dlbalr Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 7 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Holland could have 1 more bad trade in him and if he does it might as well be with the Habs. He is desperate right now. I don't know how desperate he really is. Most of this stretch has been without Smith available - he's now healthy so that buys him a bit of time. I just don't see him turning around and moving either Nugent-Hopkins or Hyman less than a year after signing them to max-term contracts in order to bring a goalie in. And that's the type of player they'd have to trade to be able to afford to bring a goalie in with any sort of long-term commitment. And again, there's no indication that Price is coming back now this season - he stopped skating weeks ago. He was set to undergo another evaluation with his knee not recovering as planned. So no, Edmonton's not moving a core player (to afford Price long-term), a bunch of high-end future assets (to get Price), and getting the Habs to retain more $20M to bring in a goalie that isn't trending towards actually playing this season. It's not going to happen; that would make Edmonton worse this year, not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 8 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Keith only has 1 more year after this but it is an overpay, his best years are well behind him. Holland has made some mistakes and has tough decisions to make. He have up 2 x 2nd round picks for Andreas Athanasiou and he scored a grand total of 1 goal for the Oilers. That's a huge mistake, 2 round picks are valuable, you don't just throw them away. Holland could have 1 more bad trade in him and if he does it might as well be with the Habs. He is desperate right now. He's still got Cody Ceci for 4 years. Mike Smith is signed next season. Zack Kassian has this season and 2 more. Zack Hyman has 6 more years James Neal's buyout has 4 years at 2 million in dead cap. Sekera's buyout is another year at 1.5 million. Lucic is another nearly million in dead cap next year as a retained salary. This is the issue, the Oilers cap can't handle Price's contract because of the term. They have too many long term liabilities on the books. If they just had their stars like McDavid, Drai, RNH, Nurse, etc... that would be one thing, but all those others make the trade near impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, dlbalr said: And again, there's no indication that Price is coming back now this season - he stopped skating weeks ago. He was set to undergo another evaluation with his knee not recovering as planned. So ... is there a significant risk that Price will not return at all? That both Price and Weber are going to spend the last five years of their careers on LTIR? Because that will change the nature of the rebuild, to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, tomh009 said: So ... is there a significant risk that Price will not return at all? That both Price and Weber are going to spend the last five years of their careers on LTIR? Because that will change the nature of the rebuild, to be sure. Well - this is the second complete season shutdown of Price’s career due to knee issues. That sure doesn’t bode well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Keith only has 1 more year after this but it is an overpay, his best years are well behind him ... The even bigger mistake is the NMC attached to that overpay ... recognizing that last season is not a good comparable because of the Covid imposed differences, adding Keith has done little to improve the Oilers' defence ... dropping from 2.75 to 3.26 GA (OBVIOUSLY not entirely Keith's fault) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 43 minutes ago, tomh009 said: So ... is there a significant risk that Price will not return at all? That both Price and Weber are going to spend the last five years of their careers on LTIR? Because that will change the nature of the rebuild, to be sure. I wouldn't say it's a significant risk for Price. The timing for him stopping skating also was right around when the NHL pulled out of the Olympics so it could be as simple as 'not recovering as expected' is a cover for him losing the one thing that was really pushing him to try to come back right away. But I'd be surprised if he comes back this season at this point aside from maybe a game or two at the end of the year if he needs to test it out before making a decision on needing another surgery or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, dlbalr said: I don't know how desperate he really is. Most of this stretch has been without Smith available - he's now healthy so that buys him a bit of time. I just don't see him turning around and moving either Nugent-Hopkins or Hyman less than a year after signing them to max-term contracts in order to bring a goalie in. And that's the type of player they'd have to trade to be able to afford to bring a goalie in with any sort of long-term commitment. And again, there's no indication that Price is coming back now this season - he stopped skating weeks ago. He was set to undergo another evaluation with his knee not recovering as planned. So no, Edmonton's not moving a core player (to afford Price long-term), a bunch of high-end future assets (to get Price), and getting the Habs to retain more $20M to bring in a goalie that isn't trending towards actually playing this season. It's not going to happen; that would make Edmonton worse this year, not better. No question, if Price has shut it down then we are wasting our breath talking about this. Smith is 40 in a couple months and injury prone, Koskinen let's in way too many bad goals. I guarantee Holland will do something about the goaltending situation. He doesn't want to be known as the GM who couldn't win with 2 of the best players on the planet because he couldn't find a goalie. He is desperate. I don't expect a Price trade to Edmonton to happen because there are a lot of complications to work out. It's starting to look like Price has shut it down. If that's the case then 100% it doesn't happen. If Price was playing and healthy then Edmonton could work out the contract stuff, it would be easy for this year as Koskinen would have to be included and he makes almost the same as Price if Montreal retained 50%. They would have work to do in the future with the cap but it is doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 56 