Jump to content

Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr
 Share

Recommended Posts

Agreed.

But with Gorges, Cole, Moen, Pleks and Markov, plus DD, Patches, Price, Prust and Boullion setting the tone I am not worried about leadership, determination/grit, or locker room splits.

The NTC is the bigger issue for sure. He would have to want to go back to NJ.

Young veterans still need older veterans to lean on for advice. Otherwise you get the Toronto Maple Leafs locker room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can move Gionta for someone bigger without downgrading the talent level, sure do it. But lets remember that Gio has led our team in goals in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and we are a team that doesn't score enough goals to begin with. Right now we have 3 capable top 6 wingers in Cole, Patches, and Gionta. We need to add a 4th, and while I'm fine with moving Gionta in a lateral move for a bigger player, we can not afford to trade him if we aren't getting the same talent back.

It's because he's led our team in goals 2 of the last 3 seasons and is our captain that I'd rather keep him. I don't consider Clarkson to be equal talent to Gio. Sure he brings a different element of size and toughness but if Lou called asking us to trade a pretty sure 25 goal guy and a leader in the locker room for a potential one year wonder (and a possible rental at that) I want them to add something (or take someone) in return. I'm not shopping Brian, we know Semins off the market, Doan wants $30MM if you can get him, Ducks would want a lot more for Ryan so its basic supply and demand and you try and exploit that - even with a legend like Lou. I see Montreal taking the bigger risk of Clarkson repeating his goal total than Gio regardless of where he plays. Gomez is just a cash risk, no different than the Canes hoping Semin can find his $7MM game.

Would it be a miracle to see Gomez & Gionta go to the Devils and combine for 100 points next year while Clarkson slipped back to 15 goals and walk at year end with everyone calling Lou a genius for swindling the Habs rookie GM?

I'm saying it's not, based on history it's probably a 25% chance, 50% chance it works out for both clubs and 25% chance the Habs come out on top. Obviously others have a different opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a little difference between hoping Semin can find his game at 7m when he still scored 21 goals and 54 points... has 1 season in the last 6 years under 26 goals.

and hoping Scott Gomez regains his form when he scored 2 goals and 11 points last year..... and 49 points combined over 2 full seasons.

I'm seriously starting to wonder about you, these comparisons are awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a little difference between hoping Semin can find his game at 7m when he still scored 21 goals and 54 points... has 1 season in the last 6 years under 26 goals.

and hoping Scott Gomez regains his form when he scored 2 goals and 11 points last year..... and 49 points combined over 2 full seasons.

I'm seriously starting to wonder about you, these comparisons are awful.

Off the top of my head have probably watched 2000 games and played 2000 more so know enough that focussing on a bad year or a good year will bite you in the ass more times than not but yes tired of debating a hypothetical proposal to death so onto something else

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thing with Gomez it's a 2 year time frame he has been nothing but a detritvore on the Habs.

I would be completely against trading Gionta, I expect 26-30 goals from him this year.

However I would love to get Clarkson!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no chance NJ gives up Clarkson for Gionta however unless the Habs seriously sweeten the pot. And then how does that address our forward situation and lack of a LWer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the oilers bloggers was suggesting a trade of Subban for Yakupov. I have seen lots of posts about how Subban should only be traded for the likes of Malkin, Stamkos etc, but if negotiations with Subban are not going well, would you consider this trade? It could potentially set our top line for the next decade.

(null)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the oilers bloggers was suggesting a trade of Subban for Yakupov. I have seen lots of posts about how Subban should only be traded for the likes of Malkin, Stamkos etc, but if negotiations with Subban are not going well, would you consider this trade? It could potentially set our top line for the next decade.

(null)

Negotiations are fine. Carey Price in his previous contract took until late in the year just as Subban is now. Bergebin wants him signed for 2 years to ensure he remains an RFA when this deal is done and Subban wants a long term contract. In the end they will sign for 3 years at a dollar value around $3.0-$3.5 is my guess.

As for whether I would make that trade no.

Yakupov has the potential to be a superstar but I would argue that right now Subban is the 2nd most important player on this team. He is, at 23, our best D-man, our PP catalyst, our PK shut down guy and the player who goes against the oppositions best. The problem is that we do not have anyone right now capable of filing the void should he depart.

Under different circumstances and if Tinordi, beaulieu, Ellis, Dietz or whomever else were ready to step in then I would say make the move because we are extremely thin on LWers but right now it makes no sense for MTL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're right and I agree with what you say. The only thing is, as you say we have lots of D in the pipeline and not many forwards. If we aren't going to contend this year and if negotiations aren't going as smoothly as we hope, it may be worth considering sacrificing playoffs this year for a run at the cup in 2-3 years.

(null)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's an interesting idea. And I think that, in the medium to longer term, that trade probably could help our team become a real contender (imagine Yakupov and Galy down the middle).

Problem is, as you guys note, it would decimate our defence for the short- to medium-term, probably making our team substantially worse for this coming season and maybe 1-2 seasons thereafter. So - unless you're willing to suffer a true 'rebuild' for the next couple of seasons - if you make that deal you absolutely must make a further deal to bolster the back end. You can see where this very quickly becomes unmanageable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's an interesting idea. And I think that, in the medium to longer term, that trade probably could help our team become a real contender (imagine Yakupov and Galy down the middle).

Problem is, as you guys note, it would decimate our defence for the short- to medium-term, probably making our team substantially worse for this coming season and maybe 1-2 seasons thereafter. So - unless you're willing to suffer a true 'rebuild' for the next couple of seasons - if you make that deal you absolutely must make a further deal to bolster the back end. You can see where this very quickly becomes unmanageable.

