Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[RedSoloCup]

3 trades totally nhl 2012

kaberle/weber

to nashville

draft picks

those picks and bourque

to nj

for 1st

gomez and 2 firsts

to cal

bouw

sign

semin

and doan

if not doan, grab ak on a cheap deal to fill in??????

Please, please no more AK!!

Seen posts by Jersey fans about trying to bring back Gionta to replace Parise as captain, hate to lose him but if we could tie him to Gomez as a package deal for maybe Clarkson gives us another big body up front - don't know if David would repeat his 30 goals from last year - but still a solid top 6 winger. And before people write off Gomez in the deal there was also talk about the Devils flipping centre Zajac to the Wild to play with Parise (would be funny if they dealt him for Heatley and reunited Dany with Ilya), this puts the Devils in the market for a centre and if anyone could get Scotty back playing it would be Lou and reuniting the EGG line would help the jersey fans forget Parise - somewhat. Clears $9+ million off our cap to take a run at Doan and regardless of what anyone says, if there's a way to avoid demoting a veteran like Gomez to the minors and paying him $10MM MB/Molson will do it.

Pacs/DD/Cole

Doan/Pleks/Clarkson

Bourque/Eller/Armstrong

Prust/White/Moen

Considerably tougher and 3 x 30 goal scorers

[Willey101]

Clarkson won't hit 30 goals again for one but I think this is a pipedream no way NJ would consider such a thing when there are better options out there.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Stop proposing trades that are you trying to take advantage of another team. If you ever say to yourself, "I want that player" and then say, "I don't want to trade this player for him" you're probably now closer to the value than what you originally wanted to propose.

For example, if we want Clarkson? Better to be ready to say goodbye to Gorges.

[RedSoloCup]

Stop proposing trades that are you trying to take advantage of another team. If you ever say to yourself, "I want that player" and then say, "I don't want to trade this player for him" you're probably now closer to the value than what you originally wanted to propose.

For example, if we want Clarkson? Better to be ready to say goodbye to Gorges.

I don't put the blinders on when looking at potential deals. Forget the salaries, Gomez averaged 65 pts a year in a Devils jersey, Gionta 55 - for whatever reason it hasn't worked out in Montreal (moreso for Scotty) but these guys are still young and tough to think they've forgotten how to play. Clarkson is a 28 year old soon to be UFA that until last season averaged 14 goals/year. New Jersey are struggling to attract fans which became tougher when Parise left. Bringing back 2/3rds of their top line from 5 years ago and the novelty of the Gio brothers playing together isn't a terrible marketing ploy but these guys should bounce back to form. Clarkson is far from a lock to repeat 30 goals so this has the potential to backfire huge in Montreal's face - insert salary dump here - that's the offset to the scales and potential to get Doan (see Semins off the market).

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I don't put the blinders on when looking at potential deals.

Gomez averaged 65 pts a year in a Devils jersey

Bringing back 2/3rds of their top line from 5 years ago

Are you sure you do not want to detract your first statement?

[RedSoloCup]

Are you sure you do not want to detract your first statement?

Not at all, just referencing their time in Jersey as my main point was them returning to form in a system they previously thrived in and without the pressure of being in Montreal. If you prefer, for their careers Scotty is 62 pts, Gio 53 pts & Clarkson 32 pts (extrapolated to 82 GP). If you focus on last season, absolutely it's a poor deal for the Devils but if that deal was offered in any of the previous 5 years we'd think Gainey/Gauthier totally lost it. If you've ever played the stock market, most investors would look at Gio/Gomez as good buys - low price (in trade value) and high upside to career trend, Clarkson would be a good sell - all time high and big drop to career trend. NJ was in on Semin and lost out so still looking to replace Parise and reports are they'd like to bring Brian back, if you look at their roster the only guys I would consider are Zajac or Clarkson (don't think we'd get Henrique or Larsson) and Travis is probably bolting at year end to play in Minny with Zach - if he's not traded away 1st.

Edited July 26, 2012 by RedSoloCup

[JGC21]

Not at all, just referencing their time in Jersey as my main point was them returning to form in a system they previously thrived in and without the pressure of being in Montreal. If you prefer, for their careers Scotty is 62 pts, Gio 53 pts & Clarkson 32 pts (extrapolated to 82 GP). If you focus on last season, absolutely it's a poor deal for the Devils but if that deal was offered in any of the previous 5 years we'd think Gainey/Gauthier totally lost it. If you've ever played the stock market, most investors would look at Gio/Gomez as good buys - low price (in trade value) and high upside to career trend, Clarkson would be a good sell - all time high and big drop to career trend. NJ was in on Semin and lost out so still looking to replace Parise and reports are they'd like to bring Brian back, if you look at their roster the only guys I would consider are Zajac or Clarkson (don't think we'd get Henrique or Larsson) and Travis is probably bolting at year end to play in Minny with Zach - if he's not traded away 1st.

