Jump to content

2012 NHL Entry Draft talk


Commandant

Recommended Posts

After Cherry's Ontario rant caught big attention, I expect Burke to be pressured into selecting an Ontario born player like Cody Ceci or Malcolm Subban, maybe trading down so he gets an extra second out of it.

That was sweet but accurate. Burke will ignore it until the press brings it up at nausium when the leaves begin to fall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finally a forward

Tomas Hertl

http://lastwordonspo...25-tomas-hertl/

Great to see your prospect profiles, well done.

I hear more and more, that this year's draft referred to as thin, but it seems will have same quality players available in 2nd round as were last year. And in 1st round is just heavier to defense is all eh?

So by and large, will likely be an average draft class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great to see your prospect profiles, well done.

I hear more and more, that this year's draft referred to as thin, but it seems will have same quality players available in 2nd round as were last year. And in 1st round is just heavier to defense is all eh?

So by and large, will likely be an average draft class.

Its interesting because people were talking about how deep this one was going to be this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I talked about the two issues, way back at the beginning of these prospect profiles a month ago.

My thoughts on how deep the draft was originally perceived to be, and how deep it is now perceived to be, and why the opinions have changed.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/03/19/nhl-draft-2012-the-year-of-the-injury/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I talked about the two issues, way back at the beginning of these prospect profiles a month ago.

My thoughts on how deep the draft was originally perceived to be, and how deep it is now perceived to be, and why the opinions have changed.

http://lastwordonspo...-of-the-injury/

Re-read and recall article, points out how viewed/percieved by others.

Galchenyuk/Reilly seem to have recovered and both still top 10 and likely both close to top 5. And several others likely wont fall too badly due to injuries.

As for the couple overhyped players who fell like Ebert, there are some other prospects as always (like Collberg/Teravainen) who have moved way up to fill those spots.

But by and large most top 10-15 guys are still in top 10-15.

So seems to be another average class to me and as was last year with Rattie/Jurco/etc, there will be some skilled scorers and other solid role players still to be had in 2nd round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the injury thing doesn't really hurt a Rielly or a Galchenyuk who are right at the top of the class.

but it can really hurt a Koekkoek, or someone in that range, especially if its devastating, and the player gets limited viewings and doesn't return during the season.

Remember too that when Scouts talk about good or bad draft classes, they are generally talking about the depth of the draft, and the quality of prospect they find at 25, 55, 85, etc... than they are talking about the quality of the first 5 picks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the injury thing doesn't really hurt a Rielly or a Galchenyuk who are right at the top of the class.

but it can really hurt a Koekkoek, or someone in that range, especially if its devastating, and the player gets limited viewings and doesn't return during the season.

Remember too that when Scouts talk about good or bad draft classes, they are generally talking about the depth of the draft, and the quality of prospect they find at 25, 55, 85, etc... than they are talking about the quality of the first 5 picks.

Even if that is how to judge, i see some in the 70s to 90s that seem promising for sure, whether more than normal or less i ait got a clue?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even if that is how to judge, i see some in the 70s to 90s that seem promising for sure, whether more than normal or less i ait got a clue?

Yeah there will always be some who turn out for every draft. The truth really is that people won't truly no if this is a weak draft or a strong one until about 5 years from now. One of the signals though that it might be a weak draft is the total lack of Canadian Forwards in the draft class. I'm at pick 25 and I've previewed exactly 1 Canadian forward. Thats a really strange year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah there will always be some who turn out for every draft. The truth really is that people won't truly no if this is a weak draft or a strong one until about 5 years from now. One of the signals though that it might be a weak draft is the total lack of Canadian Forwards in the draft class. I'm at pick 25 and I've previewed exactly 1 Canadian forward. Thats a really strange year.

MIght be strange and lack hometown forwards, but i will bet after all the top quality d-men and top euro/russians in the 1st round, you will still find many canadian kids, like Laughton/Sissons/Troock and at least a couple dozen of others from just the CHL alone, whom all project to be solid NHLers as per most drafts.

