Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[dlbalr]

He only just turned 21 and has already played in the NHL. Should we be so quick to dismiss the possibility of offensive improvement. He was and early 2nd rounder.

We can't certainly dismiss it outright but at the same time, I think we can't be as optimistic about the possibility of him improving there as we were this time a year ago. My comments about de la Rose aren't just related to his time with the Habs either, he more or less was stagnant with the IceCaps as well (which actually is more disappointing to me than his play in Montreal).

[kaos]

Most players tend to go threw a sophomore slump. No reason he can't come back and be an effective bottom 6 forward.

[dlbalr]

Most players tend to go threw a sophomore slump. No reason he can't come back and be an effective bottom 6 forward.

Believe me, I'm well aware prospects go through slumps, I write about it all the time. Yes, he can still be an effective bottom six forward. However, my original point was that I think his trade value has dropped based on last year. What type of value does a player have who now has one year left on his ELC that struggled last season and has the ceiling of an effective bottom six forward? Every team has those guys so the answer is not very high.

I still think de la Rose has a future on this team, probably as the fourth line centre in the next couple of years as the likes of Flynn and Mitchell leave when their contracts are up. He's not a core piece though and certainly isn't going to fetch much in a trade right now based on the season he just had.

[Guest Stogey24]

Early second round pick on a 4th liner. That's a bust.

[kaos]

Early second round pick on a 4th liner. That's a bust.

I guess the league is full of 1st and 2nd round busts.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I guess the league is full of 1st and 2nd round busts.

That's the problem with the bust label.

I wouldn't consider Kyle Chipchura a bust. Did he bust for Montreal? Sure. Did he bust in the NHL? No, because he ended up playing close to 500 games in his NHL career. He ended up a competent fourth line forward. Maybe you expect more out of your first round picks, but I can't call a guy a bust if he still had an NHL career.

Then you got pretty much the majority of players drafted after the second round who don't make the NHL. Is any player who plays in the NHL from third round and up not a bust because they played?

The same problem happens even in the first round. If you're taken in the Top 10, you're a bust if you don't become a first line superstar. What if the draft sucked? What if in another year, the 8th overall pick would have been a 38th overall pick? Why is that your fault? Look at the 1996 NHL Entry Draft. Chris Phillips went first overall. One year later Paul Mara went eighth overall and nearly matched Phillips in career points with 400+ less games. Would Phillips still be a Top 10 pick in 97? Nope. But that's not his fault. It was a weak draft. We also put the same pressure on guys drafted between 25th-30th that we do on guys drafted 10th-15th when we should be treating them like the guys picked 31st-35th. But we don't. Need evidence? Commandant with Mike McCarron.

Heck, even take Alex Daigle. Was he a bust based on expectations? 100%. Was he a bust based on his actual NHL ability? Nope. Daigle was an excellent player. He walked onto the Minnesota Wild in 03-04 and led the team in scoring. When he wanted to play he was a top six forward. When he didn't want to play, he was invisible. Doesn't change the fact the skill was there. He only failed because he didn't care, not because he was didn't have the talent.

Basically, the bust label is more a way for fans to complain about their hopes not being met and not some quantifiable statistic point.

[Guest Stogey24]

I don't see your point at all?

[dlbalr]

I don't see your point at all?

I think his point is it's not fair to really label players as busts simply relative to their draft position. There's more to it than that.

[Guest Stogey24]

I think his point is it's not fair to really label players as busts simply relative to their draft position. There's more to it than that.

Ok, living up to expectations I guess is a better choice of words.

[habs rule]

That's the problem with the bust label.

I wouldn't consider Kyle Chipchura a bust. Did he bust for Montreal? Sure. Did he bust in the NHL? No, because he ended up playing close to 500 games in his NHL career. He ended up a competent fourth line forward. Maybe you expect more out of your first round picks, but I can't call a guy a bust if he still had an NHL career.

Then you got pretty much the majority of players drafted after the second round who don't make the NHL. Is any player who plays in the NHL from third round and up not a bust because they played?

The same problem happens even in the first round. If you're taken in the Top 10, you're a bust if you don't become a first line superstar. What if the draft sucked? What if in another year, the 8th overall pick would have been a 38th overall pick? Why is that your fault? Look at the 1996 NHL Entry Draft. Chris Phillips went first overall. One year later Paul Mara went eighth overall and nearly matched Phillips in career points with 400+ less games. Would Phillips still be a Top 10 pick in 97? Nope. But that's not his fault. It was a weak draft. We also put the same pressure on guys drafted between 25th-30th that we do on guys drafted 10th-15th when we should be treating them like the guys picked 31st-35th. But we don't. Need evidence? Commandant with Mike McCarron.

Heck, even take Alex Daigle. Was he a bust based on expectations? 100%. Was he a bust based on his actual NHL ability? Nope. Daigle was an excellent player. He walked onto the Minnesota Wild in 03-04 and led the team in scoring. When he wanted to play he was a top six forward. When he didn't want to play, he was invisible. Doesn't change the fact the skill was there. He only failed because he didn't care, not because he was didn't have the talent.

