Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said:

What about Drouin + a pick (3rd at best) to Winnipeg for PLD.

 

PLD struggled with the jet so try to get him while his value is lower.  Fills a 2/3 line center for Montreal.  Winnipeg gets a winger with a couple years left on his deal for their top 6.  The pick with Drouin is only so there’s no salary retention.

I would make that trade 

 

I would prefer to pry away Pionk if possible, they have a salary cap crunch 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

What about Drouin + a pick (3rd at best) to Winnipeg for PLD.

 

PLD struggled with the jet so try to get him while his value is lower.  Fills a 2/3 line center for Montreal.  Winnipeg gets a winger with a couple years left on his deal for their top 6.  The pick with Drouin is only so there’s no salary retention.

 

MB wouldn't try to embarrass Cheveldalyoff by making an offer like that. Drouin has zero trade value.  Seattle could have had him for NOTHING.  No chance that happens.

[TurdBurglar]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

MB wouldn't try to embarrass Cheveldalyoff by making an offer like that. Drouin has zero trade value.  Seattle could have had him for NOTHING.  No chance that happens.

I wouldn’t say he has zero trade value. He is still over 0.5 PPG player, higher than PLD at any point during his NHL career.  Winnipeg was disappointed with PLD last season.  I don’t see it as an unfair trade.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

30 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I wouldn’t say he has zero trade value. He is still over 0.5 PPG player, higher than PLD at any point during his NHL career.  Winnipeg was disappointed with PLD last season.  I don’t see it as an unfair trade.

 

I did exaggerate a bit, it's not zero but given how last year ended his value is pretty low at 5.5 million/year.  PLD did score 27 goals and 61 points in 2018-19. I would say the potential for PLD to have a good career is far greater than Drouin.  From a Habs perspective I would love to make that trade but it's a dream. 

[dlbalr]

6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Ylonen and Poehling may not be enough. Would Mailloux be enough to tip NSH's hand?

 

Ylonen is stuck behind Caufield, Anderson, Toffoli and Gallagher and may not play in Montreal over the next 3-4 years

 

Poehling is still hit/miss, but would provide NSH some affordable depth at center

 

Mailloux may be a good add-in to Kulak on this trade, Fabbro is sloted on the 3rd pair right now.

 

Agreed that Ylonen and Poehling wouldn't be enough.  Mailloux is a tough one to trade for right now.  Looking aside from the obvious off-ice situation, he has hardly played against quality-level competition.  He needs to establish himself in the OHL before his value would be commensurate at a first-round level.

 

6 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

What about Drouin + a pick (3rd at best) to Winnipeg for PLD.

 

PLD struggled with the jet so try to get him while his value is lower.  Fills a 2/3 line center for Montreal.  Winnipeg gets a winger with a couple years left on his deal for their top 6.  The pick with Drouin is only so there’s no salary retention.

 

Why wouldn't Winnipeg just keep him over trading him for that package (which really isn't worth much of anything) and adding salary?  The same issue exists for Winnipeg as it did for Columbus at the time - they'd need a centre in the return.  The Habs won't move Suzuki and Kotkaniemi won't get it done.

[TurdBurglar]

36 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Why wouldn't Winnipeg just keep him over trading him for that package (which really isn't worth much of anything) and adding salary?  The same issue exists for Winnipeg as it did for Columbus at the time - they'd need a centre in the return.  The Habs won't move Suzuki and Kotkaniemi won't get it done.

Why would Winnipeg want a center in return?  They have Scheifele and Stastny as their 1/2, PLD pushed neither of those 2 out of the top 2 center position.  They were playing PLD on the wing to keep him in their top-6 last season. 

 

This proposal would give them a true winger with a currently higher point production.  The next season cap hit is only 500k higher, but Drouin has 2 years @ $5.5m, PLD needs another contract after next season, which is $5m for next season.

[dlbalr]

13 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Why would Winnipeg want a center in return?  They have Scheifele and Stastny as their 1/2, PLD pushed neither of those 2 out of the top 2 center position.  They were playing PLD on the wing to keep him in their top-6 last season. 

 

This proposal would give them a true winger with a currently higher point production.  The next season cap hit is only 500k higher, but Drouin has 2 years @ $5.5m, PLD needs another contract after next season, which is $5m for next season.

