Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[dlbalr]

7 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

How about this for a trade for PLD if we don't want to wait 2 years 

 

To jets 

Dvorak +Armia +2nd round pick 

 

To habs 

PLD

 

Winnipeg easily says no to that one.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

10 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Winnipeg easily says no to that one.

 

Yup, that Habs would have to do a whole lot better than that to get a deal done. A whole lot better. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

On the Winnipeg forum, they have a whole section devoted to PLD and many trade proposals.  I thought this was  pretty reasonable and is close to what it would take to get it done. My opinion is that a trade won't happen and Mtl will prefer to see how Dach's develops before looking serioulsy at PLD.

 

 

 

Barron (Potential Top 4 RHD prospect that looks ready for some NHL time)
Dvorak (Cap and downgrade centre replacement)
Florida 1st (Late 1st.....That turns into a better player than all the rest in the deal of course )

Is my guess on a return if moved to MTL this offseason.

[GHT120]

33 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

How about this for a trade for PLD if we don't want to wait 2 years 

To jets 

Dvorak +Armia +2nd round pick 

To habs 

PLD

 

 

In this trade market it might well take a 2nd rounder to get a team to take Armia, or be a PACS-ish deal  ... so Dvorak for PLD just doesn't work.

 

10 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

On the Winnipeg forum, they have a whole section devoted to PLD and many trade proposals.  I thought this was  pretty reasonable and is close to what it would take to get it done ...

 

Barron (Potential Top 4 RHD prospect that looks ready for some NHL time)
Dvorak (Cap and downgrade centre replacement)
Florida 1st (Late 1st.....That turns into a better player than all the rest in the deal of course ) ...

 

 

I would do that deal in a split second, without a second thought ... which means it is completely one-sided for the Habs ... a reasonable "hockey trade" usually makes fans from both teams think before agreeing ... there must be a Habs fan posting on that Jets forum ... 

 

[DON]

26 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Yup, that Habs would have to do a whole lot better than that to get a deal done. A whole lot better. 

Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle likely the ask, not chump change,

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It is hard to see an offer that makes sense, UNLESS Winnipeg wants veterans back. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

I would do that deal in a split second, without a second thought ... which means it is completely one-sided for the Habs ... a reasonable "hockey trade" usually makes fans from both teams think before agreeing ... there must be a Habs fan posting on that Jets forum ... 

 

 

It was a Winnipeg fan and I don't think it's completely 1 sided as I consider Barron a very good prospect and an unprotected 1st in the 2023 draft has very good value.  The thing I am not sure of is whether Winnipeg is doing a rebuild now and what they are looking for.  Suzuki and Caulfield aren't going anywhere and I think Montreal wants to see how Dach does before going hard on PLD.  

 

PLD won't be cheap.

[Commandant]

15 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I'm actually torn as to what to think about Dubois.  The strange thing is that I have always had him in my long term arm chair GMing plans, but lately I'm not so sure.  The Habs seem to be cursed with Centers that were picked 3rd overall.  ex:  Chucky, KK, Drouin, and now Dach (still unknown).

 

 

 

That's primarily why I question if he is a good idea.  Imagine the Habs give up players to get him, sign him long term, and he eventually becomes unhappy.  It seems like whenever he doesn't get his way he turns into a huge problem and wants out, like Petry last year.   If you have a star player making big $ with many years on their contract who is playing like crap and is publicly requesting a trade that would be a major nightmare.  

 

Plus, now that the Habs have Dach, if he works out well and they get Dubois it would screw all the C prospects for years.  i.e. Suzuki, Dubois, Dach for 5-10 yrs.  The Habs will lose on the future trades of the C prospects they dont have room for because they will lack NHL experience to know their value.  

 

There are numerous Con arguments against trading for Dubois. 

 

I'd wait until he is a UFA and by then it should be known if Dach will turn out, and if he doesn't then sign Dubois.  

 

Im not worried about future C prospects.  Most Cs can easily play wing.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I really don’t want to give up that Florida first rounder. 
 

