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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


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6 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Allow me to slightly modify ... IMO they are overmatched at 3C against any team that has a legit (or better) NHL third line centre ... Evans is not even a proven 4C ... MB went out and got Staal to effectively replace him last season ... depending on JE to carry a regular 3rd line workload is not prudent if the goal is the playoffs ... as an alternative to trading for one, Tyler Bozak is still unsigned, as is Travis Zajac (although he could be a LL slight of hand roster move), and would be a decent 3C if the AAV is reasonable.

 

It's not just 3C vs 3C, though. We have strong wingers for the third and fourth lines (whatever the lines look like to start the season) and the strong, experienced wingers will help mitigate the centres' lack of experience. Sure, ideally, we'd have another experienced C, but with only about $1.2M left on the cap (and Byron expected back from LTIR during the season), that's simply not going to happen.

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Just now, tomh009 said:

It's not just 3C vs 3C, though. We have strong wingers for the third and fourth lines (whatever the lines look like to start the season) and the strong, experienced wingers will help mitigate the centres' lack of experience. Sure, ideally, we'd have another experienced C, but with only about $1.2M left on the cap (and Byron expected back from LTIR during the season), that's simply not going to happen.

Of course while mitigating the 3C position the wingers are not able to optimize their own contributions

 

Secondly, IMO Byron has to go ... 

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

So here's a question, would buffalo be more willing to make a Eichel trade with Montreal more now with a package centering around Dvorak, more so then they would In Kotkaniemi 🤔

 

That's a good question. Maybe they would but I think the Habs are done dealing for now but with MB you never know. 

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9 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

So here's a question, would buffalo be more willing to make a Eichel trade with Montreal more now with a package centering around Dvorak

Has any player that was traded for in off-season, to play a key role (who is a nice fit and has nice long affordable contract), ever been traded away...before even playing 1 game?

Just seems so unlikely, that isnt even a consideration?

 

But, is a type of player the Habs have needed for long time, Kovalev's 84pt season in 07-08 was last thing even close to what Eichel might bring. 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sabres-re-engage-interested-teams-meeting-eichels-representatives/

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On 9/5/2021 at 7:10 PM, GHT120 said:

Of course while mitigating the 3C position the wingers are not able to optimize their own contributions

 

Secondly, IMO Byron has to go ... 

 

not sure I follow your logic.

At 3C there is the Pacquette option who is no slouch and really doesn’t require wingers to cover for him.

Evans appears to be in the same boat at this point, has proven he can be relied upon.

Regardless, if the team feels the need to “insulate” the 3C it will be by asking that player to focus on défense first mentality, which actually allows wingers to flourish in an offensive role as they know their C will reliably be the high man in o-zone and first back checker and deep d-zone support coming back the other way. It means that 3C winger duo can focus on offensive push, which is why I like Drouin/Gallagher on 3rd line with and experienced, reliable C as in Pacquette.  He may not be exciting but given that role he could thrive.   Same said for Evans, but see no reason to push him past 4th line with two mature, reliable, two way wingers like Lehks/Armia.

That makes a deep, four line attack that the organization seems to prefer.  They also prefer défense-first, no mistake hockey so whomever plays 3C will not be a burden to their winger production, I see it as being a possible boost for them.  That line will still get 13-16 min/night depending on special teams.

 

Re. Byron: he is overpaid, but also loved by teammates, reliable two way player who never takes a shift/game off.  Injuries will occur and given he has played just about every position is a useful, versatile member of the team.  If Habs are a bust I can see him moving by trade deadline to a contender with some salary retained.  He’s not terrible at C either, not ideal but given lack of C depth I could see him getting a shot if either Pacquette and/or Evans falter.