Is reason i still think will be bout average when all said and done and looked back at down the road.

So by your list the Habs, if grab BPA, be picking Murray (as per Bob McKenzie list as well and he(TSN)are batting 100% correct for 5 years running, for ranking the #3 who is taken at #3)

And you had Dumba at #5, but that was before his showing at U18s, would you say his stock is higher or still #5? I would take the chance and have Dumba as the top d-man (and a flip of coin for him or Gaalchenyuk at 3rd pick), even though Murray is better at present and safest pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't move Dumba ahead of Murray.

As good as Dumbas 2012 touney was, and it was great; Murrays 2011 tourney was better.

But Murray and Dumba are 2 very different players and Dumba likely is more offensive, gritty and exciting, whereas Murray is a Larsson-type; NHL-ready, good all-round but i just wouldnt use a top 5 pick on the Hedman's, Larsson nor Murray type d-men who wont add offense as well. Just personal choice of avoiding more defensive (all-round) d-men with high pick when, a Maatta/Reinhart or another can be had in mid 1st round.

With more KHL crap, like Burmistrov being offered KHL contract and Kostitsyn and Radulov being a bit unprofessional/unfocused, i was a bit leery about Grigorenko russian-factor before and given his "takes shifts/games off' and playoff unsuccess, no one would really risk picking him at 3 would they? Especially given the top quality of those ranked all around him.

I mean Radulov still seems like a me-first player and seems to be just the latest in growing line of russian gong show contestants/picks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Murray has more offensive potential than you think... As I said he had more points in the 2011 U18, than Dumba got in the 2012 that everyone is going crazy over.

His WHL stats are a lot lower, but the forwards on that Everett team absolutely suck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Russians get a bad reputation for being egotistical or self absorbed but that's only because they are not Canadians.

Joe Thornton was only one year younger when he assaulted a police officer. He was captain of the Bruins at the time.

And we all know storm troopers are never too blame eh and i am not quite sure what that has to do with Grigorenko being a sketchy pick, but interesting trivia i suppose.

Basically all i mean is that, Grigorenko may be top 2 skill wise, but it wouldnt surprise me to see him fall to 10th due to Russian KHL factor and i am kind of hoping Timmins steers clear of, but he is alot more familar with all prospects than I and if he did draft him, i would trust his judgement for sure.

Russians have a reputation, due to players like Radulov, who skip town for the big bucks or for players like Yashin and others who whine, sulk and "defect" when suits them or simply cant pass up on $$.

Dosent mean all can be trusted, Markov, Datsyuk and many others are super and great team players.

But to waste a high pick on a player who gets lured away by KHL, becasue he dosent want to ride the bus in the AHL and make only $65-90,000, would be quite a shame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't expect a #3 overall pick to spend a single day in the AHL.

Grigorenko would have two years of CHL eligibility left before he can go to the AHL, even if he doesn't make the team next year, he should be NHL ready for 2013-14.... and even if he's not, he'd have to fail to make the team in 3 straight training camps before he's sent to the AHL.

If he can't make the team in 3 years, he shouldn't have been a top 3 pick to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dosent mean all can be trusted, Markov, Datsyuk and many others are super and great team players.

That's my problem though. Every player regardless of where they were from (despite my jokes on Belarus) deserves the benefit of the doubt. There isn't some ice hockey course every Russian hockey player takes telling them not to take their job serious or to play for the highest dollar and be prepared to leave.

Russian players have been centered out for years for their behaviours and a big part of that is because we as North Americans assume every single hockey player wants to be in the NHL and wants to leave their home and fly a thousand miles to a country where they need to learn a second language, sometimes a third just to be accepted and understand everyone. The reason why the Russians get centered out is because there's all of this expectation and sometimes, Russians can get paid more at a younger age to play near home. And we feel disrespected for it. I've heard about how Quebec born players in the 70s and 80s felt disrespected and judged because they didn't want to learn English. At least they still had two hockey teams to play on which appreciated it. Think about a European player. Not a single town or team. Learn English or get judged. Play "Like a Canadian" or get criticized.

