alfredoh2009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Ok, we will see in the next couple of games where they slot Domi To me he is being superseded at center by Suzuki and Drouin is a better winger than him Even Kovalchuk is a better winger than him right now Inrhink that Domi, like Mete, is being pushed down the lineup by better players this season Since the Habs need to be sellers in a year where the draft is deep: what is going to give? who can get us the highest return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 A deep draft still doesnt mean you trade proven scorers who are still young for a mystery box which has a high chance of not being as good as what you have. When you are talking an older player.. thats a different story entirely but with domi... his prime years are just starting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Commandant said: A deep draft still doesnt mean you trade proven scorers who are still young for a mystery box which has a high chance of not being as good as what you have. When you are talking an older player.. thats a different story entirely but with domi... his prime years are just starting Ok, so what do you suggest the Habs get to a cup contending level? Keeping Domi and Petry and Tatar will keep them at a stand still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Does Winnipeg still have their first? They are so desperate for DMen and given the ages of guys like Wheeler and the team friendly contract Scheifle is on, they may be willing to trade what may be a lottery pick and prospects for Weber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 10 hours ago, Commandant said: "We have Justin Pogge and Tuukka Rask, so we can afford to trade one of our goalies" - John Ferguson Jr in 2006. Poehling has 1 point in 24 games this year. He's young and might become a nice 3rd line centre... but using him as an excuse to trade Domi seems misguided to me. Again, I hope he becomes a nice third liner. He might also become Kyle Chipchura or Nate Thompson, we don't know yet. Domi is the one centre on the time who has actually put up a 70 point season. The fact that he is proven is why you keep him, unless that immediate benefit is another young proven player (not a draft pick or prospect). First off that trade was for Raycroft. Toronto was trying to win now and thought raycroft who just won rookie of the year was the better goaltender to go forward with. So its not like he just traded a goaltender because he had two. Think of that trade like the Subban/Weber trade. We traded the young player for an older player who Bergevin thought could help the team win more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Ok, we will see in the next couple of games where they slot Domi To me he is being superseded at center by Suzuki and Drouin is a better winger than him Suzuki may be better at C than Domi (thought still in his rookie season). But Suzuki is much better than Domi at W. So if only one of them is to play C, you get the better combination by playing Domi at C and Suzuki at W, since Suzuki can still be effective in either position, while Domi seems to struggle much more as a winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: Ok, so what do you suggest the Habs get to a cup contending level? Keeping Domi and Petry and Tatar will keep them at a stand still Theý are not the same. One is 24 One is 32 And one is 29. 1) Id explore trades for petry and tatar... but just like we did with Pacioretty... we have time on these. If someone offers a great package before the deadline.. trade one or both of them. If we dont get a great package. . Go into next season with them. 2) id spend real money (up to 2.5 mil) on a backup goalie this summer. Getting a proven player who can spell price for at least 30 games. With a backup we can rely on that will also give us better play from Price. Let Primeau play #1 minutes for laval next year. McNiven #2. Let lindgren and kinkaid go. 3) re-sign kovalchuk for another season. He can help the team.next season. 4) let suzuki, kotkaniemi, romanov, caufield, poehling, fleury, brook, etc... continue to develop. Not all of them will hit their potential but those that do will make the team better simply by their improvement. 5) move byron, likely in the summer when hes proven he can come back healthy and produce. 6) try to sign tory krug or other lhd in free agency. If you cant do this (and i get that signing ufas has been an issue) see if you can find another chiarot. 7) you also have 2nd tier prospects in Harris, Norlander, Fairbrother, le Guerrier, fonstad, evans, mcshane, struble, etc... be patient and let bouchard work his magic to turn some of these into nhl players (yes some will bust). 8 ) use excess cap.space if you cant get a ufa to do another armia/mason trade. You need to keep building. Not blow things up by moving 24 year olds... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 18 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: First off that trade was for Raycroft. Toronto was trying to win now and thought raycroft who just won rookie of the year was the better goaltender to go forward with. So its not like he just traded a goaltender because he had two. Think of that trade like the Subban/Weber trade. We traded the young player for an older player who Bergevin thought could help the team win more. The point still stands... you dont assume every prospect is going to work out so you can trade domi cause you have poehling. It also is even worse at c, where you can have one at wing and move to c when injuries hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Commandant said: 1) Id explore trades for petry and tatar... but just like we did with Pacioretty... we have time on these. If someone offers a great package before the deadline.. trade one or both of them. If we dont get a great package. . Go into next season with them. Ok, what is