Given the improvements to a few teams in the east and the fact that Florida got worse, there is a real possibility of a solid pick. 
 

We don’t need PLD this season 

[Habsfan89]

If the jets think they're getting a 1st plus for PLD they're crazy. Especially from us. Just wait 2 years sign him as a UFA.  In 2 years time we'll have lots of cap space to build around our young core group of players. 

[dlbalr]

15 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

If the jets think they're getting a 1st plus for PLD they're crazy. Especially from us. Just wait 2 years sign him as a UFA.  In 2 years time we'll have lots of cap space to build around our young core group of players. 

 

But what's better for Winnipeg - giving Dubois to Montreal for less than market value, trading him elsewhere (two years of a top-six centre is worth a fair bit, a lot more than your initial offer), or keeping him and trying to win now?  Options 2 and 3 make much more sense for them than selling low to Montreal.

[GHT120]

42 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I... Given the improvements to a few teams in the east and the fact that Florida got worse ...

 

Ideally 22nd in the NHL or worse.

🤞   

[Neech]

If PLD wants to be here so bad, let him come here as a UFA. If we're building a contender we can't afford to give away major assets. 

 

We're on track to be terrible this year, and probably about the same for the year after. PLD signing here in two years would be right around when we're trying to win. Fall 2024 is when we should start to have high expectations again - hopefully our lineup will be sporting a couple stud forwards from the next two drafts, and our young D men will have established themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

[dlbalr]

24 minutes ago, Neech said:

If PLD wants to be here so bad, let him come here as a UFA. If we're building a contender we can't afford to give away major assets.

 

Let me play the other side here.  Is it justifiable for the Canadiens to part with a key asset to get Dubois at a cheaper AAV than it will cost in 2024?  There are two RFA years remaining and the ability to sign an eight-year contract.  In 2024, it's all UFA years that cost more and a seven-year maximum which would still run a year later than signing Dubois now.  The optimal time to give Dubois a contract is this summer when you get a little bit of cap relief relative to open-market value and a better chance at ensuring you're getting him in his peak years.

 

I'm also not sold that the Habs will have a boatload of cap space in 2024.  Yes, Drouin, Dadonov, Allen, Byron, Edmundson, and Hoffman will be up.  But not all of those players are going to replaced by rookies on entry-level deals either.  Caufield's raise will take up the savings from Hoffman and Allen if he gets a deal that's closer to Suzuki's and chances are that a veteran or two are going to be signed to replace some of the outgoing players.  There isn't a big spending spree on the horizon for a couple of years from now and at that point, they might be planning ahead towards replacing Price with a new starter.  There might be room for Dubois at that time depending on the contract demands but if someone like Dvorak or Anderson (if not both - some believe both are in Montreal's current offer with the third element being the holdup) are traded for Dubois now, it's a longer-term salary offset that makes it easier to afford him plus you get him a bit cheaper on the cap.

 

Is it worth parting with some assets to get Dubois the most optimal long-term contract?  There's a case to be made for either side.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

32 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Ideally 22nd in the NHL or worse.

🤞   

I think the possibility exits that they miss the playoffs - wouldn’t that be great 👍 

 

 

40 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

But what's better for Winnipeg - giving Dubois to Montreal for less than market value, trading him elsewhere (two years of a top-six centre is worth a fair bit, a lot more than your initial offer), or keeping him and trying to win now?  Options 2 and 3 make much more sense for them than selling low to Montreal.

Jets should go all in this season. Spend picks and prospects and build the best roster they can and go for it. 
 

They do have some very good players 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

4 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Let me play the other side here.  Is it justifiable for the Canadiens to part with a key asset to get Dubois at a cheaper AAV than it will cost in 2024?  There are two RFA years remaining and the ability to sign an eight-year contract.  In 2024, it's all UFA years that cost more and a seven-year maximum which would still run a year later than signing Dubois now.  The optimal time to give Dubois a contract is this summer when you get a little bit of cap relief relative to open-market value and a better chance at ensuring you're getting him in his peak years.

