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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr

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I'll definitely take a legit top four LD back for Pacioretty. A Josh Morrissey type? Sure.

 

I think it's fool's gold to dream of getting a 1C for Pacioretty in 2018. Maybe in 2014, but not 2018. You're better off trading guys like Pacioretty so your GF is even lower so you can finish bottom of the standings and draft a 1C in the Top 5.

 

If Bergevin got back a 1st round pick in 2019, 2nd round pick in 2019, and a solid D prospect, I'd be content. 

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10 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I'll definitely take a legit top four LD back for Pacioretty. A Josh Morrissey type? Sure.

 

I think it's fool's gold to dream of getting a 1C for Pacioretty in 2018. Maybe in 2014, but not 2018. You're better off trading guys like Pacioretty so your GF is even lower so you can finish bottom of the standings and draft a 1C in the Top 5.

 

If Bergevin got back a 1st round pick in 2019, 2nd round pick in 2019, and a solid D prospect, I'd be content. 

Bout same as Martin Hanzal cost last year.

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More of an off season move but a deal that could make sense for both teams:

 

To Montreal: Giroux, Gostisbehere, and Elliott 

To Philly: Price, Galchenyuk and a second

 

Montreal gets a scoring center and also a puck moving LD. Lindgren and Elliott battle it out for the starting goalie position next season, plus lots of prospects in the pipeline. Giroux, Drouin, Danault down the middle, Pacioretty, Lehkonen and Hudon on the left

 

Philly finally gets an elite goalie and replaces production on the wing.  They can roll out Couturier and Patrick at center moving forward

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Yeah, i'm a no on that one.  I think Giroux is aging and declining (even if his first half of the season was a bit of a resurgence) and I'm not a fan of that contract at all. 

Price > Giroux

Galchenyuk is better than Gostisbehere in my mnd, a guy who never lived up to the rookie production and we are now seeing big defensive warts, 

and we give up a pick to get Elliott. 

 

Such a downgrade in talent IMO

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Yeah, i'm a no on that one.  I think Giroux is aging and declining (even if his first half of the season was a bit of a resurgence) and I'm not a fan of that contract at all. 

Price > Giroux

Galchenyuk is better than Gostisbehere in my mnd, a guy who never lived up to the rookie production and we are now seeing big defensive warts, 

and we give up a pick to get Elliott. 

 

Such a downgrade in talent IMO

 

Giroux is tied for second in league scoring. Gostisbehere is tied for third in league scoring among defensemen.

 

Giroux only has 4 more years on his current contract and he is more than earning it this year. Price will be earning 2.25 million more than Giroux per season for 8 more years after this one and has not come close to earning that amount based on this season. I agree in the sense that Price > Giroux based on talent, but when you factor in the contracts and the organizational need, that evens it out. 

 

Gostisbehere is on pace for 69 points this season...never lived up to rookie production?? He can have all of the defensive warts in the world but if he putting up 69 points as a defenseman he can play on my team any day. He is also locked in at a great value 4.5 million contract for the next 5 seasons. When you compare that to Galchenyuk who only has two years remaining on his deal before becoming a UFA, it's the worse of the two contracts. And again, when you factor in the organizational need for a left handed puck moving dman, it's a win in my opinion. 

 

Trading a second round pick to get Elliott who could start a majority of the games is not going to hurt the team at all. 

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On 2/17/2018 at 7:07 AM, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I'll definitely take a legit top four LD back for Pacioretty. A Josh Morrissey type? Sure.

 

I think it's fool's gold to dream of getting a 1C for Pacioretty in 2018. Maybe in 2014, but not 2018. You're better off trading guys like Pacioretty so your GF is even lower so you can finish bottom of the standings and draft a 1C in the Top 5.

 

If Bergevin got back a 1st round pick in 2019, 2nd round pick in 2019, and a solid D prospect, I'd be content. 

If all you’re getting back for Pacioretty is a defensive prospect and two picks for next year, why even trade him this year at all? You can still get those draft picks next year as a rental, so all you’re leaning on is that defensive prospect to replace the impact Pacioretty has on the team.