 

Stastny is 35, on a one-year deal, and his days of being a top-six guy are fading fast.  Bryan Little isn't returning.  Behind Scheifele and Stastny, they have Andrew Copp and Adam Lowry, neither of which are ideal top-six pieces long-term.  There's a reason that they emphasized acquiring a centre for Laine.  If they were moving him, they badly needed a quality centre in return.  That hasn't changed now.  If they don't get a controllable top-six centre, they're not moving Dubois.

 

As for their cap situation, it may 'only' be $500K but they're already extremely tight to the cap and may have to shed money just to re-sign Copp and Pionk.  They're planning to run with Eric Comrie as a backup, a guy who has bounced around on waivers and hardly played the last two years, just because he'd take the minimum.  They can't afford to add any money, especially not for someone who is a negative-value contract in Drouin.  (And with everything that has transpired, he's 100% a negative-value contract; if the Habs offered him for free, Winnipeg wouldn't take him.)

 

Kevin Cheveldayoff would be run out of town if he even considered a trade centred around Dubois and Drouin.  I know Dubois had a rough year but his value is way, way higher than Drouin.

[GHT120]

14 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Why would Winnipeg want a center in return?  They have Scheifele and Stastny as their 1/2, PLD pushed neither of those 2 out of the top 2 center position.  They were playing PLD on the wing to keep him in their top-6 last season. 

 

This proposal would give them a true winger with a currently higher point production.  The next season cap hit is only 500k higher, but Drouin has 2 years @ $5.5m, PLD needs another contract after next season, which is $5m for next season.

Stastny is a pending UFA who turns 36 in December ... that PLD didn't push Paul out of the top 6 is a negative for the youngster, not in any way a positive reflection on Stastny ... 

[Habsfan89]

8 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

What about Drouin + a pick (3rd at best) to Winnipeg for PLD.

 

PLD struggled with the jet so try to get him while his value is lower.  Fills a 2/3 line center for Montreal.  Winnipeg gets a winger with a couple years left on his deal for their top 6.  The pick with Drouin is only so there’s no salary retention.

I don't think team's would gamble on Drouin until they see him play a few games first. See where his mindset is and how his body language is on the ice in game action. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

I don't think team's would gamble on Drouin until they see him play a few games first. See where his mindset is and how his body language is on the ice in game action. 

Even if he comes back and does well, their is zero chance of him being a main price for PLD.

[alfredoh2009]

Based on a few articles on The Athletic:

 

Quote

But $3.7 million is nowhere near enough cap space to pay Copp on a long-term deal.

 

Neal Pionk earned his raise in full.

What does that mean for the #NHLJets, their cap situation, and Andrew Copp?

This is the early, quick hit -- and hey, I don't even think there's a paywall for it. Check it out:https://t.co/Oay7Hmhl4W

— Murat Ates (@WPGMurat) August 11, 2021

 

 

I think that the Habs and Winnipeg could help each other:

 

To Montreal: Andrew Copp, either after he goes through arbitration or before so that the Habs can extend him

To Winnipeg: Ryan Poehling (waiver eligible, 10.2c RFA prospect) for cap relief and depth and a conditional 3rd round pick if Copp accepts an extension to his contract

 

Winnipeg gets a potential 3rd line center that is still waiver eligible and still signed to an affordable salary cap. It helps WPG keep their core and fit under the cap with some cap room for later in the season. Keeps their window open.

 

Montreal gets a 3rd line center that can also center the 2nd line if KK falters. This trade makes them a cup contender again

[GHT120]

10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Based on a few articles on The Athletic:

I think that the Habs and Winnipeg could help each other:

 

To Montreal: Andrew Copp, either after he goes through arbitration or before so that the Habs can extend him

To Winnipeg: Ryan Poehling (waiver eligible, 10.2c RFA prospect) for cap relief and depth and a conditional 3rd round pick if Copp accepts an extension to his contract

 

Winnipeg gets a potential 3rd line center that is still waiver eligible and still signed to an affordable salary cap. It helps WPG keep their core and fit under the cap with some cap room for later in the season. Keeps their window open.

