Jump to content

Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I'll add that it is dependant on Killorn waiving his NTC, but that would be my trade proposal

True ... but Brisebois has allegedly been working on clearing cap space since the buzzer went on the Cup Final (figuratively, not literally) and apparently the only player on the roster who gave him a limited waiver of his NMC/NTC was Johnson ... so I am guessing that none of the other players with trade protection want to leave TBL.

 

But sincerely, appreciate the trade suggestions ... it is one of my favourite pastimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

One last trade proposal:

To Montreal Mathieu Perreault ($4.1M x1) and Nelson Nogier (RFA)

To Winnipeg: Paul Byron (3.4M x2) Jordan Weal ($1.4M x1)  and Gustav Olofson

 

Winnipeg gets cap space to sign Roslovic whoever and a depth LD with NHL experience

Montreal gets a bottom 6 winger and a depth RD

I don’t get why Winnipeg would do either of these deals - edited or previous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t get why Winnipeg would do either of these deals - edited or previous.

 

Perrault is too expensive for a 4th liner, and WPG is at the cap limit. They do not have room to improve the team during the season or at the trade deadline.

 

Also, their defense is thin and will be in trouble if they get injuries, specially on LD where they have Morrissey, Beaulieu, Forbort and Sbisa. I don't think those are elite by any means.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Perrault is too expensive for a 4th liner, and WPG is at the cap limit. They do not have room to improve the team during the season or at the trade deadline.

 

Also, their defense is thin and will be in trouble if they get injuries, specially on LD where they have Morrissey, Beaulieu, Forbort and Sbisa. I don't think those are elite by any means.

Not certain that Olofson is that much of an upgrade on Nogier ... Gustav's 59 games over 4 NHL seasons is technically experience but not IMO useful or in any way impressive ... but Jets do save $$$ so I could see them doing it ... but not certain what Habs get ... Is Nogier better than Fleury, Juulsen, Brook or Mete as a Right-side D prospect?  ... Perrault is the kind of contract a team should be paid to take ... 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Winnipeg would do this in a heartbeat but it would be a disaster for mtl to pay that for Perrault. If it were Perrault and a pick coming with 1/2 salary retention then I could see it maybe but I don’t think even then it would be a good move

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PMAC said:

I think Winnipeg would do this in a heartbeat but it would be a disaster for mtl to pay that for Perrault. If it were Perrault and a pick coming with 1/2 salary retention then I could see it maybe but I don’t think even then it would be a good move

 

It doesn't make any sense now with the moves that were made since then.  The idea was if they struck out on adding any more players and if Winnipeg needed to cut salary, that would be a way to improve on the cheap.  It'd be off the table now though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

It doesn't make any sense now with the moves that were made since then.  The idea was if they struck out on adding any more players and if Winnipeg needed to cut salary, that would be a way to improve on the cheap.  It'd be off the table now though.

Agreed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is an idea for a trade:

To Montreal Anthony Mantha (RFA, $3.3M-$3.6M)

To Detroit: Joel Armia ($2.6M) & Victor Mete ($735K), and maybe a 2021 draft pick

 

Detroit gets what some consider a 25g RW at a lower price and an NHL mobile defenseman for a bit less than Mantha. An upgrade to two position for the price of one player

Montreal gets a left-shooting winger, local francophone, top 9 player.

 

It does not improve the cap situation for Montreal, but it helps balance the top 3 lines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Here is an idea for a trade:

To Montreal Anthony Mantha (RFA, $3.3M-$3.6M)

To Detroit: Joel Armia ($2.6M) & Victor Mete ($735K), and maybe a 2021 draft pick

 

Detroit gets what some consider a 25g RW at a lower price and an NHL mobile defenseman for a bit less than Mantha. An upgrade to two position for the price of one player

Montreal gets a left-shooting winger, local francophone, top 9 player.

 

It does not improve the cap situation for Montreal, but it helps balance the top 3 lines.

I'll stick my chin out

 

Mantha is an established top 6 forward (26g/82gms) ... Armia is a reasonable inclusion but don't think Mete and a 2021 pick (unless it is the 1st rounder) gets it done

 

But why not go big and address the cap as well (Wings have space) and try...

