Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Neech]

It's a tough call. Part of me prefers the Plekanec-for-Edler rumours to these scenarios.

What we really should be looking for is another "Josh Gorges" scenario. Not that type of player specifically, but some defenceman who our scouts think has potential beyond what he has been given the opportunity to demonstrate on his current team. I don't know who that player might be, of course. But it may be that a guy like Myers is, probably, too big a name, with too much invested in him by his current club, to be moveable without high-risk sacrifices to our own prospect pool.

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that sitting tight with our D might be the best option, or making minor future-looking moves like acquiring a Gorges-type. This year and possibly the next we'll probably be shaky, but with a core of Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu and maybe another one of our numerous prospects we should be in good shape. This could be supplemented with a veteran UFA, and who knows how much Markov has left in him.

I'll add that it's easier to contemplate a Plekanec trade after a relatively flat four games to start the year, but he's a player who we know will come around and be his reliable old self.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that sitting tight with our D might be the best option, or making minor future-looking moves like acquiring a Gorges-type. This year and possibly the next we'll probably be shaky, but with a core of Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu and maybe another one of our numerous prospects we should be in good shape. This could be supplemented with a veteran UFA, and who knows how much Markov has left in him.

I'll add that it's easier to contemplate a Plekanec trade after a relatively flat four games to start the year, but he's a player who we know will come around and be his reliable old self.

Oh, don't worry, I am huge admirer of Pleks and don't want to trade him. I'm just saying that, given the arc we're on, Pleks-for-Edler makes more sense than big-chunks-of-the-farm for Myers. That doesn't mean it actually makes a ton of sense.

My concern is that "sitting tight" with this D may mean missing the playoffs. If we had Emelin and perhaps even a (fit and functioning) Murray, I'd be less pessimistic, though still concerned. But with the injuries and the now-obvious decline of #79, we could find ourselves in too deep a hole to climb out of. So my ideal recipe would either be a reclamation project of the Keith Ballard variety, or else an under-the-radar Gorges-type of acquisition. Standing pat likely won't cut it, at least if we care about success this season.

[Neech]

In a month we might have a clogged blueline, with deserving rookies unable to get a game. We have a lot of injuries back there. It might be a case of too many bottom-pairing D men, though - but there probably isn't much better available at this point.

Find solace in knowing that there are fans of many teams in the league who look at their defence and see a big question mark.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Y'know, in pondering who we might have that could be moved to get a defenceman in return, it occurs to me that Bournival might be an interesting piece that could be moved for a comparable defenceman - traded to a team like Vancouver that has a crying need for help up front. If we could get back a young guy whose ceiling might run as high as a #4 defender, that might be worth considering, given that we project ultimately to have Galy-Eller-Pleks down the middle. Just a thought.

[Davehab]

Y'know, in pondering who we might have that could be moved to get a defenceman in return, it occurs to me that Bournival might be an interesting piece that could be moved for a comparable defenceman - traded to a team like Vancouver that has a crying need for help up front. If we could get back a young guy whose ceiling might run as high as a #4 defender, that might be worth considering, given that we project ultimately to have Galy-Eller-Pleks down the middle. Just a thought.

I was actually thinking that Bournival would be a decent replacment for Pleks next year. I dont think that getting rid of a much cheaper replacement is good for the future of the club.

I guess the question is do we need an upgrade on D more than we need a reliable 2way center.....i just dont think this is the time for that deal.

and I wouldn't touch Myers with a yard stick right now. I am sick of reclamation projects, lets just develop the obvious talent we already have in the organization.

I think that Markov will be moved before the deadline this year, a team like the Oilers or even Philly could use the leadership on the backend

[Commandant]

To me, I see Beaulieu and Tinordi's performances showing me that they are likely a year (or less) away from filling some of those gaps we have on the blueline. I run with what I have right now as Emelin isn't that far away either.

[Colin]

To me, I see Beaulieu and Tinordi's performances showing me that they are likely a year (or less) away from filling some of those gaps we have on the blueline. I run with what I have right now as Emelin isn't that far away either.

