Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[sakiqc]

Just imagine the past two seasons without Subban. The mind reels.

Yes, so how did the Habs fare the past two seasons with Subban?

How did the Habs fare without Markov?

Maybe he was out for too long, but I feel by reading our board that many seem to forget Markov was not only an offensive dman but a shutdown stud. He was one of the best all-around dman in the league.

And I'm sorry but I don't get what is wrong with Kaberle. It seems he was awful last year. Yes he had a tough time after leaving the Leafs for the Bruins and Canes. But with the Habs he played 43 games and was on pace for a 40pts+ season. Next season will be his 1st full season with the Habs and I expect him to play a larger role. He is one of the best offensive mind dman in the league. If Brian Campbell was able to rebound, why couldn't he? He is also our only other czech player and you want guys like him to develop chemistry with Plekanec on the PP.

I don't get why many here see everything negative about Kaberle and Markov, proven all stars, and gold about sophomore Subban. We can't dish Kaberle and Markov in the trash like that. The only thing Subban adds to those 2 is his punishing hits. If we want punishing hits, we have the real deal in Emelin.

I've read earlier in the thread the idea to swap Subban for Kane. Why not? I'd do it right now. Evander would be a great fit on our team.

[hab29RETIRED]

Comparing Kaberle to markov is like comparing a miata to a Porsche, just because both are supposed to good handling sporty cars.

Yes, so how did the Habs fare the past two seasons with Subban?

How did the Habs fare without Markov?

Maybe he was out for too long, but I feel by reading our board that many seem to forget Markov was not only an offensive dman but a shutdown stud. He was one of the best all-around dman in the league.

And I'm sorry but I don't get what is wrong with Kaberle. It seems he was awful last year. Yes he had a tough time after leaving the Leafs for the Bruins and Canes. But with the Habs he played 43 games and was on pace for a 40pts+ season. Next season will be his 1st full season with the Habs and I expect him to play a larger role. He is one of the best offensive mind dman in the league. If Brian Campbell was able to rebound, why couldn't he? He is also our only other czech player and you want guys like him to develop chemistry with Plekanec on the PP.

I don't get why many here see everything negative about Kaberle and Markov, proven all stars, and gold about sophomore Subban. We can't dish Kaberle and Markov in the trash like that. The only thing Subban adds to those 2 is his punishing hits. If we want punishing hits, we have the real deal in Emelin.

I've read earlier in the thread the idea to swap Subban for Kane. Why not? I'd do it right now. Evander would be a great fit on our team.

[Commandant]

Hey Sather absolutely stole Nash from Columbus. I can't believe Howaon waited this long to make such a stupid trade. Co differing the seaso may. It exem start in October, there was. I hurry to make this deal.

Another player with a depressed trade value because he demanded a deal, didn't want to stay in Columbus, and only give a trade list of 5 or 6 teams.

[Commandant]

Kaberle and Markov are both over a decade older than Subban.

Kaberle is good offensively, I'll give you that... but he needs sheltered defensive minutes.

Markov has barely played for 2 years because his knee.

And they replace Subban?

This might be the single dumbest thing I've read on the internet in at least a year.

[JoeLassister]

I'm with Matt for the Kaberle thing. I really believe that he is undervalued on this board and that next season could be a great one for him with PP time and limited time 5 on 5.

Where I disagree with him is about Subban. I would NEVER trade him for Evander Kane. Never. That would be the dumbest trade we'd made since Patrick Roy.

[RedSoloCup]

Whenever a trade proposition comes up everyone's suddenly untouchable - except the trash we cant give way let alone get anything valuable in return which makes us sound like Leaf fans.... This team finished last in their division and we expect an overhaul of our bottom 6 to bring us salvation? There's hope with all the prospects and a new coach amd we are on the right path but there's also a lot of praying going on that Gionta, Markov, Bourque, Gomez, Plekanecs, Armstrong, Kaberle bounce back from mediocre-horrendous seasons, don't see all that happening. If everyone's ok with a lottery pick again while we have a top 5 payroll next year fine, if we expect to do better still have to make some sacrifices. Be that Gionta/Gomez packaged to the Devils. Plekanecs or PK for a stud power forward, Bourque and spare parts/picks for a less risky top 6 or Markov dealt for a younger less injury prone player think they need to be considered.