Okay, I'll bite.

Why would NJ bring back two players (who left for money because NJ can't afford them) for $13M/yr who are pretty much past their prime? On top of that, after losing Parise - they're going to trade their second best forward in Clarkson?! While we're at it, let's offer them Stephane Richer as well!

[RedSoloCup]

Okay, I'll bite.

Why would NJ bring back two players (who left for money because NJ can't afford them) for $13M/yr who are pretty much past their prime? On top of that, after losing Parise - they're going to trade their second best forward in Clarkson?! While we're at it, let's offer them Stephane Richer as well!

Salary is $10MM/year, 32/33 is hardly past prime if you look at the number of guys excelling close to 40, Gionta returning is rumored elsewhere not my creation, Kovy, Elias, Henrique, Zajac might argue with you on Clarkson being their best forward, he's a potential one year wonder, he's a UFA and might walk for nothing or want insane money, Lou knows hockey's a business people come and go, and finally cause Richer looked like he could still play in our top 6 when he skated at the battle of the blades and he's our last 50 goal man

[Willey101]

Red

There is no chance that NJ takes back Gomez. It just won't happen. Nobosy wanted him 3 years ago let alone now after 2 back to back bust season. A team might take a chance on him if we sweetened it by adding an elite prospect to the trade sort of similar to when SJS acquired Malakhov from NJ in exchange for a 1st rounder +.

As for Gionta, sure there is a chance he'd go back to NJ. Afterall NJ still wanted his services before he signed in MTL, Gainey just came in with higher term. I will say however that there is no chance that he would be dealt in exchange for Clarkson.

In a hypothetical if Gio was dealt back to NJ it would be in exchange for something like Dainus Zubrus and a 2nd rounder.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Red is right about one thing - the Devils are probably reeling a bit from the loss of Parise and may be looking to add talent up front. The likelihood of them adding Gomez is, as Elvis Costello said, less than zero, because one thing that organization is not is stupid; they might take Gionta back but only on the cheap. Certainly they're not going to damage their core to get an aging Gio, who even at his best was no Parise.

[Willey101]

Red is right about one thing - the Devils are probably reeling a bit from the loss of Parise and may be looking to add talent up front. The likelihood of them adding Gomez is, as Elvis Costello said, less than zero, because one thing that organization is not is stupid; they might take Gionta back but only on the cheap. Certainly they're not going to damage their core to get an aging Gio, who even at his best was no Parise.

So what you are saying is that we are not trading Gomez for Henrique?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Red is right about one thing - the Devils are probably reeling a bit from the loss of Parise and may be looking to add talent up front. The likelihood of them adding Gomez is, as Elvis Costello said, less than zero, because one thing that organization is not is stupid; they might take Gionta back but only on the cheap. Certainly they're not going to damage their core to get an aging Gio, who even at his best was no Parise.

The Devils lost 31 goals and yeah, they would add Gionta in hopes he could replace a few of them. But why not just add Andrei Kostitsyn for free? Better question, if New Jersey thinks Gionta can still score say 25 goals, why the hell would Montreal get rid of him? And why would they give up a 30 goal scorer in Clarkson? Sykora is still a UFA and he put in 21 for the Devils and former Devil Jason Arnott is still on the market with the ability to score 20+.

I don't know if it was so much blinders for Red Solo Cup as it is living in a bubble.

[RedSoloCup]

