Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[bbp]

People seem so sure about him getting fired so I just wanted to ask. Wouldnt suprise me at all if he is still around next season.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him around next year either, personally i wouldn't mind. I think he is good, but i really want to see who is brought into the coaching role.

[revvvrob]

People seem so sure about him getting fired so I just wanted to ask. Wouldnt suprise me at all if he is still around next season.

I'm happy if he stays but understand if he goes. I don't like the timing of Cammi trade or JM firing, but I'm ok with everything else he has done.

[Willey101]

I have heard many reports that Gauthier will simply step down at the conclusion of this season. Hopefully Gainey is quickly behind him. It's time to move on from the errors of Gauthier, Gainey, Boivin et al... and start afresh.

[JMMR]

I agree that a fresh start would be best.

[saskhab]

Columbus would probably want Pacioretty more. I think if you're actually going to try and get Nash, you gotta put Pacioretty on the table. Why go with Eller when you got Johansen in the system?

Max Pacioretty for the next 5 years will be a better player than Rick Nash for the next 5 years.

[sakiqc]

ALright, here are my proposals..

1. Go for Rick Nash

Rick Nash for Habs 3rd OVR + Eller + Holland and/or Gallagher + Weber + Gomez

2. Trade with Washington

Brouwer and Green for Markov and Subban.

3. Trade with Colorado

Stastny for Plekanec, Kaberle and Tinordi or Beaulieu

A bigger team, a team that can hit and score. We're heading for a change of philosophy and I'm sure the next GM is not going to cross arms and do nothing. I expect some kinds of important moves. We've got ingredients to make important trades. High pick, many interesting prospects (thanks to Timmins the "genius"), and good established players (Plekanec, one of the top 2-way centers in the league; Eller, promising player who develops well; Subban a soon to be allstar)

Nash Stastny Gionta

Pacioretty Desharnais Cole

Bourque Leblanc Brouwer

White Dumont Blunden

Gorges Green

Diaz Emelin

St. Denis

Price

Notes:

CBJ need to maintain floor, so they get Gomez, who will be a bargain for them since he's paid lway ess than his cap hit. I bet CBJ is on Gomez 3 teams he doesn'T want to go, but he'll reconsider when he's shown the AHL door

Caps will need to change chemistry when they'll once more be eliminated in the 1st round, markov will be great with the russians forwards. Green is a RFA and should make between 6-7M$

Colorado need to do something as well and can get help on D

[dlbalr]

Wait a second, you actually want Mike Green, he who has missed the equivalent of an entire season over the last two years? The same Mike Green whose offensive production on a per-game basis falls under that of Chris Campoli? And for that honour, you're okay with trading away Subban? Green was a top flight D a couple years ago, no doubt. He ain't close to that now. George McPhee has quite the decision on his hands - qualify him at $5.25 M or try and move him for pennies on the dollar. Brouwer's a good 2nd or 3rd liner and would be a nice fit but not worth losing Subban over.

I also wouldn't worry about the Jackets not hitting the floor, they have more committed money beyond this year than Montreal. They'll assuredly cut salary in the offseason but they'd be hard pressed to drop all the way to the minimum in one offseason unless they wind up taking strictly future assets in trades. Colorado, meanwhile, is a budget team; although Plekanec + the 1st round prospect is good value for them, Kaberle's inclusion without assuming another contract in return would likely sway them to say no, especially with players like Downie, Duchene, Johnson, and O'Reilly all to re-sign.

[Commandant]

I wouldn't do any of the three proposed trades? I don't understand the desire to strip all our young players for overpaid declining players in Nash, Green, and Stastny. Don't get me wrong I'd take two of those guys Nash and Stastny but not at the prices you are paying.

Those deals look like Quinn era leafs trades when they stripped the farm system for Owen Nolan, Brian Leetch, and Ron Francis etc...

[sakiqc]

Wait a second, you actually want Mike Green, he who has missed the equivalent of an entire season over the last two years? The same Mike Green whose offensive production on a per-game basis falls under that of Chris Campoli? And for that honour, you're okay with trading away Subban? Green was a top flight D a couple years ago, no doubt. He ain't close to that now. George McPhee has quite the decision on his hands - qualify him at $5.25 M or try and move him for pennies on the dollar. Brouwer's a good 2nd or 3rd liner and would be a nice fit but not worth losing Subban over.

