Jump to content

Trade Value Of: Yannick Weber


dlbalr

Recommended Posts

I'd like to save the main pending UFA's (Gill, Moen, and Kostitsyn) for closer to the deadline so that leaves us with discussing Yannick Weber's future this week for our ATB article. There is lots to ponder with him...

- Should he be traded?

- Will he be dealt?

- What is his value straight up?

- Should the Habs be looking for a pick, prospect, or NHL'er in return?

- Would Pierre Gauthier be wise to try and include him with another piece or deal him on his own?

As we did last time, some of the responses will be compiled in the next ATB edition, slated for late this week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1) He should be traded because he is redundant.... a small RH, offense first Dman. Habs already have Subban as the all around guy who is RH, and Diaz who is a similar (but better) player than Weber. As such there is no spot. You can't dress Subban, Diaz, and Weber as your 3 RDmen. There is no balance.

2) I think the Habs will trade him the moment they get the right offer for him. I think with the recent commitment to size they see the redundancy he and Diaz on the same team bring.

3) Value: 2nd round pick or a decent but not great prospect.

4) Same as answer 3, take either the pick, or a forward prospect with size who is the equivalent of a second round talent.

5) Always wise to explore both options.... Hard to say what the offers out there are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always liked Weber and think of him as a part of the team moving forward. I don't know why everyone seems to be on the trade-him bandwagon. All the guy has done for us is what we've asked of him the last few years. The poor frigging guy gets bounced around from forward to defense as if it was grade school ball hockey. Pretty hard to learn a position if you don't consistently play it, if you ask me. He scored some clutch goals in the playoffs and regular season when called upon. His future didn't seem to be in doubt until his Swiss clone Diaz came along. Now I can understand why a team wouldn't need 2 players who are basically the same, but I don't know why Weber seems to be the odd man out. Weber has slightly better numbers than Diaz, is 3 years younger, was drafted 73rd overall (Diaz not all), and has more NHL/North American experience. If one of the Swiss has to go, ship out Diaz!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Draft position matters nothing to the debate IMO... all it means is Weber was a better 18 year old than Diaz was, but that has nothing to do with current value.

I see Weber as only having one attribute that is better than Diaz, and thats a better slapshot.

Diaz is a better defender, is stronger, more positionally sound, a better passer, a better skater (especially lateral movement) and a smarter hokey player.

This is why Diaz has only missed 1 game all season as a healthy scratch (plus 2 with flu) while Weber is normally in that position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Draft position matters nothing to the debate IMO... all it means is Weber was a better 18 year old than Diaz was, but that has nothing to do with current value.

I believe that it does add to the debate because Diaz wasn't good enough to be drafted 8 years ago and was playing in an inferior Swiss league since, and he didn't get signed by an NHL club until the Swiss-friendly Habs took a shot on him. Good for Diaz to be able to come across and step into the NHL without much of a learning curve but the fact that he is 26 helps that process.

You failed to address the importance of the age difference. Three years is quite significant in development. Although Weber has been around for awhile now, he has actually only played 87 regular season games. He has been used on the 4th line probably almost as much as a defenseman. Try and explain how that is beneficial to the development of a young man trying to learn a position.

And how about the fact that he has more impressive numbers this year than Diaz? 4 powerplay goals puts him second on the whole team, despite being mostly used on the second unit. He has a higher points per game, better plus/minus, more shots, all while seeing less ice time.

I just think that when he is put in a position to succeed, that's what he does. 3 goals in 6 career playoff games is pretty good, albeit a small sample size. Weber has a higher ceiling than Diaz IMO, and I don't think we should be so quick to trade this young man before he has been given a true chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is an importance to the age difference but i think its balanced out by the fact that Diaz also has upside as he is still adjusting to the North American game. Both guys have room to grow IMO.

I don't put too much weight into the +/- difference when this team is bad, and Weber has played far less minutes.

Yes he has more goals, and pts per game, thats because he has a heck of a shot, as I alluded to. But its not like either guy is lighting the world on fire, so I'd rather keep the guy who has shown the ability to carry a regular shift on defence.

I'd rather keep the guy who has played better and who clearly has gained the confidence of the organization, and thats Diaz IMO.