 

In the meantime, things can change from year to year as seen by Tampa Bay and Boston having missed the playoffs last season, and perhaps Pacioretty becomes valuable to a competitive Habs team once again next year.

 

Pacioretty being traded has potential to help our future, however it is not the only way the Habs can become better in the future. It’s also overlooked that trading him could have a ln even further negative consequence for the team. Trading him for two picks in a couple of years, as well as for a defensive prospect on a team that needs more than one more defensive prospect is one of those ways, in my opinion.

 

The only one who can come close to replicating his goal scoring on the Habs is Galchenyuk. Outside of that, people are dreaming if they think Drouin, Lehkonen, Hudon or anyone else could do just as well as him. 

 

It seems to me that some people just want to trade him for the sake of change rather than for the betterment of the team. That’s why I’m very skeptical about moving him. If we do send him packing, I see it as a 50/50 move, unless we completely rob someone. Trading him for two picks in a couple of years and a defensive prospect is 50/50 at best. If anything more is a pipe dream, why let him go?

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And I already hear the thoughts of many about what I said.... “that’s exactly how management wants you to feel” .... “we can’t be competitive next year” ... “the only possible way for us to have a chance is to get younger”

 

and those are just as much opinions as saying that we can compete next year...

 

Realistically, the odds of winning a cup next year are low. They are even lower if we don’t make the correct moves in the next half year. I agree with all of that. What I don’t agree with is that it’s inpossible for us to be a contender next year, even if it’s *second tier* and that’s what everyone’s basically saying. 

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4 hours ago, illWill said:

More of an off season move but a deal that could make sense for both teams:

 

To Montreal: Giroux, Gostisbehere, and Elliott 

To Philly: Price, Galchenyuk and a second

 

Montreal gets a scoring center and also a puck moving LD. Lindgren and Elliott battle it out for the starting goalie position next season, plus lots of prospects in the pipeline. Giroux, Drouin, Danault down the middle, Pacioretty, Lehkonen and Hudon on the left

 

Philly finally gets an elite goalie and replaces production on the wing.  They can roll out Couturier and Patrick at center moving forward

Apologies for triple posting but as for this deal, the only way I make it is if Price truly has some chronic fatigue issue and what we saw this year is him from here on out. Barring that, we’re trading him when we as fans have one of our lowest ever perceptions of him. 

 

This is regardless of the return, unless it were a McDavid or something of the like. This is one instance where I agree with age playing a factor and while Giroux is elite, there are many other elite players in the leavue, centers included, who will have much longer elite years left than him.

 

Next year would give us a different look though, that’s for sure. 

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2 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Apologies for triple posting but as for this deal, the only way I make it is if Price truly has some chronic fatigue issue and what we saw this year is him from here on out. Barring that, we’re trading him when we as fans have one of our lowest ever perceptions of him. 

 

This is regardless of the return, unless it were a McDavid or something of the like. This is one instance where I agree with age playing a factor and while Giroux is elite, there are many other elite players in the leavue, centers included, who will have much longer elite years left than him.

 

Next year would give us a different look though, that’s for sure. 

 

My logic is based that we seem to be able to develop goalies no problem at all. We likely don't have a Price in the system but surely one of Lindgren, McNiven, Fucale, or Primeau can become a starter for the Habs down the road. And Galchenyuk is playing on the wing, which we also seem to have an abundance of. Two areas need improvement on this team; down the middle and on defense. Enter Giroux and Gostisbehere. Even if we say that we were to agree that we lose the trade slightly, the overall strength of the team will improve in my opinion. I don't foresee another plausible scenario where we fix the holes on this team without trading something of value. Unless of course we win the lottery (low chance no matter where we finish) and sign Tavares (low chance, and combine the two happening and it's near impossible). 

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47 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

If all you’re getting back for Pacioretty is a defensive prospect and two picks for next year, why even trade him this year at all? You can still get those draft picks next year as a rental, so all you’re leaning on is that defensive prospect to replace the impact Pacioretty has on the team.

 

In the meantime, things can change from year to year as seen by Tampa Bay and Boston having missed the playoffs last season, and perhaps Pacioretty becomes valuable to a competitive Habs team once again next year.