Fair enough. Is it some wishful thinking on my part? Yup? Have stranger things happened? Yup. Tanguay & Jokinen were driven out of town with good riddance - only to be brought back by Sutter as UFAs to everyones disappointment - outside of Iggy they've been their best fwds. A week ago Webers agent was burning bridges in Nashville and now they're all one big happy family - Lou will do what's best for his team. I don't see it a stretch for Gomez & Gionta to reunite with Elias and pick up where they left off - Scotty had 70 pts in NY, 58 1st year in Mtl before the wheels totally came off. Playing for JM and the pressure in Mtl and injuries are largely to blame. So Lou rolls the dice for $10MM over 2 years that he bounces back. He's never been a bad teammate and for a team coming off a Stanley Cup Finals loss adding a guy with 2 Cup rings and a great playoff track record isn't the worse thing you could do - that would be dropping $4MM/yr probably on a longer term deal to bring in AK and his 15 goals and off ice distractions. Adding another centre gives Lou the flexibility to deal pending UFA Zajac for Heatley (another high cap/low salary guy). Now you have 2 pretty good top lines with Henrique between Dany & Ilya and the EGG line. Clarkson is a career 15 goal scorer who put up 30 last year, Gionta is a career 27 goal scorer coming off an injury plagued year, its a bigger risk of Clarkson repeating than Brian. So why does Mtl trade him? Pleks & Gionta are too small IMO to play on the same line and you take the chance Clarkson can repeat and the cap space you free up packaging Gomez off allows you to pick up another top 6 fwd - thread starting with Doan but his asking price is ridiculous so maybe Arnott as a stop gap for 2 yrs. Yes the same is accomplished by burying Scotty in the minors but I'm sure Molson would rather have $10MM in his pocket given a choice.

[Commandant]

Gionta and Gomez's best season was when Elias did not play much due to Heptitis. so much for picking up where they left off.

Plus just because a few crazy moves happened in the past, that isn't a logical justification for the illogical and irrational moves you are suggesting the Devils would make.

[RedSoloCup]

Thanks Spock for the reality check, I prefer to set the bar high and let the other guy decide market value, we don't have to sell. Gauthier/Gainey always took the defeatus attitude and got swindled, 28 other GMs wouldve gotten Perron or Backes out of St Louis for Halak or shopped him elsewhere.

[Commandant]

OK, I won't take the defeatist attitude... I'll take yours.

So what do you guys think, would it be a good deal for Montreal to trade Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque and a 5th round pick for Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby?

We could do it... Malkin has a bad knee and Crosby has concussion issues. I bet the Penguins are just dying for Gomez a former 89 point scorer, Kaberle a top PP guy, Bourque who could get 30 goals, and that 5th round pick could be the next Jamie Benn.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

OK, I won't take the defeatist attitude... I'll take yours.

So what do you guys think, would it be a good deal for Montreal to trade Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque and a 5th round pick for Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby?

We could do it... Malkin has a bad knee and Crosby has concussion issues. I bet the Penguins are just dying for Gomez a former 89 point scorer, Kaberle a top PP guy, Bourque who could get 30 goals, and that 5th round pick could be the next Jamie Benn.

Pittsburgh would do it too because they need the cap space, probably think if they didn't have the Crosby/Malkin contracts they would have got Parise/Suter so this helps them when Getzlaf and Perry are available. Montreal might need to fit under the cap still so I think we can trade Gionta and a 2nd for Evander Kane since he's not signing in Winnipeg and they will want some goals.

[RedSoloCup]

OK, I won't take the defeatist attitude... I'll take yours.

So what do you guys think, would it be a good deal for Montreal to trade Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque and a 5th round pick for Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby?

We could do it... Malkin has a bad knee and Crosby has concussion issues. I bet the Penguins are just dying for Gomez a former 89 point scorer, Kaberle a top PP guy, Bourque who could get 30 goals, and that 5th round pick could be the next Jamie Benn.

Throw in Neal and we have a deal...

IF reports are true that Jersey want Gionta the minimum I want back is Clarkson.

IMO that is not an even trade given their historical stats and the fact they're the ones kicking tires not us so I'd also want a pick, say 4th rounder.

If that's out to lunch for some people fine, we keep Gio and they keep looking.

IF they'd like to take on Gomez's salary we give them that 4th rounder back.

At the end of the day the Devils basically get to keep their 4th rounder, Scotty with a 50/50 chance to put up 50 points and Gionta with a great chance to match/exceed Clarksons goal totals - be that 15 or 30.

We're in the drivers seat, we can keep Brian and bury Scotty in the minors if we need to clear cap space

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Thanks Spock for the reality check, I prefer to set the bar high and let the other guy decide market value, we don't have to sell. Gauthier/Gainey always took the defeatus attitude and got swindled, 28 other GMs wouldve gotten Perron or Backes out of St Louis for Halak or shopped him elsewhere.

Yeah, Gainey sure took a defeatist attitude when getting Huet for nothing from L.A. and getting Josh Gorges and a first for Craig Rivet. He also picked up Kovalev for a 2nd and Jozef Balej and cleared Theodore's massive contract without taking any serious cap back. Aside from the Ribiero trade his trading history up until 2009 was quite good. It was in 2009 that he started relying on Gauthier more.

Anyway, I'd hate to live in your trade bubble because nothing must seem to go your way with the trade proposals you make. They are simply not grounded in reality and focus only on the worst trades in the last 20 years in hopes that Montreal can repeat that with another team. Especially on one of the best GMs in NHL history in Lou Lammorello.

