Josh Gorges signed for 6 seasons

[Trizzak]

My only concern is that Gorges is at his worst when he tries to do too much.

If he thinks he needs to do more to meet his contract, then he'll get worse (ala Komisarek)

[KamalPanesar]

Great signing, if slightly on the high side dollar-wise. Still, the Habs had to lock up Gorges and clearly made the right call here.

I think the next player who gets signed (and it WILL be before the end of the season) is Price. Price's agent told Gauthier he wants the deal done before the end of the season so, if Gorges is signed now, I think Price will be next.

[Habsy]

It's a fair amount, in my opinion. Let's not forget that we have to overpay slightly, as we're the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America. Cammalleri and Gionta were also overpaid.

[KamalPanesar]

It's a fair amount, in my opinion. Let's not forget that we have to overpay slightly, as we're the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America. Cammalleri and Gionta were also overpaid.

True, except Gorges agent said the Habs could have signed him for cheaper this summer if they had offered him more term. Still, at a 3.9 per average, it's a minor overpay.

[JMMR]

Love the signing love that it is long term.

Hope it never burns the habs.

[KamalPanesar]

Love the signing love that it is long term.

Hope it never burns the habs.

Unless his knee gives out or he suffers some other catastrophic injury, I can't see this one burning the Habs. Gionta, Gomez, Cammy, Kaberle and Markov could/are burning them, but not Gorges.This guy's solid.

[illWill]

Love the signing love that it is long term.

Hope it never burns the habs.

Perhaps towards the end of the deal it may become a burden. Shot-blocking type of players generally wear down earlier than those that don't. Josh is a warrior so let's hope that it doesn't happen within this contract.

[gern]

My only concern is that Gorges is at his worst when he tries to do too much.

If he thinks he needs to do more to meet his contract, then he'll get worse (ala Komisarek)

or maybe he'll think he can do less cause he's already set up for years? heh.

[brobin]

It isn't bargain at the moment, but 6 years is a long time. It will seem like a bargain in a couple of years as salaries keep climbing. As a defensive minute eater who is still young, this is the kind of stability on the back end we need. Subban as our offensive guy. Emelin as our feared guy. In a few years, big Tinordi to be the shut down gorilla (Chara without the offensive skills). If Markov can still play, we have great D core for some time. Many are young, so there will be ups and downs, but if we are patient these guys could be very good.

I hope Kaberle can be good enough that we can dump him at the trade deadline for some team making the push for the cup. We won't need him if Markov can play. Maybe even Gill can be traded to a contender for a decent pick or prospect.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It isn't bargain at the moment, but 6 years is a long time. It will seem like a bargain in a couple of years as salaries keep climbing. As a defensive minute eater who is still young, this is the kind of stability on the back end we need. Subban as our offensive guy. Emelin as our feared guy. In a few years, big Tinordi to be the shut down gorilla (Chara without the offensive skills). If Markov can still play, we have great D core for some time. Many are young, so there will be ups and downs, but if we are patient these guys could be very good.

I hope Kaberle can be good enough that we can dump him at the trade deadline for some team making the push for the cup. We won't need him if Markov can play. Maybe even Gill can be traded to a contender for a decent pick or prospect.

Good analysis, especially the second sentence. I can see a maturing Subban, Emelin, a veteran Gorges, Diaz, and eventually Tinordi grounding a pretty solid D over the next 4-5 years. (If Tinordi is to be a big element, we'd better give it about 4 years). Markov will likely be out of the picture by then so I'm not sure your equation works.

Let's think two years from now:

Subban - Emelin - Diaz - Gorges

Looking at this, Kaberle could prove to be a significant ingredient, unless Weber somehow emerges as a major puck-moving defenceman:

Subban - Kaberle - Gorges - Emelin - Diaz

Much better. Even assuming Subban becomes all that he can be, while that looks to be a good defence corps, Markov is STILL a major absence. We'd need another higher-end defenceman to be Cup-worthy IMHO. But what I'm saying here is that Kaberle could prove to be an important asset fin keeping us competitive as Subban matures and Tinordi learns how to be a pro. I just don't understand fans' hurry to throw this 50-point defenceman under a bus.