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Well - this is the second complete season shutdown of Price’s career due to knee issues. That sure doesn’t bode well. I think Price could come back this season if there was a reason to come back. With no reason to come back, no olympics or playoffs, its best to let him rest and get the knee to 100% rather than playing at 80% or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Commandant said: He's still got Cody Ceci for 4 years. Mike Smith is signed next season. Zack Kassian has this season and 2 more. Zack Hyman has 6 more years James Neal's buyout has 4 years at 2 million in dead cap. Sekera's buyout is another year at 1.5 million. Lucic is another nearly million in dead cap next year as a retained salary. This is the issue, the Oilers cap can't handle Price's contract because of the term. They have too many long term liabilities on the books. If they just had their stars like McDavid, Drai, RNH, Nurse, etc... that would be one thing, but all those others make the trade near impossible. The year that will be difficult for the Oilers will be next year. After next year they gain 2.2M in dead cap space and Keith's 5.5M is done (replaced by Broberg at the minimum). And perhaps the cap goes up. No question, the Oilers have made some bad moves which has limited their flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: No question, if Price has shut it down then we are wasting our breath talking about this. Smith is 40 in a couple months and injury prone, Koskinen let's in way too many bad goals. I guarantee Holland will do something about the goaltending situation. He doesn't want to be known as the GM who couldn't win with 2 of the best players on the planet because he couldn't find a goalie. He is desperate. I don't expect a Price trade to Edmonton to happen because there are a lot of complications to work out. It's starting to look like Price has shut it down. If that's the case then 100% it doesn't happen. If Price was playing and healthy then Edmonton could work out the contract stuff, it would be easy for this year as Koskinen would have to be included and he makes almost the same as Price if Montreal retained 50%. They would have work to do in the future with the cap but it is doable. We'll see who they get. I'd be stunned if it's someone on a long-term contract because of that cap situation as it is far worse than I think you realize. $11M for 10 players (including a goalie, Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, and rounding out the rest of the roster at a minimum of $750K per slot) is extremely difficult to work with. The goalies they've been linked to so far are all on short-term, below-market contracts and it's for that reason. If they were to get Allen, I'm not even convinced it'd be Koskinen coming the other way but rather Smith because that would allow them to go Allen/Skinner for next season which would be an upgrade that they can actually afford in 22-23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: No question, if Price has shut it down then we are wasting our breath talking about this. Smith is 40 in a couple months and injury prone, Koskinen let's in way too many bad goals. I guarantee Holland will do something about the goaltending situation. He doesn't want to be known as the GM who couldn't win with 2 of the best players on the planet because he couldn't find a goalie. He is desperate. I don't expect a Price trade to Edmonton to happen because there are a lot of complications to work out. It's starting to look like Price has shut it down. If that's the case then 100% it doesn't happen. If Price was playing and healthy then Edmonton could work out the contract stuff, it would be easy for this year as Koskinen would have to be included and he makes almost the same as Price if Montreal retained 50%. They would have work to do in the future with the cap but it is doable. I'm sure Holland will do something. The issue is that he won't commit to four years at 5.25 million (or more if the Habs retain less than 50%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: The year that will be difficult for the Oilers will be next year. After next year they gain 2.2M in dead cap space and Keith's 5.5M is done (replaced by Broberg at the minimum). And perhaps the cap goes up. The cap at most goes up $1M next summer and $1M the summer after that. That was announced a while ago. Until the escrow is repaid, the cap ceiling is capped at going up by $1M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: The year that will be difficult for the Oilers will be next year. After next year they gain 2.2M in dead cap space and Keith's 5.5M is done (replaced by Broberg at the minimum). And perhaps the cap goes up. No question, the Oilers have made some bad moves which has limited their flexibility. Those years will see significant raises coming for Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, and they hope Bouchard and Broberg will be ready to earn raises too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: Those years will see significant raises coming for Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, and they hope Bouchard and Broberg will be ready to earn raises too. No question Puljujarvi will get a significant raise, not sure about Yamamoto as the jury is still out on how effective he is. By the time Bouchard and Broberg get significant raises then a lot of other contracts will be off the books (ie. Kassian, Foegele, Neal) and Barrie at 4.5M will only have 1 more year. Any savings from Barrie will likely pay for Bouchard's next contract as they fill the same role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: No question Puljujarvi will get a significant raise, not sure about Yamamoto as the jury is still out on how effective he is. By the time Bouchard and Broberg get significant raises then a lot of other contracts will be off the books (ie. Kassian, Foegele, Neal) and Barrie at 4.5M will only have 1 more year. Any savings from Barrie will likely pay for Bouchard's next contract as they fill the same role. I just don't see how Price fits, especially given his age and that we all know he isn't the 70 game per season goalie that he used to be. He's great in playoffs, but you need to pay a significant backup too. They can't afford 7-8 million in goalies for the next four years. We can go through each player, but Brian has also posted how much cap space they will have each year and