Basically, the bust label is more a way for fans to complain about their hopes not being met and not some quantifiable statistic point.

Very good points.

[JGC21]

So do we think MB is done or is he looking to add another piece before training camps starts? Even though I like Weber I agree with those who say he needs a mobile d-partner to play with. That could be Beaulieu or perhaps Cam Fowler:

To MTL

- Cam Fowler, D

To ANA

- Charles Hudon, LW

- Sven Andrighetto, RW

- 2017 2nd round pick

Then perhaps MB could unload Emelin for a 2nd round pick from another team, to get it back.

[dlbalr]

The asking price for Fowler back at the draft was apparently the 8th pick (from Buffalo) or the 9th pick (from Montreal). That package isn't close to being worth a top-10 pick. If the Habs want him, they'll need to move a top youngster that's of high value, not a couple of wildcards in Hudon/Andrighetto.

[JGC21]

The asking price for Fowler back at the draft was apparently the 8th pick (from Buffalo) or the 9th pick (from Montreal). That package isn't close to being worth a top-10 pick. If the Habs want him, they'll need to move a top youngster that's of high value, not a couple of wildcards in Hudon/Andrighetto.

I also heard that TOR is offering Van Reimsdyk for him. I think ANA is looking for secondary scoring so perhaps Scherbak and Hudon would entice them? I can't see MB trading any top 6 forward off the current roster, but he's surprised us before

[dlbalr]

I also heard that TOR is offering Van Reimsdyk for him. I think ANA is looking for secondary scoring so perhaps Scherbak and Hudon would entice them? I can't see MB trading any top 6 forward off the current roster, but he's surprised us before

There's a big difference between van Riemsdyk and Scherbak/Hudon. One is a proven scorer, while Montreal's two aren't. Scherbak is not remotely close to being NHL ready while Hudon may be close to ready but isn't ready to be a top six guy in a secondary scoring role. If the Ducks want secondary scoring help for Fowler, Montreal's not a good fit trade-wise.

[JGC21]

There's a big difference between van Riemsdyk and Scherbak/Hudon. One is a proven scorer, while Montreal's two aren't. Scherbak is not remotely close to being NHL ready while Hudon may be close to ready but isn't ready to be a top six guy in a secondary scoring role. If the Ducks want secondary scoring help for Fowler, Montreal's not a good fit trade-wise.

You may be right but ANA are looking to shed some salary to make room for raises for other players that have developed into regulars, I think that's why they have Fowler on the trade block: he's replaceable and makes $4M. Its no secret they need secondary scoring but Van Reimsdyk costs upward of $4M so my hunch is they're looking for cheaper, complimentary scorers. There may not be a fit with MTL but the fact that they entertained trading Fowler for a first round pick at least proves that they may be willing to trade for prospects; those that can play in the top 9 might be of value to them.

[dlbalr]

You may be right but ANA are looking to shed some salary to make room for raises for other players that have developed into regulars, I think that's why they have Fowler on the trade block: he's replaceable and makes $4M. Its no secret they need secondary scoring but Van Reimsdyk costs upward of $4M so my hunch is they're looking for cheaper, complimentary scorers. There may not be a fit with MTL but the fact that they entertained trading Fowler for a first round pick at least proves that they may be willing to trade for prospects; those that can play in the top 9 might be of value to them.

The thought is Anaheim wants to save a bit of money in order to get Lindholm signed to something bigger than a bridge deal. (They should have thought of that before extending Bieksa and giving Stoner way too much money.)

The problem with most of Montreal's prospects is that there's little evidence to suggest they can play in the top-9 right now. Hudon could but there are red flags with his health dating back to junior (and why did he only get 3 games with Montreal last year? That will surely come up.). McCarron could but he's more of a fourth liner at the moment. Scherbak could down the road but he's two years away at least. Andrighetto could but he could also be on waivers if he has a bad training camp (and his trade value is quite low). Lehkonen/Reway could but neither have played pro hockey in North America yet so it's hard to say definitively that they're ready. About the only forward prospect I could see Anaheim having a bit of interest in terms of potential top-9 readiness is Carr and there's no way he's the centrepiece for a 24 year old top-4 defenceman with two years left on his deal.

If they do wind up dealing Fowler for prospects, I suspect it may be for the junior-aged ones more than the 21/22 year olds. That way, some of Fowler's money goes to Lindholm while the rest goes towards adding someone like Hudler/Vrbata whose asking prices are likely dropping quickly.

[Guest Stogey24]

In other words our prospect pool is shit.

[dlbalr]

In other words our prospect pool is shit.

That's what happens when you usually draft towards the back each year and trade 2nd rounders away regularly. Relative to where they've picked, it's not a bad group but I'd say it's in the bottom half of the league overall. 2016-17 is a big year for the group as we'll have a much better idea about the NHL futures for a lot of the players I rambled off earlier.