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11 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

So here's a question, would buffalo be more willing to make a Eichel trade with Montreal more now with a package centering around Dvorak, more so then they would In Kotkaniemi 🤔

Hard to picture it, Buffalo is cheap. Their idea with KK would have been same goal as Habs (bridge deal).  Dvorak is relatively pricey for them, they are cheap!
Additionally, the Habs would be completely betting on Eichel having super quick recovery (hasn’t even had procedure yet, possibly won’t play this year or at best half of season) and Mtl will surely blow this entire season if they ship out Dvorak, and that isn’t happening under Bergy in his last year of contract.

The team see Dvorak as a Danault 2.0 (undervalued, underused and poorly complimented on prior team) and he will be given lots of opportunity to shine in Mtl.  His contract is gonna look good after 55 point year this season, taking all of the key draws that Danault used to and playing first PK unit, 2nd PP unit. Will be an upgrade on Danault, much better than KK for next 2-3 years.  He is not going anywhere.

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

... Re. Byron: he is overpaid, but also loved by teammates, reliable two way player who never takes a shift/game off.  Injuries will occur and given he has played just about every position is a useful, versatile member of the team.  If Habs are a bust I can see him moving by trade deadline to a contender with some salary retained.  He’s not terrible at C either, not ideal but given lack of C depth I could see him getting a shot if either Pacquette and/or Evans falter.

My issue is not, and has never been, with Byron the player ... but the habs already have $5.7 million AAV invested in their 7/8th wingers (Armia and Lehkonen) ... when Byron is healthy that becomes a three-way battle between $9.1M AAV of players ... too much top-9 injury insurance IMO

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3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

My issue is not, and has never been, with Byron the player ... but the habs already have $5.7 million AAV invested in their 7/8th wingers (Armia and Lehkonen) ... when Byron is healthy that becomes a three-way battle between $9.1M AAV of players ... too much top-9 injury insurance IMO

Cup contending teams have overpaid depth players if they are in contention.

 

If the Habs are out of the playoffs near the trade deadline, I would not be surprised MB trades for picks next year.

 

But if the Habs have another surprising year and are contending, this trio stays

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Byron is our assistant captain MAN!...but his offense seems to be same in the last couple years as it was in Calgary. He had 3 overachieving seasons with 22g, 20g, 15g, but guess musta lost a step or getting fewer offensive chances?

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27 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Cup contending teams have overpaid depth players if they are in contention.

 

If the Habs are out of the playoffs near the trade deadline, I would not be surprised MB trades for picks next year.

 

But if the Habs have another surprising year and are contending, this trio stays

Two of the $9.1M three are plenty of depth IMO ... especially with Perrault also available (assuming Paquette and Evans are the 3/4C (leaving Poehling out of the equation pending training camp) ... and even taking into accout LTIR the Habs will have little, more like no, cap space for call-ups ... let alone any acquisitions (deadline or earlier) ... unless a other full-season LTIR injury occurs

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8 minutes ago, DON said:

Byron is our assistant captain MAN!...but his offense seems to be same in the last couple years as it was in Calgary. He had 3 overachieving seasons with 22g, 20g, 15g, but guess musta lost a step or getting fewer offensive chances?

Being an A/C is not (IMO) a reason to keep his cap issues.

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Byron has no trade value right now due to the injury and contract.  

 

You have to wait til he is healthy, and are likely making a trade similar to the ones made by other teams with Arizona this summer where you give Byron + draft pick for nothing.

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6 hours ago, DON said:

Has any player that was traded for in off-season, to play a key role (who is a nice fit and has nice long affordable contract), ever been traded away...before even playing 1 game?

Just seems so unlikely, that isnt even a consideration?

 

But, is a type of player the Habs have needed for long time, Kovalev's 84pt season in 07-08 was last thing even close to what Eichel might bring. 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sabres-re-engage-interested-teams-meeting-eichels-representatives/

Yes players have been traded then flip to other teams before. And for those reasons you listed I would think buffalo would be interested in Dvorak more than they would be in Kotkaniemi. Dvorak would be a better replacement for Eichel then Kotkaniemi would be.  

 

A 1st, Dvorak, Armia, and a top prospect would be a better hall for buffalo than any offer package involving Kotkaniemi. 