 

I'm also not sold that the Habs will have a boatload of cap space in 2024.  Yes, Drouin, Dadonov, Allen, Byron, Edmundson, and Hoffman will be up.  But not all of those players are going to replaced by rookies on entry-level deals either.  Caufield's raise will take up the savings from Hoffman and Allen if he gets a deal that's closer to Suzuki's and chances are that a veteran or two are going to be signed to replace some of the outgoing players.  There isn't a big spending spree on the horizon for a couple of years from now and at that point, they might be planning ahead towards replacing Price with a new starter.  There might be room for Dubois at that time depending on the contract demands but if someone like Dvorak or Anderson (if not both - some believe both are in Montreal's current offer with the third element being the holdup) are traded for Dubois now, it's a longer-term salary offset that makes it easier to afford him plus you get him a bit cheaper on the cap.

 

Is it worth parting with some assets to get Dubois the most optimal long-term contract?  There's a case to be made for either side.

This is an angle that I hadn’t considered and there is certainly merit to it. 
 

I would only be in favour of adding Anderson if that third piece was Armia/Gallagher which would create a cap space problem. 
 

I think Anderson on his own is worth a boatload on the open market. Surely a top prospect plus 2023 first, no? 

[GHT120]

13 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

... I think Anderson on his own is worth a boatload on the open market. Surely a top prospect plus 2023 first, no? 

 

In a market where, albeit it taking account of his injuries last season, Pacs is given away for free (even a small bonus - undrafted 6/7/8, RHD Dylan Coghlan - for taking him) I expect Anderson would fetch either one or the other of your suggested returns, maybe with a second lesser piece, at best. 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

But what's better for Winnipeg - giving Dubois to Montreal for less than market value, trading him elsewhere (two years of a top-six centre is worth a fair bit, a lot more than your initial offer), or keeping him and trying to win now?  Options 2 and 3 make much more sense for them than selling low to Montreal.

 

On a two year rental from another team they are getting a first rounder and a lot more.

 

Thats a third option between keeping him and trading to montreal.

[Neech]

7 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Let me play the other side here.  Is it justifiable for the Canadiens to part with a key asset to get Dubois at a cheaper AAV than it will cost in 2024?  There are two RFA years remaining and the ability to sign an eight-year contract.  In 2024, it's all UFA years that cost more and a seven-year maximum which would still run a year later than signing Dubois now.  The optimal time to give Dubois a contract is this summer when you get a little bit of cap relief relative to open-market value and a better chance at ensuring you're getting him in his peak years.

 

I'm also not sold that the Habs will have a boatload of cap space in 2024.  Yes, Drouin, Dadonov, Allen, Byron, Edmundson, and Hoffman will be up.  But not all of those players are going to replaced by rookies on entry-level deals either.  Caufield's raise will take up the savings from Hoffman and Allen if he gets a deal that's closer to Suzuki's and chances are that a veteran or two are going to be signed to replace some of the outgoing players.  There isn't a big spending spree on the horizon for a couple of years from now and at that point, they might be planning ahead towards replacing Price with a new starter.  There might be room for Dubois at that time depending on the contract demands but if someone like Dvorak or Anderson (if not both - some believe both are in Montreal's current offer with the third element being the holdup) are traded for Dubois now, it's a longer-term salary offset that makes it easier to afford him plus you get him a bit cheaper on the cap.

 

Is it worth parting with some assets to get Dubois the most optimal long-term contract?  There's a case to be made for either side.

 

Is saving one or two mil on the AAV worth giving up serious assets during a period where we won't be close to competing? I'd be making this sort of calculus when we're not at rock bottom. To get to contention we have to either draft immaculately, make signings for free or win a bunch of trades. If PLD actually wants to be here that bad (which I'm skeptical of, more likely it's his agent drumming up interest), let him put his money where his mouth is and get to free agency. 

 

Dvorak and Anderson for PLD is good for us on paper though I doubt the Jets would be thrilled with that return. At this point in the rebuild, however, I'd rather unload Dvorak and Anderson for top picks or prospects and hope for PLD or someone else in free agency. 