[RedSoloCup]

I'm with Matt for the Kaberle thing. I really believe that he is undervalued on this board and that next season could be a great one for him with PP time and limited time 5 on 5.

Where I disagree with him is about Subban. I would NEVER trade him for Evander Kane. Never. That would be the dumbest trade we'd made since Patrick Roy.

E Kane's #s are almost identical to Iggy's after 3 years and same as Rick Nash last year. I get you like PK but to be fair if you are projecting Subban's potential you have to do that with Kane as well, it's not in the dumbest trade since Roy category.

[hankhab]

Trading Subban for Kane would be another bad trade in a long history of bad trades. We have a young star, who will only get better, loves playing in Montreal, the fans adore him, the thought of trading him for anything other than an outright superstar is total nonsense, I'm glad the individuals proposing such things are not running our team. As for Cammy, does he deserve being bashed for what went down last year? I don't think so, all he said was that the team, himself included, were playing like a bunch of losers, which was true. Just another panic trade in a long history of such trades (Chelios, Ribero, S Kostitsyn, Grabovski) by a team which seems to panic when a player does something they don't like, or something slightly out of line. If Cammy should be crapped on for anything, its his anemic play last season.

[Commandant]

Whenever a trade proposition comes up everyone's suddenly untouchable - except the trash we cant give way let alone get anything valuable in return which makes us sound like Leaf fans.... This team finished last in their division and we expect an overhaul of our bottom 6 to bring us salvation? There's hope with all the prospects and a new coach amd we are on the right path but there's also a lot of praying going on that Gionta, Markov, Bourque, Gomez, Plekanecs, Armstrong, Kaberle bounce back from mediocre-horrendous seasons, don't see all that happening. If everyone's ok with a lottery pick again while we have a top 5 payroll next year fine, if we expect to do better still have to make some sacrifices. Be that Gionta/Gomez packaged to the Devils. Plekanecs or PK for a stud power forward, Bourque and spare parts/picks for a less risky top 6 or Markov dealt for a younger less injury prone player think they need to be considered.

Yes we finished 15th... that doesn't mean making a panic trade of your number one defenceman who is 22 years old is a good idea.

Or trading Plekanec or Gionta as they are coming off bad seasons and their value is low is a good idea.

As for Gomez and Bourque... good luck trading them at all, never mind getting anything of value.

[bbp]

Whenever a trade proposition comes up everyone's suddenly untouchable - except the trash we cant give way let alone get anything valuable in return which makes us sound like Leaf fans.... This team finished last in their division and we expect an overhaul of our bottom 6 to bring us salvation? There's hope with all the prospects and a new coach amd we are on the right path but there's also a lot of praying going on that Gionta, Markov, Bourque, Gomez, Plekanecs, Armstrong, Kaberle bounce back from mediocre-horrendous seasons, don't see all that happening. If everyone's ok with a lottery pick again while we have a top 5 payroll next year fine, if we expect to do better still have to make some sacrifices. Be that Gionta/Gomez packaged to the Devils. Plekanecs or PK for a stud power forward, Bourque and spare parts/picks for a less risky top 6 or Markov dealt for a younger less injury prone player think they need to be considered.

It is very obvious that Montreal as an organization isn't going into panic mode. They are taking a couple years to get a strong base of prospects and then when the Beaulieu, Tinordi, Gally exc.. batch of prospects hit our team in a year or two we will have a really strong club. With that mentality they are going to try and hold onto young players like Subban, Max Pac, Price. When you are doing a retooling like Beregevin is it does not make sense to trade youth. Also I disagree that people say "no one is untouchable" but it does not depend on the player. It depends on the team's position. Subban is pretty damn close to untouchable because trading him for a young forward would cripple a already kinda weak defense. Who would step up to take those 24 minutes? Emelin and Diaz? Would they be able to play at Subban's compete level? I seriously doubt it. It would leave a huge whole in our team until our batch of defensive prospects get to the NHL level, it could lead to us rushing them in or simply throwing to much on their plate in their rookie years and have them be torn apart when they can't handle it.