 

To Montreal: Mantha and 2021 2nd

To Detroit: Armia, Byron, Weal, Poehling and a 2021 1st

 

Armia and Poehling are longer-term value for Wings, Byron could short-term value as a veteran leader (Wings lose 5 of their 7 players age 30 and over after this coming season) and the 1st is a 1st ( of course WE know it will be 31st overall 😉 ) ... Weal is a dump

 

Net $4-ish million gain in cap space for the Habs (allowing a generous [?] $4M-ish for Mantha) ... leaves space to go after some veteran 4th liners still riding the UFA carousel ... MB is working to save his job (IMO), so the on-ice vision is 20/21, not development.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Here is an idea for a trade:

To Montreal Anthony Mantha (RFA, $3.3M-$3.6M)

To Detroit: Joel Armia ($2.6M) & Victor Mete ($735K), and maybe a 2021 draft pick

 

I think your projected price tag for Mantha is way low.  If they're prepared to sign him long-term, it's going to start with a 5 or a 6.  (He was qualified at $3.3M and would jump into the 4's on a one-year arbitration award.)  You can make a case that he's a front-line winger; the cost to get him will be much more painful than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Here is an idea for a trade:

To Montreal Anthony Mantha (RFA, $3.3M-$3.6M)

To Detroit: Joel Armia ($2.6M) & Victor Mete ($735K), and maybe a 2021 draft pick

 

Detroit gets what some consider a 25g RW at a lower price and an NHL mobile defenseman for a bit less than Mantha. An upgrade to two position for the price of one player

Montreal gets a left-shooting winger, local francophone, top 9 player.

 

It does not improve the cap situation for Montreal, but it helps balance the top 3 lines.

 

Detroit laughs and hangs up the phone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any proposal which expects to get back a top-6 FW or top-4 D-man for an aggregation of bottom-6/bottom-pairing pieces is simply not realistic. Unless the other GM is named Milbury or Houle, spare parts don't bring back core players, no matter how many spare parts you throw onto the pile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Here is an idea for a trade:

To Montreal Anthony Mantha (RFA, $3.3M-$3.6M)

To Detroit: Joel Armia ($2.6M) & Victor Mete ($735K), and maybe a 2021 draft pick

 

Detroit gets what some consider a 25g RW at a lower price and an NHL mobile defenseman for a bit less than Mantha. An upgrade to two position for the price of one player

Montreal gets a left-shooting winger, local francophone, top 9 player.

 

It does not improve the cap situation for Montreal, but it helps balance the top 3 lines.

 

Who is the 25G RW you are talking about?  The most Armia has ever had in the NHL is 16 so there must be somebody else you are not mentioning. There would have to be something else thrown in to make this attractive for Detroit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Any proposal which expects to get back a top-6 FW or top-4 D-man for an aggregation of bottom-6/bottom-pairing pieces is simply not realistic. Unless the other GM is named Milbury or Houle, spare parts don't bring back core players, no matter how many spare parts you throw onto the pile.

 

Agreed, I think it was Sam Pollock who said that whoever gets the best player in the deal wins. I think that it is compounded when the best player is a guy like Mantha who just turned 26 and is entering his prime years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Who is the 25G RW you are talking about?  The most Armia has ever had in the NHL is 16 so there must be somebody else you are not mentioning. There would have to be something else thrown in to make this attractive for Detroit. 


Sir_ Boggalot (?) has been saying this on another thread

if he is right , this trade makes sense

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Sir_ Boggalot (?) has been saying this on another thread

if he is right , this trade makes sense

 

Armia's career high in goals is 16, scored in 58 games.  Extrapolate that to an 82-game season and you get 22.62 - round that up to 23 and it's close to 25.  I wouldn't call him a 25-goal guy but I think that's the math being used.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Armia's career high in goals is 16, scored in 58 games.  Extrapolate that to an 82-game season and you get 22.62 - round that up to 23 and it's close to 25.  I wouldn't call him a 25-goal guy but I think that's the math being used.

 

With a lot of extrapolation and rounding you can make a case for just about anything. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/17/2020 at 1:00 PM, alfredoh2009 said:

Here is an idea for a trade:

To Montreal Anthony Mantha (RFA, $3.3M-$3.6M)

To Detroit: Joel Armia ($2.6M) & Victor Mete ($735K), and maybe a 2021 draft pick

 

Detroit gets what some consider a 25g RW at a lower price and an NHL mobile defenseman for a bit less than Mantha. An upgrade to two position for the price of one player

Montreal gets a left-shooting winger, local francophone, top 9 player.

