2012 NHL Entry Draft talk

[DON]

Could the revelation that Grigorenko has Mono help explain his poor performance of the past month? Would that factor play into the final selection process of a team pickling high in the draft or has he really been tagged as a bit lazy for good? I do not know who Montreal will pick but I do find interesting all the information being provided by the people on this forum. I plan on being surprised.

I am sure the Habs scouting staff has had info on Grigorenko going back awhile (couple years?) and as with many prospects they likely have collated reviews from many different sources and playing in Quebec i am sure hardly a game went by that some scout hasnt noted some pros/cons of his play and i would think game video is likely gone over also. As well, i would guess they have had informal chats with him and his coach.

So his final play with a sickness would be noted/discounted or however you want to catagoriaze it and not brand him 1 way or the other at this late stage of scouting.

With such a valuable pick, Timmins is surely being diligient and doing his homework.

Given his track record, he knows what he is doing and i hope he also finds another Gallagher or Dietz with a long-shot late round pick again this year.

[Commandant]

Not crazy over just U18s, but have been high on him all year and i think you and others kind of soured on him in 2nd half? Maybe for good reasons, but other than being young he has a ton of potential i think.

Dumba has said he recognizes his defensive liabilities and has tried to work on and still racked up 20 goals and 57 points.

Not to argue, but Red Deer is no powerhouse neither and is hard to miss playoffs in WHL, but Red Deer did.

I still would likely prefer Galchenyuk (but flip a coin), but i just see Dumba as another huge fan favorite and exciting player, as Subban was when he first started.

And you can just never have too many good d-men.

I didn't really sour on him... I have him at the top of this draft. There isn't much to differentiate between pick 2 and pick 8 here.

[Commandant]

Rant pretty much over but the judgments on Russians in the NHL is more Cherryisian xenophobia than truth.

Agreed there is a big difference between Filatov and say Datsyuk. You have to judge each player individually on their own personality and not where they were born.

[DON]

I didn't really sour on him... I have him at the top of this draft. There isn't much to differentiate between pick 2 and pick 8 here.

sorry, i must misremember your comment on Dumba, maybe were just questioning his play or something? And some other article commented his 2nd half was a drop off.

[Commandant]

sorry, i must misremember your comment on Dumba, maybe were just questioning his play or something? And some other article commented his 2nd half was a drop off.

http://lastwordonspo...e-5-matt-dumba/

This is the worst thing I said about Dumba, after an article full of good things.

  "More size and strength will also help him to contain the bigger forwards he'll face in the pros.  He could also use some more time learning at the junior level, as his defensive positioning and decision making could stand to be improved.

As a July birthdate, Dumba is one of the younger players eligible in the draft.  For example he is 10 months younger than Ryan Murray who is our number 3 prospect.  For this reason we do believe that Dumba has the time to gain the bulk and defensive skills he will need to transition to the NHL.   He's definitely got some maturing to do, both physically, and in polishing his game.  We do however think it is very likely he will play another season in the WHL next year, as we don't think he will be NHL ready in time for 2012-13.  That said, we do think he's got a ton of potential to be a very good defenceman down the road.

[Commandant]

#27 is Vasilevski, the Russian goalie.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/02/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-27-andrei-vasilevski/

[DON]

http://lastwordonspo...e-5-matt-dumba/

This is the worst thing I said about Dumba, after an article full of good things.

"More size and strength will also help him to contain the bigger forwards he'll face in the pros. He could also use some more time learning at the junior level, as his defensive positioning and decision making could stand to be improved.

As a July birthdate, Dumba is one of the younger players eligible in the draft. For example he is 10 months younger than Ryan Murray who is our number 3 prospect. For this reason we do believe that Dumba has the time to gain the bulk and defensive skills he will need to transition to the NHL. He's definitely got some maturing to do, both physically, and in polishing his game. We do however think it is very likely he will play another season in the WHL next year, as we don't think he will be NHL ready in time for 2012-13. That said, we do think he's got a ton of potential to be a very good defenceman down the road.

I would expect Murray would suit up for almost any team in NHL this fall, cept Habs.

I would expect Dumba to suit up as a regular for opening game in 2014-15 (if a Hab), same development timeframe as Subban went through.

[Commandant]

I would expect Murray would suit up for almost any team in NHL this fall, cept Habs.

I would expect Dumba to suit up as a regular for opening game in 2014-15 (if a Hab), same development timeframe as Subban went through.