I also wouldn't worry about the Jackets not hitting the floor, they have more committed money beyond this year than Montreal. They'll assuredly cut salary in the offseason but they'd be hard pressed to drop all the way to the minimum in one offseason unless they wind up taking strictly future assets in trades. Colorado, meanwhile, is a budget team; although Plekanec + the 1st round prospect is good value for them, Kaberle's inclusion without assuming another contract in return would likely sway them to say no, especially with players like Downie, Duchene, Johnson, and O'Reilly all to re-sign.

I don't think Green's done. He's recovering from abdominal surgery. If we say Green's career at 26 y.o. is over, what about Markov's?

Ok, good points about the Jackets. However, Gomez would be the price to pay to get the 3OVR and the youngsters.

Colorado needs to reach the floor. Stastny is a big 6M. Plekanec+Kaberle is about 10. I don't see them doing Stastny-Plekanec straight up.

I wouldn't do any of the three proposed trades? I don't understand the desire to strip all our young players for overpaid declining players in Nash, Green, and Stastny. Don't get me wrong I'd take two of those guys Nash and Stastny but not at the prices you are paying.

Those deals look like Quinn era leafs trades when they stripped the farm system for Owen Nolan, Brian Leetch, and Ron Francis etc...

We need a good mix of older guys and young guys. The thing is, with the current roster there is no room for Gallagher or any other prospects. And the current roster is not working: last in the East. We need to have the DD line as our 2nd. Plekanec is a premium 2 way center, but we need to improve the team and unfortunately he'll have to go if we want to improve the team overall.

Stastny is younger than Plekanec. Green and Nash are young. We have to pay appr. 2X as much as our estimated value to make it work. That's because we always tend to evaluate highly our own assets, and lowly of the other team's assets.

[dlbalr]

Colorado needs to reach the floor. Stastny is a big 6M. Plekanec+Kaberle is about 10. I don't see them doing Stastny-Plekanec straight up.

They'll easily reach the floor without getting Kaberle. Duchene is due for a big raise off his entry level deal, O'Reilly won't be getting 6 figures anymore, Erik Johnson will get a nice raise, as will Steve Downie. There's the 4 mil Kaberle makes...and a fair bit more too.

[Commandant]

Subban is better than Green right now. Much better defensively, and Green has lost his offence even when he does play. Green has also sucked hard in the playoffs.

Markov is infinitely better than Troy Brouwer.

NHL 12 would reject this trade from the Habs side of things.

[Davehab]

ya I have to agree i think we would be taking a huge step backwards with those trades.....

Pleks is better value than stasny, they produce the same but stasny is paid more

subban and markov are way better than green and brower

and lastly I would rather develop our own talent than take Nash...i like nash but we dont need another big contract...plus in 2-3 years (maybe even next season) the player we get with this pick will likely be producing close to what nash produces (70 - 80 points)...

[Commandant]

Nash has exactly one season in his career of over 70 pts...

In Most seasons he produces around what Cole and Pacioretty produced this year.

This year he put up less than them.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Pacioretty has one 30 goal season and now we're comparing him to one of the most consistent goal scorers since the lockout.

[Kiwihab]

That may be true, but would you trade patches for Nash? I'm not sure I would.

(null)

[BlueKross]

Although I would like a Nash and a Stasny the cost is prohibitive. I like the high draft choice in the mix along with 30 goal scorers Pax,Cole and Gionta. What I would caution against would be going back into SMURFDOM with Gionta, Desharnais, Plekanec and Gallagher all on the top six. Pick out your St Louis and move the rest. I also think you got too many similar bottom three defensemen. Need a big guy like Tinordi to replace Gill.

[Commandant]

Pacioretty has one 30 goal season and now we're comparing him to one of the most consistent goal scorers since the lockout.

Just as a good frame of reference of what to expect from Nash. What Pacioretty did this season is what Nash does every year. Thats not a bad thing. But is it something you give up the #3 overall pick plus two excellent prospects to get? I don't. Nash is a good player, but he's not in the class of elite players and at 7.8 million per season, and at that cost in terms of trade value wise, I'm not sure he's worth it.

