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Cammalleri Traded to Calgary


Commandant

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Cammalleri's goal totals by year:

2003 - LA - 28 games - 5 goals

2004 - LA - 31 - 9

2005 - minors

2006 - LA - 80 - 26

2007 - LA - 81 - 34

2008 - LA - 63 - 19

2009 - CG - 81 - 39

2010 - ML - 65 - 26

2011 - ML - 67 - 19

2012 - ML - 38 - 9

Looking at those numbers, is it reasonable to suggest the possibility that Gainey paid $6M/year for a guy who looks more like a 25-30-goal man who can, on occasion, break out when playing with, say, Iginla, but who is completely one-dimensional? Moreover:

1. Is Cammi, on balance, worth the same amount as, say, either of the Sedin sisters (who, it must be noted, sport facial hair in abject defiance of their obvious gender)? Yes, I know they have the coveted home-town discount, but adding even a million or so more to their contracts, is Cammi still that close?

2. Is this league so blinded by a season closing in on 40 goals that they insist anyone who has any capability to score is suddenly worth that kind of money? Even despite not having done it for more than one season? Would Bobby Carpenter earn $6M in today's NHL based on his one 50-goal season (sorry to the youth for that question - do your research on that one, look it up)?

3. Was Cammi given all the tools to succeed in Montreal, or are his numbers deceiving? For instance, under Martin's system, do you expect any goalscoring hero to pot 5-10 less per year, for instance? This question in particular has been bandied around a lot lately, and I'm not sure I'm on board - Cammi managed to be the leading goal guy in the playoffs under Martin.

I'm not trying to come to any conclusions here. I'm merely taking a look at those numbers and am asking some, I believe, pertinent questions. There's a lot of talk we lost this trade, but I think a perfectly reasonable counter-opinion can say the Habs just rid themselves of an overpaid mouth. Again, not my personal opinion, but I hope the reader can see how this conclusion can be reached. Cammi was given a salary based, it seems, on a significant amount of hope rather than, say, a history of solid 40-ish numbers. He was subsequently traded for an arguably more consistent 25+ goal guy who has a little more to his game than just a shot.

Spin. Gotta love it.

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My only question is why this trade didn't happen a game later. That way Bourque's suspension wouldn't have one game left and we would get one more game out of Cammy. Since the trade has been in the works for 2 months one game wouldn't of really mattered.

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Cammalleri's goal totals by year:

2003 - LA - 28 games - 5 goals

2004 - LA - 31 - 9

2005 - minors

2006 - LA - 80 - 26

2007 - LA - 81 - 34

2008 - LA - 63 - 19

2009 - CG - 81 - 39

2010 - ML - 65 - 26

2011 - ML - 67 - 19

2012 - ML - 38 - 9

Looking at those numbers, is it reasonable to suggest the possibility that Gainey paid $6M/year for a guy who looks more like a 25-30-goal man who can, on occasion, break out when playing with, say, Iginla, but who is completely one-dimensional? Moreover:

1. Is Cammi, on balance, worth the same amount as, say, either of the Sedin sisters (who, it must be noted, sport facial hair in abject defiance of their obvious gender)? Yes, I know they have the coveted home-town discount, but adding even a million or so more to their contracts, is Cammi still that close?

2. Is this league so blinded by a season closing in on 40 goals that they insist anyone who has any capability to score is suddenly worth that kind of money? Even despite not having done it for more than one season? Would Bobby Carpenter earn $6M in today's NHL based on his one 50-goal season (sorry to the youth for that question - do your research on that one, look it up)?

3. Was Cammi given all the tools to succeed in Montreal, or are his numbers deceiving? For instance, under Martin's system, do you expect any goalscoring hero to pot 5-10 less per year, for instance? This question in particular has been bandied around a lot lately, and I'm not sure I'm on board - Cammi managed to be the leading goal guy in the playoffs under Martin.