 

Montreal gets a 3rd line center that can also center the 2nd line if KK falters. This trade makes them a cup contender again

 

I would love to add Copp ... but I doubt the Habs can get a centre who played 18:15 in the 20/21 regular season for the Jets, and 21:50 in the playoffs, for a POTENTIAL 3C and a conditional 3rd rounder ... Bryan Little hasn't played since he was struck in the left side of the head by a Nik Ehlers' shot during a game on Nov. 5, 2019 ... so the Jets have a bit of LTIR cap relief available ... BUT, on the other hand, the Jets also have Scheifele, PLD, Stastny, Lowry and Nate Thompson who can play centre ... so a deal MIGHT be possible ... but it will take more ... likely something that can help the Jets now ... maybe Poehling, Lehkonen and a 2nd rounder to get serious talks started ... OR ... perhaps more likely ... a band-aid deal for Paul Stastny, who is on a one year deal at $3.75M ... maybe Lehkonen and a 5th for Stastny and a 3rd (saves Jets a few $$$ and gives them depth on the wing) ... MB never got a shot at him as a UFA because Paul re-signed (7/26) before free agency opened (7/28)

[alfredoh2009]

Lehkonen and Poehling makes sense if Copp has signed a 4yr extension at whatever $4.5M Cap hit

 

Either one with a 3rd round pick is what I would do if it is before arbitration or after where he would get a one year deal

[dlbalr]

I get the desire to try to take advantage of Winnipeg's cap situation but don't forget Montreal's in all of this.

 

For 2022-23, they have $61.389M tied up in just 11 players excluding Weber.  Let's add $4M for Copp.  Suzuki and Kotkaniemi, a lot depends on bridge or long-term deals; I suspect they'll want to go long-term for Suzuki so if he's around $6M and Kotkaniemi bridges for half of that, there's another $9M.  Now we're up to $74.389M with somewhere between 6-9 roster spots to fill and Chiarot, Kulak, Lehkonen (RFA), and Evans (RFA) among notables needing new contracts on what's expected to be an $82.5M cap.  Even at $1M average per roster spot, they'd have to let most of these guys go for entry-level or low-salary players.  That's a bit of a talent downgrade along the way.

 

Long story short?  If you want Copp, someone signed beyond next season has to go the other way or the Habs are going to be in trouble cap-wise next summer.

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

I get the desire to try to take advantage of Winnipeg's cap situation but don't forget Montreal's in all of this.

 

For 2022-23, they have $61.389M tied up in just 11 players excluding Weber.  Let's add $4M for Copp.  Suzuki and Kotkaniemi, a lot depends on bridge or long-term deals; I suspect they'll want to go long-term for Suzuki so if he's around $6M and Kotkaniemi bridges for half of that, there's another $9M.  Now we're up to $74.389M with somewhere between 6-9 roster spots to fill and Chiarot, Kulak, Lehkonen (RFA), and Evans (RFA) among notables needing new contracts on what's expected to be an $82.5M cap.  Even at $1M average per roster spot, they'd have to let most of these guys go for entry-level or low-salary players.  That's a bit of a talent downgrade along the way.

 

Long story short?  If you want Copp, someone signed beyond next season has to go the other way or the Habs are going to be in trouble cap-wise next summer.

your are projecting the 2022-2023 and beyond salary cap! That is way over my understanding of how that works, ut I'll give it a shot:

Here is projecting being $802.5k over the cap if they trade Lehkonne for picks or prospects (worst case)

 

Drouin(5.5M)-Suzuki(6.0M)-Caufield(0.88M)
Toffoli(4.25M)-Kotkaniemi(3.0M)-Anderson(5.5M)
Hoffman(4.5M)-Copp(4.0M)-Gallagher(6.5M)
Byron(3.4M)-Evans(.75M)Armia(2.4M)
Paquette(.75M)
Edmundson(3.5M)Petry(6.25M)    
Chiarot(3.5M)-Savard(3.5M)    
Romanov(2.0M)-Wideman(0.75M)    
Brook(.795M)-LTIR35Weber(7.857143M)

 

Price(1.5M)

Allen(2.875M)

 

If they trade Byron and keep Lehkonen, they'll be $297.500k under

 

[alfredoh2009]

Hey, this is a better trade:

 

To Montreal: Andrew Copp, either after he goes through arbitration or before so that the Habs can extend him

To Winnipeg: Ryan Poehling (waiver eligible, 10.2c RFA prospect), Paul Byron no retained salary this year for cap relief and depth and a conditional 3rd round pick if Copp accepts an extension to his contract

 

Winnipeg gets a potential 3rd line center a good bottom 6 winger that is in LTIR for half the year and both will clear waver if needed. It helps WPG keep their core and fit under the cap with some cap room for later in the season. Keeps their window open.