Note I'm also not saying to give Weber away, I want a decent return for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair enough. I just don't think that Weber will bring back what I think is fair value for a 23 year old with a booming right handed shot. I think he would be further along in his development if it wasn't for management tinkering with him at forward. It seems like such a long time that I've been excited for him to be a regular on this team, and the thoughts of him getting traded before his peak disappoints me. That being said, if he were to be moved, I would do so as part of a package to land a bigger asset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always liked Weber and think of him as a part of the team moving forward. I don't know why everyone seems to be on the trade-him bandwagon. All the guy has done for us is what we've asked of him the last few years. The poor frigging guy gets bounced around from forward to defense as if it was grade school ball hockey. Pretty hard to learn a position if you don't consistently play it, if you ask me. He scored some clutch goals in the playoffs and regular season when called upon. His future didn't seem to be in doubt until his Swiss clone Diaz came along. Now I can understand why a team wouldn't need 2 players who are basically the same, but I don't know why Weber seems to be the odd man out. Weber has slightly better numbers than Diaz, is 3 years younger, was drafted 73rd overall (Diaz not all), and has more NHL/North American experience. If one of the Swiss has to go, ship out Diaz!

I agree,i'd keep Weber. More upside,a little more physical(not saying much) and younger. Won't get much more than a 3rd for Weber or 4th for Diaz imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want Weber traded until I see him on the right point playing with Kaberle on the PP. I said it in when Kab was aquired. He needs a lefty to pass to. Unfourtunately, subban and Kabs is not working. I would like to see Subban with Diaz and Kaberle with Weber for a few PPs. Weber has not had a good setup man very often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw this thread, after posting on another thread and am basically revised my posting for this thread.

While I want to stock up on picks this year, since we are NOT making the playoffs, I do want to make sure we aren't giving up a guy who still has to be a top 3 or top 4 dman. I know he is the same size, similar type of player RIGHT NOW as Diaz - heck they are both swiss born to boot - I think in another year or two, Weber will be the better dman.

Weber is a lot younger then Diaz, more skilled, has a better shot, is a bit more physical, still has the potential to become a lot stronger then Diaz as he gets a little older and starts training more in the off season. Nobody on this board disagrees about giving up or moving Subban given his age. However, for some reason no one is willing to give the same time for Weber to mature as a player. I get the Subban is clearly the better player, but whose to say tha Weber will not at least become better then Wiz was in another year or two - given that that he is given a REAL OPPPERTUNITY to develop as an NHL DEFENSEMAN.

i really have an issue on how Martin handled Weber. As i've said a number of times in previous posts, it makes zero sense to me that you would shuffle a 20 or 21 year old defenseman back and forth between forward and defense. Is there any wonder why he seems so lost out there??? It's one thing to do that with a 26 year old Streit, who actually has played the position for a number of years, but it just seems utter stupidity to do it with a kid learning the pro game.

Frankly, I think that if Weber is traded and given an oppertunity to DEVELOP as a DEFENSEMAN, within 2 years and he will be a MUCH better dman then diaz and could potentially be a top 3 or 4 dman.

I really don't think the habs should move Weber unless they can get a 2nd round pick - and even then, I think unless we made good use of that 2nd pick, we would probably regret the trade in two years. I don' think there will be a shortage of teams willing to give up a 2nd round pick for a young dman who has the potential to be a stud on the PP. I get we have a lot of right hand dman. I get that we have a guy in Diaz who RIGHT NOW seems very similar to Weber, but we are talking about two guys at very different times in their development and maturity, experience, as well as physically.

Frankly, if I had a choice of moving Kaberle or Weber at the deadline, I'd move Kaberle and work on improving and developing Weber. Defensively, Kaberle is as good as he will ever be - which is pretty crappy. IMO, Weber can become just as effective as Wiz was on the PP, but could also be much better defensively. While I get there is no room to have two similar dman in Weber and Diaz, does it really matter about keeping the better dman this year, when its a loss season anyways??? If weber does become the better dman next year, or the year after (when we are hopefully a playoff team), isn't it more important to have the better player at that time, then it is now???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw this thread, after posting on another thread and am basically revised my posting for this thread.

While I want to stock up on picks this year, since we are NOT making the playoffs, I do want to make sure we aren't giving up a guy who still has to be a top 3 or top 4 dman. I know he is the same size, similar type of player RIGHT NOW as Diaz - heck they are both swiss born to boot - I think in another year or two, Weber will be the better dman.