I'm not trying to come to any conclusions here. I'm merely taking a look at those numbers and am asking some, I believe, pertinent questions. There's a lot of talk we lost this trade, but I think a perfectly reasonable counter-opinion can say the Habs just rid themselves of an overpaid mouth. Again, not my personal opinion, but I hope the reader can see how this conclusion can be reached. Cammi was given a salary based, it seems, on a significant amount of hope rather than, say, a history of solid 40-ish numbers. He was subsequently traded for an arguably more consistent 25+ goal guy who has a little more to his game than just a shot.

Spin. Gotta love it.

After reading all 12 pages of this topic (which I think we've all exhausted), I believe this to be the case. We wanted a 40-goal scorer, but we got a 25-goal scorer instead for $6M/year. I really liked Cammalleri but I know that trades in hockey are inevitable. If we were going to get rid of one "bad" contract, then Cammalleri's was the easiest to move.

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One thing that CC i think brought up, but kind of got lost in the thread is that Cammy is a PP specialist with a great one timer, who unfortunately was only able to play about 20 games with Markov in 3 years.

Markovs 40 games of health in 2010 were at the same time Cammy went down with the sprained knee.

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One thing that CC i think brought up, but kind of got lost in the thread is that Cammy is a PP specialist with a great one timer, who unfortunately was only able to play about 20 games with Markov in 3 years.

Markovs 40 games of health in 2010 were at the same time Cammy went down with the sprained knee.

I think The PP was in the top 5 by the end of the year both years Cammie was with the habs. I don't really buy the Markov spin to his decline. The streakieness of Plek and the fact that Plek gets so many defensive assignments may have impacted his scoring. So lack of a good number one centre.

I would be curious to see how many points Cammie got in connunction with Wiz. His departure has had a massive impact, and it's safe to say that CC was 100% correct with his fears of the loss of the Wiz. I really believe that the only thing that changed this year was that we relied on rookie defense too much with the loss of Hammer and Wiz and the power play fell into the abyss. Reverse those two decisions and this meltdown doesn't happen. We go on believing this team can contend until they are shutdown by teams which box them out and don't allow the midgets in front of the net. The refs put away the whistle because it's the playoffs and because obviously the midget fell down because he is so tiny. We move to the next year and dominate the power play and continue the cycle again. I am glad this meltdown happened. Not so much some of the wierd timing by PG. That has to hurt the organizations credibility if it's allowed to continue. But I am glad that the cycle of mediocrity Has been broken. This team has done a few things consistently. Maintain one of the best power plays in the league and ride strong goaltending. 5 on 5 wins cups. I am glad Cammie is gone and look forward to the next midget going bye bye.

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really? a fax? in 2012? hockey is our pass-time, hockey is a GMs livelihood. I don't believe for a millisecond GMs didn't know Cami was available. all they are doing is either proving THEIR incompetence or (more likely) using that defense to explain why they didn't either make an offer for Cami or why they were unsuccessful at landing Cami themselves.

Like many have suggested already - it was probably a GM from one of the 7 teams that Cami wouldn't agree to be moved to. Habs29, bless his soul, is using any fuel he can find to keep his fire going. Heck, he's going back 15 years (where we had a different owner, president, gm, coach and players) to pull up dead horses to beat on :P I don't know how you can indict the management when the entire organization is run by completely different people?

True, PG has given up a few picks, but that's what it takes when you're picking up a 1) James Wiz type players, or 2) buying rentals when your 4th line/defense is so terribly depleted from injury that you have no other choice if you have any intention of winning a game in the playoffs. Other than the 2 and 5 for Wiz, it's been a 4th, some 5ths and a 7th. Hardly the picks used as building blocks for your future (shush you Gallagher fans!).

YES absolutely we could have signed Wiz for Kaberle money - well maybe. Maybe PG tried. Do we know for sure? The Wiz was already tearing it up with the Isles (with the exception of his +/-), so i'm pretty sure his agent was ready to hold off for the bigger pay day as the Habs ran their PP to the top of the league. Plus, the Wiz was a stopgap. We didn't intend to keep him with Markov waiting to return. And THAT is the reason why we have Kabby in the first place! He wasn't there to replace the Wiz that we didn't sign in the off-season, he was picked up to replace the Markov who didn't end up being ready the following season in December.