If we did it... we would need to make a move for a top d-man and give up a lot. High picks and one of our best prospects to stop us from finishing last. Course if we did finish last we would have McKin-Yakupov-Gally.... which would be hilariously op

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now, the team has one definite young top six forward (Pacioretty), one definite young top pairing D (Subban) and one definite young starting goaltender (Price).

Everyone else is unproven and by no means a guarantee. You don't trade those guys. You keep those guys and build around them. The Galchenyuk's, Kristo's and Gallagher's are to be built around Patches. The Beaulieu, Tinordi's and Ellis' are to be built around Subban. The whole team is built around Price, our franchise player.

I'd absolutely love to have Yakupov as he'll be an 80+ point player but I'm not losing Subban unless he's the odd man out in our D corps, like Jack Johnson was in LA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. Tend to agree with what you are saying. To play devils advocate a little, would you trade Markov for Yakupov?

(null)

Mid 30s often injured top pairing blueliner that makes an entire team better for an 18 year old rookie who hasn't played a game in the NHL yet?

I'd likely make the deal though it would never be offered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. Tend to agree with what you are saying. To play devils advocate a little, would you trade Markov for Yakupov?

(null)

In a second but Markov's missed pretty much the last 2.5 years and comes with a big cap hit - he's close to the Gomez class for untradeable unless he can show he's returned to form, the 2012 version wasn't much to write home about.

Younger guys usually bounce back from knee injuries but older guys not so much, I blew out my MCL over a year ago and doubtful it'll ever be the same

Heard rumblings before the draft the Oil would've dropped to get Murray if they could've gotten something of value in return or potentially even part with Hall in return for a top end D after picking Nail but that was prior to them landing Schultz, doubt they'll be moving any of their top guys now - will be interesting to see if paybacks a bitch for Lowe when some of his big name RFAs are up next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a risk for sure, but they are putting a lot of trust in Schultz to be their top guy considering he hasn't played in NHL yet. Who better to tutor him than Markov? From our point of view we would sacrifice this season in the hope our young D develop as planned and Yakupov turns into an 80 point guy. Risk and reward for both sides.

(null)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think that'd be a tough sell. Markov would have to prove he's healthy to get his trade value up and then I guess we'd have to decide if we keep him knowing his history, still a healthy Andrei is probably more valuable to us than what we'd get in return

Guys of Yaks level would be unlikely but maybe a guy like Fillpulla with the Wings needing D if we wanted to hedge our bets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. Tend to agree with what you are saying. To play devils advocate a little, would you trade Markov for Yakupov?

(null)

Yes, but the Oil wouldn't touch it.

Also the Oil are not as in need of defencemen as many believe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, and because theres not much else to talk about, if Markov returned to something like his old form, do you think the oilers would consider this trade at the deadline?

(null)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, and because theres not much else to talk about, if Markov returned to something like his old form, do you think the oilers would consider this trade at the deadline?

(null)

Don't see it happening, if Markov moves at the deadline it will be to a contender (assuming neither Mtl or Edm are) and nobody usually wants to give up roster players at that point, maybe picks and a prospect or 2.

Maybe the Caps with his buddy OV there who lost Wideman and Green being a question mark might pay a little more than others, I'd seriously consider a guy like Tom Wilson if he was available

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some buzz on the net about Yannick wanting out, he's denied the report but regardless looking at the depth chart he has to be thinking he's the odd man out.

Seems like he's been around forever but only 23, good numbers in Kitchener and Hamilton, even his NHL stats aren't horrible given he's bounced from wing to D to press box.

Would we be giving up on him too early and regret it?

Don't think we can send him down without clearing waivers anymore so either he makes the roster or he'll be on the move, the Isles might be a good trade partner to pair him with Streit but what is he worth?

Would love to get a guy like Matt Martin but thinking we'd have to throw in some extras to make that happen

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

As for whether I would make that trade no.

Yakupov has the potential to be a superstar but I would argue that right now Subban is the 2nd most important player on this team. He is, at 23, our best D-man, our PP catalyst, our PK shut down guy and the player who goes against the oppositions best. The problem is that we do not have anyone right now capable of filing the void should he depart.

Under different circumstances and if Tinordi, beaulieu, Ellis, Dietz or whomever else were ready to step in then I would say make the move because we are extremely thin on LWers but right now it makes no sense for MTL.

For one thing Subban won't get you Yakupov by himself. I think the sentiment of homerism in believing that is insane...and I love watching Subban play. But no way he is worth the top overall draft pick on his own.

So, yes, if it was even a remote possibility to do that deal straight up then you do it. I'm actually shocked anyone would want to do otherwise.

As for D depth...they simply clear some salary space and sign a top 4 dman...at worst they have a mediocre to average D for this season. The Habs D without Subban is terrible if Markov comes back...not a top 10 group but Gorges, Markov, Kaberle, Emelin, Bouillon, Diaz is going to give enough to be solid on the PP and on the PK most nights.

Frankly, I would then trade Gionta, Cole, Gomez (if you could), Bourque, Eller/DD (one, maybe both) and Kaberle at the trade deadline for mostly prospects, picks and expiring salaries. Rather then a bottom 10 finish you also now likely finish with another top 3 pick...

If they magically had both Galy and Yakupov already...I would say the Habs rebuild would be done given that they'd then have loads of cap room next off-season to sign 3-4 quality guys...money enough to sign say a top 4 d-man and among the best 2-3 wingers to add to those prospects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...