On your list of players needing bounce back years... Kaberle redeemed his season when playing for us. He did very well, so he doesn't deserve to be on the list.

Markov didn't have a season to bounce back from considering he missed it all. Gionta was injured most of the season so a healthy Gionta will obviously produce more. All Armstrong needs to do is play solid bottom 6 minutes. That leaves Gomer and Bourque who without question need to play better...

Also why do people STILL talk about this powerforward stuff! We have Max and Cole... Gally on the way. Bourque when he is in a good mood. Pleks isn't soft, Eller plays a nice two way game, hell Gio scores most his goals from infront of the net anyways... It isn't like we are the incredibly small team we were pre Cole and Max Pac's emergence .

Trading Pleks for a PF would be great... until you realized we don't have a shutdown center and our PK tanks.... given the amount of penalties we will be take that would be catastrophic.

All in all we were tied for 2nd in OT loses... and had a better goal differential than nine of the teams ahead of us in the standings. We only needed minor changes, a few less injuries, and a comeback/coming out year by someone to fill in the top six to be back in the playoff hunt again. Have some patience and wait for the young guys to come up through the system in a couple years we will be happy Beregevin didn't go around panic trading our core!

We need to establish some credibility as an organization again, showing loyalty to star players making them feel secure will help us attract free agents, get them to sign for discounted rates... exc.

ANYWAYS thats my opinion, first long post I've made in a while normally I just add filler in threads haha

[kennedy]

Two words,chris chelios..

[hankhab]

I think we should maybe join this tread with the trade proposal tread? it seems like we're saying the same stuff over and over here. Or perhaps I'll start a "trade Thomas Plekanics" tread, to get some diff ideas?

[JMMR]

I think we should maybe join this tread with the trade proposal tread? it seems like we're saying the same stuff over and over here. Or perhaps I'll start a "trade Thomas Plekanics" tread, to get some diff ideas?

Good call I will make it so.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Trading Plekanec for a power forward is silly. We have two power forwards at the moment (Pacioretty, Cole) and Galchenyuk is a power forward at center who will be ready in a season or two. Lars Eller is no pushover, two of our midgets are feisty (Gionta, Gallagher) and by then, you still need skilled players to play with them.

The way people underestimate the importance of Plekanec is just sad to me. He finished 29th in scoring for centermen with no wing support all year. That's a Mats Sundin move right there. He had 9 points less than DD and DD had Cole and Pacioretty almost the entire season. He's an elite penalty killer and his drop in points this year was less goals, not less assists. Honestly, you don't trade Plekanec unless you truly have a player to replace what he brings. Galchenyuk isn't replacing Plekanec. He's replacing Desharnais.

[Commandant]

Give Pleks real 2nd line capable wingers, and put a legit top line centre in front of him (hopefully Galchenyuk soon).... and you'll get one of the best 2nd liners in the NHL who will put up points and be a selke contender.

Just wait.

[JoeLassister]

E Kane's #s are almost identical to Iggy's after 3 years and same as Rick Nash last year. I get you like PK but to be fair if you are projecting Subban's potential you have to do that with Kane as well, it's not in the dumbest trade since Roy category.

I wouldn't sacrifice Subban for last season's Nash or the 10 years ago Iginla either. If we want a SC anytime soon, Subban has to stay and be our #1 dman when that happens or we should just start from scratch all over again.

[sakiqc]

Give Pleks real 2nd line capable wingers, and put a legit top line centre in front of him (hopefully Galchenyuk soon).... and you'll get one of the best 2nd liners in the NHL who will put up points and be a selke contender.

Just wait.

And how are we doing that sir? Not by trading Weber and Eller.

Kaberle and Markov are both over a decade older than Subban.

Kaberle is good offensively, I'll give you that... but he needs sheltered defensive minutes.

Markov has barely played for 2 years because his knee.

And they replace Subban?

