who has a long track record of running a power play. Such a player will be potentially HUGE for a club whose main problem has been a pathetic PP.

I think the sensible approach here is to wait and see. In pure hockey terms, it's not a gigantic gamble because Kaberle is surely no worse than Spacek. Most importantly, we didn't sacrifice yet another pick. Don't overthink the other stuff.

By trading them to Montreal? :o

I agree with your post. We need to wait and see what impact he does have on our PP. If we start scoring then all will be well and the cap issue will be dealt with next season.

If he doesn't help then...

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Here's a further thought than nobody has mentioned. Allowing the team to meltdown and enter 'rebuilding' mode - as so many fans want us to do - could also prove to be highly toxic when it comes to getting AK, Gorges, Price and Subban to sign on here long-term. Players like to believe they're part of an operation that both wants to win and can win. Going into fire-sale mode could have proven a terrible strategy if the goal is to lock those guys up. From that perspective, this deal conveys exactly the right message about the Montreal Canadiens: we want to win now and will do whatever we can to make that happen.

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I'm enjoying the positive vibe created by BTH and The Cucumber. However, did you both just decide that Gomez is suddenly easy to get rid of? Just because you say so? As if the team can now elect to dump the leagues worst contract. Ya, we got Kaberle, so teams are going to feel compelled to take that abortion off our hands. C'mon, doesn't work that way.

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I'm glad hab29 brought this up, cause I think this is actually the only thing that really bothers me about the trade. Is Kaberle a winner? Is he even much of a competitor? It really doesn't seem like it. He has a Stanley Cup... but did he help the Bruins or not hurt the Bruins?

That's why this trade feels so weird... he's not bringing in an attitude that turns a season around.

Hopefully his talent shows up, or this will hurt.

I think you are bang on here. Cap solutions can be found if Kabs is a bust. But you can't change basic personality traits. People say he isn't intense, not a winner, has a bad attitude, etc. I don't know, but I do admire the core group of hard working winners BG and PG have focused on gathering as a team. They are fighters inside, winners, and you know all these lost games that could have been won are just killing them. They haven't given up. I hope PG has just made the bold move that will help them win, and that there are enough positive, hardworking attitudes on the team to raise Kaberle's boat.

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The habs are hovering at .500 with one of the worst PP in the league, do you notice when the habs lose it's by 1 goal, can you imagine if all those close goal games were supplimented by I don't know a PP goal here or there? The habs are riding a fine line between success and failure and this year it has been the PP which has them tilted towards failure.

You also need to take in account the 2+ goals leads we've been blowing, can think of 4 off the top of my head, couple of the 1 goal losses were blown leads. While I will agree a timely PP goal may turn it around, the PP isn't the only problem with the team, so I wouldn't expect this to make that much of a difference in our standings.

I would like to know if Kaberle has a NMC or what all of the options will be for him in the future. If cap space is needed, and he is in fact untradeable, can we bury him in the minors.

Kaberle has no form of NTC or NMC currently.

Edited by Turd Burglar
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I agree with BTH,

This is Good News for MTL.

A guy with serious PP experience.

Media friendly even when portrayed as a heel.

Loads of talent, and what seems to be a good head on his shoulders under despite all the negativity he's endured the last couple of years. He's the perfect fit for our team... and a bargain at that!

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I'm enjoying the positive vibe created by BTH and The Cucumber. However, did you both just decide that Gomez is suddenly easy to get rid of? Just because you say so? As if the team can now elect to dump the leagues worst contract. Ya, we got Kaberle, so teams are going to feel compelled to take that abortion off our hands. C'mon, doesn't work that way.

Hey, all I'm saying is that next year is next year, and let's wait and see before we conclude - definitively and with dogmatic, absolute certainty - that we have ZERO options regarding Gomez (or for that matter, Kaberle) and that therefore it is GUARANTEED that we won't be able to re-sign our young core. My message is basically: this is a reasonable and potentially very helpful deal for 2011-12. As for what lies beyond that, let's just chill a little bit.

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In todays NHL you can miss the playoffs one year and contend the next - if you are smart. By recognizing we are pretty much done this year you can build for next year. However by adding another stupid contract is more toxic by showing players you are also shooting yourself in the other foot for next year, after already having shot yourself in the foot this year. Kaberle is a desperation move. The hans picked up a career loser on the downside of his career. He is a guy not a top two dman like a Shea weber who is going to pick up the team.

Kaberle is a fat, lazy, soft dman who may be bigger then Diaz, but will probably be softer. He is offensively skilled, but has never been able to help his team win. He was content with playing on a losing leafs team and finishing off his career as a loser. Lucked out going to Boston- against his wishes - Boston had been trying to get him for 2 1/2 years. If I'm Subban or price, I wouldn't be to thrilled picking up a soft, out of shape, lazy, loser.

Here's a further thought than nobody has mentioned. Allowing the team to meltdown and enter 'rebuilding' mode - as so many fans want us to do - could also prove to be highly toxic when it comes to getting AK, Gorges, Price and Subban to sign on here long-term. Players like to believe they're part of an operation that both wants to win and can win. Going into fire-sale mode could have proven a terrible strategy if the goal is to lock those guys up. From that perspective, this deal conveys exactly the right message about the Montreal Canadiens: we want to win now and will do whatever we can to make that happen.