We'll see.  I think Dumba will be great, but I disagree that he is NHL ready this fall.  I think he's the kind of kid who has huge upside, but a team needs to be patient with. Just my feeling though.

[DON]

We'll see. I think Dumba will be great, but I disagree that he is NHL ready this fall. I think he's the kind of kid who has huge upside, but a team needs to be patient with. Just my feeling though.

no i said Dumba wont be full time 2014-15, no way he is ready this fall, but Murray is, my guess Murray will be suiting up and paired with Jack Johnson or Wisniewski.

[Chris]

I actually think Columbus may take Gregerenko. They just lost a top 2 center. Event hough Carter wasn't playing like one. They got a young top 4 dman back. They may want a centerman.

i am not opposed to the habs drafting a dman. I would go Galyenchuk as my top option, Murray or Dumba as a #2 choice.

i am not understandign the hype on Forsberg, granted i only saw a couple of his games. but his offensive numbers aren't very good. He kind of reminds me of the paajarvy. Rated very high but no real offensive skill. But what do i know.

[Commandant]

no i said Dumba wont be full time 2014-15, no way he is ready this fall, but Murray is, my guess Murray will be suiting up and paired with Jack Johnson or Wisniewski.

Sorry, misinterpretation.

[Commandant]

I actually think Columbus may take Gregerenko. They just lost a top 2 center. Event hough Carter wasn't playing like one. They got a young top 4 dman back. They may want a centerman.

i am not opposed to the habs drafting a dman. I would go Galyenchuk as my top option, Murray or Dumba as a #2 choice.

i am not understandign the hype on Forsberg, granted i only saw a couple of his games. but his offensive numbers aren't very good. He kind of reminds me of the paajarvy. Rated very high but no real offensive skill. But what do i know.

His offensive numbers are 4x what Patrick Berglund did at the same age in the same league. Its a tough league to score in for any kid. That said the Paajarvi thing is also possible. Thats the difficulty with those leagues... is the kid not scoring because 17 year olds don't score against men in the Swedish Elitserien or Allvenskan (where Forsberg is).. or are they not scoring because they aren't going to be scorers? Its something a scout needs to figure out.

[Chris]

yes, that's why i would avoid him and gregerenko for that matter. Grigerenko's wrap for poor effort bothers me. You have a top 3 pick, you better get someone who can produce and be a long term good player.

I think within a year Dumba or Murray is better than Weber, Campoli or Diaz.

It would be interesting to see if Roy was coach would he pick Gregerenko? He knows him very well.

[DON]

I actually think Columbus may take Gregerenko. They just lost a top 2 center. Event hough Carter wasn't playing like one. They got a young top 4 dman back. They may want a centerman.

i am not opposed to the habs drafting a dman. I would go Galyenchuk as my top option, Murray or Dumba as a #2 choice.

i am not understandign the hype on Forsberg, granted i only saw a couple of his games. but his offensive numbers aren't very good. He kind of reminds me of the paajarvy. Rated very high but no real offensive skill. But what do i know.

I dont know about what Columbus's needs, but just seems a smart fit to get a top goalie in Nash deal and solidify d-core with Murray, just a wild guess.

I am like you and Galchenyuk seems best/safest pick at 3, but see Dumba as a more risky but maybe the best player to be available and is a close second in my eyes.

Scouting reports on Forsberg seemed a bit more positive than what i saw at the world juniors, but he is a young pick this year and was playing a bit over his head.

He seemed to show more at U18s and impressed me for sure.

I also thought the same about production in Sweden being a bit unimpressive, but i looked at Mats Sundin for comparison, in 1990 he only had 18 points in SEL (fair comparison or maybe not?), so Swedish low production may not be a good indication of much?

If he is like Paajavi (sp??) was as a junior, i dont know and cant remember and have to rely on scout reports; Button is very high on him as are others.

But has been a long time since Habs have had a top notch Swede and if his name is called, i would be fine with that. He is a big kid who does seem to have lots of potential.

Seems to me that #3 must be one of these 5; Murray/Galchenyuk/Grigorenko/Dumba/Forsberg and any of them should help the Habs in a couple years.

[DON]

yes, that's why i would avoid him and gregerenko for that matter. Grigerenko's wrap for poor effort bothers me. You have a top 3 pick, you better get someone who can produce and be a long term good player.

I think within a year Dumba or Murray is better than Weber, Campoli or Diaz.

It would be interesting to see if Roy was coach would he pick Gregerenko? He knows him very well.