Although I would like a Nash and a Stasny the cost is prohibitive. I like the high draft choice in the mix along with 30 goal scorers Pax,Cole and Gionta. What I would caution against would be going back into SMURFDOM with Gionta, Desharnais, Plekanec and Gallagher all on the top six. Pick out your St Louis and move the rest. I also think you got too many similar bottom three defensemen. Need a big guy like Tinordi to replace Gill.

There is a huge difference between Plekanec at 5'10 and guys like Desharnais who are 5'6. I've never seen Plekanec as a guy whose size holds him back in the defensive zone. Desharnais absolutely it does.

[BlueKross]

There is a huge difference between Plekanec at 5'10 and guys like Desharnais who are 5'6. I've never seen Plekanec as a guy whose size holds him back in the defensive zone. Desharnais absolutely it does.

I am just cautioning not to get too many little guys in the top six. I am not telling you who should go and who should stay. We have had as many as four pushing five. I would be thrilled if we could get it down to two.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Nothing wrong with adding big names like Stastny, Green, or Nash, but when you think about it it's almost impossible to see how the Habs could swing this. We have neither the surplus of elite young talent/high picks nor the bumper crop of desirable, elite veterans that would enable us to make such a deal without crippling the future.

It seems obvious to me that we would be certifiable, Grade-A morons to trade Price, Pacioretty, Subban, or our 1st-round pick this season. Good organizations do NOT trade those kind of young assets, unless it's to make a move that will put them over the top for the Stanley Cup (not an issue in our case). The three players listed are already stars in the NHL and none are over 25. Besides that, they're cheap in a cap system. If they weren't Habs, we would be enviously eyeing them and scheming to have the Habs acquire them ('trade Desharnais and Weber for Subban!! Yeah, the other team will leap at that offer!!!'). Unless the player you're getting back has a name like Stamkos, Malkin, Crosby, etc., moving them should be absolutely out of the question. As for our first-overall pick, give me a break. We FINALLY are positioned to draft a truly elite, no-brainer prospect. No way should we even think about trading it away.

The one player we had who I could have imagined going the other way on a big name deal was Mike Cammalleri, and he was traded for a bag of expensive pucks. Maybe Plekanec could be the key to a package - and obviously it'd have to be a package, including 2nd-round picks and other assets - bringing back a stud Big Name. That's about it. Given that most people want us to upgrade at C, this seems a strange direction to take.

It'd be great to bag a Parise on the UFA market. But other than that, the way forward for us is to hoard prospects, stay healthy, and look to add quality players who can be acquired without gutting the young core.

[Commandant]

I am just cautioning not to get too many little guys in the top six. I am not telling you who should go and who should stay. We have had as many as four pushing five. I would be thrilled if we could get it down to two.

I agree that we shouldn't have more than two small guys. I'm just saying that players who are 5'10 and above shouldn't be considered "small guys"... like a St. Louis, Gionta, Desharnais, etc... I don't put Plekanec in that same classification. Guys who are 5'10 and 5'11 don't face the same issues that guys like Gionta, Gallagher and Desharnais will face. For now, Gionta and Desharnais are on the team... on seperate lines. Gallagher starts in the AHL, and I don't see a huge problem with the rest of our size. Not at forward anyway. The area that this team needs to add size is on defence.... our forwards have plenty at this point in time.

[sakiqc]

We finished dead last in the Conference. There's a limit of what we can ask this group of player. Poor Plekanec, give the guy a break and let him have fun with Colorado or elsewhere. He's been a great guy for us and I wish him better years and play with talented players in a different system. I think he would fit nicely with the Avs.

If we don't give some of our prized assets, how will we be able to acquire some of the pieces that are missing to this club?

There's maybe no other team than the Caps that may be interested in Markov.

Subban's value is at a high level now. We probably even can sell him overpriced. We can acquire players that will fit important organizational needs now.

Things not to forget:

We finished last but we all know we have a good core and there's only a few missing pieces to make us competitive.