a great package for these two? I have suggested a contract to offset the salary on the other team’s roster + 1st 2020 + 2nd 2020 plus a prospect who does not have a year of professional hockey yet (22 year old and younger) so as not risking loosing in expansion draft (yes, I know I stress about this) what would be a great package in your view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Suzuki may be better at C than Domi (thought still in his rookie season). But Suzuki is much better than Domi at W. So if only one of them is to play C, you get the better combination by playing Domi at C and Suzuki at W, since Suzuki can still be effective in either position, while Domi seems to struggle much more as a winger. Why would the Habs handicap Suzuki? We have not yet seen how good he can be at C and the Habs have starved for this type of talent down the middle to me, Domi was a good « patch » at C. The experiment is done, time to move to a better use of talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 For petry id want a 2nd and a prospect who would slide in as our 3rd best prospect behind caufield and romanov. Or A 1st and two really good prospects like LA got for muzzin. Or A young nhl ready lhd who has potential to grow. For tatar it would be a similar ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Damphousse wasnt handicapped at centre by starting his career on wing. Neither was messier, or muller, or in more recent times, stamkos, malkin, or even more recently aho. And thats just off the top of my head. There are more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, Commandant said: The point still stands... you dont assume every prospect is going to work out so you can trade domi cause you have poehling. It also is even worse at c, where you can have one at wing and move to c when injuries hit. Gainey when gm of Dallas traded away a young prospects in the name of jarome iginla for a Proven NHL forward in Joe Nieuwendyk and that helped them win a cup. As a gm you have to take gambles when it comes to trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said: Gainey when gm of Dallas traded away a young prospects in the name of jarome iginla for a Proven NHL forward in Joe Nieuwendyk and that helped them win a cup. As a gm you have to take gambles when it comes to trade. If we were one player away from winning a cup, wed be having a different discussion. But we arent. So hoard young talent and build a team knowing that not every youngster will develop so you build your team by having many options at each position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, Commandant said: If we were one player away from winning a cup, wed be having a different discussion. But we arent. So hoard young talent and build a team knowing that not every youngster will develop so you build your team by having many options at each position Ok so you think we're not close to winning a cup, and you want young talent but yet you don't want to go through the pains of losing and becoming a lottery pick team to get that top talent you talk about. And your ok with being a bubble team, makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: Does Winnipeg still have their first? They are so desperate for DMen and given the ages of guys like Wheeler and the team friendly contract Scheifle is on, they may be willing to trade what may be a lottery pick and prospects for Weber. They do but they're kind of stuck at the moment with the Byfuglien situation. That's going to arbitration and if it's deemed that they didn't have the right to suspend him without pay, they're not going to have the cap space to bring anyone in (since he's expected to return this season which takes LTIR space out of the equation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 50 minutes ago, Commandant said: Damphousse wasnt handicapped at centre by starting his career on wing. Neither was messier, or muller, or in more recent times, stamkos, malkin, or even more recently aho. And thats just off the top of my head. There are more. But we stupidly traded Turgeon because Tremblay wanted Damphousse at centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 40 minutes ago, dlbalr said: They do but they're kind of stuck at the moment with the Byfuglien situation. That's going to arbitration and if it's deemed that they didn't have the right to suspend him without pay, they're not going to have the cap space to bring anyone in (since he's expected to return this season which takes LTIR space out of the equation). We could always take a contract back that has less than two years and try and get Ehlers and the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Theý are not the same. One is 24 One is 32 And one is 29. 1) Id explore trades for petry and tatar... but just like we did with Pacioretty... we have time on these. If someone offers a great package before the deadline.. trade one or both of them. If we dont get a great package. . Go into next season with them. 2) id spend real money (up to 2.5 mil) on a backup goalie this summer. Getting a proven player who can spell price for at least 30 games. With a backup we can rely on that will also give us better play from Price. Let Primeau play #1 minutes for laval next year. McNiven #2. Let lindgren and kinkaid go. 3) re-sign kovalchuk for another season. He can help the team.next season. 4) let suzuki, kotkaniemi, romanov, caufield, poehling, fleury, brook, etc... continue to develop. Not all of them will hit their potential but those that do will make the team better simply by their improvement. 5) move byron, likely in the summer when hes proven he can come back healthy and produce. 6) try to sign tory krug or other lhd in free agency. If you cant do this (and i get that signing ufas has been an issue) see if you can find another chiarot. 