[brobin]

Good analysis, especially the second sentence. I can see a maturing Subban, Emelin, a veteran Gorges, Diaz, and eventually Tinordi grounding a pretty solid D over the next 4-5 years. (If Tinordi is to be a big element, we'd better give it about 4 years). Markov will likely be out of the picture by then so I'm not sure your equation works.

Let's think two years from now:

Subban - Emelin - Diaz - Gorges

Looking at this, Kaberle could prove to be a significant ingredient, unless Weber somehow emerges as a major puck-moving defenceman:

Subban - Kaberle - Gorges - Emelin - Diaz

Much better. Even assuming Subban becomes all that he can be, while that looks to be a good defence corps, Markov is STILL a major absence. We'd need another higher-end defenceman to be Cup-worthy IMHO. But what I'm saying here is that Kaberle could prove to be an important asset fin keeping us competitive as Subban matures and Tinordi learns how to be a pro. I just don't understand fans' hurry to throw this 50-point defenceman under a bus.

Markov or Kaberle.. it really depends on Markov. If he can play, we don't need Kaberle. If he can't, Kaberle is probably need for while until subban matures more.

I have few doubts about Subban. He has excelled every where he has gone. He is in his sophmore year and Markov is injured. For a kid playing the most minutes on the team, people sure are hard on him. If we didn't have Subban, who would be eating those minutes? I think people need to cut him some slack and be patient. This is s shit team in front of him and he tries to do too much. He is being asked to be our best Defensive guy with Gorges, then our best offensive guy with Kaberle.. some one show me the 2nd year defensemen in the league pulling that kind of weight on a team....

Tinordi will be a few years, I see him coming in at the tail end of the Gorges contact and maybe taking over for Gorges as the Defensive specialist.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Markov or Kaberle.. it really depends on Markov. If he can play, we don't need Kaberle. If he can't, Kaberle is probably need for while until subban matures more.

I have few doubts about Subban. He has excelled every where he has gone. He is in his sophmore year and Markov is injured. For a kid playing the most minutes on the team, people sure are hard on him. If we didn't have Subban, who would be eating those minutes? I think people need to cut him some slack and be patient. This is s shit team in front of him and he tries to do too much. He is being asked to be our best Defensive guy with Gorges, then our best offensive guy with Kaberle.. some one show me the 2nd year defensemen in the league pulling that kind of weight on a team....

Tinordi will be a few years, I see him coming in at the tail end of the Gorges contact and maybe taking over for Gorges as the Defensive specialist.

It's fun to speculate on a D-corps in 5 years with Subban as veteran NHL all-star in his prime, Bealieu as upstart emerging star, Tinrodi as bruising shut-down dude, Gorges as elder statesman, Emelin as seasoned stay-at-home stabilizer, and maybe Diaz as helpful #5 guy. Of course much will change in the interim.

No question that a healthy Markov is three times the player Kaberle is. Nonetheless, in an ideal world I'd have both - just as I said of Wisniewski. Whether that's cap-possible, or whether Markov will ever again play and play at the level we expect, these are other matters. But without #79 we should keep Kaberle for sure.

[hab29RETIRED]

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kaberle. I just posted a lengthy post in the rumours thread why I don't want him.

Id also that to that eithe the point that it makes no sense to be paying a guy $4.2m just for the PP. Kaberle cannot play and should not be playing on a regular basis 5 on 5. He is horrible, just as gill is horrible 5 on 5, but even he looks like Lidstrom compared to Kaberle in his own end.

It's fun to speculate on a D-corps in 5 years with Subban as veteran NHL all-star in his prime, Bealieu as upstart emerging star, Tinrodi as bruising shut-down dude, Gorges as elder statesman, Emelin as seasoned stay-at-home stabilizer, and maybe Diaz as helpful #5 guy. Of course much will change in the interim.

No question that a healthy Markov is three times the player Kaberle is. Nonetheless, in an ideal world I'd have both - just as I said of Wisniewski. Whether that's cap-possible, or whether Markov will ever again play and play at the level we expect, these are other matters. But without #79 we should keep Kaberle for sure.