This might be the single dumbest thing I've read on the internet in at least a year.

Wow Commandant, that's pretty offensive. We may not agree on the evaluation of those players, but you need to calm down there.

Markov and Kaberle are proven all-stars on their owns. How can you say they replace or not Subban, a sophomore who hasn't accomplished anything yet? He isn't there yet. Not saying he won't soon. I'm speechless to read in this board the incredible evaluation of Subban and the no-recognition for the talent of Markov and Kaberle.

Does next year success depends more on Subban improving from a difficult sophomore season, or Markov returning to form after 2 years off the ice with freakish injuries?

Do we expect Kaberle to be a shutdown D stud next year? He has never been and won't be. But I'm still overjoyed we have him on our roster. He is an outstanding offensive D and adds a great dimension to our team. Not many teams can count on so many gifted offensive D. I am confident he will be even much better in his 1st full season with the Habs.

If I want to trade Subban it's not because I think he is not good or that he won't be better than Markov soon. It is because I am realist. He is the player that can get us the most return via trade. If we don't give we won't get! Pronger was traded for Shanahan. Johnson was traded for Carter. Those types of deal can work.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

And how are we doing that sir? Not by trading Weber and Eller.

Wow Commandant, that's pretty offensive. We may not agree on the evaluation of those players, but you need to calm down there.

Markov and Kaberle are proven all-stars on their owns. How can you say they replace or not Subban, a sophomore who hasn't accomplished anything yet? He isn't there yet. Not saying he won't soon. I'm speechless to read in this board the incredible evaluation of Subban and the no-recognition for the talent of Markov and Kaberle.

Does next year success depends more on Subban improving from a difficult sophomore season, or Markov returning to form after 2 years off the ice with freakish injuries?

Do we expect Kaberle to be a shutdown D stud next year? He has never been and won't be. But I'm still overjoyed we have him on our roster. He is an outstanding offensive D and adds a great dimension to our team. Not many teams can count on so many gifted offensive D. I am confident he will be even much better in his 1st full season with the Habs.

If I want to trade Subban it's not because I think he is not good or that he won't be better than Markov soon. It is because I am realist. He is the player that can get us the most return via trade. If we don't give we won't get! Pronger was traded for Shanahan. Johnson was traded for Carter. Those types of deal can work.

Kaberle is a useful player, used correctly. You're right that he has been wrongly maligned on this board, but he still needs sheltered minutes. Markov is a gigantic question mark. Subban is an up and comer who will quite likely be one of the top defenders in the NHL for years to come. That is a 'realistic' assessment.

And remember that when Markov was healthy and in his prime, he still was not enough to make us a strong team. The idea that we can be just fine with ONE elite-talent defenceman is factually wrong. Add to that Markov's current state as injury-prone and possibly permanently damaged goods, you're talking about destroying our defence corps in a manner that will make it impossible for us to contend for years to come. No matter how you slice it -whether Markov has 10 more years of peak performance, whether Beaulieu steps in as a powerhouse - we will need PK Subban. Look at Nashville, they had both Ryan Suter and Shea Weber and even that was not enough. Detroit had Lidstrom AND Rafalski.

What is it, exactly, that you hope to receive back in return for Subban anyway? A 70-point LW? How will that compensate for the loss of the guy who has been our best defender two years running and who has only begun to scratch the surface of his NHL potential? Consider that the Rangers absolutely refused to move ANY of their best young defencemen for Rick Nash. That's because they're smart.

Now, if you're saying you want to move Subban to get Malkin or Stamkos, that's another matter. We all agree that we'd move PK for a bona-fide franchise player. Other than that, he's Chris Chelios. You don't move him and will regret it if you do. I guarantee you that.

[JoeLassister]

If I want to trade Subban it's not because I think he is not good or that he won't be better than Markov soon. It is because I am realist. He is the player that can get us the most return via trade. If we don't give we won't get! Pronger was traded for Shanahan. Johnson was traded for Carter. Those types of deal can work.

