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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Anderson maybe more likely in off-season deal?

And might be smarter to simply keep Edmundson/Hoffman/Monahan (if stay for cheap), hope they all stay healthy, play well and trade them next year?

But at least Edmundson is on upcoming road trip and maybe still be worth a 2nd round pick, unless injury worries really driven his value down?

Edmundson worries me ... not only does his health seem unpredictable but with Matheson onboard Joel clogs up the left-side on defence ... if they receive a decent offer, I would take it at the deadline ... he seems at least, it not more, likely to end up on LTIR and tank his post-season trade value over the rest of the season as to play well and increase it.

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1 minute ago, DON said:

How about Dadanov for Gurianov?:D

I like it ... ED was gone next season ... Habs really didn't need a 2027 6th rounder (mild sarcasm) ... ***IF*** his career can be resuscitated, Gurianov can contribute to the rebuild.

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On 2/24/2023 at 7:56 PM, dlbalr said:

 

You're not offering anything of value with the other pieces though.  Wideman has zero value to Winnipeg, he'd be 10th or lower on their depth chart not to mention the fact that he's out for several weeks at least.  Norlinder's value is at an all-time low with the year he's having and he'd be lower than Wideman on their depth chart.  Adding these pieces doesn't add value for them.  Lundmark's not that valuable of a prospect (he's okay but nothing special) so simplify things.  Dadonov could fit in Winnipeg if they strike out on everything else.  If that happens, it'll be a simple deal, not one that involves four players and two draft picks. 


seems like WPG was a potential landing spot for Dadonov 

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On 2/24/2023 at 9:44 PM, dlbalr said:

 

You're not doing a Dadonov trade to move the needle.  You're doing a Dadonov trade to try to salvage something of value.  Most deadline deals are player for pick or prospect for prospect, not the type of framework you're suggesting.  The offseason is when the more complicated deals like that happen.

 

Also, how exactly is Wideman a PP specialist this season?  He has two assists in 50:51 of ice time.  Last year was last year when he was at least competent with the man advantage and again, he's out for a while.  How does an injured defenceman help them right now?  When healthy, he's borderline unplayable and really shouldn't be in the NHL.  Winnipeg has Morrissey and Pionk that can put up points, Schmidt has a few power play goals, and Heinola, who's a pretty good offensive defence prospect, is in the minors.  They're fine for that element.


In the pre-season and begining of the season, Wideman was still seen as a key part of the Habs. The contract extension (which I thought was too long) and the extra playing time showed MSL saw something in Wideman 

 

Yes, this season most veterans have sucked. Wideman is one of them; but like I have said a few times, I think it is in part due to coaching. A change of scenery would help most of the Habs underperforming veterans 

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11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

seems like WPG was a potential landing spot for Dadonov 

 

But likely not for anything of value ... IMO he was a "if that's all that is available" option at 2:55 pm Friday for Winnipeg.

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28 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

seems like WPG was a potential landing spot for Dadonov

 

I didn't say he wasn't.  In fact, in the exact post you quoted, I said "Dadonov could fit in Winnipeg if they strike out on everything else." 

 

It's Wideman that I said doesn't fit in Winnipeg.  There are eight defencemen on their NHL team that would be ahead of him.  They then have Ville Heinola who is one of their better prospects.  Why do they need another depth d-man, especially one that's injured for a while?  Plain and simple, they don't.

 

23 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

In the pre-season and begining of the season, Wideman was still seen as a key part of the Habs. The contract extension (which I thought was too long) and the extra playing time showed MSL saw something in Wideman 

 

Yes, this season most veterans have sucked. Wideman is one of them; but like I have said a few times, I think it is in part due to coaching. A change of scenery would help most of the Habs underperforming veterans 

 

Who in their right mind thought Wideman was a key part of the Habs?  He signed a two-year deal for the league minimum, key parts don't sign for that.  Fringe guys get that.  In signing him, they inked a guy who was content on being a seventh defender that they like in the dressing room.  Nothing more than that, certainly not a sign that they saw something in a 33-year-old journeyman.