Laps was traded for a 5th that got us Paul Mara, and Brett Festerling which got us Drew MacIntyre who did very well for us in the Hammer. And even he was shipped around afterwards less than 20 games later. D'agostini? He was hot for about 5 games in Montreal and then did absolutely nothing for the other 95 games over 2 seasons. He'll maybe hit 30 pts this year. He was more of a one-trick pony than Ryder, except he didn't pot 30 a year for us. Fatty Latendresse? Who's played 76 games in 3 season with Minny? The guy is so outta shape that he's been injured time and time again (although the concussion he has now probably isn't related).

PG appears to not be giving up on this year. Perhaps he didn't want to wait for us to continue losing until the trade deadline before making changes. Changes that could possibly get us to that 8th seed. Maybe if we make the playoffs, get Molson a few extra million for those minimum 2 home games, then he'll have enough pocket change to justify sending Gomer to the minors - which makes more cap sense than buying that albatross contract out and suffering with the hit for even more years. I'm telling you, there is always a twisted method to the madness of each GM. Except Milbury and Houle. That was just madness and no method. :lol:

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Like many have suggested already - it was probably a GM from one of the 7 teams that Cami wouldn't agree to be moved to. Habs29, bless his soul, is using any fuel he can find to keep his fire going. Heck, he's going back 15 years (where we had a different owner, president, gm, coach and players) to pull up dead horses to beat on :P I don't know how you can indict the management when the entire organization is run by completely different people?

True, PG has given up a few picks, but that's what it takes when you're picking up a 1) James Wiz type players, or 2) buying rentals when your 4th line/defense is so terribly depleted from injury that you have no other choice if you have any intention of winning a game in the playoffs. Other than the 2 and 5 for Wiz, it's been a 4th, some 5ths and a 7th. Hardly the picks used as building blocks for your future (shush you Gallagher fans!).

YES absolutely we could have signed Wiz for Kaberle money - well maybe. Maybe PG tried. Do we know for sure? The Wiz was already tearing it up with the Isles (with the exception of his +/-), so i'm pretty sure his agent was ready to hold off for the bigger pay day as the Habs ran their PP to the top of the league. Plus, the Wiz was a stopgap. We didn't intend to keep him with Markov waiting to return. And THAT is the reason why we have Kabby in the first place! He wasn't there to replace the Wiz that we didn't sign in the off-season, he was picked up to replace the Markov who didn't end up being ready the following season in December.

Laps was traded for a 5th that got us Paul Mara, and Brett Festerling which got us Drew MacIntyre who did very well for us in the Hammer. And even he was shipped around afterwards less than 20 games later. D'agostini? He was hot for about 5 games in Montreal and then did absolutely nothing for the other 95 games over 2 seasons. He'll maybe hit 30 pts this year. He was more of a one-trick pony than Ryder, except he didn't pot 30 a year for us. Fatty Latendresse? Who's played 76 games in 3 season with Minny? The guy is so outta shape that he's been injured time and time again (although the concussion he has now probably isn't related).

PG appears to not be giving up on this year. Perhaps he didn't want to wait for us to continue losing until the trade deadline before making changes. Changes that could possibly get us to that 8th seed. Maybe if we make the playoffs, get Molson a few extra million for those minimum 2 home games, then he'll have enough pocket change to justify sending Gomer to the minors - which makes more cap sense than buying that albatross contract out and suffering with the hit for even more years. I'm telling you, there is always a twisted method to the madness of each GM. Except Milbury and Houle. That was just madness and no method. :lol:

The reason I went back 15 years, is that my point is you NEED to go back 15 years just to come up with FOUR 30 goal scorers and only a total of five times that a hab has hit the 30 goal mark in 15 years. That is ridiculous!! The last one was Kovy and that was around 4 years ago!!!