These kind of deals are good when you are NOT trading your best player at a certain position. More easy to do when you have a Doughty + Scuderi + Mitchell + Martinez.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The comparisons on Chelios and Subban are pretty remarkable. Chelios has much better numbers due to playing for a better team and being in the high offence 80s but Subban winning a Norris in his sixth season is not out of the question, especially since he's already playing top minutes. And much like Robinson did for Chelios, Markov can be the veteran that teaches Subban how to be a number one in the league.

Two players will never be the same but there's precedent for the Chelios/Subban comparisons.

Also, if you compare Jack Johnson to P.K. Subban you know nothing about Jack Johnson. The guy was Brisebois bad at times on L.A.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't want to insult anybody, but I really suspect that the 'trade Subban' folks are younger folks who haven't been around long enough to realize just what a rare gem Subban is. I was in my teens when Chelios was playing for us, and while I knew he was good, it was only after we lost him that I began to recognize the magnitude of what we threw away. In the subsequent 20 years the only Habs defenceman to come close was Markov, and like I say, Subban is a much, much better defenceman at this age than Markov was. So you're talking our best young defenceman in almost 30 years. This kid is what hockey fans and organizations dream about, an up-and-comer with all-around elite talent and flair to burn. Trading him away for anything other than a franchise talent is insane.

[Commandant]

I don't want to insult anybody, but I really suspect that the 'trade Subban' folks are younger folks who haven't been around long enough to realize just what a rare gem Subban is. I was in my teens when Chelios was playing for us, and while I knew he was good, it was only after we lost him that I began to recognize the magnitude of what we threw away. In the subsequent 20 years the only Habs defenceman to come close was Markov, and like I say, Subban is a much, much better defenceman at this age than Markov was. So you're talking our best young defenceman in almost 30 years. This kid is what hockey fans and organizations dream about, an up-and-comer with all-around elite talent and flair to burn. Trading him away for anything other than a franchise talent is insane.

Exactly correct.

There quite simply is no one in the organization at any level who can replace what Subban brings to the table. No one.

Thinking that Kaberle (and I've defended him), who is good offensively but horrible defensively can do it is crazy talk.

Thinking that Markov will reach that form again, is possible but such a huge risk due to his health that I don't see why you would take that, never mind the fact that having 2 elite D would make us far more successful than one.

[Commandant]

And how are we doing that sir? Not by trading Weber and Eller.

How do we surround Plekanec with good 2nd line capable wingers?

I don't know.... get 2 of Collberg, Kristo, Leblanc, Gallagher, Bozon, Hudon, Quailer, Holland, Palushaj, Geoffrion, and all our other prospects to develop?

or

Sign them as a free agent (in 2 years with Markov, Kaberle, Gomez, Gionta all expiring we are gonna have a boat load of cash)

or

Draft another one.

or

Trade one of the prospects who hasn't proven themselves in a package... not Weber, you won't get anything for him... but you will get value for Beaulieu for example.

There are options here.

We have some time, I said when Galchenyuk becomes the number 1 centre we want.

Also I'm talking about 2nd line wingers here.... not elite players.

[sakiqc]

I'm not a "trade Subban" guy. What I'm saying is that he is our best trade asset. If we're saying we want to improve Plekanec's line, we have to give something. Trading Subban by himself can improve significantly our team. If we want to IMPROVE our team AND keep Subban, what are other options? I want to hear them. What other trade assets do we have? I'm saying it would hurt the team A LOT more. I would LOVE to have that elite winger AND Subban, don't get me wrong. Just saying I doubt it's realistic.

[bbp]

I'm not a "trade Subban" guy. What I'm saying is that he is our best trade asset. If we're saying we want to improve Plekanec's line, we have to give something. Trading Subban by himself can improve significantly our team. If we want to IMPROVE our team AND keep Subban, what are other options? I want to hear them. What other trade assets do we have? I'm saying it would hurt the team A LOT more. I would LOVE to have that elite winger AND Subban, don't get me wrong. Just saying I doubt it's realistic.

Personally I say let this year be with the roster we have and lets look to the 2nd/3rd years of the Bergy era to pick up that 2nd line winger and really make this team a top competitive team.