 

But all in all I'm okay with Dvorak and Suzuki as our top centers. The only thing that worries me is our depth on D. Man if we get any key injuries on D we're in trouble. 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... or are you just trolling? (Honest question)

No more so than all the other posts that propose no trade nor comment on a specific proposal.

 

43 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Byron has no trade value right now due to the injury and contract.  

 

You have to wait til he is healthy, and are likely making a trade similar to the ones made by other teams with Arizona this summer where you give Byron + draft pick for nothing.

With Byron expected back in late December or early January there likely aren't enough games until the trade deadline to increase his value ... expect it will take little more now to make a deal than it will in February.

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36 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Yes players have been traded then flip to other teams before. And for those reasons you listed I would think buffalo would be interested in Dvorak more than they would be in Kotkaniemi. Dvorak would be a better replacement for Eichel then Kotkaniemi would be.  

 

A 1st, Dvorak, Armia, and a top prospect would be a better hall for buffalo than any offer package involving Kotkaniemi. 

Unless something changed, Buffalo wants a complete salary dump if Eichel gets traded.  So it would need to be a team that can currently fit Eichel in and Buffalo would get picks and prospects back.  If that is still true, Buffalo would have no interest in either Dvorak or Armia.

 

It kind of sounded like Buffalo set the demands so high that there’s no way a trade could happen.  Either teams had the cap space but not the assets, or the assets and not the cap space.  This is my opinion though.

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53 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Unless something changed, Buffalo wants a complete salary dump if Eichel gets traded.  So it would need to be a team that can currently fit Eichel in and Buffalo would get picks and prospects back.  If that is still true, Buffalo would have no interest in either Dvorak or Armia.

 

It kind of sounded like Buffalo set the demands so high that there’s no way a trade could happen.  Either teams had the cap space but not the assets, or the assets and not the cap space.  This is my opinion though.

I don't think that they're cutting pay or cheap. I think they're just trading guys that don't want to be there and  Trying to change their locker room atmosphere. 

Buffalo isn't Arizona, buffalo just sucks at trying to build a winner. 

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

No more so than all the other posts that propose no trade nor comment on a specific proposal.

 

With Byron expected back in late December or early January there likely aren't enough games until the trade deadline to increase his value ... expect it will take little more now to make a deal than it will in February.

 

The advantage of February is that there is less of a cap hit attached for this season.

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Byron cleared waivers. That shows you how much value he brings relative to his contract.

 

At this stage, he is a grossly overpaid, marginal, and often-injured forward who has the occasional great shift. We’re just going to have to carry that contract, I suspect, until it expires.

 

(Don’t get me wrong, I have enormous respect for the way he carved out an NHL career against all odds. But this isn’t five years ago. He’s done as a reliable contributor IMHO).

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10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Byron cleared waivers. That shows you how much value he brings relative to his contract.

 

At this stage, he is a grossly overpaid, marginal, and often-injured forward who has the occasional great shift. We’re just going to have to carry that contract, I suspect, until it expires.

 

(Don’t get me wrong, I have enormous respect for the way he carved out an NHL career against all odds. But this isn’t five years ago. He’s done as a reliable contributor IMHO).

He will be 34 at the end of this contract ... I expect he will be worth a Paquette/Perrault-ish contract if he stays healthy ... a bit more if he is healthy and halfway productive ... unless his health continues to be an issue I think retirement will be on his own terms.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Byron cleared waivers. That shows you how much value he brings relative to his contract.

 

At this stage, he is a grossly overpaid, marginal, and often-injured forward who has the occasional great shift. We’re just going to have to carry that contract, I suspect, until it expires.

 

(Don’t get me wrong, I have enormous respect for the way he carved out an NHL career against all odds. But this isn’t five years ago. He’s done as a reliable contributor IMHO).

 

I think if you retain salary he would have value at the trade deadline both this year and next year.  Byron at 1.7 for 1 year and a few months (or just a few months) is a big difference from waivers where he was 3.4 million for 2 years and a few months.

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