 

Pacioretty being traded has potential to help our future, however it is not the only way the Habs can become better in the future. It’s also overlooked that trading him could have a ln even further negative consequence for the team. Trading him for two picks in a couple of years, as well as for a defensive prospect on a team that needs more than one more defensive prospect is one of those ways, in my opinion.

 

The only one who can come close to replicating his goal scoring on the Habs is Galchenyuk. Outside of that, people are dreaming if they think Drouin, Lehkonen, Hudon or anyone else could do just as well as him. 

 

It seems to me that some people just want to trade him for the sake of change rather than for the betterment of the team. That’s why I’m very skeptical about moving him. If we do send him packing, I see it as a 50/50 move, unless we completely rob someone. Trading him for two picks in a couple of years and a defensive prospect is 50/50 at best. If anything more is a pipe dream, why let him go?

 

You think he will have more value at the 2019 NHL trade deadline than the 2018 NHL trade deadline? 

 

What negative consequence? He's been a weak captain. Can things change year to year? It did. This team will have missed the playoffs 2/3 years. They were awful in the second half of 15-16 but did well enough in the first half not to tumble out of first in a weak Atlantic. 

 

You are clinging to a bad team getting worse. This team needs to rebuild. It wasn't close to a Cup last year and now it's even further from what it was. Last year they needed a Top 4 LD. Now they need two. Last year they needed a top six C. Now they need two. Who did they replace Radulov with? What happens if Weber comes back from injury worse? What if Price can't be .925 elite next year?

 

This club is closer to the bottom than the top. Much closer. Stop praying for the impossible. Trade Pacioretty for the next package possible, and if that's at the deadline, you do it. It ain't gonna get better in June or next February.

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1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

You think he will have more value at the 2019 NHL trade deadline than the 2018 NHL trade deadline? 

 

What negative consequence? He's been a weak captain. Can things change year to year? It did. This team will have missed the playoffs 2/3 years. They were awful in the second half of 15-16 but did well enough in the first half not to tumble out of first in a weak Atlantic. 

 

You are clinging to a bad team getting worse. This team needs to rebuild. It wasn't close to a Cup last year and now it's even further from what it was. Last year they needed a Top 4 LD. Now they need two. Last year they needed a top six C. Now they need two. Who did they replace Radulov with? What happens if Weber comes back from injury worse? What if Price can't be .925 elite next year?

 

This club is closer to the bottom than the top. Much closer. Stop praying for the impossible. Trade Pacioretty for the next package possible, and if that's at the deadline, you do it. It ain't gonna get better in June or next February.

So are you saying that pacioretty needs to go at all costs this deadline regardless of what they get back? Best package available. 

 

Is he a bad captain?

What does a captain do?

Wears a C. Talks to refs and linesmen.... that's about it.

 

I want to trade pacioretty.  He is a great asset for trade. But if the deal isn't there,  the deal isn't there.  You don't trade him cuz he doesnt take ceremonial face offs well. I would wager 20% of his goals over the years have been from stretch passes. There is nobody to feed him that pass. The team sucks and it has nothing to do with Max Pacioretty and his captain skills. If trading Pacioretty fills a top c hole, you do it. But you sure don't trade him just to get rid of him.

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1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

You think he will have more value at the 2019 NHL trade deadline than the 2018 NHL trade deadline? 

 

We know one player whose value might never be higher and is more expendable that Maximillian (but obviously a fan favourite)...#11.

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2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

You think he will have more value at the 2019 NHL trade deadline than the 2018 NHL trade deadline? 

 

What negative consequence? He's been a weak captain. Can things change year to year? It did. This team will have missed the playoffs 2/3 years. They were awful in the second half of 15-16 but did well enough in the first half not to tumble out of first in a weak Atlantic. 

 

You are clinging to a bad team getting worse. This team needs to rebuild. It wasn't close to a Cup last year and now it's even further from what it was. Last year they needed a Top 4 LD. Now they need two. Last year they needed a top six C. Now they need two. Who did they replace Radulov with? What happens if Weber comes back from injury worse? What if Price can't be .925 elite next year?

 

This club is closer to the bottom than the top. Much closer. Stop praying for the impossible. Trade Pacioretty for the next package possible, and if that's at the deadline, you do it. It ain't gonna get better in June or next February.