I havne't checked, but I doubt if there is another team that has only had a total of five instances of their players hitting 30 the 30 goal mark in a 15 year period. I'm sure even Columbus or the Islanders have had more then five instances of their players hitting the 30 goal mark.

As for the potential that Wiz was approached by PG to resign with the habs. Wiz made it quite clear that the habs never even approached him about resigning with them.

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The reason I went back 15 years, is that my point is you NEED to go back 15 years just to come up with FOUR 30 goal scorers and only a total of five times that a hab has hit the 30 goal mark in 15 years. That is ridiculous!! The last one was Kovy and that was around 4 years ago!!!

I havne't checked, but I doubt if there is another team that has only had a total of five instances of their players hitting 30 the 30 goal mark in a 15 year period. I'm sure even Columbus or the Islanders have had more then five instances of their players hitting the 30 goal mark.

As for the potential that Wiz was approached by PG to resign with the habs. Wiz made it quite clear that the habs never even approached him about resigning with them.

I know, it's quite sad indeed. But in that time frame, Recchi and Ryder also the bookends for the Dark Ages. You almost CAN'T count those dreadul years where 47pts would be the top getter on the team.

I went and checked. Even the Panthers had Pavel Bure right before Ollie, and Columbus got Nash right after Geoff Sanderson potting 30 for the first 2 seasons of the franchise. You're absolutely right. We've had goaltending for the better part of our entire history, but goal scoring hasn't been here since the mid-90s, except that Conference Championship year.

Oh well, hopefully Cole will get us #5 :blush:

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This trade get's better the more I think of it. We gave Cammi 6 million the summer after he scored 39 goals, playing with a hall of famer named Iginla. That happens to be his best ever year. We were hoping he'd become a 40 goal man, he didn't. In a salary cap world, you can't pay 25 goal scorers who are a career -27 that kind of money. In Bourque, we get a player who recently has scored more, while being a plus player, and makes half as much. The key now is what we do with that money. One other thing. The general thought was that most players were happy on the flight home from Boston that he's gone, says the reporters that cover the team. That point was made even clearer when questions about Cammi were answered with "no comments".

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Like many have suggested already - it was probably a GM from one of the 7 teams that Cami wouldn't agree to be moved to. Habs29, bless his soul, is using any fuel he can find to keep his fire going. Heck, he's going back 15 years (where we had a different owner, president, gm, coach and players) to pull up dead horses to beat on :P I don't know how you can indict the management when the entire organization is run by completely different people?

It is just as irrelevant as when the guys on tv come up with some statistics like "Since 1980, the Canadiens are 30-11-1 against the L.A. Kings".

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This was a tough trade for me. Commandant can attest that I was absolutely thrilled when Cammalleri became a Hab. I used to always trade for him in NHL06 for the Gamecube because of his speed and skill. He was a guy I used to always throw in as a trade possibility when he was on the Kings and I really wanted him after his season with the Flames. I thought he was going to Toronto for sure so I tried to not sound like a homer and focused on the more believable Havlat.

He's probably my favourite Hab since Damphousse and seeing him dealt so early really sucks to me. Cammalleri proved it in the post-season. People harp about Halak but Cammalleri proved it twice. You don't lead the league in the post-season for points twice by accident. You especially don't do it on a team that had a hard time scoring.

I would always say at another place that Cammalleri's scoring touch came when people forgot he was on the ice. You'll notice a ton of goals where they were passes to him when the defenders forgot their assignment on him. That opened him up for that one knee one timer. God damn I'll miss that. He was a player who relied on the PP and he was a player who was pretty one dimensional and it stuck out on a team which was supposedly built for every player to be two dimensional. However, I think that's what made Cammalleri such a great part of the team. He was the guy who had energy on that top line. But oh well.

