Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[alfredoh2009]

32 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Wonder if they're willing to give up Pageau

JGP would be great to have

[tomh009]

18 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I wonder if Calle Jarnkrok can be had from the Kraken

 

To MTL: Jarnkrok

To SEA: CAR's 1st, 2nd and J. Oloffson (filler for their AHL team)

I didn't think Seattle had their own AHL team this year yet? Or did I miss that?

[alfredoh2009]

4 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I didn't think Seattle had their own AHL team this year yet? Or did I miss that?

they need one to put all those extra players. In any case, Olofsson is playing in Sweden:

 

https://theahl.com/tag/palm-springs

 

https://www.nhl.com/kraken/news/kraken-partner-with-charlotte-checkers-as-ahl-affiliate-2021-2022-season/c-325497370

Edited September 1, 2021 by alfredoh2009

[Habsfan89]

28 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

JGP would be great to have

I would try and offer them our 1st (lottery protected) along with Evans for Pageau. That would clear the cap space NYI need. Then we don't match the offer sheet to Kotkaniemi. 

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

Wonder if they're willing to give up Pageau

 

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

JGP would be great to have  👍

 

42 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I would try and offer them our 1st (lottery protected) along with Evans for Pageau. That would clear the cap space NYI need. Then we don't match the offer sheet to Kotkaniemi. 

 

Islanders gave up a first and a second to get him, while JGP was technically a pending UFA (immediately signed a new deal), at the 2020 deadline ... with 5 yrs remaining on his deal (@$5M) and a being very strong on faceoffs (13th in the NHL last season, minimum 100 faceoffs ... Danault was 52nd) I doubt a first and a 4C (with possible 3C potential) gets Pageau ... and there is the factor of his NTC.

[dlbalr]

4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I wonder if Calle Jarnkrok can be had from the Kraken

 

To MTL: Jarnkrok

To SEA: CAR's 1st, 2nd and J. Oloffson (filler for their AHL team)

 

What did Olofsson do to you? 

 

I think that's too much to offer for Jarnkrok, a player who has spent most of his time the last few years on the wing; he's not really a centre anymore and is more of a higher-end third liner than a top six player.  He has a low cap hit but he's a rental. 

 

Kotkaniemi, a 2nd and Olofsson for a rental third liner and a third rounder isn't a particularly ideal outcome for the Habs and that's what this basically boils down to.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

What did Olofsson do to you? 

 

I think that's too much to offer for Jarnkrok, a player who has spent most of his time the last few years on the wing; he's not really a centre anymore and is more of a higher-end third liner than a top six player.  He has a low cap hit but he's a rental. 

 

Kotkaniemi, a 2nd and Olofsson for a rental third liner and a third rounder isn't a particularly ideal outcome for the Habs and that's what this basically boils down to.

 

Agreed, turning KK into Jarnkrok is definitely not a win. 

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

What did Olofsson do to you? 

He he he ... nothing. 
 

i just want this week to be over so that we can get on with training camp

 

big-O in Sweden is a throw in to a team that helps us get a 3C and fill the hole left by KK leaving

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

34 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

He he he ... nothing. 
 

i just want this week to be over so that we can get on with training camp

 

big-O in Sweden is a throw in to a team that helps us get a 3C and fill the hole left by KK leaving

 

I think we are more worried about a 2C not a 3C. We need someone to play behind Suzuki. 

[alfredoh2009]

Not getting a 3C with a late 1st and middling prospects and maybe a middle of the pack 2nd

 

unless we give someone already on the top 9

[TurdBurglar]

16 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not getting a 3C with a late 1st and middling prospects and maybe a middle of the pack 2nd

 

unless we give someone already on the top 9

I would disagree.  In trades most 3C are picked up for a lot less than a 1st round pick.  Most are somewhere between 2nd round and 3rd round picks with filler prospects, from cup contending teams which are mid to late rounds.

 

Danault was picked up for a 2nd, while he was a young 3C with potential. Paul Stasny was traded to Winnipeg for a defenseman who has played less than 80 games in the NHL, currently in Sweden and a 4th.  
 

Also, who gives up a top-9 forward plus a decent pick up a 3C?  That’s a massive overpayment unless the 3C is potentially a 2C.

[alfredoh2009]

32 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Also, who gives up a top-9 forward plus a decent pick up a 3C?  That’s a massive overpayment unless the 3C is potentially a 2C.