The only thing I’ve seen you generally state is that you are fine with the team being a bottom feeder for multiple years from here on out, so I simply have to take your opinion on this with a grain of salt.

 

There’s some mythological perception that even if we did suck for 5 years and attained decent draft picks and prospects, we will automatically be great after the pain. Furthermore, how can we have people complaining that we suck in the present, and then see them finding ways to make our team even worse, for the greater good of the future.

 

Statistically, we are closer to the bottom than the top but I haven’t seen a team all season who is absolutely dominant in the east. Pittsburgh would STILL be a team I’d fear the most, and they haven’t even been that great this year. Tampa Bay and Boston may have some people in awe, but I think the Habs have had better teams than those 2018 teams in the recent past. 

 

The league has more parity than ever, and it doesn’t take such extreme measures to make us compete again.

 

Our biggest losses last year came on the back end. We lost Beaulieu, Emelin and Markov. Beaulieu and Emelin have turned out to be crap, partially because they feel naked outside of Montreal, but as a unit they were completely fine on our team.

 

We then decided to trade Sergachev who could have replaced any one of those players for a center in Drouin “who didn’t pan out” in the position. Our next proposed move now is to trade Pacioretty to replace the Sergachev prospect we traded for Drouin? Well, I guess that makes us better overall, right? 

 

Center is an issue but our left defense is an even greater issue and while you happen to be one of the few who have actually at least stated we should get a defensive prospect in return, most people, including media, are claiming the best piece needs to be a center in a return for Pacioretty.

 

There is definitely a lack of clarity in what we should get in return for Pacioretty and so why should we assume the move itself will be great? 

 

I did not say that I think Pacioretty will have higher value next year, but he will certainly be able to get us 1st and 2nd 2019 draft picks + next year, which is what you proposed trading him for this year. Why not hold on to him then? He’s not as bad as you claim, otherwise you’d have a point. 

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Yawn.

 

There's no guarantee rebuilding will get a Cup. I know that.

 

But there's absolutely a guarantee that the team Marc Bergevin assembled will not win a Stanley Cup. They can't even make it out of the first round. Almost every trade has been blowing up in their face. The free agent signing have been abysmal. There is no hope here.

 

What's worse is that management in Montreal is at or near the bottom in the NHL. The guy who almost ruined Vancouver in Eric Crawford is the Habs main pro scout. The prospect pool is shallow. Laval is terrible in the AHL. All Julien has done is made Montreal good at carrying the puck and taking bad shots. Still nobody knows what Scott Mellanby does.

 

So yeah I'm fine with this team being completely torn apart from roster to management and trying something new. Let's rebuild our prospect pool with top 5 picks. Find a scouting director that knows what a centre looks like. 

 

You know how pathetic Montreal is right now? They didn't have enough great players to protect from Vegas taking. They ended up protecting Jordie Benn because they didn't have much else to protect. That's how bad it is here. And you want to save that? You want to bank on that? You think the prayer of one free agent signing will turn that around? Have fun with that. 

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Tearing our team apart does nothing to solve the management issue.

 

If you were to tell me you were uncertain about the team’s future because our management has proven incompetent in addressing our team’s needs, I would be able to buy into that. 

 

If we tear the team apart, the same management team will be here and as of now, they will be the one’s doing the tearing apart. I’m not sure why I should have trust in that. 

 

At the beginning of this very year, we were one Markov or Radulov away from being a playoff team who can compete (though we needed both). Now we’ve become a team who needs to trade away an elite goal scorer and rebuild.

 

Either way, fans were complaining about those things, and I believe we could be closer to the former than the latter if we play our cards right. I was one of the most vocal on here about this season’s team and our lack of a real opportunity but it was because of the unspent cap space, not because we have plugs Pacioretty, Price and Weber on the team.

 

If the return for Pacioretty is great, fine. All I was saying was that we shouldn’t do it for the trade proposed of a prospect and two 2019 picks because that kills us 100% next year, which would be a sure fire way of proving “this team can’t win a Stanley Cup under Bergevin”.

 

 

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Tearing our team apart does nothing to solve the management issue.