[Guest Stogey24]

That's what happens when you usually draft towards the back each year and trade 2nd rounders away regularly. Relative to where they've picked, it's not a bad group but I'd say it's in the bottom half of the league overall. 2016-17 is a big year for the group as we'll have a much better idea about the NHL futures for a lot of the players I rambled off earlier.

Ya, that's true for sure

[DON]

Too bad seem to of also guessed wrong with 4 2nd picks, Collberg/Rose/Fucale/Thrower add in Kristo dosent help and trading 2nd picks for Sopel-Mara's of the league.

[nihilz]

Edler Dorsett

DD Emelin Andrighetto

[dlbalr]

Edler Dorsett

DD Emelin Andrighetto

What's in it for Vancouver? They add salary and lose the best player in the deal. Andrighetto can't be a key cog in any deal of significance, his trade value is quite low.

[TheDriveFor25]

Out of all the young guys - DLR, Carr, Ghetto, Flynn, Danault, Matteau, etc.. I really hope they hold on to DLR.

His two-way game is more complete than anybody. He's the perfect third liner - shut down other lines and chip in occasionally. Out of the six, I believe teams would covet him the most in any deal.

[nihilz]

What's in it for Vancouver? They add salary and lose the best player in the deal. Andrighetto can't be a key cog in any deal of significance, his trade value is quite low.

Well. Van is desperate for top 6 options. DD could be that. Seems like Edler could use a change of scenery as well. Van clears space sooner.

What other young forward would make that both possible and smart for the Habs? Hudon Reway Lehkonen Andrighetto.

Dorsett would be a nice 4th line option as well. Would make the Habs tough as nails to play against.

I swear 3 offseasons in a row im dying to see a more versatile player at $3.5. Imagine E.Staal on this roster in DD's stead. I'd be stoked right now. That's how deficient DD is in my eyes. This roster is at a disadvantage, imo. I'd much rather still have Eller around than DD as well. Weise & DSP, too.

Hey Brian. What about Skinner? I think he'd be an ideal 2nd line LW on this roster. Their goaltending is barren. Perhaps Fucale with Emelin and one of the aforementioned forwards & 1st 2017. Something in that vicinity? That Carolina system needs an injection.

[dlbalr]

Well. Van is desperate for top 6 options. DD could be that. Seems like Edler could use a change of scenery as well. Van clears space sooner.

What other young forward would make that both possible and smart for the Habs? Hudon Reway Lehkonen Andrighetto.

Dorsett would be a nice 4th line option as well. Would make the Habs tough as nails to play against.

I swear 3 offseasons in a row im dying to see a more versatile player at $3.5. Imagine E.Staal on this roster in DD's stead. I'd be stoked right now. That's how deficient DD is in my eyes. This roster is at a disadvantage, imo. I'd much rather still have Eller around than DD as well. Weise & DSP, too.

Hey Brian. What about Skinner? I think he'd be an ideal 2nd line LW on this roster. Their goaltending is barren. Perhaps Fucale with Emelin and one of the aforementioned forwards & 1st 2017. Something in that vicinity? That Carolina system needs an injection.

The Habs are in dire need of top six help and don't think Desharnais is a solution so why would Vancouver? Desharnais would also be behind Sedin, Sutter, and Horvat at centre so they really don't have a spot for him.

I would say none of those forwards would entice Vancouver. All of those guys are worth a 2nd round pick or worse on their own. The young player is the best asset in this trade. Should the Canucks deal a quality core d-man for a package where the best asset is equivalent to a second round pick or less? It doesn't make much sense, even if they get out of the completely beyond awful Dorsett contract in the process. A prospect that would make more sense for them is one of the first round prospects. Anything less and they have no reason to consider a deal like this.

The other day I did some digging into similar contracts to Desharnais', to look for a potential swap of underperforming contracts, or even someone with a lower cap hit but a higher salary on a backloaded deal. The idea was to come up with a few trade proposals on here since I spend more time critiquing than I do coming up with my own. You'll note I never made such a post as the list was pretty much empty.

If you want to move Desharnais to Vancouver, the only possible fit I see is Burrows, potentially with Vancouver retaining a bit of the $1M difference in salary (both are UFA's next summer). I don't expect that to be popular at all but that's more the type of deal I could see Desharnais moving in. Not in something where they get a core player coming back.

Carolina has a comparable prospect to Fucale in Alex Nedeljkovic so I'm not sure they'd think too highly of him. The foundation in that deal makes more sense though, a first round pick, a cap dump, and another decent prospect is a decent starting point for something with Skinner I'd think. (I say this knowing Skinner's contract isn't that good and his risky concussion history. He's someone I think you could potentially get for a bit below perceived value because of those factors if they were motivated to move him. Are they really motivated to deal him though? I don't know.)