Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Price talk is ridiculous. Best player on this team the last two years, easy. He's done well this year, which goalie from a bottom five team has won a Vezina? Only a retool is needed for this team to succeed. But it must be done in the right manner. The young core of this team is very good. Gomez needs to be bought out, Kostitsyn, Weber and Kabele should be traded, some good picks need to happen this and next year, and AHL development of Beaulieu, Tinordi, and Gallagher will be crucial. Two or three years down the road, this team could be a contender. I hope we don't make the mistake of thinking this team is a head coach, 1st line center and a healthy Markov away from being a Cup contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Of course, I agree he is not playing as well as last season. I just think there is a lot of other problems that need fixing before we even think about addressing the #1 Goalie Position. Thats one spot where I feel like we are set, and its just a matter of coming to the right dollars for his RFA deal.... as opposed to going out and trying to find another goalie. While he hasn't been perfect... on the list of problems with this team, he's very, very close to the bottom. You say that PG is such a good GM,and then you point out we have no defense(one of the softest in NHL history imo) and that this team has a ton of problems.Under PG this team has undoubtedly gotten worse. You go by your love of the individuals,I look at the standings,the eye test,the lack of pasiion most nights,and the personnel moves that have made us a laughingstock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Price talk is ridiculous. Best player on this team the last two years, easy. He's done well this year, which goalie from a bottom five team has won a Vezina? Only a retool is needed for this team to succeed. But it must be done in the right manner. The young core of this team is very good. Gomez needs to be bought out, Kostitsyn, Weber and Kabele should be traded, some good picks need to happen this and next year, and AHL development of Beaulieu, Tinordi, and Gallagher will be crucial. Two or three years down the road, this team could be a contender. I hope we don't make the mistake of thinking this team is a head coach, 1st line center and a healthy Markov away from being a Cup contender. Price has blown many games with soft goals and lack of shootout success.Cole has been our best player.Gomez won't be bought out until the end of next year.Trading Weber gets you a 4th or 5th rder.How does that help? I'd rather trade Diaz,at least Weber is a little physical. Kaberle? Unless BG gets hired somewhere else,your dreaming if you think anyone takes on that idiotic contract.Trading AK is just addition by subtraction.He has less value than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Do not laugh but many sites have reported that there is actual interest for Gomez. One went as far to say that a deal was on the table this week for him as it included a top D-man as well. Personally I think buying out Gomez makes no sense. His cap hit will still be almost $4.5 million next season with a buyout I believe so what kind of elite player can we get for less than $3 million. Personally I would package our 1st rounder in 2012 with Gomez to a team struggling to reach the cap floor for their 1st rounder this year. So hypothetically Gomez and our 1st to Islanders for their st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If you don't like Price, fine. Your intitled to your position, the last time i checked, to win a shootout, YOUR PLAYERS HAVE TO SCORE. How many times did they score 1 or fewer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If you don't like Price, fine. Your intitled to your position, the last time i checked, to win a shootout, YOUR PLAYERS HAVE TO SCORE. How many times did they score 1 or fewer? It's his body of work over 5 years that I don't like,including his lack of playoff success.i don't like the fact that an individual was placed above the team, and the entitlement that he's enjoyed w/o earning it,ever since we shipped Huet out at the deadline .Now we get lousy backups so he doesn't have to earn his spot. BTW halak is 10-0-3 w/ 4 SO since Nov. 22,and had better stats the whole time they were here on the same team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 oh brother, and of course Halak would be doing the same thing with this roster? It doesn't matter who is in net for the Blues, they are a very well coached team with far better talent then the habs. Elliot put Halak on the bench for a while as well. I guess the other piece of good news is the Oslanders won again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You say that PG is such a good GM,and then you point out we have no defense(one of the softest in NHL history imo) and that this team has a ton of problems.Under PG this team has undoubtedly gotten worse. You go by your love of the individuals,I look at the standings,the eye test,the lack of pasiion most nights,and the personnel moves that have made us a laughingstock. You clearly don't understand what I've said about PG.... because