 

If you were to tell me you were uncertain about the team’s future because our management has proven incompetent in addressing our team’s needs, I would be able to buy into that. 

 

If we tear the team apart, the same management team will be here and as of now, they will be the one’s doing the tearing apart. I’m not sure why I should have trust in that. 

 

At the beginning of this very year, we were one Markov or Radulov away from being a playoff team who can compete (though we needed both). Now we’ve become a team who needs to trade away an elite goal scorer and rebuild.

 

Either way, fans were complaining about those things, and I believe we could be closer to the former than the latter if we play our cards right. I was one of the most vocal on here about this season’s team and our lack of a real opportunity but it was because of the unspent cap space, not because we have plugs Pacioretty, Price and Weber on the team.

 

If the return for Pacioretty is great, fine. All I was saying was that we shouldn’t do it for the trade proposed of a prospect and two 2019 picks because that kills us 100% next year, which would be a sure fire way of proving “this team can’t win a Stanley Cup under Bergevin”.

 

 

 

Can people please stop over hyping Pacioretty. He is NOT elite. He might have good goal totals over the last X years.. but he's a floater. He coasts. He loses battles. Watch the game last night, there were several plays where Pacs was just uninterested. He's S-O-F-T. 

You trade him now to maximize the return unless you are sure you'll get more for him at the draft. There is NO WAY you start next season with him as your Captain. 

I have no real sources, no way of knowing what happens in the room - but I am 100% certain Pacs walks after next season. Even if he were to stay, he is not worth the 8 million he is going to cost Montreal. (Taxes, gotta up the money to make it comparable)

 

Trade him for a GREAT prospect. A Thomas or a Borgstrom.. a true top 6 Center prospect. He NEEDS to go. 

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20 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

 

Can people please stop over hyping Pacioretty. He is NOT elite. He might have good goal totals over the last X years.. 

 

He has averaged 30.49g/82gms for his career 562games, do you know how many active in the NHL today have better career production? No, neither do I..maybe dlbalr or someone with more information could answer.

But would be less than 10 is my guess.

(he also is 3rd among Hab forwards in PK time, so not sure how can say he does nothing when not scoring)

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7 minutes ago, DON said:

He has averaged 30.49g/82gms for his career 562games, do you know how many active in the NHL today have better career production? No, neither do I..maybe dlbalr or someone with more information could answer.

But would be less than 10 is my guess.

2

 

19th - http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-players-all-time-goals-per-game-leaders.html

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25 minutes ago, DON said:

 

He has averaged 30.49g/82gms for his career 562games, do you know how many active in the NHL today have better career production? No, neither do I..maybe dlbalr or someone with more information could answer.

But would be less than 10 is my guess.

(he also is 3rd among Hab forwards in PK time, so not sure how can say he does nothing when not scoring)

 

I acknowledged that he scores a lot. But on MOST nights he is a floater. He is one of the softest forwards I've ever watched play for the Habs. 

 

Is Vanek elite? Is James Neal elite? No. They score. (Or used to score) They're not game changers. 

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We’ll have to agree to disagree. I watch as many Habs games as I can and 70% of the time I see him as a floater.

 

Regardless, he goes now or at the draft, you can’t let an asset like that walk for nothing next summer.

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3 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I watch as many Habs games as I can and 70% of the time I see him as a floater.

 

Regardless, he goes now or at the draft, you can’t let an asset like that walk for nothing next summer.

Or extend him this July.

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1 minute ago, DON said:

Or extend him this July.

 

Hahahahahahaha.

He’s not re-signing in Montreal. Too much pressure and he’s been called one of the worst captains of all time.

Plus, with the tax situation.. his next contract will be at least 8 mil per year.You might be ok with that, but way too much in my mind.

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1 hour ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

 

I acknowledged that he scores a lot. But on MOST nights he is a floater. He is one of the softest forwards I've ever watched play for the Habs. 

Plekanec is the softest on the team; he has always been.

Pacioretty is not as bad as most people say.

He is still one of my favorites, but I would not mind trading him it the return was puck moving LD that can be #2 with Weber and have some grit.

Anything less makes would not get this team out of being  a bottom-feeding club for the next few years

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