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Middle school humor meant for small minds. Maybe you ought to write fart jokes on your own time instead of burping up your daily dose of baloney on here?   "Duhhhh...faith in Bergevin...duhh

2009-2010 82 games/54 points 2010-2011 79/67 2011-2012 82/81 2012-2013 48/47 2013-2014 59/66 2014-2015 82/86 2015-2016 78/70 2016-2017 77/66   I said:

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7 hours ago, Commandant said:

Joel eriksom ek is slated to be a top 6 centre for the wild next year.  They arent trading him

I know he is slotted there, but he is also deemed close to a bust on some site (The Athletic Minnesota writer)

They are un rebuild mode and Poehling may entice them 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I dont see them downgrading from erikson-ek to poehling

 

They need centre help and they need players who can score in those spots.

Armia would provide the same level of scoring in the short term and Poehling has as much upside 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Armia would provide the same level of scoring in the short term and Poehling has as much upside 

 

Erikson-ek has more upside than poehling and Armia is a winger.  Thats not their need

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Erikson-Ek had 29 points in 62 games... with third line minutes and no PP time... thats nearly a 40 point pace... in his second season.  Hes never gonna be a star but 2nd line centre potential is there.

 

Poehling had 2 points in 20 someodd games.

 

Its a big down grade.

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12 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I was looking at teams _WITH_ some cap space that could take on one of the Hab's Contracts, and found a potential fit with MIN:

To Minnesota:

Armia($2.6M) and Poehling($925k)

To Montreal:Joel Eriksson Ekk($1.5M)  and of of the two MIN 2021-1st round picks

 

It gives MTL cap relief and a 1st round pick next year while also getting an experienced center

It gives MIN a local player in Poehling that may fill the lack of success Eriksson Ekk had.  It also gives them a solid RW in Arma.

 

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

I dont see them downgrading from erikson-ek to poehling

 

They need centre help and they need players who can score in those spots.

 

Even if the Wild would let Eriksson Ekk go (admittedly, 9g and 16 pts per 82 games over 3.2 seasons is not encouraging), what I find stranger is the idea that the Wild would include a 2021 first rounder.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

 

Even if the Wild would let Eriksson Ekk go (admittedly, 9g and 16 pts per 82 games over 3.2 seasons is not encouraging), what I find stranger is the idea that the Wild would include a 2021 first rounder.

From the Wild analysts I was reading, Armia for Ericsson Ekk straight would have been sufficient 

 

Poehling for the first was my extra reach, I may co aider throwing in one of the Habs LD prospects (but we do not have that many) either Mete or Struble but did t include them from the start because the Habs would be helping the Wild get rid of a bust draft pick

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2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... because the Habs would be helping the Wild get rid of a bust draft pick

 

Even if Eriksson Ekk is a bust, so to ***may*** be Poehling ... only time will tell, but JEE's partial first season at 20 was better than Poehling's at 21 ... I toss that Leafs game out the window in terms of evaluating Poehling ... he may well have just had "one of those nights" on an adrenaline high against a team for whom the game meant nothing

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Ok, here is further data:

5 hours ago, Commandant said:

Erikson-Ek had 29 points in 62 games... with third line minutes and no PP time... thats nearly a 40 point pace... in his second season.  Hes never gonna be a star but 2nd line centre potential is there.

 

Poehling had 2 points in 20 someodd games.

 

Its a big down grade.

 

In Michael Russo's october 12 article (https://athletique.com/2133384/?source=player) "Bill Guerin’s plan to rebuild the Wild: ‘We can’t live in the past’" he reports that :

"Unless your name is Kevin Fiala or Kirill Kaprizov, or you’re a player that controls his own destiny like Zach Parise or Ryan Suter, or you arguably have an immovable contract like Mats Zuccarello or Victor Rask, nobody on the Wild roster can feel safe at this juncture."

[...]

"The players entering the final year of their deals include Fiala, Kaprizov, Joel Eriksson Ek and Ryan Hartman [...] Eriksson Ek, 23, is developing into a strong defensive center. But it’s hard to even say Eriksson Ek’s guaranteed to stick around indefinitely because Guerin has fended off lots of trade calls on him the past 14 months."

[...]

"The Wild have $2.7 million in cap space left, but that chunk will likely go to Rossi [...] Barring trades, there’s no room for the Wild to add players [...] with the exception of still adding one depth defenseman to play largely in Iowa."