 

Chris Wideman isn't struggling because of coaching.  He's struggling because he's not an NHL-calibre player.  The fact he took a deal for the minimum from Montreal over testing free agency showed that even he knows his value around the league is non-existent.  He's an undersized player that has no clue about defensive concepts.  This is not the type of player that contending teams will want at the deadline.  This is not the type of player that any team will want at the deadline.

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I am not saying that Wideman is an important cog on any NHL team, even the Habs. But obviously, as far too often, I am not explaining myself clearly.

 

I think that the emphasis this year from a coaching perspective was more on playing the rookies than building value for the expiring contracts and fringe NHLers like Wideman. That is fine, but now that the trade deadline is coming up we have the Hoffman, Dvorak, (Dadonov), Armia, Drouin, Evans, Pezzetta, Pitlick, Edmundson, Wideman having their worst point production in their careers and with a lower trade value than they could have.

I believe that how they were used is a factor that has to be considered; this is exacerbated by  the failure to manage conditioning, injuries and re-insertion into the line up after injury.

 

Yes, a simple one for one trade like with Dallas, is a much better trade than the complex one I thought of.

 

but, if you go back to the pre-season Habs media interviews, comments from the coach, line ups and playtime, there was a lot of Wideman in the koolaid at the time.

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:


In the pre-season and begining of the season, Wideman was still seen as a key part of the Habs. The contract extension (which I thought was too long) and the extra playing time showed MSL saw something in Wideman 

 

Yes, this season most veterans have sucked. Wideman is one of them; but like I have said a few times, I think it is in part due to coaching. A change of scenery would help most of the Habs underperforming veterans 

Wideman was, is, and always will be useless. He played ok last year, but it was on the worst team in the league. We resigned him becuase we didn’t have an experienced NHL Dman. The problem with the signing was that he really isn’t anything more than a 7th/8th NHL dman. 
 

he has zero value.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

but, if you go back to the pre-season Habs media interviews, comments from the coach, line ups and playtime, there was a lot of Wideman in the koolaid at the time.

 

Well, coaches aren't coming out in training camp and being critical of players so I wouldn't read anything into that.  He was playing early on because Edmundson wasn't and they weren't carrying extra d-men so they didn't have much of a choice.

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5 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Well, coaches aren't coming out in training camp and being critical of players so I wouldn't read anything into that.  He was playing early on because Edmundson wasn't and they weren't carrying extra d-men so they didn't have much of a choice.

 

you are right about that

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Not really suitable for any thread, but I’m currently in Boston, sitting in a bar and just asked the bartender about which franchise is the most popular in beantown.

 

His personal preference is the Celtics, but all of them are quite frankly respectable.

 

However, this lead me to “google” the Bruins.

 

”Only” six Stanley Cups.

 

It feels like they’ve been a powerhouse for decades and years. Nice to be reminded that they’ve not. But also questionable how Bourque ended up being a Bruin…

 

I was also reminded that the rivalry has faded on a personal level. My disliking for the Leafs have surpassed the Bruins in recent years. I would even go as far and admit that they deserve the cup…

 

//

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2 hours ago, ch_nl said:

Not really suitable for any thread, but I’m currently in Boston, sitting in a bar and just asked the bartender about which franchise is the most popular in beantown.

 

His personal preference is the Celtics, but all of them are quite frankly respectable.

 

However, this lead me to “google” the Bruins.

 

”Only” six Stanley Cups.

 

It feels like they’ve been a powerhouse for decades and years. Nice to be reminded that they’ve not. But also questionable how Bourque ended up being a Bruin…

 

I was also reminded that the rivalry has faded on a personal level. My disliking for the Leafs have surpassed the Bruins in recent years. I would even go as far and admit that they deserve the cup…

 

//

 

Well, the truth is, the Habs have not been up to snuff. Think back to the Patches/Subban days (2012-2015), the rivalry was pretty intense. It was also super intense during the Gainey rebuild, tipping decisively in Boston's favour when Lucic smashed Komisarek's face. Any time Montreal and Boston are anywhere near competitive with each other, the greatest rivalry in the game renews itself. 

 

Montreal-Toronto has been an artificial rivalry for decades now, mostly fueled by media bullcrap and our universal and entirely justified loathing of the Toronto hype machine. In 2021 we did catch a glimpse of the real thing - the playoff round - but because the core players from that run all went away the following year, there was no chance for a bona-fide rivalry to take seed and grow from there.  

