Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[hab29RETIRED]

45 minutes ago, DON said:

So you only want bold but Cucumber approved deals...got it.  

No I think you don't.  A deal should be made to fill a need.  We had a #1 dman and replaced him with another.

 

arguably, MB made that and the Shaw trade for character and leadership.  Yet the failure for this year was attributed by the guy trading for and bringing in Weber, Shaw, Ott, King and Benn as the team being fragile.  So if he brough in so much friggin  leaderhip in his "bold" trade and other moves, why was this team so fragile?

 

the deal did not fill any holes - but created one - a mobile puck moving dman AND made us older.

 

i would say Nashville made a bold move trading away their captain and longest tenured player, but MB just made a mistake.  Results back that.  With Weber we got knocked out if the first round, with Subban, the preda pretty much shit down Toews and not only finally beat the Hawks, swept them.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Let's not get back into the Subban trade. My original point - that this team is now at a stage where bold moves undertaken to fill actual, identifiable, and glaring roster holes absolutely must be made, if we are to have any hope of being serious Cup contenders - stands. If you want to tell yourself that MB has already made 'bold moves' that somehow improved the team, even though the team is not one fraction better overall now than it was in 2015, then have it your way. It doesn't change the fact that MORE bold moves are required. After all, due to our incompetently-managed talent pipeline, there is basically zero help coming from the farm. Put two and two together: either we get bold moves, or we get more of the same pathetic excuse-making shit, year after year, until this core declines into cellar-dwelling purgatory.

 

I don't understand this urge to defend Bergevin. People point to this or that successful move, while missing the fact that it's been five years of futility with no reason to think year six will be any different.

[Guest Stogey24]

Some people defended Therrien too. Look where that chump is now. 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Weber was a bold move in the eyes of fans and media but to the old school types it was doing the right thing. Weber was supposed to alleviate risk. He's a leader and a mountain. You don't move him. He scores powerplay goals and always makes the short pass. He was supposed to cut down the risk in Montreal.

 

 Luckily Radulov signed (a "risk" since he's Russian, which was so dumb) and brought some electricity to the team. Radu plays with heart and takes risks. 

 

This franchise has three choices. Pay a large price for a number one centre and go for a Cup. Trade Carey and rebuild. Stay put with basically the same roster and slowly fall apart like Vancouver has.

[illWill]

5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

 

i would say Nashville made a bold move trading away their captain and longest tenured player, but MB just made a mistake.  Results back that.  With Weber we got knocked out if the first round, with Subban, the preda pretty much shit down Toews and not only finally beat the Hawks, swept them.

 

You're really telling us that the Predators that made it to game 7 of the second round in last year's playoffs won the trade because they are in the second round again this season, and the Canadiens who finished with the 9th worst record in the league last year but won their division and got eliminated in the first round lost the trade, based on those results?

 

Great logic there.

[Scott462]

Weber was a major reason we had any success in the playoffs, Radulov as well. Like I said they were our best players by a large margin.

[ehjay]

9 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Nobody knows what will do it until New York is ready to trade him. Right now that's a nuclear option. They are trying to move the team to a different area in New York (Belmont I think) and that team will be a hard sell without the franchise player.

 

Pacioretty would be a good start I think as an American, not too old, but he could leave as a UFA right soon. Not a rental but pretty close. I'm thinking more Galchenyuk would have to be in the deal. American, young, a centre if the coach isn't a brick. Then add from there.

 

If the Islanders say he will sign and trade to Montreal you probably go Chuck/Sergachev/x2 1sts. It's a big payment but you just solved the top centre issue for the next 6 seasons. Tavares is worth it. If that sounds too expensive to you, you get the team you pay for.

 

 

Done!! It would suck to loose Micha but John T is no Gomez!

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Weber was very good for the first three games. He was average to mediocre in the final three. -2 with one point in the final three games. His playoffs was a lot like his regular season.

 

Radulov and Lehkonen were the best on the team, followed by Carey. I know that's not popular to say because he didn't steal any games and allowed a few soft goals (as if every Hank goal was a an unstoppable Bure goal) but he did everything expected of a playoff starter to do.

 

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, illWill said:

 

You're really telling us that the Predators that made it to game 7 of the second round in last year's playoffs won the trade because they are in the second round again this season, and the Canadiens who finished with the 9th worst record in the league last year but won their division and got eliminated in the first round lost the trade based on those results?

 

Great logic there.

Preds had never beaten the hawks - who were favoured to win the cup.  They not only beat them but shut them down completely.  The unreliable, risky Subban totally shut down captain serious.