[DON]

Kaberle is a bit scary defensively, not near as bad as MAB and is fine as a 3rd pairing, if he can be shipped out then i am fine with that, if they keep him that is OK. Habs need offense, the bottom line, no matter where it comes from and he is getting points and the PP looks a bit better.

Not sure why anyone has issue with me annointing Gorges as future captain? Gionta is a hardworking guy for sure but the team still seems leaderless when he is playing or not and who knows if he will even finish the season with Habs?

Tinordi will most likely split his time between AHL and Habs next year and likely replace Gill, which he probably could right now and Gill is another that may not last the year in Habland?

I would also assume either Pateryn, Dietz and/or Ellis will make the grade in a couple years and add another Gorges-type defensive d-man to the mix; Nygren and Beaulieu are 2 stricly offensive d-men who need to learn some defense at the AHL level a la Subban before ever making the jump.

All in all, i dont see any weakness in long term d-core, it is still up front that is in need of a couple highly skilled draft picks. Bournival, Kristo and Gallagher all look OK, but likely not top flight scorers like a Spezza/Hossa. Too bad this draft class is strictly loaded with super looking d-men and Euro forwards. But if Habs remain with 6th pick there are some sweet choices, even if they have to take another d-man like Trouba, Murray or Dumba, cant go wrong.

Interesting that Gauthier said both Subban and Price will be signed for sure and that have no fear there is $$ to sign both long term and moreso that he didnt say no outright when, John Lui (i think) asked if he may blow the team up, now that they need to win 2/3 of remaining games just to make playoffs.

[Commandant]

Good value. I had 4 million as my limit for Gorges so I don't mind the price.

I worry about 6 years though, with the number of shot blocks its a lot of punishment, and the big time shot blockers in the league seem to go downhill very fast when the tide turns.

Would've been happier with 4, but 6 is probably the price for keeping the hit under 4 mill.

[Commandant]

Great signing, if slightly on the high side dollar-wise. Still, the Habs had to lock up Gorges and clearly made the right call here.

I think the next player who gets signed (and it WILL be before the end of the season) is Price. Price's agent told Gauthier he wants the deal done before the end of the season so, if Gorges is signed now, I think Price will be next.

IMO; The next guys who should be dealt with are Moen and Kostitsyn (not necessarily in that order). They are pending UFAs and decisions need to be made before the trade deadline.

Plenty of time between the deadline and end of the season to work on Price.

[Commandant]

Kaberle is a bit scary defensively, not near as bad as MAB and is fine as a 3rd pairing, if he can be shipped out then i am fine with that, if they keep him that is OK. Habs need offense, the bottom line, no matter where it comes from and he is getting points and the PP looks a bit better.

Not sure why anyone has issue with me annointing Gorges as future captain? Gionta is a hardworking guy for sure but the team still seems leaderless when he is playing or not and who knows if he will even finish the season with Habs?

Tinordi will most likely split his time between AHL and Habs next year and likely replace Gill, which he probably could right now and Gill is another that may not last the year in Habland?

I would also assume either Pateryn, Dietz and/or Ellis will make the grade in a couple years and add another Gorges-type defensive d-man to the mix; Nygren and Beaulieu are 2 stricly offensive d-men who need to learn some defense at the AHL level a la Subban before ever making the jump.

All in all, i dont see any weakness in long term d-core, it is still up front that is in need of a couple highly skilled draft picks. Bournival, Kristo and Gallagher all look OK, but likely not top flight scorers like a Spezza/Hossa. Too bad this draft class is strictly loaded with super looking d-men and Euro forwards. But if Habs remain with 6th pick there are some sweet choices, even if they have to take another d-man like Trouba, Murray or Dumba, cant go wrong.

Interesting that Gauthier said both Subban and Price will be signed for sure and that have no fear there is $$ to sign both long term and moreso that he didnt say no outright when, John Lui (i think) asked if he may blow the team up, now that they need to win 2/3 of remaining games just to make playoffs.

I agree that both Tinordi and Beaulieu need AHL time, but I'm much higher on Beaulieu's defensive game than you are, like we talked about in the WJC thread.