But neither are near Subban's quality, so they aren't going to suddenly step in and be top-3. So even if you have Subban Tinordi and Beaulieu next season as #'s 1, 4, and 5 then where do you fill in the rest? I would pencil Emelin and Gorges in as a #4s as well, and that leaves you with Markov's unfortunately questionable status (will he recapture #2/3 form (and i think he's slowly improving so far this season already)) and a whack-load of #6/7 guys. Are you satisfied with a lineup that consists of 1, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6? It's not bad. But that's saying both Tinordi and Beaulieu improve drastically, and it's saying Markov regains significant form.

Don't get me wrong, we have the (outside) chance of having a brilliant lineup, Subban, Markov settling into his game as a #2, Beaulieu as a 3, Emelin and Tinordi and Gorges as duelling 4's and a ton of solid depth guys. But do you make the decision going forward to build the team towards next season with those hopes?

As GM, what are your goals? Are you a 'this year' guy? Next year? Two years from now? I know what my answer is, but no one knows MB's answer. If it's next year, then I think you're light on the back end. If he's two years from now, then maybe we're more than fine, because I don't think it's unreasonable to think Beaulieu could potentially be a top pairing guy and Tinordi, Emelin, and Gorges as really solid #3/4's.

Personally, I look at the future and I think to myself that, while we have a lot of potential in the system, it's still *down the road* and if I've signed the core of the team which is rounding slowly into form (Price, presumably Subban, Patches, Plexiglass, etc) then I'm looking at two years and I'm thinking that in order to compete at the highest level, I think I'm going to need one more piece of the puzzle.

To get that, I'm not going to sacrifice core unless - big unless - things come together so beautifully that we're looking at Cup runs this or next year. Then I consider moving a Plex (if I think it's my only option) to upgrade my D. Otherwise, I cannot, in good conscience, more Plex this season or next for an Edler-type because that's just not prudent asset management. What I want to do is find a way to spark DD, showcase my significant defensive depth, and package one of those highly rated kids (not Tinordi or Beaulieu, but some of the others who seem to have some very solid potential) to a team that needs to rebuild.

That's option one. (In no case do I move my #1 picks, by the way; we build through the draft.)

Having said all this, I very firmly believe this is considered another transition year by management. What we're looking to see is how well the kids develop at all levels. We're going to get Subban signed. We're going to shed some salary at the end of the year. We're going to watch the cap rise. There will be plenty of open doors in the off-season. But this year, despite everyone groaning and moaning at the patchwork D and quote-unquote three-tier second line system of much smurfiness, I'm going to be as patient as possible and work to make my assets look as good as they can.

I called DD a placeholder for Galchenyuk in another thread. I think this season can be regarded as something similar. The motor is running, we'll give it our best shot, but we're not contenders at all. While no one came out and blatantly said it, there is a 3-5 year plan in place - and this time it's really working well so far.

So while I agree with you that, unless something falls in our lap, we stay the course for this season, I don't agree that the two kids are going to be that highly rated by the end of the year. In fact, I think they're still at least a couple of years from fulfilling promise.

If there's a move to be made, it'll be after Emelin has played more than a handful of games, and it'll be after Markov has been evaluated for close to a half season to see where he is.

My gut tells me no move defensively this season. My heart tells me we need to contact the Feaster's of the league to offer them DD, Pateryn, Thrower and a signed jock for his best defender.

Where's Milbury when you need him?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I know what my answer is, but no one knows MB's answer.

Actually, Bergevin has been pretty open to saying that last season's results were not necessarily proof the team was "complete" and that he's still building the team through the draft. In other words, success is nice but the team isn't in a situation of do or die.

[huzer]

Just seeing D as a significant topic of potential trade proposals, it's crazy to think that as of this moment, only 1 current regular (Gorges) is signed beyond this season. (Tinordi and Beaulieu don't count.)

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Just seeing D as a significant topic of potential trade proposals, it's crazy to think that as of this moment, only 1 current regular (Gorges) is signed beyond this season. (Tinordi and Beaulieu don't count.)

Subban will be signed of course. Drewskie will still be there as the seventh defenceman sitting in the press box.