 

as for the Habs, the finished with the 9th worst record because they didn't have Price.  They had pretty much the same start last year as this year.  Only diffe nice was they had Price for the entire year.

 

the great leadership and character of Weber and Shaw was supposed to take the Habs deep in the playoffs.  Instead, the GM who made every deal on the guise of improving the character, leadership and experience of the guys he picked up, said the team was too fragile.  I thought it was a bad deal before the season started. The result just validated my opinion.

[PMAC]

13 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

So does Bergevin. Hence pushing Galchenyuk to the wing with Danault and Plekanec as the top two centres. Less (defensive) risk, no worry about spending too much on a trade.

 

I've theorized for a while now that Bergevin is waiting for his sweetheart deal. Ryder, Vanek, Petry, he won these deals because the risk was low in all of them on his end. Never had to worry about losing a first round pick. Never had to worry about a player locked for multiple years.

 

Like Bergevin, you're not ready to take a risk. Which means you're not ready to win a Cup. Which means there's no point to this team trying to compete. You play it safe too long you never get ahead. Every Cup winning team took a risk or two that could have cost them for years. Pittsburgh brought in Kessel. Chicago flipped chunks of their roster multiple times. LA went all in on two former Philly troublemakers. Boston had only a few years prior traded away Joe Thornton and Phil Kessel while putting it all on Thomas' shoulders. Detroit gambled with an old Osgood. Carolina acquired every veteran at the trade deadline available. I could go on and on.

 

I'm tired of safe Montreal. Looks too much like complacent Montreal. Take the risk or blow it up. Otherwise be happy when Galchenyuk gets moved for Mikael Backlund and a draft pick.

I do agree to a point, but selling A. Gally at his lowest value along with our best defensive prospect doesn't seem like the best solution to our centre problem. I much rather Bergevin offer sheet an Rfa or find another Khl steal. Let the flaming begin 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Honestly if this team doesn't do a successful RFA offer sheet or sign Shipachov they are going nowhere but down.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

8 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Honestly if this team doesn't do a successful RFA offer sheet or sign Shipachov they are going nowhere but down.

 

I really think we're looking more and more like the Leafs during the late 90s: a good veteran club with strong pieces, but not a true contender - and meanwhile the organization is rotting from the inside out due to atrocious drafting and development. Why does MB have to raid the KHL for 30-something vets? To patch over the pathetic failure to develop impact players.

 

This organization has gotten the fundamentals completely wrong, and it had better win soon, because the medium to long term looks dire.

[DON]

46 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I really think we're looking more and more like the Leafs during the late 90s: a good veteran club with strong pieces, but not a true contender - and meanwhile the organization is rotting from the inside out due to atrocious drafting and development. Why does MB have to raid the KHL for 30-something vets? To patch over the pathetic failure to develop impact players.

 

This organization has gotten the fundamentals completely wrong, and it had better win soon, because the medium to long term looks dire.

Holy crap Chicken Little, enough already!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

4 minutes ago, DON said:

Holy crap Chicken Little, enough already!

 

If I'm Chicken Little, then you're the Ostrich.

 

 

[DON]

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

If I'm Chicken Little, then you're the Ostrich.

 

 

Cheer up Bud, not sure why so dour in almost every post, not good for you to be like that.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

5 minutes ago, DON said:

Cheer up Bud, not sure why so dour in almost every post, not good for you to be like that.

 

The difference between us appears to be that I want the Habs to be legitimate contenders, and understood this to be Bergevin's mission. His laughable incompetence in doing this has left me disgusted. Now, you seem happy just to cheerlead for a team with a wretched talent pipeline and an aging core that is a reliable playoff team but nowhere near a true contender. If this were my attitude, then I would no doubt be more cheerful in my posts.

[nihilz]

IS there a particular RFA center that their team wouldn't be able to match a 7-8m 6-8yr term?

 

[PMAC]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The difference between us appears to be that I want the Habs to be legitimate contenders, and understood this to be Bergevin's mission. His laughable incompetence in doing this has left me disgusted. Now, you seem happy just to cheerlead for a team with a wretched talent pipeline and an aging core that is a reliable playoff team but nowhere near a true contender. If this were my attitude, then I would no doubt be more cheerful in my posts.