I'm no excusing the ones who act up. Radulov and Kostitsyn got what they deserved and Andrei and his brother should have got that with Hamrlik back during their Canadiens days. But Russians get zero leash length when it comes to this. Canadians and Americans get every excuse from age to, "the pressures of superstardom". Russians get a reputation and then we get angry when winning a Stanley Cup isn't their lifelong goal and they decide to get paid better in their home country. How dare they! We used a draft pick on them!

Rant pretty much over but the judgments on Russians in the NHL is more Cherryisian xenophobia than truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Murray has more offensive potential than you think... As I said he had more points in the 2011 U18, than Dumba got in the 2012 that everyone is going crazy over.

His WHL stats are a lot lower, but the forwards on that Everett team absolutely suck.

Not crazy over just U18s, but have been high on him all year and i think you and others kind of soured on him in 2nd half? Maybe for good reasons, but other than being young he has a ton of potential i think.

Dumba has said he recognizes his defensive liabilities and has tried to work on and still racked up 20 goals and 57 points.

Not to argue, but Red Deer is no powerhouse neither and is hard to miss playoffs in WHL, but Red Deer did.

I still would likely prefer Galchenyuk (but flip a coin), but i just see Dumba as another huge fan favorite and exciting player, as Subban was when he first started.

And you can just never have too many good d-men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could the revelation that Grigorenko has Mono help explain his poor performance of the past month? Would that factor play into the final selection process of a team pickling high in the draft or has he really been tagged as a bit lazy for good? I do not know who Montreal will pick but I do find interesting all the information being provided by the people on this forum. I plan on being surprised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's my problem though. Every player regardless of where they were from (despite my jokes on Belarus) deserves the benefit of the doubt. There isn't some ice hockey course every Russian hockey player takes telling them not to take their job serious or to play for the highest dollar and be prepared to leave.

Russian players have been centered out for years for their behaviours and a big part of that is because we as North Americans assume every single hockey player wants to be in the NHL and wants to leave their home and fly a thousand miles to a country where they need to learn a second language, sometimes a third just to be accepted and understand everyone. The reason why the Russians get centered out is because there's all of this expectation and sometimes, Russians can get paid more at a younger age to play near home. And we feel disrespected for it. I've heard about how Quebec born players in the 70s and 80s felt disrespected and judged because they didn't want to learn English. At least they still had two hockey teams to play on which appreciated it. Think about a European player. Not a single town or team. Learn English or get judged. Play "Like a Canadian" or get criticized.

I'm no excusing the ones who act up. Radulov and Kostitsyn got what they deserved and Andrei and his brother should have got that with Hamrlik back during their Canadiens days. But Russians get zero leash length when it comes to this. Canadians and Americans get every excuse from age to, "the pressures of superstardom". Russians get a reputation and then we get angry when winning a Stanley Cup isn't their lifelong goal and they decide to get paid better in their home country. How dare they! We used a draft pick on them!

Rant pretty much over but the judgments on Russians in the NHL is more Cherryisian xenophobia than truth.

Sorry, but you seem to make my point, in that they are all not driven to succeed and many talented players flop because they dont want it bad enough, which is fine, KHL needs players and McDonalds need berger flippers also.

So why waste a top pick, if a cup/Hall of Fame is not their ultimate goal. Especially when other prospects are just about as skilled and "Hard-Worker" is one character trait used by scouts to describe them (as with Forsberg and Galchenyuk).

Same goes for borderline NHLers, such as Darche, Kostopoulas, LaPierriere who would crawl through glass for their teammates and just to stay in the league they wiork their ass off every shift of every game. When many Russians are the opposite and have all the talent in the world; such as, Kovalev and are #1 star one game and invisible for next couple, i can do without floaters, such as Kovalev, Jagr and Cammalleri types.

And sure the Eastern Euro/Russian stereotype may be unfair and my comments may seem "Cherryish", but just spitballing why i would hesitate to pick one specific russian with 3rd pick, thats all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...