You got it , that’s what I said

[TurdBurglar]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

You got it , that’s what I said

I apologize.  I haven’t seen anywhere where you said that, so I was commenting on what you actually said.

[alfredoh2009]

9 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I apologize.  I haven’t seen anywhere where you said that, so I was commenting on what you actually said.

Got a like from me on that !

[alfredoh2009]

19 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

I would disagree.  In trades most 3C are picked up for a lot less than a 1st round pick.  Most are somewhere between 2nd round and 3rd round picks with filler prospects, from cup contending teams which are mid to late rounds.

 

Danault was picked up for a 2nd, while he was a young 3C with potential. Paul Stasny was traded to Winnipeg for a defenseman who has played less than 80 games in the NHL, currently in Sweden and a 4th.  
 

Also, who gives up a top-9 forward plus a decent pick up a 3C?  That’s a massive overpayment unless the 3C is potentially a 2C.

 

first, thank you for reading my post; and second, let me clarify it.

 

with the addition of SEA, there are less centres available in the league. Demand is high and trade value up. You are right in your estimate of what it used to take to trade for a 3C, except this off-season.

 

On the overpayment... let's see who we have on the top 9 that may be a trade chip (I'll remove Suzuki, Caufield):

Hoffman, Drouin, Anderson, Toffoli ,Evans, Gallagher

 

all fine wingers and a good 4C, but no 2C.

 

Trading any of these, a 1st and a "filler" should get us a 2C on a previous year. This off-season, given the Habs' situation, they will probably need to overpay

 

I do not know what it will take, but I am posting my best guesses.

[TurdBurglar]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

first, thank you for reading my post; and second, let me clarify it.

 

with the addition of SEA, there are less centres available in the league. Demand is high and trade value up. You are right in your estimate of what it used to take to trade for a 3C, except this off-season.

 

On the overpayment... let's see who we have on the top 9 that may be a trade chip (I'll remove Suzuki, Caufield):

Hoffman, Drouin, Anderson, Toffoli ,Evans, Gallagher

 

all fine wingers and a good 4C, but no 2C.

 

Trading any of these, a 1st and a "filler" should get us a 2C on a previous year. This off-season, given the Habs' situation, they will probably need to overpay

 

I do not know what it will take, but I am posting my best guesses.

I’m not sure what situation you are talking about.  KK isn’t gone yet.  MB can match and have to do some tight cap negotiations, but KK can still easily be in a Habs uniform next year.  The absolute dire need for a 2C isn’t there, unless KK goes to Carolina and MB doesn’t have something else figured out.

 

That being said, if MB has a line on an upgrade or equivalent using the 2 picks, the trade can’t happen until The matching if the offer sheet is turned down.  

Above all, matching or not, there’s no reason whatsoever that MB shouldn’t leave it to the last minute to announce the decision.  Chances are he has his mid made up by now, and with the lack of rumours on replacements, I would imagine he his holding his cards close to his chest and probably will match it.

[GHT120]

19 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

... The absolute dire need for a 2C isn’t there, unless KK goes to Carolina ...

That assumes KK will be a legit 2C next season ... still very much an unknown 

[alfredoh2009]

10 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

That assumes KK will be a legit 2C next season ... still very much an unknown 

exactly!

 

Most on this forum are not convinced Kotkaniemi is a legit 2C on a cup contending team

[GHT120]

24 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

exactly!

 

Most on this forum are not convinced Kotkaniemi is a legit 2C on a cup contending team

 

"convinced" is the key word ... if MB's focus is on making the playoffs in 21/22 then banking on KK to be the 2C is very risky ... and with the money spent on Anderson, Hoffman, Toffoli, and Gallagher's extension the Habs are clearly not in develop the youngsters mode

[GHT120]

After yesterday, Habs are still seriously overmatched at 3C, and are depending on a 22 yr-old Suzuki to take on MAJOR responsibilities ... with the investment in wingers that MB has made in recent years having a donut third line is an absolute waste ...Habs should would look to Vancouver and centre (pun intended) a trade proposal around Gallagher (home-town Vancouver boy) for either Miller or Horvat ... likely other, lesser pieces on both sides ... Armia or Lehkonen could slide up to the third line (even Paquette or Perrault some nights) and the Habs would have three lines that could be almost interchangeable from night-to-night ... quite difficult for opponents to defend.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