 

It does not improve the cap situation for Montreal, but it helps balance the top 3 lines.

 

Well i'll give you credit, if you were an NHL GM, you would never get fleeced on a trade, however...

 

 

You would never get a deal done either, because you are always trying to fleece the other guys by offering up your 2nd rate product for their 1st rate product, this proposal is way off the mark for Detroit, even more so considering an intelligent GM like Yzerman is steering that ship.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I guess I have to reply.

12 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Who is the 25G RW you are talking about?  The most Armia has ever had in the NHL is 16 so there must be somebody else you are not mentioning. There would have to be something else thrown in to make this attractive for Detroit. 

 

10 hours ago, dlbalr said:

Armia's career high in goals is 16, scored in 58 games.  Extrapolate that to an 82-game season and you get 22.62 - round that up to 23 and it's close to 25.  I wouldn't call him a 25-goal guy but I think that's the math being used.

 

I was going with that extrapolation, and not squinting my eyes to make it fit. It is hard to put together a trade for a LW 3rd liner because Montreal would not want to touch its top-9 forwards or the top-4 defensemen

Also, trading bottom line/pair players will not lower the salary cap sufficiently.

 

TO keep withthe trade proposal, sending Armia and Mete and waiving Romanov to be cap compliant. I would add Struble  and also take the "maybe" from the offer of a 2021 (2nd round) draft pick.

That would give Detroit two NHL ready Ds, one solid prospect and a decent 2021 draft pick. It may still be too little for Mantha, but that is as high as I would go.

 

1 hour ago, Link67 said:

Well i'll give you credit, if you were an NHL GM, you would never get fleeced on a trade, however...

 

You would never get a deal done either, because you are always trying to fleece the other guys by offering up your 2nd rate product for their 1st rate product, this proposal is way off the mark for Detroit, even more so considering an intelligent GM like Yzerman is steering that ship.

 

Not trying to Fleece, I think Mantha has played top line wing because Detroit is such a dissater of a team. He is more of a middle-6 winger to my armchair GM eyes. Armia has some potential to score as much; althought Armia seems to be hurt more often than Mantha:

2017-03-30     Red Wings         • Anthony Mantha     fractured finger (out for season)

2017-12-29     Red Wings         • Anthony Mantha     undisclosed / groin injury (DTD)

2019-11-24     Red Wings         • Anthony Mantha     knee injury (DTD)

 

2016-03-08     Jets         • Joel Armia     lower body injury (DTD)
2016-11-04     Jets         • Joel Armia     lower body injury (DTD)
2017-10-27     Jets         • Joel Armia     undisclosed (DTD)
2018-04-27     Jets         • Joel Armia     upper body injury (DTD)
2018-11-08     Canadiens         • Joel Armia     knee injury (DTD)
2019-10-19     Canadiens         • Joel Armia     lower body injury (DTD)
 

13 hours ago, Commandant said:

Detroit laughs and hangs up the phone.

 

Yeah, you are probably right. But I woul dnot trade too much for Mantha. just what I added on this repply: Armia, Mete, plus Struble and a 2nd in 2021

 

On 10/17/2020 at 2:11 PM, GHT120 said:

I'll stick my chin out

 

Mantha is an established top 6 forward (26g/82gms) ... Armia is a reasonable inclusion but don't think Mete and a 2021 pick (unless it is the 1st rounder) gets it done

 

But why not go big and address the cap as well (Wings have space) and try...

 

To Montreal: Mantha and 2021 2nd

To Detroit: Armia, Byron, Weal, Poehling and a 2021 1st

 

Armia and Poehling are longer-term value for Wings, Byron could short-term value as a veteran leader (Wings lose 5 of their 7 players age 30 and over after this coming season) and the 1st is a 1st ( of course WE know it will be 31st overall 😉 ) ... Weal is a dump

 

Net $4-ish million gain in cap space for the Habs (allowing a generous [?] $4M-ish for Mantha) ... leaves space to go after some veteran 4th liners still riding the UFA carousel ... MB is working to save his job (IMO), so the on-ice vision is 20/21, not development.