 

I have major respect for Boston as a great, historic opponent over the years. Don't get me wrong, being beaten by them makes me want to puke, but I respect them.

 

Toronto, I have no respect for whatsoever. I mean, I respect the formidable talent on that squad - but I have no respect at all for the organization or the media and fan ecosystem around it. No amount of suffering and humiliation is too good for them. I just wish we were in a position to mete it out. But as long as it's meted out - year after year, for all eternity - then I'm happy.

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18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, the truth is, the Habs have not been up to snuff. Think back to the Patches/Subban days (2012-2015), the rivalry was pretty intense. It was also super intense during the Gainey rebuild, tipping decisively in Boston's favour when Lucic smashed Komisarek's face. Any time Montreal and Boston are anywhere near competitive with each other, the greatest rivalry in the game renews itself. 

 

Montreal-Toronto has been an artificial rivalry for decades now, mostly fueled by media bullcrap and our universal and entirely justified loathing of the Toronto hype machine. In 2021 we did catch a glimpse of the real thing - the playoff round - but because the core players from that run all went away the following year, there was no chance for a bona-fide rivalry to take seed and grow from there.  

 

I have major respect for Boston as a great, historic opponent over the years. Don't get me wrong, being beaten by them makes me want to puke, but I respect them.

 

Toronto, I have no respect for whatsoever. I mean, I respect the formidable talent on that squad - but I have no respect at all for the organization or the media and fan ecosystem around it. No amount of suffering and humiliation is too good for them. I just wish we were in a position to mete it out. But as long as it's meted out - year after year, for all eternity - then I'm happy.

 

 

i-completely-agree-i-agree.gif

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, the truth is, the Habs have not been up to snuff. Think back to the Patches/Subban days (2012-2015), the rivalry was pretty intense. It was also super intense during the Gainey rebuild, tipping decisively in Boston's favour when Lucic smashed Komisarek's face. Any time Montreal and Boston are anywhere near competitive with each other, the greatest rivalry in the game renews itself. 

 

Montreal-Toronto has been an artificial rivalry for decades now, mostly fueled by media bullcrap and our universal and entirely justified loathing of the Toronto hype machine. In 2021 we did catch a glimpse of the real thing - the playoff round - but because the core players from that run all went away the following year, there was no chance for a bona-fide rivalry to take seed and grow from there.  

 

I have major respect for Boston as a great, historic opponent over the years. Don't get me wrong, being beaten by them makes me want to puke, but I respect them.

 

Toronto, I have no respect for whatsoever. I mean, I respect the formidable talent on that squad - but I have no respect at all for the organization or the media and fan ecosystem around it. No amount of suffering and humiliation is too good for them. I just wish we were in a position to mete it out. But as long as it's meted out - year after year, for all eternity - then I'm happy.


As someone who now lives in Connecticut i couldn’t agree any more. 
 

 

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I know this is unlikely to happen, but in a swap of expiring contracts:

To MIN: Drouin($5.5M/UFA'23), Edmundson($3.56M/UFA'24) and Norlinder(LD)

To MTL: Dumba(RD$6.0M/UFA'23), Goligoski(LD$2.0M/UFA'24), Spacek(RD)

 

MIN gets a cheaper experienced D with a similar term than Goligoski but less expensive than Dumba. Drouin may find a role there or walk. They also get a long shot LD that may provide some offensive production from the back if he develops

 

MON gets a chance to sign Dumba who is a RD and would fit well with the Habs during the rebuild, although he may be too expensive for the Habs. They also get a prospect RD that is more two-way or defensive but that may complement well the LD prospects they have. Goligoski is the price to pay to get the trade done and may be used sparingly like Wideman with both players becoming UFAs in 2024.