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Hey, all I'm saying is that next year is next year, and let's wait and see before we conclude - definitively and with dogmatic, absolute certainty - that we have ZERO options regarding Gomez (or for that matter, Kaberle) and that therefore it is GUARANTEED that we won't be able to re-sign our young core. My message is basically: this is a reasonable and potentially very helpful deal for 2011-12. As for what lies beyond that, let's just chill a little bit.

= the voice of reason loud and clear.

however, it is important to note that PG has not only proved to us and the team that he's in it to win, but that desperation has indeed set in. if Kabs is a bust and the team continues to struggle like this, PG may have just made his last big move and the cap situation may be someone else's mess to work out next summer... And that would suck, cause I love what he's done so far, but he had to make a move. i can't think of a much better one than this.

Edited by patience is a virtue
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In todays NHL you can miss the playoffs one year and contend the next - if you are smart. By recognizing we are pretty much done this year you can build for next year. However by adding another stupid contract is more toxic by showing players you are also shooting yourself in the other foot for next year, after already having shot yourself in the foot this year. Kaberle is a desperation move. The hans picked up a career loser on the downside of his career. He is a guy not a top two dman like a Shea weber who is going to pick up the team.

Kaberle is a fat, lazy, soft dman who may be bigger then Diaz, but will probably be softer. He is offensively skilled, but has never been able to help his team win. He was content with playing on a losing leafs team and finishing off his career as a loser. Lucked out going to Boston- against his wishes - Boston had been trying to get him for 2 1/2 years. If I'm Subban or price, I wouldn't be to thrilled picking up a soft, out of shape, lazy, loser.

Well, we'll see. As to your first point, I don't believe that players see things that way. It took years for Montreal to shed its image as a 'loser' and start to attract UFAs - even after we had clearly begun to rebuild with promising young talent, players still stayed away; it was only after we started making the playoffs regularly that we became an attractive destination. I really doubt that players pay a whole lot of attention to the future cap situation of team X or Y. I think they look at whether that team is proactive about winning and has a quality core. If we look like a team in meltdown mode, we invite a flight of UFAs and disinterest in locking up from RFAs. This is not an iron law, of course, but it is a genuine danger.

Habs29, you appear to have a lot of first-hand personal knowledge about what kind of human being Kaberle is, not to mention his physical fitness. Never having met the man I am less confident that you in attesting to his work ethic or his body fat ratios. He is certainly 'soft' in the sense of not being a physical player. I don't think we acquired him in order to toughen up back there. You do mention that he is 'offensively skilled.' Since the power play is far and away the main reason why we are out of a playoff spot, it stands to reason that we should at least be cautiously happy to acquire an offensively skilled defenceman with a proven track record on the PP who, even in a supposedly horrible season last year, got 47 points (!).

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The inner workings, the stuff we don't know about fascinate me. Could you imagine if coach Muller went to his GM and said "I've seen enough, get rid of this bum". And then he agreed that Spacek is a serviceable replacement!

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The inner workings, the stuff we don't know about fascinate me. Could you imagine if coach Muller went to his GM and said "I've seen enough, get rid of this bum". And then he agreed that Spacek is a serviceable replacement!

Ha ha, there can be no doubt Muller approved of the acquisition of Spacek.

That 'bum' has two points in each of his last two games, so presumably even Muller was able to find some kinda value in the guy.

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Ha ha, there can be no doubt Muller approved of the acquisition of Spacek.

That 'bum' has two points in each of his last two games, so presumably even Muller was able to find some kinda value in the guy.

Would you kindly take your rational, well thought out analysis elsewhere. We're to busy getting fitted for a straight jacket.
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One issue I have is who will be the big shot? Kaberle always sets up on the left side and feeds a left handed pointman at the right point. How is he on the right side?

AK46 is my answer. Emelin might get a shot at it too.

But I am more interested in the room he creates down low by working the puck adeptly from up high.

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You guys, there is going to be a reduction in the player's share of the cap next season under a new CBA, and along with that there will be another amnesty buyout period just like what is happening in the NBA right now and what happened in 2005 when guys like Bill Guerin were bought out of their ridiculous contracts. There may even be a modest rollback on existing salaries.

Trading for future years isn't that big of a concern for a deep-pocketed franchise at this point. If Kaberle helps Molson's team get to the playoffs and costs the hockey department virtually nothing (Kaberle replaces Spacek's roster spot), I'm sure he'll have no trouble signing off on a buyout without cap implications. Or he could even be traded for another asset going forward.

Is there risk? Yes. But there's a lot of risk in giving up on an unhealthy team that is still within a couple points of the playoffs before Christmas. The PP has lacked a passer at the back end, it has a couple of decent shooters. Well, we've got a guy with a great track record on the PP for passing. If he can step into the lineup on the 3rd pair (like Spacek was) and step in with top PP minutes and get Gorges out of there I think we should be quite happy.

A LOT can change for next year. We know it won't be same old, same old.

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In the interest of continuing the debate....on local radio, Pierre McGuire just listed about 5 teams in dire need of help on defense. And that none expressed any interest in Kaberle. The reason? The contract. He said we won't be able to move it. He also seems to have doubts about his effectiveness on the power play. As he was brought in to help Boston's and didn't in any way, shape or form. So, we might have another bad contract on our hands, with young stars due for big raises.

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