===

then he suggest the following lines:

Kaprizov-Johansson-Fiala

Parise-Eriksson-Ekk-Zucarello

Greenway-Bonino-Bjugstad

Foligno-Rask-Hartman

 

My suggested trade would change the lineup, giving the waive-exempt prospects time to develop in Iowa:

Parise-Johansson-Fiala

Zucarello-Bonino-Armia

Greenway-*Poehling-Bjugstad

Foligno-Rask-Hartman

Strum

(Kaprizov in AHL, Rossi in OHL, *Poehling could also be sent down)

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Even if Eriksson Ekk is a bust, so to ***may*** be Poehling ... only time will tell, but JEE's partial first season at 20 was better than Poehling's at 21 ... I toss that Leafs game out the window in terms of evaluating Poehling ... he may well have just had "one of those nights" on an adrenaline high against a team for whom the game meant nothing

 

Poehling is from  Lakeville, Minnesota. It should give him an extra-boost and may become a fan darling. Tyhe Wild needs feel good stories. If needed, I would add Mete or Struble if that is the cost of getting some cap space and adding an experienced center for the bottom 6 (yes, bottom 6 in case KK falters or the Habs have injuries at center)

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Ok, here is further data:

 

In Michael Russo's october 12 article (https://athletique.com/2133384/?source=player) "Bill Guerin’s plan to rebuild the Wild: ‘We can’t live in the past’" he reports that :

"Unless your name is Kevin Fiala or Kirill Kaprizov, or you’re a player that controls his own destiny like Zach Parise or Ryan Suter, or you arguably have an immovable contract like Mats Zuccarello or Victor Rask, nobody on the Wild roster can feel safe at this juncture."

[...]

"The players entering the final year of their deals include Fiala, Kaprizov, Joel Eriksson Ek and Ryan Hartman [...] Eriksson Ek, 23, is developing into a strong defensive center. But it’s hard to even say Eriksson Ek’s guaranteed to stick around indefinitely because Guerin has fended off lots of trade calls on him the past 14 months."

[...]

"The Wild have $2.7 million in cap space left, but that chunk will likely go to Rossi [...] Barring trades, there’s no room for the Wild to add players [...] with the exception of still adding one depth defenseman to play largely in Iowa."

===

then he suggest the following lines:

Kaprizov-Johansson-Fiala

Parise-Eriksson-Ekk-Zucarello

Greenway-Bonino-Bjugstad

Foligno-Rask-Hartman

 

My suggested trade would change the lineup, giving the waive-exempt prospects time to develop in Iowa:

Parise-Johansson-Fiala

Zucarello-Bonino-Armia

Greenway-*Poehling-Bjugstad

Foligno-Rask-Hartman

Strum

(Kaprizov in AHL, Rossi in OHL, *Poehling could also be sent down)

 

Poehling is from  Lakeville, Minnesota. It should give him an extra-boost and may become a fan darling. Tyhe Wild needs feel good stories. If needed, I would add Mete or Struble if that is the cost of getting some cap space and adding an experienced center for the bottom 6 (yes, bottom 6 in case KK falters or the Habs have injuries at center)

 

 

 

 

Johansson was really bad as a center in buffalo last year and bonino hasnt been great in several years.

 

What we see here is the worst group of centres in the entire NHL.

 

And outside of Centre  . Minnesota isn't a bad team.

 

So im not sure why they would have any interest in making the worst group of centres in the entire league worse by downgrading JEE to Poehling... even if it gets them another winger.  Makes no sense to me.

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33 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... Poehling is from  Lakeville, Minnesota. It should give him an extra-boost and may become a fan darling ...

 

Change should to could and I can agree ... 

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Pretty sure Minnesota is rebuilding/retooling. Guerin's plan this summer has been to upend the "country club" culture in the locker room, but I'm pretty sure he just wants the team to try really hard while they lose a lot. Cam Talbot as the #1 goalie? Top centreman Nick Bonino? Almost traded Parise for Ladd...

 

They aren't burning everything to the ground, but I'm definitely not seeing a playoff push there.

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  • 1 month later...

With all the recent trades and signings the Habs have made, I am at a point where the way I thought of trades (how ever imperfect) to improve the team are to be thrown in the garbage.

 

Question to the forum: how do you improve a "play-off team" to make it a "cup contending team"?

1. Habs have prospect depth but no elite prospects

2. Habs have NHL roster depth but no elite forwards

3. Habs have no cap room

4. Habs have solid top 3 D but aging

5. Habs have a narrow "Stanley cup window"

 

My old tendency was to go for gradual improvements and to hope for progression from prospects. Now. trades may include core players and should improve the teams chances of winning a cup.

 

I look forward to reading your comments

 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

With all the recent trades and signings the Habs have made, I am at a point where the way I thought of trades (how ever imperfect) to improve the team are to be thrown in the garbage.