He reminds me a lot of Subban. I don't think he'll be a defensive liability. He needs time, but his game is getting there.

Nygren definetely needs defensive work.

[dlbalr]

The deal has a salary and cap hit of $3.9 mil each year, however, there was a small signing bonus (750k) included in his 12-13 salary.

[DON]

I agree that both Tinordi and Beaulieu need AHL time, but I'm much higher on Beaulieu's defensive game than you are, like we talked about in the WJC thread.

He reminds me a lot of Subban. I don't think he'll be a defensive liability. He needs time, but his game is getting there.

Nygren definetely needs defensive work.

Again i dont disagree that Beaulieu will be a great addition to a team that is mired near bottom of league in scoring year after year. And now with a strictly defensive guy like Gorges locked up and others like Tinordi and Yemelin, the Habs should be able to have at least 3 offensive guys who are not afraid to rush the puck.

This is off-topic but;

I dont think Beaulieu's development will be much different than a Del Zotto, Karlsson, Justin Faulk or Cam Fowler who are all promising young d-men, but had/have struggled to hold their own defensively. A perfect example; Del Zotto is now leading his team with a +25 after being a -20 as a rookie (sure on a better team now but still). Even Diaz and Yemelin (and Subban) have a rookie-like brain cramp almost every game, but you know their decision making should only get better over time with a bit of coaching and experiance.

[Commandant]

I dont think Beaulieu's development will be much different than a Del Zotto, Karlsson, Justin Faulk or Cam Fowler who are all promising young d-men, but had/have struggled to hold their own defensively. A perfect example; Del Zotto is now leading his team with a +25 after being a -20 as a rookie (sure on a better team now but still). Even Diaz and Yemelin (and Subban) have a rookie-like brain cramp almost every game, but you know their decision making should only get better over time with a bit of coaching and experiance.

I can agree on that. He definitely is prone to rookie-like brain cramps even in his fourth season of junior, and I think he'll be like any defenceman and have them when he first gets to the NHL.

Tinordi will have a roller coaster like ride in the NHL when he gets here too.

Its the nature of young D and to be expected.

I just thought you meant that he'll never be good defensively.... I think he needs time and there will be growing pains along the way, but should eventually grow into a solid defensive player.

Hopefully Subban, Emelin, and Diaz continue to grow and have less defensive errors as they become the core of the team with Markov and Gorges, and then eventually insulate the Beaulieu's and Tinordis who come along next through their early years of brain cramps.

Eventually Subban becomes good enough to replace the role Markov should be providing for us, a true #1 Dman (Subban isn't there yet) and Beaulieu and Tinordi replace what Subban is currently bringing (pretty solid play with occasional brain cramps).

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Young defencemen generally take 4-5 years to become fully formed. This is why any expectation that any of these junior d-men are going to be key cogs in a Cup run in the short to medium term is probably delusional...and why we need to be careful about dumping Kaberle if we want to compete over the next 2-3 years.

[bbp]

Young defencemen generally take 4-5 years to become fully formed. This is why any expectation that any of these junior d-men are going to be key cogs in a Cup run in the short to medium term is probably delusional...and why we need to be careful about dumping Kaberle if we want to compete over the next 2-3 years.

I guess this beggs the question if we want to be competitive or do we want to pull a minor version of Pittsburgh or Edmonton

[JoeLassister]

I guess this beggs the question if we want to be competitive or do we want to pull a minor version of Pittsburgh or Edmonton

Minor version like "not coming as close as them to move the team out of town" ?

[bbp]

Minor version like "not coming as close as them to move the team out of town" ?

That and not having as many years in the basement..

[Commandant]

I guess this beggs the question if we want to be competitive or do we want to pull a minor version of Pittsburgh or Edmonton

I think with Kaberle and Markov under contract for 2 more seasons filling in the gaps, you can pull off a Philly style rebuild, where they plug in until the next group is ready, which we all admit will take some time.

In adding Markov late this year, this will be very similar to what Philly was able to do in adding Timmonen. Its bringing a stablilizing #1 Dman into the situation, since he's a guy who hasn't played much in two years.