[TurdBurglar]

46 minutes ago, Neech said:

If PLD actually wants to be here that bad (which I'm skeptical of, more likely it's his agent drumming up interest), let him put his money where his mouth is and get to free agency. 

This.  If he wants to be in Montreal he will sign in free agency and take a possible discount to make sure it works.  It will also be in 2 years so by then we should have a good idea of who Dach is and if PLD is actually needed. 

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

On a two year rental from another team they are getting a first rounder and a lot more.

 

Thats a third option between keeping him and trading to montreal.

 

Yep.  That's why it was option #2 on my shortlist - there will be teams interested although less now than there would have been a week ago (the Rangers, for example, are probably out on him now).

 

1 hour ago, Neech said:

Dvorak and Anderson for PLD is good for us on paper though I doubt the Jets would be thrilled with that return. At this point in the rebuild, however, I'd rather unload Dvorak and Anderson for top picks or prospects and hope for PLD or someone else in free agency. 

 

In this current trade market, can those players yield top picks or prospects?  Maybe during the season the market improves but right now, player/player trades where you can come close to matching money seems to be the preference for some teams who want to make moves but don't have the money to add pieces outright.

[Meller93]

With Nils Lunqvist asking for a trade, we should target him. Young right handed D man with a focus on offence is exactly what we need.

 

what we’d have to give up I’m unsure 

[DON]

2018 1st pick not panning out or no room for him?

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=210202

 

 

Seems 'should' be RH d-men available , one way or other before season starts

https://theathletic.com/3558218/2022/09/01/canadiens-defenceman-barrie-stralman-price/

 

"Waivers

The preseason waiver wire is a good place for the Canadiens to find potential solutions.

In San Jose, if Ryan Merkley makes the team, veteran Markus Nutivaara might find himself on waivers.

Nicolas Meloche, who played 50 games with San Jose last season, might also fall victim to a numbers game in Calgary.

The Pittsburgh Penguins have a ton of options on the right side. If Chad Ruhwedel were to find himself on waivers at the end of training camp..."

[Meller93]

5 hours ago, DON said:

2018 1st pick not panning out or no room for him?

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=210202

 

 

Seems 'should' be RH d-men available , one way or other before season starts

https://theathletic.com/3558218/2022/09/01/canadiens-defenceman-barrie-stralman-price/

 

"Waivers

The preseason waiver wire is a good place for the Canadiens to find potential solutions.

In San Jose, if Ryan Merkley makes the team, veteran Markus Nutivaara might find himself on waivers.

Nicolas Meloche, who played 50 games with San Jose last season, might also fall victim to a numbers game in Calgary.

The Pittsburgh Penguins have a ton of options on the right side. If Chad Ruhwedel were to find himself on waivers at the end of training camp..."

I think lunqvist is a case of lack of room and also adjusting to the NA game, not failing as a prospect entirely. Let’s not forget he turned 22 just a few days ago, so at 21, he was approaching .5 ppg in his rookie AHL season. 
 

I think he has the potential to be a 40 point puck mover in a couple years 

[GHT120]

5 hours ago, DON said:

2018 1st pick not panning out or no room for him?

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=210202

 

 

Seems 'should' be RH d-men available , one way or other before season starts

https://theathletic.com/3558218/2022/09/01/canadiens-defenceman-barrie-stralman-price/

 

"Waivers

The preseason waiver wire is a good place for the Canadiens to find potential solutions.

In San Jose, if Ryan Merkley makes the team, veteran Markus Nutivaara might find himself on waivers.

Nicolas Meloche, who played 50 games with San Jose last season, might also fall victim to a numbers game in Calgary.

The Pittsburgh Penguins have a ton of options on the right side. If Chad Ruhwedel were to find himself on waivers at the end of training camp..."

 

 

Depends what HuGo are looking for ... the waiver wire guys are likely "bodies" for this season and maybe 6/7 Ds on very reasonable contracts going forward ... Lunqvist would be an investment in the rebuild.