I wouild say Murray is better than all 3 now and really these 2 prospects are in a different class than Weber and other 2. These 2 prospects will be top 4 d-men if not top 2, the other 3 will likely never be.

Who is coach will have zero impact on draft i think, scouting deptartment gets paid to do a job and they dont rank players by who may be coach. I could be off-base on this, but current roster need will have little to do with which prospect is called in June?

In the NFL and NBA they tend to draft more for current roster needs, becasue draft picks go straight to pro contract; but in MLB and NHL they, by and large, need to forecast farther out, a couple years down the road (as they did when Theodore was #1 goalie and former MVP and still drafted a goalie with #5 pick).

[Commandant]

You don't let Roy make the choice as coach.

Of the top players, he's only seen one of them play. There is no other QMJHL guys and thats his sole expertise.

Where guys like Timmins see Grigorenko and Galchenyuk and Murray and Yakupov, etc...

You use Roy as a resource to learn about the kid, but you don't draft him based solely on a guy who has only scouted one of the candidates.

[Chris]

I meant getting Roy's opinion.

IS Murray a LD and Dumba a RD?

Forsberg a LW?

[Commandant]

I meant getting Roy's opinion.

IS Murray a LD and Dumba a RD?

Forsberg a LW?

Yes on Murray and Dumba. Forsberg is mainly RW with the ability to play LW too.

[Commandant]

Phil Di Giuseppe.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/03/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-28-phil-digiuseppe/

[Commandant]

Our first Quebecois in the draft.

Pointe-Claire native.

Former Lac St. Louis Lion

Michael Matheson is #29

http://lastwordonspo...chael-matheson/

[HabsWEST]

After posting on the HABS at WORLD's Thread, realized should post here;

AVOID Gigorenko, ( too much speculation on his inconsistency and work effort, --- yes we know about his mono deal...)

as I mentioned before, RYAN MURRAY SECOND youngest player to ever suit for Canada at the World's. Paul kariya was younger by less than a month.

with 3rd pick, and if Columbus picks skips over him, I say we grab him...is he the other habs at the World's? I been saying Habs should draft him, long before he was picked up for the WHC, regardless of why he is there.

If Columbus takes him, SKIP over Grigorenko , PICK Galchenyuk, ( something to be said for a kid that gets back from ACL reconstruction after only 6 months!!) apparently he is a WORKOUT demon!...

At first there is that risk of such a major injury soo early in his career, but getting to play in playoffs and looking better than the consensus number 1 in Yakupov...hmmm, and as mentioned, I know from personal experience , I also had ACL reconstruction done by same surgeon that did Pavel Bure's knee and was the NHL team Doctor, I speak from personal experience..

what Galchenyuk did to come back after 6 month post ACL reconstruct, is wow total amazing, and a credit to the young mens commitment, so any of this " garbage talk" to avoid all Russians etc... is outer BULL ....in his case... wow

Take Murray or GALCHENYUK, whomever of 2 is available, PLEASE avoid Gigorenko...

Good luck Timmons and Bergevin!!

[Commandant]

Galchenyuk isn't Russian.

Anyways next up is #30 Martin Frk

http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/05/05/nhl-draft-prospect-profile-30-martin-frk/

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Going around the Internet (ugh, why, why do I do this to myself) it seems many people are convinced Montreal will draft Forsberg because he's the safe pick.

[DON]

Going around the Internet (ugh, why, why do I do this to myself) it seems many people are convinced Montreal will draft Forsberg because he's the safe pick.

I wouldnt think Forsberg is a frontrunner, and Galchenyuk or Murray would be the safe picks as well

Dumba and Grigorenko would be risky ones i think

[Commandant]

Going around the Internet (ugh, why, why do I do this to myself) it seems many people are convinced Montreal will draft Forsberg because he's the safe pick.

Forsberg is by no means a "safe pick". There are serious questions about his offense. Yes, he's playing in a men's league, and yes 17 year olds usually don't score in that league. I agree with those. But they had the same concerns over Magnus Paajarvi, and the same things were said then. I like Forsberg, I think he'll be a good player, but his offensive ceiling is unknown.

Is he a first line 80 plus pt guy? Is he a 60 pt guy? Is he a third line defensive player? He'll be in the NHL, I'm pretty comfortable saying that, and while I think its more likely he's first line talent than 3rd line talent. Its really up in the air. I'd draft him, but not at 3, closer to 6 or 7.