 

I do not think Detroit would want Weal and Byron. Poehling maybe since he has become expendable now that the Habs have signed Anderson and Toffoli.

 

I would combine what youpropose and what I changed in this replyt, to become:

Mantha for Armia, Poehling (isntead of Mete), Struble and a 2nd in 2021.

 

I think the Red Wings need defensemen more than forwards but Poehling has a higher pedigree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I was going with that extrapolation, and not squinting my eyes to make it fit. It is hard to put together a trade for a LW 3rd liner because Montreal would not want to touch its top-9 forwards or the top-4 defensemen

Also, trading bottom line/pair players will not lower the salary cap sufficiently.

 

TO keep withthe trade proposal, sending Armia and Mete and waiving Romanov to be cap compliant. I would add Struble  and also take the "maybe" from the offer of a 2021 (2nd round) draft pick.

That would give Detroit two NHL ready Ds, one solid prospect and a decent 2021 draft pick. It may still be too little for Mantha, but that is as high as I would go.

 

Mantha's not a third-line player though.  He's a second-liner at worst and he'd play in Montreal's top six easily as he'd go ahead of Drouin in a heartbeat.  I think Detroit's asking price would involve Caufield and you'd probably have to include Byron and Armia in there as you initially did to simply offset enough money ($6.2M) to be able to sign Mantha and add a replacement for the league minimum since you're trading two forwards and only bringing one back.  Considering Byron's a negative-value contract at the moment, there's probably another sweetener that would be required as well.  That's what it'd take to get him in terms of trying to satisfy Detroit's asking price in terms of value and remaining cap-neutral. 

 

Armia and Mete aren't enough alone as he's not signing for just above his qualifying offer like you seem to think he will.  Struble's a wild card (there's upside but he's a long way away from being pro-ready) and a second-round pick isn't going to move the needle much.  Mantha is a core player - Detroit is going to want a core player in return, not some depth pieces and a flyer on a defence prospect that's 3+ years away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

Mantha's not a third-line player though.  He's a second-liner at worst and he'd play in Montreal's top six easily as he'd go ahead of Drouin in a heartbeat.  I think Detroit's asking price would involve Caufield and you'd probably have to include Byron and Armia in there as you initially did to simply offset enough money ($6.2M) to be able to sign Mantha and add a replacement for the league minimum since you're trading two forwards and only bringing one back.  Considering Byron's a negative-value contract at the moment, there's probably another sweetener that would be required as well.  That's what it'd take to get him in terms of trying to satisfy Detroit's asking price in terms of value and remaining cap-neutral. 

 

Armia and Mete aren't enough alone as he's not signing for just above his qualifying offer like you seem to think he will.  Struble's a wild card (there's upside but he's a long way away from being pro-ready) and a second-round pick isn't going to move the needle much.  Mantha is a core player - Detroit is going to want a core player in return, not some depth pieces and a flyer on a defence prospect that's 3+ years away.

 

You are right, I know. Based on the feedback, I was looking at this list:
image.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... I do not think Detroit would want Weal and Byron. Poehling maybe since he has become expendable now that the Habs have signed Anderson and Toffoli ...

I was't suggesting they move in a "hockey trade" (although Byron has hockey value, just not cap value) but that if MB were able to make a mantha trade look to add on the get the Wings to take Byron and Weal ... absent a Mantha deal the Wings could still be a destination for Byron and Weal to move cap ... question would be at what cost.

 

I really see no role for Weal ... I would hope (if Jordan isn't moved) that MB would explore is a more useful 4th liner could be signed for the $1.075 of Weals's cap hit that can be buried in the AHL (or less ideally). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was looking at teams _WITH_ some cap space that could take on one of the Hab's Contracts, and found a potential fit with MIN:

To Minnesota:

Armia($2.6M) and Poehling($925k)

To Montreal:

Joel Eriksson Ekk($1.5M)  and of of the two MIN 2021-1st round picks

 

It gives MTL cap relief and a 1st round pick next year while also getting an experienced center

It gives MIN a local player in Poehling that may fill the lack of success Eriksson Ekk had.  It also gives them a solid RW in Arma.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...