I've said he should be fired, and said that quite clearly. Perhaps you should check exactly what I said again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Do not laugh but many sites have reported that there is actual interest for Gomez. One went as far to say that a deal was on the table this week for him as it included a top D-man as well. Personally I think buying out Gomez makes no sense. His cap hit will still be almost $4.5 million next season with a buyout I believe so what kind of elite player can we get for less than $3 million. Personally I would package our 1st rounder in 2012 with Gomez to a team struggling to reach the cap floor for their 1st rounder this year. So hypothetically Gomez and our 1st to Islanders for their st. Our first rounder keeps getting higher and higher in this draft and is our opportunity for that elite player we've covetted forever. There is no possible way i use it merely as a tool to get rid of Gomez. Wouldn't even entertain the thought of trading own for this sole purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Our first rounder keeps getting higher and higher in this draft and is our opportunity for that elite player we've covetted forever. There is no possible way i use it merely as a tool to get rid of Gomez. Wouldn't even entertain the thought of trading own for this sole purpose. Apart from yakupov however the "elite" players are extremely limied. This draft is full of D and not much on the top rank level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Apart from yakupov however the "elite" players are extremely limied. This draft is full of D and not much on the top rank level Grigorenko is 1/2 with Yakupov. In fact ISS has Grigorenko ranked higher. You've also got Forsberg and Galchenyuk with elite level skills. Yes there are more D than forwards overall in the draft, however there are a few forwards with the potential to be franchise guys, and I'm not giving that up merely to be rid of Gomez. In McDonagh, we lost enough with Gomez... no point wasting more good assets to get rid of him. Bury him in the minors or use the free CBA buy out if you have to. But don't give away the best draft pick we've had since Price to do that. Its throwing good money after bad. Worst case scenario, you are forced to pick one of the D. Fine take him, and worry about moving Ds for forwards later... but don't just give him up for the sake of getting cap space, when there is only Zach Parise as a prime time free agent forward, and like Brad Richards last year, no guarantee you can sign him anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Anyone trading our first-round pick this season, of all seasons, should be rounded up and shot. The only way I move that is if we get back a young superstar or near-superstar who can be locked up long-term. In fairness, though, Willey seemed to be proposing that we trade Gomer + our first to the Isles for their 1st. Since that will likely mean a nearly interchangeable draft position I might well do that. (But if the draft position is basically interchangeable, why bother with the swap?) I'm on record as skeptical that we will land a top-2 pick. More likely we'll be around #4-5. The odds of bagging a franchise player drop precipitously after the first couple of picks, at which point it becomes basically a crapshoot - I'm not convinced the probability of landing an elite NHLer are that much greater drafting at #5 as at #10 or #15. So unlike many I'm not panting with excitement over the upcoming draft; but I still think it's lunacy to move a pick that is quite likely to yield a high-quality player (top-6 forward, top-4 defenceman) just to offload the Gomez contract. A lot of crazy ideas floating around Habsland these days (including the idea that Price is somehow a problem). Sign of the times, I s'pose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Galchenyuk doesn't excite me but Yakupov, Grigorenko, FLIPBERG and Gaunce will all be elite NHLers. Gaunce is kind of a safe pick because you get a center with size who already plays a Canadiens style two way game. If we ended up outside of the top five, he'd be my pick, "better defensive prospects" be damned. Then again, some people might say, "Chipchura Redux" but whatever. Honestly, Montreal should not pick a defenceman period. We got Tinordi and Beaulieu in the system. If we're not in a position to pick an elite forward, you trade down to get more picks in hopes of getting lucky with a prospect in the late first/early second round to go along with your earliest pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If they pick 4 or 5 and the only NHl ready player is a dman, you have to take him. That person would be an immediate upgrade over all the D except Subban and Gorges. I think they will be picking in the top 3. i don't see this ship getting any better until they decide as an orginization what direction they are taking, including a coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Anyone trading our first-round pick this season, of all seasons, should be rounded up and shot. The only way I move that is if we get back a young superstar or near-superstar who can be locked up long-term. In