That leaves potential spots for Beaulieu and Tinordi. That would leave two spots left: one hopefully to Emelin (UFA) and the other to either Markov, Diaz (if he steps it up) or someone who can play the game like Markov plays for us.

I think the Russians return if we want them and they ask a good price.

[hab29RETIRED]

Subban will be signed of course. Drewskie will still be there as the seventh defenceman sitting in the press box.

That leaves potential spots for Beaulieu and Tinordi. That would leave two spots left: one hopefully to Emelin (UFA) and the other to either Markov, Diaz (if he steps it up) or someone who can play the game like Markov plays for us.

I think the Russians return if we want them and they ask a good price.

We've got too many # 6 and #7 Dmen. I'd consider Drewskie and Bouillon #7's on good teams and Murray a #6. At this stage Tinordi is a #5 or #6. We need to fill some holes.

If we are to be a playoff team the following is what i think the makeup our defense needs to be (Emelin fills the #4 role when he is back):

#1 Subban

#2 gap

#3 Markov

#4 gap

#5 Gorges

#6 Tinordi

spares: Murray, Diaz

From our current dmen, Beaulieu is a wildcard who may be able to fall into that #4 role NEXT year.

If you look at our trading chips, the only guy I wouldn't mind moving (despite the leadership he provides) from the core and would have good value is Gorges. I think Gorges a couple of prospects may be enough to get a guy like Myers, who i think needs a change of scenery and as a big man, needs time. In Montreal, he can initially be behind Subban and Markov, so there should be less pressure for him to get his game back. I really think he will end up being a solid #2 or #3 and with his contract, would be a great value if he puts it together.

As hated as White seems to be here, i think he is a guy that would be highly valued by most teams. Gorges, White, Pateryn, Holland for Myers and a 3rd?

At this point, I'd also like to try and waiving DD. Maybe someone will pick him up. If we hold on to him and he keeps sucking, it is going to be harder to expect anyone to have interest in him.

[thehabbit]

why do people think Weber is still on this team?

[hab29RETIRED]

why do people think Weber is still on this team?

sorry, meant the other swiss miss - Diaz.

[JMMR]

Emelin has yet to show his full potential as well.

He actually has some offensive upside and a pretty good shot.

Other than skating I believe he is on par or better than Beaulieau in terms of ability and skill.

[Guest Stogey24]

Emelin has yet to show his full potential as well.

He actually has some offensive upside and a pretty good shot.

Other than skating I believe he is on par or better than Beaulieau in terms of ability nd skill.

Not Even close to each other offensively. Emelin was a late 3rd round pick. He has a career high 26 pts points and that high was in KHL. Beaulieu was our first round pick in 2011. Pretty much strictly for his offensive ability.

[JGC21]

At this stage Tinordi is a #5 or #6. We need to fill some holes.

our current dmen, Beaulieu is a wildcard who may be able to fall into that #4 role NEXT year.

I hate our defense as much as the next guy but I've come to the realization that this year is going to be 'trial by fire' to get some of the kids some playing time. Tinordi and Beaulieu will both be regulars in the lineup by season's end. And with Subban leading the way as the Norris winner, Markov the PP specialist, Gorges being the shot-blocker and Emelin coming back as our bruiser - it is what it is. Are we good enough to make the playoffs, who knows. If Carey Price can have an amazing year then he can cover up a lot of our defense mistakes.

A few bodies come off the books next year that I'm sure MB will be developing a plan by season's end to build for the future.

Core:

Subban

Gorges

Tinordi

Beaulieu

Resigned:

Markov

Emelin

Hamilton:

Drewiske

Pateryn

Gone:

Murray

Diaz

Bouillon

I agree that a trade would be nice to get a #2 but I just don't see that happening. MB will probably do something next summer after he evaluates the kids all year.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Montreal's defence on their game is top in the league. Montreal's defence not on their game is not as bad as the worst in the league but not good enough for where we want to be. On average the defence clearly needs to be better but I have a hard time justifying a trade.

Subban isn't done developing. It's pretty clear. He's getting better every year.