When Cammalleri spoke up I thought it was going to light a fire on the team but I soon realized it was more about Cunnyworth vs. Cammalleri. The two didn't see eye to eye and it showed pretty fast. I know Cammy has an ego and was pretty outspoken, but Commandant can also attest, it's easy for me to like a guy like that :)

It was tough to be a Habs fan seeing him traded in the middle of a game against the Bruins. I would have liked to see him at least have the opportunity to tie it up and beat the Bruins one last time if he had to go. Simply put on the return, Bourque to me is just going to replace Kostitsyn as the third line checking forward who can score goals from time to time but is usually frustrating to watch. Same player, different nationality. The real value was the second round pick. Who knows where Calgary will be next season and that's why the pick is good. I see a hole in the top six but I don't mind as now we can try out some youngsters in that role and see who steps up in the upcoming seasons.

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Don't know how reliable he is, but in Mitch Melnick's blog. He claims that a western GM called PG to ask if Cammy was available and was told absolutely not and then 24hrs later he was traded.

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I find it funny how so many stries are coming out now that Cammy is no longer with the Habs. Guess it turns out that he was severely disliked amongst his temmates.

Cammalleri always had an ego and was always a selfish player on the ice. However, he was also a guy who would celebrate his teammates goals more than his own and would stick up for his teammates in the press. I don't deny anything calling him a prima donna but that's just the way he plays. He was never going to be a two way player no matter how many times Martin made him play the PK. He's the guy who finishes your passes on the PP and buys you dinner later.

A majority of superstars have this kind of attitude. We just buy into the media stories of these guys being all humble and quiet. Mark Messier was one of the biggest assholes to ever step in an NHL locker room but if you believe the hype he was the greatest captain to ever lace up skates. The reason why this stuff didn't go public until Vancouver is he wasn't good enough on the ice any more to mask his attitude and Vancouver didn't romanticize him like Edmonton and New York did.

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On a side note we have crapped all over Martin for his flip flopping of lines but apparently Cammalleri was a main reason for this. He aparently whined to coaches regulrly about wanting to play with this person or that,

Just seems like regardless of the production we are just better off with him gone.

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Chemistry is so important and it appears as though the leaders of this team had issues with Cammy. Is it a coincidence that as soon as he leaves Pleks hs arguably the best 2 games of this season thus far?

To me it doesn't matter if Cammy scores 30....we are better right now.

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Well, I've been speculating for a while that there were serious chemistry problems on the team. When almost every important player on a team under-performs that is usually the case. It could be that Cammy was a key component of all that - certainly the evidence is pointing in that direction. This doesn't mean that we should deny that the return for Cammy was distressingly low. I may be in a minority, but the Bourque I saw looked motivated but unsettlingly slow. He's just a fraction away from being a plodder, I suspect.

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I don't think Bourque looked slow at all. he was able to beat the Rangers D-core to the outside on a acouple of occassions and the rangers D-core is quite mobile. he is not quite at the Cole level but he was far from being slow I thought.

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I don't think Bourque looked slow at all. he was able to beat the Rangers D-core to the outside on a acouple of occassions and the rangers D-core is quite mobile. he is not quite at the Cole level but he was far from being slow I thought.

Ha ha, well, we're a pretty fast group so maybe he just looked slow by comparison ;)

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Ha ha, well, we're a pretty fast group so maybe he just looked slow by comparison ;)

Quite true....I mean we have guys who can skate despite their size. Cole, Pacioretty, Blunden, even Moen can skate well for a big guy..

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Well, I've been speculating for a while that there were serious chemistry problems on the team. When almost every important player on a team under-performs that is usually the case. It could be that Cammy was a key component of all that - certainly the evidence is pointing in that direction. This doesn't mean that we should deny that the return for Cammy was distressingly low. I may be in a minority, but the Bourque I saw looked motivated but unsettlingly slow. He's just a fraction away from being a plodder, I suspect.

Slow!?

Quite the contrary, this guy is fast. Probably a little faster than Cammalleri. No, he really is not slow at all.

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