fairness, though, Willey seemed to be proposing that we trade Gomer + our first to the Isles for their 1st. Since that will likely mean a nearly interchangeable draft position I might well do that. (But if the draft position is basically interchangeable, why bother with the swap?) I'm on record as skeptical that we will land a top-2 pick. More likely we'll be around #4-5. The odds of bagging a franchise player drop precipitously after the first couple of picks, at which point it becomes basically a crapshoot - I'm not convinced the probability of landing an elite NHLer are that much greater drafting at #5 as at #10 or #15. So unlike many I'm not panting with excitement over the upcoming draft; but I still think it's lunacy to move a pick that is quite likely to yield a high-quality player (top-6 forward, top-4 defenceman) just to offload the Gomez contract. A lot of crazy ideas floating around Habsland these days (including the idea that Price is somehow a problem). Sign of the times, I s'pose. Buy low, sell high. Price ain't the problem. Heaping extra pressure on a young goalie when the team in front of you isn't in front of you seems unlikely to yield success. I think our team should have been better than the year before with the moves Gauthier made, pretty much all of which I agreed with. It was Markov failing to arrive that forced him to take remedial action that was doomed as Campoli was injured , following by more depopulation of the team. I have no idea if Martin was good or bad. I think unhappy results naturally cause us to look at the bus driver arriving late as the problem , rather than the rush hour trafffic and the accident up the road. We want victims. We want a little blood.. But what the hell do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Toronthab? You know about as much as all of us do. But this website is one of my first stops of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Grigorenko is 1/2 with Yakupov. In fact ISS has Grigorenko ranked higher. You've also got Forsberg and Galchenyuk with elite level skills. Yes there are more D than forwards overall in the draft, however there are a few forwards with the potential to be franchise guys, and I'm not giving that up merely to be rid of Gomez. In McDonagh, we lost enough with Gomez... no point wasting more good assets to get rid of him. Bury him in the minors or use the free CBA buy out if you have to. But don't give away the best draft pick we've had since Price to do that. Its throwing good money after bad. Worst case scenario, you are forced to pick one of the D. Fine take him, and worry about moving Ds for forwards later... but don't just give him up for the sake of getting cap space, when there is only Zach Parise as a prime time free agent forward, and like Brad Richards last year, no guarantee you can sign him anyways. Galneychuk has not played a game yet and there are question marks whether he'll overcome his injuries.....not wasting a pick on him. Yakupov is there but I have seen many people put Grigorenko as low as 6-7 and sometimes 8th. Not sure if its the russian factor or not but there are definitely question marks on him. I don't see us falling to 28-30th in the league and we'll have a push back. We'll end up in the 23-24th overall I think. We'll be out of the running of the top pick and I would seriously consider parting with our first as a salary dump and get a lower end pick. Once you get past those first few there simply isn;t much difference between 5 and 15 so why stick with it. If they pick 4 or 5 and the only NHl ready player is a dman, you have to take him. That person would be an immediate upgrade over all the D except Subban and Gorges. I think they will be picking in the top 3. i don't see this ship getting any better until they decide as an orginization what direction they are taking, including a coaching staff. Realistically none of these guys are NHL ready with the exception of perhaps Forsberg. Yakupov and grigorenko will likely astick with their NHL teams as well but I think more because of their birth certificate. Thats just my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Galneychuk has not played a game yet and there are question marks whether he'll overcome his injuries.....not wasting a pick on him. Yakupov is there but I have seen many people put Grigorenko as low as 6-7 and sometimes 8th. Not sure if its the russian factor or not but there are definitely question marks on him. I don't see us falling to 28-30th in the league and we'll have a push back. We'll end up in the 23-24th overall I think. We'll be out of the running of the top pick and I would seriously consider parting with our first as a salary dump and get a lower end pick. Once you get past those first few there simply isn;t much difference between 5 and 15 so why stick with it. Galchenyuk's is the first time he's injured his knee, I'd definetely let my doctors look at him closely, but the medical science has evolved so much even since Koivu. Look at Brett Connolly, I don't think the lightning regret doing that pick, I don't think they feel it was wasted. Look at Josh Gorges' as well. Its a lot different situation than say Markov who has