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16 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I know this is unlikely to happen, but in a swap of expiring contracts:

To MIN: Drouin($5.5M/UFA'23), Edmundson($3.56M/UFA'24) and Norlinder(LD)

To MTL: Dumba(RD$6.0M/UFA'23), Goligoski(LD$2.0M/UFA'24), Spacek(RD)

 

MIN gets a cheaper experienced D with a similar term than Goligoski but less expensive than Dumba. Drouin may find a role there or walk. They also get a long shot LD that may provide some offensive production from the back if he develops

 

MON gets a chance to sign Dumba who is a RD and would fit well with the Habs during the rebuild, although he may be too expensive for the Habs. They also get a prospect RD that is more two-way or defensive but that may complement well the LD prospects they have. Goligoski is the price to pay to get the trade done and may be used sparingly like Wideman with both players becoming UFAs in 2024.

 

Don't like this trade from either team's perspective. If Minny's dumping Dumba they can find a better return, and if we're dumping Eddy we can also look for something more useful longterm. 

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Just now, Neech said:

 

Don't like this trade from either team's perspective. If Minny's dumping Dumba they can find a better return, and if we're dumping Eddy we can also look for something more useful longterm. 

I look at it as Edmundson for Dumba if both teams can make the contracts fit. Matheson-Dumba, Guhle-Savard would be good for the Habs

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2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I look at it as Edmundson for Dumba if both teams can make the contracts fit. Matheson-Dumba, Guhle-Savard would be good for the Habs

 

We're acquiring a UFA. It's likely he would go to the open market and leave. That's why we're looking for future assets like picks and prospects for vets and expiring contracts.

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14 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

We're acquiring a UFA. It's likely he would go to the open market and leave. That's why we're looking for future assets like picks and prospects for vets and expiring contracts.

Shedding Edmundson’s salary for one season and freeing up the left D for the young Ds is good. 
If Dumba signs, it would stabilize the top-4 at an incremental cost of 3 to 4 mil. Which is not crazy with Monahan, Dadonov and Drouin coming off the books

if Dba doesn’t sign, that is $6M of cap space 

 

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I know this is unlikely to happen, but in a swap of expiring contracts:

To MIN: Drouin($5.5M/UFA'23), Edmundson($3.56M/UFA'24) and Norlinder(LD)

To MTL: Dumba(RD$6.0M/UFA'23), Goligoski(LD$2.0M/UFA'24), Spacek(RD)

 

MIN gets a cheaper experienced D with a similar term than Goligoski but less expensive than Dumba. Drouin may find a role there or walk. They also get a long shot LD that may provide some offensive production from the back if he develops

 

MON gets a chance to sign Dumba who is a RD and would fit well with the Habs during the rebuild, although he may be too expensive for the Habs. They also get a prospect RD that is more two-way or defensive but that may complement well the LD prospects they have. Goligoski is the price to pay to get the trade done and may be used sparingly like Wideman with both players becoming UFAs in 2024.

Why would a playoff team downgrade that much???

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54 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Why would a playoff team downgrade that much???

the article mentions this too, saying that it seem odd but that the rumours are there that MIN may trade Dumba. Edmundsn is 29 and Dumba is 28. Edmudson has another year under the current contract at a lower cap hit. It frees cap space for MIN. Comparing side by side, if we take off the two last injury plagued seasons from Edmundson:

image.png

 

Edmundson is still the lesser player, but as a 4th or 5th for MIN it may be fine. Also, the article mentions mIN has good D prospects in the system

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22 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I know this is unlikely to happen, but in a swap of expiring contracts:

To MIN: Drouin($5.5M/UFA'23), Edmundson($3.56M/UFA'24) and Norlinder(LD)

To MTL: Dumba(RD$6.0M/UFA'23), Goligoski(LD$2.0M/UFA'24), Spacek(RD)

 

Minnesota can't afford to add to their cap beyond this season, their dead cap charge goes up from the Suter/Parise buyouts and Boldy's second contract is a big one as well.  That's why they're not re-signing Dumba, they can't afford to.  Any offer that sees them adding money is one they can't afford to make.

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55 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Minnesota can't afford to add to their cap beyond this season, their dead cap charge goes up from the Suter/Parise buyouts and Boldy's second contract is a big one as well.  That's why they're not re-signing Dumba, they can't afford to.  Any offer that sees them adding money is one they can't afford to make.

then my proposal makes sense:

Drouin as a rental for their 3rd-line and PP. Edmundson for the second pair and lower cap than Dumba and Norlinder as a prospect with higher ceiling than Spacek.

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