Gorges is decent for what he is. Same goes for Emelin.

Markov, when he has a bad game pulls the blueline down but when he has a good game, shows he can still carry the team on his shoulders. You will not replace that on the free market nor will you replace that via trade. It's about whether you want to find a defenceman with lesser of an upside but shows more consistency or speed.

Tinordi and Beaulieu will develop into permanent NHLers soon enough.

The weakness comes in Diaz, Bouillon and Murray. We need an offensive blueliner better than Diaz (which will likely become Beaulieu) and we need a defensive blueliner better than Bouillon/Murray (which looks to become Tinordi).

I'll be more than fine going to war with Subban/Markov/Emelin/Gorges/Beaulieu/Tinordi in January. Right now we just have to stick it through.

[Seb]

Montreal's defence on their game is top in the league. Montreal's defence not on their game is not as bad as the worst in the league but not good enough for where we want to be. On average the defence clearly needs to be better but I have a hard time justifying a trade.

Subban isn't done developing. It's pretty clear. He's getting better every year.

Gorges is decent for what he is. Same goes for Emelin.

Markov, when he has a bad game pulls the blueline down but when he has a good game, shows he can still carry the team on his shoulders. You will not replace that on the free market nor will you replace that via trade. It's about whether you want to find a defenceman with lesser of an upside but shows more consistency or speed.

Tinordi and Beaulieu will develop into permanent NHLers soon enough.

The weakness comes in Diaz, Bouillon and Murray. We need an offensive blueliner better than Diaz (which will likely become Beaulieu) and we need a defensive blueliner better than Bouillon/Murray (which looks to become Tinordi).

I'll be more than fine going to war with Subban/Markov/Emelin/Gorges/Beaulieu/Tinordi in January. Right now we just have to stick it through.

I agree with this.

[dlbalr]

(Speaking of which, part of me thinks we should try to engineer a trade involving Booth and Desharnais. Vancouver will probably buy out Booth after this season anyway, and it'd be worth seeing if Booth could maybe recover a bit of his game back in the eastern conference. We could use a big winger. The difference in cap hit is only $700 000 and Booth's contract expires after next year. This might be the sort of flyer that's worth taking).

Since there's an interesting proposal here (from the Desharnais goal thread), let's move any discussion about it into here.

For me, I think I'd stay away given Booth's injury history. He's a big injury risk meaning that not only would there be a $750,000 cap hit increase but also another half a million or so for his injury replacement whenever he goes down. There's good logic in looking at taking on a more expensive but shorter-term deal but I'd prefer a bit safer of an acquisition myself.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Since there's an interesting proposal here (from the Desharnais goal thread), let's move any discussion about it into here.

For me, I think I'd stay away given Booth's injury history. He's a big injury risk meaning that not only would there be a $750,000 cap hit increase but also another half a million or so for his injury replacement whenever he goes down. There's good logic in looking at taking on a more expensive but shorter-term deal but I'd prefer a bit safer of an acquisition myself.

Fair enough - but it's these very factors that make Booth at least potentially available. Also, Booth fits a collossal team need, i.e., big winger with some scoring upside. Your point's a good one, though.

[DON]

Fair enough - but it's these very factors that make Booth at least potentially available. Also, Booth fits a collossal team need, i.e., big winger with some scoring upside. Your point's a good one, though.

Interesting option though, he is toast in Vancouver I think.

[Neech]

The term of the Booth deal is key. After next season is when we hope and can reasonably expect to be true contenders, so it'll be the time when we'll need to cast off the dead weight. Of course, it would be nice to get rid of it sooner.

[Guest Stogey24]

Interesting option though, he is toast in Vancouver I think.

He's still not 100% healed.

[DON]

He's still not 100% healed.

and overpaid, but still good sized youngish LWer and if Prust/Pacioretty keep going out injured why not have another of same and hope 2 of 3 are healthy at a time.

[Guest Stogey24]

and overpaid, but still good sized youngish LWer and if Prust/Pacioretty keep going out injured why not have another of same and hope 2 of 3 are healthy at a time.

Prust's shoulder injuries scares me. He's not right.