33 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

After yesterday, Habs are still seriously overmatched at 3C, and are depending on a 22 yr-old Suzuki to take on MAJOR responsibilities ... with the investment in wingers that MB has made in recent years having a donut third line is an absolute waste ...Habs should would look to Vancouver and centre (pun intended) a trade proposal around Gallagher (home-town Vancouver boy) for either Miller or Horvat ... likely other, lesser pieces on both sides ... Armia or Lehkonen could slide up to the third line (even Paquette or Perrault some nights) and the Habs would have three lines that could be almost interchangeable from night-to-night ... quite difficult for opponents to defend.

 

I think Bo Horvat is terrific, would not be cheap but he can do so many things. As much as I love Gally, I would be more than happy with some sort of Gally-Horvat trade. We would be set at centre for a long time and we are deep enough at wing to do this. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

13 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I think Bo Horvat is terrific, would not be cheap but he can do so many things. As much as I love Gally, I would be more than happy with some sort of Gally-Horvat trade. We would be set at centre for a long time and we are deep enough at wing to do this. 

 

Gally for Horvat would be brilliant, but even Dim Jim Benning is not going to trade Horvat. Especially not for a winger.

[alfredoh2009]

5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

After yesterday, Habs are still seriously overmatched at 3C, and are depending on a 22 yr-old Suzuki to take on MAJOR responsibilities ... with the investment in wingers that MB has made in recent years having a donut third line is an absolute waste ...Habs should would look to Vancouver and centre (pun intended) a trade proposal around Gallagher (home-town Vancouver boy) for either Miller or Horvat ... likely other, lesser pieces on both sides ... Armia or Lehkonen could slide up to the third line (even Paquette or Perrault some nights) and the Habs would have three lines that could be almost interchangeable from night-to-night ... quite difficult for opponents to defend.

you like hyperbole in your posts... overmatched? it depends against which teams. Suzuki's MAJOR responsibilities? not anymore than last year...

 

Jake Allen last year's stats are close to Jesperi Kotkaniemi's stats, although at a lower PPG (.28 vs .36) but also with worse wingers. Evans should match KK's production from last year, and have a much better FO% and goals against than KK. % of expected goals should be on par or better if he plays with Toffoli and Gallagher.

 

Evans may or may not replace KK's number from last year, but he is no pushover

 

if Evans is not up to the task, there may be a trace if Evans cannot win a spot

 

 

 

 

[GHT120]

16 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

you like hyperbole in your posts... overmatched? it depends against which teams. Suzuki's MAJOR responsibilities? not anymore than last year...

 

Jake Allen last year's stats are close to Jesperi Kotkaniemi's stats, although at a lower PPG (.28 vs .36) but also with worse wingers. Evans should match KK's production from last year, and have a much better FO% and goals against than KK. % of expected goals should be on par or better if he plays with Toffoli and Gallagher.

 

Evans may or may not replace KK's number from last year, but he is no pushover

 

if Evans is not up to the task, there may be a trace if Evans cannot win a spot

Allow me to slightly modify ... IMO they are overmatched at 3C against any team that has a legit (or better) NHL third line centre ... Evans is not even a proven 4C ... MB went out and got Staal to effectively replace him last season ... depending on JE to carry a regular 3rd line workload is not prudent if the goal is the playoffs ... as an alternative to trading for one, Tyler Bozak is still unsigned, as is Travis Zajac (although he could be a LL slight of hand roster move), and would be a decent 3C if the AAV is reasonable.

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, GHT120 said:

Allow me to slightly modify ... IMO they are overmatched at 3C against any team that has a legit (or better) NHL third line centre ... Evans is not even a proven 4C ... MB went out and got Staal to effectively replace him last season ... depending on JE to carry a regular 3rd line workload is not prudent if the goal is the playoffs ... as an alternative to trading for one, Tyler Bozak is still unsigned, as is Travis Zajac (although he could be a LL slight of hand roster move), and would be a decent 3C if the AAV is reasonable.

thanks for clarifying.

 

yes, Evans will probably be overmatched in games against powerhouse teams like TBL, BOS, etc

 

but he played really well in the playoffs and didn't look out of place.

 

I would wait until training camp to assess how well he projects to play. I think the Habs have sufficient depth as it is at centre