 

Question to the forum: how do you improve a "play-off team" to make it a "cup contending team"?

1. Habs have prospect depth but no elite prospects

2. Habs have NHL roster depth but no elite forwards

3. Habs have no cap room

4. Habs have solid top 3 D but aging

5. Habs have a narrow "Stanley cup window"

 

My old tendency was to go for gradual improvements and to hope for progression from prospects. Now. trades may include core players and should improve the teams chances of winning a cup.

 

I look forward to reading your comments

 

 

Totally agree with 1-5

ALL that follows is IMO and based on my expectations
 

I see potential for prospects to upgrade the defence in 2021/22 or 22/23 (some combination of Romanov, Norlinder, Harris, Struble, Brook, Juulsen ... did I miss anyone) but not certain the same is true of the forwards ... Caufield hopefully comes on board in 21/22, likely to take the place of Tartar, but I'm not certain he produces much more in his first couple of seasons ... until proven otherwise I don't expect Poehling to be more than maybe an elite 4C ... Tuch, Mysak, Ferrell, Ptlick, Hillis et al are even further away ... but I see the best window for Price, Petry and Weber to be 20/21, 21/22 and maybe 22/23 ... thus, I don't see the current prospects making significant impact up front in that timeline.

 

Habs are now a good enough team that they should be able to safely make the playoffs (i.e., not battle to the last game for the #8 spot) ... but I'm not certain it is realistic to expect them to do more than make the second round of the playoffs ... which will keep Bergevin safe, perhaps not Julien

 

Thus, as usual, despite the upgrades this offseason, the Habs Cup chances currently rest on Price ... and the team defence protecting Carey enough to allow him to work magic ... I hope/expect that Allen will give CP enough downtime to be at his best come the playoffs.

 

But unless Caufield and another forward or two become HOMERUNS, and more quickly that expected, the further evolution of the Habs towards legit Cup contention beyond the magic of The Amazing Carey depends entirely on the development of KK and Suzuki

 

Of course a couple of players could have insane playoffs and elevate the Habs in any given season, I am looking at what I see as reasonable to expect.

 

But TRADES to otherwise upgrade the Habs to legit Contender status will require tremendous creativity ... not certain I expect MB to able to pull off such deals for elite/elite-ish talents

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For KK and Suzuki to grow into those roles, Danault will be key

 

I guess packaging prospects with a few roster players will be the only way to upgrade the team

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I think we see how this new squad performs. We may already be a Stanley cup contender😇

 

my guess is that we drop Tatar next year and loose Allen to kraken. Caufield takes over for Tatar and we then have cap space and prospects available to deal if we need help on D

 

The Tatar-Allen scenario (with Caufield and Primeau stepping in) is pretty much what we would need next year. Gallagher's new contract kicks in, need to sign Kotkaniemi and possibly Danault and/or Armia. (Lehkonen and Mete/whoever should not cost a lot more than we are paying today.)

 

I'm not really clear on what Bergevin's plan is for Demchenko, though. Is he just insurance in case Primeau doesn't progress as expected? He'll be a UFA next year.

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Id say both Caufield and Romanov are elite level prospects.  If we are counting young players, both Suzuki and Kotkaniemi would be in that group too, while not prospects we are talking about 20 and 21 year olds. 

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3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

We do? We will? We should? We need to?

 

7 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Question to the forum: how do you improve a "play-off team" to make it a "cup contending team"?

 

5 hours ago, DON said:

Have an all-star forward or two on roster.

 

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OK, Don, sure. So we could do it by having McDavid and Crosby on the roster. I expect that we would indeed be a contender. Alas, it's not particularly realistic.

 

I think the question is not what you'd want the end state to be, but what would we actually need to do to get there.

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Thanks Tomh009, that is what I meant.

 

Commandant’s points about Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Romanov and Caufield being elite prospects.

 

I doubt we can count on them to be the make/break pillars of a cup run during the Price-Weber window.

 

... but maybe that is how I need to start seeing this team: not for short-term success 

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11 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

The Tatar-Allen scenario (with Caufield and Primeau stepping in) is pretty much what we would need next year. Gallagher's new contract kicks in, need to sign Kotkaniemi and possibly Danault and/or Armia. (Lehkonen and Mete/whoever should not cost a lot more than we are paying today.)

 

I'm not really clear on what Bergevin's plan is for Demchenko, though. Is he just insurance in case Primeau doesn't progress as expected? He'll be a UFA next year.

I would not be surprised if Demchenko backs up Price if Allen is taken by Kraken. Leaving primeau in Laval to fully mature for a couple more years

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