I know my opinion won't sway you, but MB took over a team in disarray and with no depth and has produced a team that contends. Do we  need centres? Absolutely. Do we need to improve player development? Absolutely, in fact, when there was a recent "What would you do if you owned the Canadiens" thread I noted that I would completely overhaul player and coach development within the organization. Is the current team doomed to mediocrity? Should Bergevin be fired and the drive for 25 continued by someone else? Absolutely not. The Sabres have just extended their rebuilding by 3-5 years by firing their GM. Stability is an important aspect of winning organizations that is too often overlooked in the "win now" mentality. In short, the expansion draft and cap will pressurize some teams and MB should be given the opportunity to and should be able to address the centre issue over this off season. I think the utter futility of our loss to the Rangers and the lingering bitterness of the Subban trade not addressing our need at centre have clouded your judgement on his body of work.

 

That said, if we enter next season with M. Danault as a candidate for our first line centre position then I will be forced to concede that you were right. Fortunately, right now I can't  foresee any possibility of that actually happening.

[habs rule]

I don't know where this belongs, and you are welcome to move it but I have a question:

HOW MANY DEFENCEMEN DO WE NEED?

Jakub Jerabek
Shea Weber
Andrei Markov
Jeff Petry
Alexei Emelin
Jordie Benn
Nathan Beaulieu
Brandon Davidson
Nikita Nesterov
Zach Redmond
Mikhail Sergachev
Brett Lernout
Noah Juulsen

Could we trade some of these guys for some offence? I know that there are no #1 centers available, cause mark down Mark said so. But are there maybe some left and right wingers who can score available? If the top 3 lines were loaded with guys who could score, how important is the scoring center? We need offence and I for one do not care where it comes from. Left Right Center who cares? Let's get rid of the plumbers and get some scoring. Just my opinion.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

29 minutes ago, habs rule said:

I don't know where this belongs, and you are welcome to move it but I have a question:

HOW MANY DEFENCEMEN DO WE NEED?

Jakub Jerabek
Shea Weber
Andrei Markov
Jeff Petry
Alexei Emelin
Jordie Benn
Nathan Beaulieu
Brandon Davidson
Nikita Nesterov
Zach Redmond
Mikhail Sergachev
Brett Lernout
Noah Juulsen

Could we trade some of these guys for some offence? I know that there are no #1 centers available, cause mark down Mark said so. But are there maybe some left and right wingers who can score available? If the top 3 lines were loaded with guys who could score, how important is the scoring center? We need offence and I for one do not care where it comes from. Left Right Center who cares? Let's get rid of the plumbers and get some scoring. Just my opinion.

 

Well, one question is how many of those guys would fetch legitimate top-6 scoring talent. Maybe Petry, but he has an NTC, doesn't he? And his contract will not appeal. Weber is untradeable because his absence would cripple our D. Sergachev certainly would get a top-6 FW. But that would truly deplete an already horrible prospect system.

 

One thing that gets lost in all the hoo-haw about a #1 C is that we have ZERO top-6 C, period - never mind a legit #1. So even bona-fide 2nd-line centremen would be upgrades for this roster. Once you frame it that way, the mission of going out and getting a C who can help the offence stops sounding so 'tough,' although of course Bergevin will probably have a long list of excuses as to why even that is impossible. But if we went out and got two 55-60 point C, well, that would help a lot.

 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, PMAC said:

I know my opinion won't sway you, but MB took over a team in disarray and with no depth and has produced a team that contends. Do we  need centres? Absolutely. Do we need to improve player development? Absolutely, in fact, when there was a recent "What would you do if you owned the Canadiens" thread I noted that I would completely overhaul player and coach development within the organization. Is the current team doomed to mediocrity? Should Bergevin be fired and the drive for 25 continued by someone else? Absolutely not. The Sabres have just extended their rebuilding by 3-5 years by firing their GM. Stability is an important aspect of winning organizations that is too often overlooked in the "win now" mentality. In short, the expansion draft and cap will pressurize some teams and MB should be given the opportunity to and should be able to address the centre issue over this off season. I think the utter futility of our loss to the Rangers and the lingering bitterness of the Subban trade not addressing our need at centre have clouded your judgement on his body of work.

 

That said, if we enter next season with M. Danault as a candidate for our first line centre position then I will be forced to concede that you were right. Fortunately, right now I can't  foresee any possibility of that actually happening.

Or maybe the sabres realized current Mgmt isn't going to get them there and want someone who will. I wish Molson would do the same

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, PMAC said:

I know my opinion won't sway you, but MB took over a team in disarray and with no depth and has produced a team that contends. Do we  need centres? Absolutely. Do we need to improve player development? Absolutely, in fact, when there was a recent "What would you do if you owned the Canadiens" thread I noted that I would completely overhaul player and coach development within the organization. Is the current team doomed to mediocrity? Should Bergevin be fired and the drive for 25 continued by someone else? Absolutely not. The Sabres have just extended their rebuilding by 3-5 years by firing their GM. Stability is an important aspect of winning organizations that is too often overlooked in the "win now" mentality. In short, the expansion draft and cap will pressurize some teams and MB should be given the opportunity to and should be able to address the centre issue over this off season. I think the utter futility of our loss to the Rangers and the lingering bitterness of the Subban trade not addressing our need at centre have clouded your judgement on his body of work.