how many players are under contract. I just don't see how this works. Georgiev, Allen, Swayman, and others are better options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 41 minutes ago, Commandant said: I just don't see how Price fits, especially given his age and that we all know he isn't the 70 game per season goalie that he used to be. He's great in playoffs, but you need to pay a significant backup too. They can't afford 7-8 million in goalies for the next four years. We can go through each player, but Brian has also posted how much cap space they will have each year and how many players are under contract. I just don't see how this works. Georgiev, Allen, Swayman, and others are better options. If you believe Georgiev, Allen or Swayman give the Oilers as good a chance to win the Stanley Cup as Price (assuming Price is healthy) then they are certainly better options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: If you believe Georgiev, Allen or Swayman give the Oilers as good a chance to win the Stanley Cup as Price (assuming Price is healthy) then they are certainly better options. Sure, a healthy Price playing to his potential is better than those options but the odds of that happening aren't great and the key word is affordability. (I think Swayman can be taken off that list too, Boston isn't moving him even with Rask coming back eventually.) They can't afford a high-end starter so they have to look a tier down. That's the situation they've boxed themselves into; there's just no way around it. If Chicago is open to eating half of Fleury's contract and Fleury is open to a move, that one could be an option as well as moving Koskinen out in such a move would make the cap work. But Holland isn't adding a high-end starter with term in the next 10 weeks before the trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, dlbalr said: If Chicago is open to eating half of Fleury's contract and Fleury is open to a move, that one could be an option as well as moving Koskinen out in such a move would make the cap work. That is likely the best solution for the Oilers this year assuming Chicago doesn't want an arm and a leg for a 1 year rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 is there any chance Habs could make this trade? To Toronto: * Jeff Petry (34yr, $6.25M->2025) To Montreal: * TJ Brody (31yr, $5,0M ->2024) * Topi Niemela (RD drafted #64 in 2020) I believe Toronto improves its D, if Petry can find his form. I think he would help the Leaf's chances to win at least one playoff round Habs get a top-4 D at a lesser cap and term and a RD prospect. In the short-term, fills Weber's spot (better than Savard) although from LD. If this one can be done, it opens the way for other trades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Petry has been an absolute catastrophe this season. This is very frustrating, because if he were even 3/4 or 2/3 of the guy he’s normally been, he could probably command a king’s random at the deadline. But his decline has been so massive and disastrous that I fear no team will be giving up major assets in order to take back 3 more years of at 6.5 mil per, for an offensive defenceman who is currently on a pace to core 6 points over 82 games. 🤮 Typical Habs luck that he couldn’t just slowly decline but had to go right off a cliff in a ‘tank year.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: is there any chance Habs could make this trade? To Toronto: * Jeff Petry (34yr, $6.25M->2025) To Montreal: * TJ Brody (31yr, $5,0M ->2024) * Topi Niemela (RD drafted #64 in 2020) I believe Toronto improves its D, if Petry can find his form. I think he would help the Leaf's chances to win at least one playoff round Habs get a top-4 D at a lesser cap and term and a RD prospect. In the short-term, fills Weber's spot (better than Savard) although from LD. If this one can be done, it opens the way for other trades I just don't see Toronto taking on any bigger contracts, they don't have much flexibility and Campbell is a UFA after this year and will get a significant raise as the Leafs really like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Then here are my four (4) "rebuilding" trades for the Habs to get: * another 1st round draft pick * another 2nd round pick * two other 3rd round pick * a forward prospect #1 To Edmonton: Ben Chiarot (LD $3.5M/1y) + SalaryCap relief to make it work for the Oilers To Montreal: Raphaël Lavoie & 1st2022 =>Edmonton solidifies cup chances #2 To New York Rangers: Tyler Toffoli (RW $4.25/3yr) To Montreal: Filip Chytil (LC $2.3M/2yr) + 2nd2022 => Rangers improve core forward group, make room for center prospects #3 To Nashville: Wideman To Montreal: Benning => Predators improve over Benning at the same cap hit #4 To Las Vegas: Kulak (LD $1.85M/1yr) + cap relief to make it work for the Knights To Montreal: Martinez(LD $5.25M/3yr) + 3nd2022 => Vegas get a depth LD, cap room for when Eichel is ready to play and get rid of an aging D on a bad contract => Alec Martinez can use Weber's spot, or (more likely) retire a Hab on LTIR. If he can play, he can be a #4D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: is there any chance Habs could make this trade? To Toronto: * Jeff Petry (34yr, $6.25M->2025) To Montreal: * TJ Brody (31yr, $5,0M ->2024) * Topi Niemela (RD drafted #64 in 2020) I believe Toronto improves its D, if Petry can find his form. I think he would help the Leaf's chances to win at least one playoff round Habs get a top-4 D at a lesser cap and term and a RD prospect. In the short-term, fills Weber's spot (better than Savard) although from LD. If this one can be done, it opens the way for other trades Makes no sense for Toronto, Brodie is younger, cheaper and currently playing at a much higher level than Petry. Even if Petry finds his best form (which is not assured), he's a very small upgrade for Toronto, at the cost of a prospect who looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Would the Oilers really give up Lavoie and a first for (the current version of) Chiarot, even if we retain salary? Lavoie could be a solid bottom-six C, though. And why do we give up Wideman for Benning, who is also a UFA at the end of the year? I don't see what we gain with this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Why are we taking on all that money on Martinez, who is old and doesn't fit a rebuild... to get a third rounder??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.