[Commandant]

Throw in Neal and we have a deal...

IF reports are true that Jersey want Gionta the minimum I want back is Clarkson.

IMO that is not an even trade given their historical stats and the fact they're the ones kicking tires not us so I'd also want a pick, say 4th rounder.

If that's out to lunch for some people fine, we keep Gio and they keep looking.

IF they'd like to take on Gomez's salary we give them that 4th rounder back.

At the end of the day the Devils basically get to keep their 4th rounder, Scotty with a 50/50 chance to put up 50 points and Gionta with a great chance to match/exceed Clarksons goal totals - be that 15 or 30.

We're in the drivers seat, we can keep Brian and bury Scotty in the minors if we need to clear cap space

Not sure if the bolded parts are serious.

My god, I didn't realize there were actually people who thought this way.

[patience is a virtue]

There is one good point Red Solo has made - Gio is too small. In a top nine that includes DD and soon Gallagher, it would not be unwise to trade Gio if a bigger top six winger can be had in return. Gio has value and something could happen.

That said, no trade discussion should include Gomez. The only long shot hope for him is a rebirth in Montreal.

[Commandant]

There is one good point Red Solo has made - Gio is too small. In a top nine that includes DD and soon Gallagher, it would not be unwise to trade Gio if a bigger top six winger can be had in return. Gio has value and something could happen.

That said, no trade discussion should include Gomez. The only long shot hope for him is a rebirth in Montreal.

Gallagher is still a couple years away from being a top 6er. He might be a third liner, but he's not ready to be in the top 6 yet. There is no reason why we can't have DD on one line... Gionta on a second and Gallagher on a third. As long as you don't have two of them on the same line, you are fine.

If you can move Gionta for someone bigger without downgrading the talent level, sure do it. But lets remember that Gio has led our team in goals in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and we are a team that doesn't score enough goals to begin with. Right now we have 3 capable top 6 wingers in Cole, Patches, and Gionta. We need to add a 4th, and while I'm fine with moving Gionta in a lateral move for a bigger player, we can not afford to trade him if we aren't getting the same talent back.

Now that said, what team is willing to trade us a BIG 25-30 goal scorer for Gionta who is a small one, coming off an injury, and is getting older? Why does another team do this? And "because he was good in New Jersey before" isn't really a justification of that.

[patience is a virtue]

Gallagher is still a couple years away from being a top 6er. He might be a third liner, but he's not ready to be in the top 6 yet. There is no reason why we can't have DD on one line... Gionta on a second and Gallagher on a third. As long as you don't have two of them on the same line, you are fine.

If you can move Gionta for someone bigger without downgrading the talent level, sure do it. But lets remember that Gio has led our team in goals in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and we are a team that doesn't score enough goals to begin with. Right now we have 3 capable top 6 wingers in Cole, Patches, and Gionta. We need to add a 4th, and while I'm fine with moving Gionta in a lateral move for a bigger player, we can not afford to trade him if we aren't getting the same talent back.

Now that said, what team is willing to trade us a BIG 25-30 goal scorer for Gionta who is a small one, coming off an injury, and is getting older? Why does another team do this? And "because he was good in New Jersey before" isn't really a justification of that.

I agree with all of the above, except that I would like to do better than "fine" with one midget (er, "little people" is the politically correct term I believe) on each of our top three lines.

But I do agree about Gio. He is probably still a 25-30 goal scorer if he can stay healthy. That is exactly why we should jump at an opportunity to leverage his remaining value for a younger, bigger top six winger, IF MB can swing it. Gio is perfect for a team that needs leadership and determination - something the Habs have in abundance. Add a pick, prospect, or player (Weber?) to sweeten the pot if necessary.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Let's not forget that Gio has a NTC and is our captain.

I value leadership a lot and losing Gill means less leaders in the room. Losing Gionta could lead to a split locker room again and I would like those days to be in the past.

You can have all the skill on your team but without leadership you're lost.

[patience is a virtue]

Let's not forget that Gio has a NTC and is our captain.

I value leadership a lot and losing Gill means less leaders in the room. Losing Gionta could lead to a split locker room again and I would like those days to be in the past.

You can have all the skill on your team but without leadership you're lost.

Agreed.

But with Gorges, Cole, Moen, Pleks and Markov, plus DD, Patches, Price, Prust and Boullion setting the tone I am not worried about leadership, determination/grit, or locker room splits.

The NTC is the bigger issue for sure. He would have to want to go back to NJ.