 

That said, if we enter next season with M. Danault as a candidate for our first line centre position then I will be forced to concede that you were right. Fortunately, right now I can't  foresee any possibility of that actually happening.

 

Nice post, but you're right that it won't sway me. Bergevin inherited Price, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Subban, Markov, and Gallagher. In other words, the core he inherited is still the core. He added Galchenyuk, but either the kid is problematic or his regime has screwed him up. He shipped Subban out for Weber on a pointless lateral move that aged the core by four years and did not improve the team. He added Petry. He added Radulov, but that's after Plekanec began his precipitous decline. And of course he added a bunch of 4th-line hulks and Shaw, none of which represent core pieces. The team is no better now than it was in 2015, and most of the improvement from 2013 to 2015 was a result of maturation of those inherited core pieces. In other words, he's had five years to take a good inherited core and make a contender out of it. He has quite obviously failed to do so.

 

You say he should be 'given the opportunity to address the centre issue' this summer. Trouble is, he's already whined that it's too 'tough' for him to fix this problem. And like I say, he's had years to address this ongoing sore-point. His best answers so far have been David Desharnais and Philip Danault. Colour me unconvinced. I'm with Habs29, he should be out on his ass; but I doubt Kegmeister Molson will do it. So we're stuck hoping that Bergevin can break the trend-lines of five years of boobery and start making the right moves.

[DON]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The difference between us appears to be that I want the Habs to be legitimate contenders (and you think I don't?), and understood this to be Bergevin's mission (obviously is, if he wants a long career in NHL Mgmt). His laughable incompetence in doing this has left me disgusted (when many are not). Now, you seem happy just to cheerlead for a team with a wretched talent pipeline (you want me to bitch about a mediocre prospect pool, aint happening) and an aging core (we all are aging, Habs are not oldest or youngest) that is a reliable playoff team (most of reason they play 82 games isn't it?) but nowhere near a true contender (not all cup winners are seen as true contenders and is part of fun in sport "its why they play the game!", sorry am just a fan which entails being somewhat irrational, in the end is just a sports team, not real life). If this were my attitude, then I would no doubt be more cheerful in my posts (why take it so serious and seem so pissed off, I doubt all the constant pot shots at Bergevin-Molson-etc do anyone anygood, of course some are humorous but constant theme is the opposite of that and seems way too bitter.)

I am fine with being too much a cheerleader, less cynical or pessimistic and I just have a hard time understanding those who simply act like they hate the whole frickin franchise from top to bottom, but seemingly begrudgingly cheer them on, when doing well.

Anyways, we obviously agree to totally disagree on state of Habs, which is fine.

[Guest Stogey24]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Or maybe the sabres realized current Mgmt isn't going to get them there and want someone who will. I wish Molson would do the same

Amen. 

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, habs rule said:

I don't know where this belongs, and you are welcome to move it but I have a question:

HOW MANY DEFENCEMEN DO WE NEED?

Jakub Jerabek
Shea Weber
Andrei Markov
Jeff Petry
Alexei Emelin
Jordie Benn
Nathan Beaulieu
Brandon Davidson
Nikita Nesterov
Zach Redmond
Mikhail Sergachev
Brett Lernout
Noah Juulsen

Could we trade some of these guys for some offence? I know that there are no #1 centers available, cause mark down Mark said so. But are there maybe some left and right wingers who can score available? If the top 3 lines were loaded with guys who could score, how important is the scoring center? We need offence and I for one do not care where it comes from. Left Right Center who cares? Let's get rid of the plumbers and get some scoring. Just my opinion.

 

Nesterov is a FA who won't be re-signed. 

 

Juulsen is likely starting in the minors. 

Redmond is likely in the minors based on this season. 

Lernout is likely in the minors. 

 

Markov is currently a UFA, but I expect him back. 

 

I expect Beaulieu to be traded, no doubt in my mind. 

 

I could see Emelin traded. 

 

 

That makes your likely NHL roster. (Combos can change, just sketching it out)

 

Markov - Weber

Emelin - Petry

Sergachev - Benn

Jedrik - Davidson

 

And one of those could be gone, either via trade (Emelin), or expansion draft.