The next GM will likely be a guy like Brisson or Roy, someone who will want to make a few big moves and get the credit for taking a bottom-feeder up to a Stanley Cup contender. You know it. You also know there will be a new circus in town, and there won't be any bigger heads than Roy. This is why I'm not sure where Subban would fit in this new chemistry.

Finally, question about Rick Nash that I ask Nash's doubters: Besides Jeff Carter can you name me 2 wingers that have played on Nash's line during his career?

[Commandant]

Yes we have a good core... in trading Plekanec, Markov, Subban and the 1st round pick in your trades you have stripped that core.  In addition you've traded Gallagher, one of Tinordi/Beaulieu, and Eller... all guys who are growing and will be the complimentary pieces around that core.

We need to continue to build with young pieces.  Thats the only way to win in the NHL... build slowly.  There is no quick fix available.

I expect that next season we'll be back to fighting for a playoff spot, and in one or two seasons after that we can compete for the Stanley cup.

How?  By building around the franchise cornerstones that are a 24 year old goalie with franchise ability, a 22 year old defenceman who is already the team's best, a 22 year old winger who has already put up 30 goals, another highly drafted forward, Lars Eller a 22 year old centre whose shown two way ability.  Compliment those guys with vets like Gionta, Markov, and Plekanec, and add to it a stable of young up and coming Dmen, and a few talented wingers in Gallagher, Leblanc, and Kristo, and you've got a recipe for success.

Blow the whole thing up, and you've got a recipe that might work to make you a playoff team for a couple years, but not a true contender.  Then as Nash and Green decline, you've shipped out all our young assets and we look an awful lot like this years Calgary Flames or the 2007 Toronto Maple Leafs.  An aging club with nothing in the pipeline.

Its a recipe for disaster IMO.

As for Nash, again a good player, even a very good player but not a true elite one in the mould of a Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, etc....

[sakiqc]

It's not fair to talk about Nash and Green's declines, as they are 2 and 3 years younger than Plekanec. I understand that all trades we can propose won't probably work. But the fundamental is there. Trade SOME of your prized players to fit organizational needs, adding players that are still BEFORE their primes (not 31+ like Cammy, Gomez and Gionta).

The Habs will NEVER have the luxury of the Hawks, Pens or Oilers to sit at the basement and draft top 5 prospects for 5 years in a row. FORGET IT, won't ever happen. You can't compare Pacioretty, Subban, Gallagher, Holland and co to Kane, Toews, Hall, RNH, Eberle. We have to be realistic. Our young guys are great but no superstars. And we have too many of them. There is NO ROOM for Gallagher to play with the Habs next year, in 2 years or even in 3 years. Either we trade him or we make room for him.

Commandant: Nash DOES belong to the same group of players you've listed. He's right there on the Rocket Richard Trophy winners list. I haven't seen Pacioretty's name on there. Nash is not only an established star in the league, he's also a true gentlemen who is also very involved and appreciated in his community. He's not a hitter, but still definitely the kind of winger we need. Cole, Pacioretty, Nash... finally the Habs have some size on the wings. And there's a place for our valient veteran Gionta in there.

It would be difficult to keep both Plekanec and DD. Plekanec has probably more value, since he is a premium 2-way center. Would be great to keep him and have him play on a 3rd line with Bourque and Eller/Leblanc. However I'm not sure 3rd line is fitting for a guy like Plekanec that has not yet hit his prime.

[Commandant]

Nash has exactly 1 season above 70 pts... Rocket Richard or not (and his Rocket Richard was 41 goals, the lowest total for a Richard winner ever), thats still not enough to put him in the class of the guys I've listed.

He's a reliable 30 goal 60 pt guy, but I'm still not sure thats worth nearly 8 million a season and the level of prospects you need to trade to get him. I think he's overrated.

[sakiqc]

Next year will be Nash's NINTH season, and yet, he's still only 27 y.o. !

30 goals is the floor for Nash. He's got two 40+ goals seasons.

He's only missed significant time for injury once, in his 8 year career so far.

There's not many 6'4 wingers 30-40 goals scorers on the market. Commandant, you may be looking for the perfect player that does not exist. Oh, and you still haven't tell me the names of 2 wingers that have played with Nash during his 8 years career. I'll risk myself and name Huselius, but that's a wild guess.. not even sure they were on the same line.