Weber is a lot younger then Diaz, more skilled, has a better shot, is a bit more physical, still has the potential to become a lot stronger then Diaz as he gets a little older and starts training more in the off season. Nobody on this board disagrees about giving up or moving Subban given his age. However, for some reason no one is willing to give the same time for Weber to mature as a player. I get the Subban is clearly the better player, but whose to say tha Weber will not at least become better then Wiz was in another year or two - given that that he is given a REAL OPPPERTUNITY to develop as an NHL DEFENSEMAN.

i really have an issue on how Martin handled Weber. As i've said a number of times in previous posts, it makes zero sense to me that you would shuffle a 20 or 21 year old defenseman back and forth between forward and defense. Is there any wonder why he seems so lost out there??? It's one thing to do that with a 26 year old Streit, who actually has played the position for a number of years, but it just seems utter stupidity to do it with a kid learning the pro game.

Frankly, I think that if Weber is traded and given an oppertunity to DEVELOP as a DEFENSEMAN, within 2 years and he will be a MUCH better dman then diaz and could potentially be a top 3 or 4 dman.

I really don't think the habs should move Weber unless they can get a 2nd round pick - and even then, I think unless we made good use of that 2nd pick, we would probably regret the trade in two years. I don' think there will be a shortage of teams willing to give up a 2nd round pick for a young dman who has the potential to be a stud on the PP. I get we have a lot of right hand dman. I get that we have a guy in Diaz who RIGHT NOW seems very similar to Weber, but we are talking about two guys at very different times in their development and maturity, experience, as well as physically.

Frankly, if I had a choice of moving Kaberle or Weber at the deadline, I'd move Kaberle and work on improving and developing Weber. Defensively, Kaberle is as good as he will ever be - which is pretty crappy. IMO, Weber can become just as effective as Wiz was on the PP, but could also be much better defensively. While I get there is no room to have two similar dman in Weber and Diaz, does it really matter about keeping the better dman this year, when its a loss season anyways??? If weber does become the better dman next year, or the year after (when we are hopefully a playoff team), isn't it more important to have the better player at that time, then it is now???

Weber has also scored some key goals,and he is younger. Benching him in this lost season makes no sense.having two similar small dmen on this small/soft defense once again shows the ineptness of PG/BG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMHO, trading him straight up is useless. We don't need to trade him for a 2nd and draft another Weber with this 2nd...

Weber fits the packaging bill where he is an interestind add. Something I wish the Habs will be able to avoid if it's not to upgrade AK46.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Way I see it is that having one smallish D-man is enough per team and Diaz appears to be better at all aspects of the game than Weber thereby making him redundant. The problem is I don't see him getting anywhere near a 2nd.

If a draft pick comes the other way then I am guessing nothing more than a 3rd however a more likely scenario would be Weber dealt for a player. Likely just a 4th line guy unless he is dealt with other assets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get a kick out those who blame marginal players for the loses. Case in point Weber is put on fourth line, and the reason they lost isn't that the top three lines are stinking the place up but the fourth line has a defenseman on it. Quite frankly it is smart to have an extra defenseman in the game. Also, I expect he will develop a lot faster on the ice than in the press box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get a kick out those who blame marginal players for the loses. Case in point Weber is put on fourth line, and the reason they lost isn't that the top three lines are stinking the place up but the fourth line has a defenseman on it. Quite frankly it is smart to have an extra defenseman in the game. Also, I expect he will develop a lot faster on the ice than in the press box.

One of the reasons for our bad season is the early season failure of PG to put together a 4th line capable of playing 10min a game. There were so many cheap UFA's/and avaialble players to do that.Weber should be on 3rd pair defense and 2nd wave pp.No business on a 4th line. Darsche,Blunden,Enquist,Palushaj and Nokie. There's a reason no one wanted the 3 vets,and the 2 rooks are ill-equipped for NHL 4th line duties

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Draft position matters nothing to the debate IMO... all it means is Weber was a better 18 year old than Diaz was, but that has nothing to do with current value.

I see Weber as only having one attribute that is better than Diaz, and thats a better slapshot.

Diaz is a better defender, is stronger, more positionally sound, a better passer, a better skater (especially lateral movement) and a smarter hokey player.

This is why Diaz has only missed 1 game all season as a healthy scratch (plus 2 with flu) while Weber is normally in that position.

Diaz is almost 3 years older and has played more games this year and has zero PP goals while Weber has 4? so almost like comparing Apples and Oranges and i would bet you in 3 years Weber will be a valuable puck mover and point producer for some team; but he is a nice movable asset but too bad we will likely trade him.

But; i really only see him going to a rebuilding team and maybe could be part of a package deal with a Plekanec or Desharnais (not that i want to move any of them, but 1 small centre should go and both have very fair contracts)?