7) you also have 2nd tier prospects in Harris, Norlander, Fairbrother, le Guerrier, fonstad, evans, mcshane, struble, etc... be patient and let bouchard work his magic to turn some of these into nhl players (yes some will bust). 8 ) use excess cap.space if you cant get a ufa to do another armia/mason trade. You need to keep building. Not blow things up by moving 24 year olds... Great plan, probably better than whatever the hell Bergevin is cooking up. One problem is the idea of keeping Petry into the season. Let's say that by some miracle we do manage to sign Krug. (It won't happen, but let's just be positive for a second). A healthy team plus Krug will definitely be pushing hard at the playoff bar, probably crossing that bar in fact. Trading Petry under those circumstances would be extremely fraught, because in the absence of a comparable replacement it would basically blow up the team's shot at returning to playoff standing. Therefore, I suspect we need to trade Petry over the summer. Once the season starts, he becomes indispensable. (This is not so true of Tatar). But basically, this is a great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Great plan, probably better than whatever the hell Bergevin is cooking up. One problem is the idea of keeping Petry into the season. Let's say that by some miracle we do manage to sign Krug. (It won't happen, but let's just be positive for a second). A healthy team plus Krug will definitely be pushing hard at the playoff bar, probably crossing that bar in fact. Trading Petry under those circumstances would be extremely fraught, because in the absence of a comparable replacement it would basically blow up the team's shot at returning to playoff standing. Therefore, I suspect we need to trade Petry over the summer. Once the season starts, he becomes indispensable. (This is not so true of Tatar). But basically, this is a great post. Id definetely explore trading them at the draft as well as all summer long like we did with pacioretty but again the package has to be good. If we take them into the season and we are a bubble team at the deadline... trade them. Just like st. Louis as a bubble team traded shattenkirk. If we are exceeding all expectations and absolutely everything is going right... ie krug (or another acquisition) solidifies the lhd. Price on the reduced schedule is back to vezina form. Drouin is playing like he did at the start of this season. Kk and suzuki take big leaps in development. Domi is back to last years form.. Weber looks great with a puck moving partner ... basically in a best case scenario... and we are a cup contender... then thats yhe only way i keep him at next deadline. Yes, all of this going right at once is highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Commandant said: Id definetely explore trading them at the draft as well as all summer long like we did with pacioretty but again the package has to be good. If we take them into the season and we are a bubble team at the deadline... trade them. Just like st. Louis as a bubble team traded shattenkirk. If we are exceeding all expectations and absolutely everything is going right... ie krug (or another acquisition) solidifies the lhd. Price on the reduced schedule is back to vezina form. Drouin is playing like he did at the start of this season. Kk and suzuki take big leaps in development. Domi is back to last years form.. Weber looks great with a puck moving partner ... basically in a best case scenario... and we are a cup contender... then thats yhe only way i keep him at next deadline. Yes, all of this going right at once is highly unlikely. Also a good plan. I think what I'm saying is just that Bergevin will not trade Petry next February if the team is in a playoff spot. You would, but he won't. Therefore, it's trade him now or in the summer, or not at all. (Unless, of course, the Habs continue to tread water next year, in which case of course he'll be traded). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Could we trade Tatar to the Stars at deadline for a couple of defensive prospects, or a prospect and a pick? Dallas is quite deep on D but needs some scoring. And with our D strengthened, look for the right deal for Petry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 23 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Could we trade Tatar to the Stars at deadline for a couple of defensive prospects, or a prospect and a pick? Dallas is quite deep on D but needs some scoring. And with our D strengthened, look for the right deal for Petry? I think Bergevin needs to make a decision on where to go next year first. If he thinks this is a playoff team, then i don't see him trading anyone that's under contract still. If he feels that we continue to stay young , then yeah you trade guys like Tatar, Petry and listen to what's out there for price and weber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 We are not going to be challenging for the cup next year, no matter which path we choose. Both Petry and Tatar will be UFAs at the end of next year, and as we're unlikely to be able to extend them (I expect we'll want to resign Gallagher, Danault and Armia, plus Kotkaniemi and Lehkonen as RFAs) the time to trade them is either now, or in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Commandant said: For petry id want a 2nd and a prospect who would slide in as our 3rd best prospect behind caufield and romanov. Or A 1st and two really good prospects like LA got for muzzin. Or A young nhl ready lhd who has potential to grow. For tatar it would be a similar ask I was off over evaluating Petry thinking we could a first a second and a prospect I really wish they could send him to Pittsburg for P-O Joseph their 1st and one of their goalies (DeSmith?) I would package Petry to make it work. DeSmith would fit well as backup for the CH (he has done it before) and Olivier is a solid prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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