 

Montreal gets a 3rd line center that can also center the 2nd line if KK falters. This trade makes them a cup contender again. Enough cap room to keep this cup contending team for the "Price window"

[GHT120]

6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Hey, this is a better trade:

 

To Montreal: Andrew Copp, either after he goes through arbitration or before so that the Habs can extend him

To Winnipeg: Ryan Poehling (waiver eligible, 10.2c RFA prospect), Paul Byron no retained salary this year for cap relief and depth and a conditional 3rd round pick if Copp accepts an extension to his contract

 

Winnipeg gets a potential 3rd line center a good bottom 6 winger that is in LTIR for half the year and both will clear waver if needed. It helps WPG keep their core and fit under the cap with some cap room for later in the season. Keeps their window open.

 

Montreal gets a 3rd line center that can also center the 2nd line if KK falters. This trade makes them a cup contender again. Enough cap room to keep this cup contending team for the "Price window"

If this was the last season of his contract Byron might have value ... but another season @ $3.4M for a 4th, maybe 3rd, line player is excessive ... and eats up any trade value (IMO)  .....  and, it doesn't change the fact that Poehling as a proven 3C is a couple of seasons away, and may not happen ... meaning minimal trade value for a team that is likely in playoff mode.

[alfredoh2009]

Byron will be “half price” this year and is the equivalent of a trade deadline rental

Next year he can be waived an buried in the minors  

 

Poehling and Byron provide a 2-for-1 deal ar a reasonable cap hit 

[GHT120]

32 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Byron will be “half price” this year and is the equivalent of a trade deadline rental

Next year he can be waived an buried in the minors  

 

Poehling and Byron provide a 2-for-1 deal ar a reasonable cap hit 

Only $1.125 of Byrons AAV gets buried ... $2.275 remains on the cap ... and without regard to the cap, it still remains a low return for the Jets from an on-ice perspective.

[DON]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Byron will be “half price” this year and is the equivalent of a trade deadline rental

Next year he can be waived an buried in the minors  

 

Poehling and Byron provide a 2-for-1 deal ar a reasonable cap hit 

Keep at it Potatohead, appreciate the effort.

I cant even really attempt proposing trade deals, i simply dont know enough about $$s/cap etc and relie on those who know such details much better than i will ever know (dlbalr for example). I could propose who 'seems' like a good swap but not fine details or if actually makes sense.

[alfredoh2009]

I am bored  

 

and I think we lost Commandant who was really good at keeping the forum going 

 

it is also a good way to take a break from work 

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Byron will be “half price” this year and is the equivalent of a trade deadline rental

Next year he can be waived an buried in the minors  

 

Poehling and Byron provide a 2-for-1 deal ar a reasonable cap hit 

 

I know what you mean by Byron being half price in the sense that he'll be on LTIR for a good chunk of the year but the cap hit counts in full when he returns.  Including him without retention doesn't solve Winnipeg's problems here.  (And they've now signed Copp to a one-year deal at just enough to barely stay compliant so this is moot anyway.)

 

Byron has a negative-value contract.  Teams would be asking for a sweetener to take on his deal.

[tomh009]

On 8/12/2021 at 6:22 PM, alfredoh2009 said:

I am bored  

 

and I think we lost Commandant who was really good at keeping the forum going

I believe Commandant is still reading the forum, just not posting at the moment.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I believe Commandant is still reading the forum, just not posting at the moment.

 

My understanding is that he has left habsworld for good.

 

I certainly hope this is not the case, as he has been one of the very best posters in the history of this site IMHO

[Fanpuck33]

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

My understanding is that he has left habsworld for good.

 

I certainly hope this is not the case, as he has been one of the very best posters in the history of this site IMHO

 

As much as I tend to disagree with him, I agree with the sentiment. But I feel like if he was gone for good, he wouldn't still be checking the forum daily.