By himself; Weber should be worth a 2nd rounder or equivalent forward prospect i would hope?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Diaz is almost 3 years older and has played more games this year and has zero PP goals while Weber has 4? so almost like comparing Apples and Oranges and i would bet you in 3 years Weber will be a valuable puck mover and point producer for some team; but he is a nice movable asset but too bad we will likely trade him.

But; i really only see him going to a rebuilding team and maybe could be part of a package deal with a Plekanec or Desharnais (not that i want to move any of them, but 1 small centre should go and both have very fair contracts)?

By himself; Weber should be worth a 2nd rounder or equivalent forward prospect i would hope?

Three years is usually a huge deal, but i don't think it is here. Sure Weber has room to grow. But seeing as how this is Weber's first season in North America on NHL sized ice, and Weber has been adjusting to that since he was playing for Kitchener in the OHL, I think that Diaz also has room to grow. The upside argument on age balances out by the fact that neither player is a finished product.

I do agree Weber will be a good player, I'm not convinced however that he'll be better than Diaz, and I'm not convinced that there is enough room for both of them on the team going forward. And thats the reason I move him. I'm not moving him for nothing, but I'd like to address an organizational weakness (lack of large forward prospects in the system) by moving out one player where the team has an abundance of them, and right now thats Right Handed Offensive Defencemen. I think you trade an excess piece who really doesn't fit with your team and try to find another team that would like him, and give up value for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Three years is usually a huge deal, but i don't think it is here. Sure Weber has room to grow. But seeing as how this is Weber's Diaz's first season in North America on NHL sized ice, and Weber has been adjusting to that since he was playing for Kitchener in the OHL, I think that Diaz also has room to grow. The upside argument on age balances out by the fact that neither player is a finished product.

I do agree Weber will be a good player, I'm not convinced however that he'll be better than Diaz, and I'm not convinced that there is enough room for both of them on the team going forward. And thats the reason I move him. I'm not moving him for nothing, but I'd like to address an organizational weakness (lack of large forward prospects in the system) by moving out one player where the team has an abundance of them, and right now thats Right Handed Offensive Defencemen. I think you trade an excess piece who really doesn't fit with your team and try to find another team that would like him, and give up value for him.

Typo :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I am on the keep Weber side of the fence he is so young and could still do something I would love to see him play 30 straight games on defense.

It does say something though that St. Denis and others were getting time over him.

Although Weber has been in NA longer Diaz has been a pro for about 7 years Weber only 3.

Back to the question of his vaule I would say a pervious 1st round pick of another team or an upcoming low first rounder or any 2nd rounder.

I doubt someone actually gives a 1st rounder in this upcoming draft thought will all the hype of how deep it is.

Weber could very well beocme one of the best PP specialasts in the game just needs time and the right partner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A team that might want him is New Jersey, since Pete DeBoer was his coach in Kitchener.

The are also 22nd in the league in PP % and yes that is better than us... but when you consider the fact that they have 24 PPG for, and 12 SHG against, compared to the Habs who have 23 PPGs for and 6 SH goals against, you might be able to make the case that the Devils PP is actually the least productive unit in the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First I would like to say I would only trade him if it was a good hockey deal for a player that could at some point be a top 6 forward.

I feel our defense is our deepest position as far as prospects go, I would like to see a deal where they would package weber + picks or prospect to a team that's in need of d. For example to Edmonton for a Magnus paajarvi. For a forward with some huge upside

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First I would like to say I would only trade him if it was a good hockey deal for a player that could at some point be a top 6 forward.

I feel our defense is our deepest position as far as prospects go, I would like to see a deal where they would package weber + picks or prospect to a team that's in need of d. For example to Edmonton for a Magnus paajarvi. For a forward with some huge upside

I really like this idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A team that might want him is New Jersey, since Pete DeBoer was his coach in Kitchener.

The are also 22nd in the league in PP % and yes that is better than us... but when you consider the fact that they have 24 PPG for, and 12 SHG against, compared to the Habs who have 23 PPGs for and 6 SH goals against, you might be able to make the case that the Devils PP is actually the least productive unit in the league.

I don't see that changing anytime soon as long as Kovalchuk continues to play on the point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see that changing anytime soon as long as Kovalchuk continues to play on the point.

On D, New Jersey is also regularly using Foster (3:18/gm), Larsson (2:17/gm), and Fayne (1:40/gm) on PPs.

I'm sure Larsson needs to stay there because he's being groomed for the future, but I think Weber would be an upgrade for Fayne on their second unit and DeBoer always liked him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...