blown out both knees, and had 3 operations on them overall. As for Grigorenko, the only place I've seen him that low is Craig Button, but Craig Button is weird man, he had Tinordi in his top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Realistically none of these guys are NHL ready with the exception of perhaps Forsberg. Yakupov and grigorenko will likely astick with their NHL teams as well but I think more because of their birth certificate. Thats just my take. I think yakupov and grigo are both NHL ready and will both put up 40-50 pts as rookies. I don't think it has anything to do with birth certificate. These two are dynamic players. Galchenyuk is one guy who is going to need the OHL season again, because of not playing this year, but he's got that high end talent too. I really think these three are franchise defining forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Galchenyuk's is the first time he's injured his knee, I'd definetely let my doctors look at him closely, but the medical science has evolved so much even since Koivu. Look at Brett Connolly, I don't think the lightning regret doing that pick, I don't think they feel it was wasted. Look at Josh Gorges' as well. Its a lot different situation than say Markov who has blown out both knees, and had 3 operations on them overall. As for Grigorenko, the only place I've seen him that low is Craig Button, but Craig Button is weird man, he had Tinordi in his top 10. and had Tinordi as like 5th over all in November when reviewing the draft class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 and had Tinordi as like 5th over all in November when reviewing the draft class. I like Tinordi a lot, and I mean a lot... but his ranking of him is just silly. He's not a top 5 or even top 10 talent in a draft with Hall, Seguin, Gudbransson, Fowler, Skinner, Johanssen, Connolly, Granlund, Gormley, Niederreiter, Burmistrov, Tarasenko, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Anyone trading our first-round pick this season, of all seasons, should be rounded up and shot. The only way I move that is if we get back a young superstar or near-superstar who can be locked up long-term. In fairness, though, Willey seemed to be proposing that we trade Gomer + our first to the Isles for their 1st. Since that will likely mean a nearly interchangeable draft position I might well do that. (But if the draft position is basically interchangeable, why bother with the swap?) I'm on record as skeptical that we will land a top-2 pick. More likely we'll be around #4-5. The odds of bagging a franchise player drop precipitously after the first couple of picks, at which point it becomes basically a crapshoot - I'm not convinced the probability of landing an elite NHLer are that much greater drafting at #5 as at #10 or #15. So unlike many I'm not panting with excitement over the upcoming draft; but I still think it's lunacy to move a pick that is quite likely to yield a high-quality player (top-6 forward, top-4 defenceman) just to offload the Gomez contract. A lot of crazy ideas floating around Habsland these days (including the idea that Price is somehow a problem). Sign of the times, I s'pose. Again i agree 100% and no way we catch Columbus, Carolina, Oilers, so will be lucky to be in top 5, and i do see a half-dozen super looking forwards, just dont think the natural skill of an almost sure-bet game changing superstar pick like Yakupov or say a Nugent-Hopkins that will be available. But possibly a Sean Couturier-like player should be in Habs range, like a Gaunce, Forsberg, Faksa or if really lucky a Galchenyuk? I still cant see how Sens and Jets both passed on Couturier last year? Shiefele and Zibinajad will be good most likely, but Couturier put up back to back 100 points on a shity team, he already is on Philly's PK and etc etc. time will tell. He was about the only one i thought the Habs should of traded up to get and would of been a PR home run also, a big francophone centre. I am finding the Price criticism as laughable, as i have said before you can just lump the total production of 11, 13, 14, 21 and 79 togeather for the $25-30m they cost and see what is reason for 25th place, no need to look any further and start picking on a guy who's value is "Priceless" (just ask teams like leafs/sens/philly/tampa what they would trade for him) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 In the end, Tinordi will have a much more prolific career than Cam Fowler. But I agree with you, there was no way Tinordi was going top 10 unless a team in the top 10 had a crush on him, similar to Thomas Hickey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 In the end, Tinordi will have a much more prolific career than Cam Fowler. But I agree with you, there was no way Tinordi was going top 10 unless a team in the top 10 had a crush on him, similar to Thomas Hickey. Talking about a bold statement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Talking about a bold statement... He's just always hated Fowler, even before he was drafte. MOLG really doesn't like his defensive ability.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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