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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr
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9 hours ago, tomh009 said:

More likely summer so that the other team can plan for managing the longer-term cap hit.

a team looking for a sweat and guts 3rd liner to give its roster some character and that can absorb the contract: trading bad contract for bad contract.

Without looking at Cap Friendly, off the top of my head (so cap may not work): Edmonton, Vancouver, Nashville come to mind

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19 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

a team looking for a sweat and guts 3rd liner to give its roster some character and that can absorb the contract: trading bad contract for bad contract.

Without looking at Cap Friendly, off the top of my head (so cap may not work): Edmonton, Vancouver, Nashville come to mind

 

Edmonton and Vancouver are in long-term cap trouble so those two can be crossed off.

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Jake Allen: This has probably been discussed in the past but since he's soon returning from injury, if Carey Price stays with us, not guaranteed due to knee issues, and with next year being a rebuilding year do you think we trade Jake Allen or keep him? 

 

There seems to be a number of teams needing a goalie and I think Jake still has a pretty good reputation. 

 

If we did trade him what do you think we could get for him? Would it be worth it or is he our potential #1 next year? 

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If the Habs were to trade Allen, the return wouldn't be great.  Maybe a third-round pick to match what Bergevin gave up to get him?  Goalies rarely fetch much in trades and he's not having a great season which probably offsets the fact he's on a better contract now than he was when Montreal acquired him.  Is a mid-rounder worth losing the insurance policy?  It depends on how you think they plan to approach next season - is it a rebuilding year or if they do free up money and try to make a splash in free agency, are they trying to win sooner than later?  Or are there enough veteran free agents that they'd be content with trying to sign a new one in July?

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If I was the GM I would keep him especially in light of what you say would be a likely return. 

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On 3/2/2022 at 9:29 AM, alfredoh2009 said:

I think this trade proposal with Dallas makes sense (sorry if it has been posted before):

To Dallas: Petry ($6.25M/'til2025)

To Montreal: Radulov ($6.25M/UFA'22) Jack Bar and 2nd 2023 (which can be conditional to Dallas making the playoffs this year or winning the first round this year)

 

Dallas gets a replacement to Klingberg for next season at a lesser price and with their D depth can shelter Petry

 

Habs get a promising RD and an ok draft pick next year, plus they get some cap room to sign UFA(s) this summer

 

I am updating my trade proposal based on Blair's post on Klingberg

On 2/24/2022 at 7:40 PM, dlbalr said:

 

Sounds like 8 x $7.875M was his latest ask.

 

How about:

To Dallas: Petry ($6.25M) and Allen ($2.85M)

 

To Montreal: Klingberg ($4.25M, maybe $8M next year) Holtby ($2M/pending UFA) and Jack Bar

 

Dallas gets a solid backup goalie for the cup run, Petry will probably do well in Dallas where he would be a 2nd pairing RD. He is also a more affordable contract than Klingberg

 

Montreal gets a promising RD prospect, clears cap room to re-sign Klingberg who would become their top pair RD. Holtby and Hammond give them options for next year

 

DAL is only using $4,088,860 of the $6,416,667 LTIR available. If my understanding is correct, they can fit the new contracts this season

 

Edited by alfredoh2009
added LTIR note
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On 2/16/2022 at 12:16 PM, dlbalr said:

Montour 1 for 1 doesn't make a lot of sense for the Habs though, Chiarot has more trade value.  Nutivaara makes a bit more sense to match money although he's on LTIR at the moment.  Don't discount Frank Vatrano as a salary offset, he has been scratched before and has a limited role.

 

If the Dallas/Montreal trade happens, this other one would complement it well to complete part of the defense transformation to make room for the LD prospects:

 

To FLA: Chiarot

 

To Montreal: 1st round draft pick 2023 and Nutivaara ($2.7M/pending UFA currently on LTIR)

 

Habs get a 1st for Chiarot and the signing rights to an NHL calibre RD. A solid 3rd pairing RD if my read on his stats is correct

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16 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am updating my trade proposal based on Blair's post on Klingberg

 

How about:

To Dallas: Petry ($6.25M) and Allen ($2.85M)

 

To Montreal: Klingberg ($4.25M, maybe $8M next year) Holtby ($2M/pending UFA) and Jack Bar

 

Dallas gets a solid backup goalie for the cup run, Petry will probably do well in Dallas where he would be a 2nd pairing RD. He is also a more affordable contract than Klingberg

 

Montreal gets a promising RD prospect, clears cap room to re-sign Klingberg who would become their top pair RD. Holtby and Hammond give them options for next year

 

DAL is only using $4,088,860 of the $6,416,667 LTIR available. If my understanding is correct, they can fit the new contracts this season

 

You need to leave some wiggle room for recalls with LTIR as well.  They have $1.658M to work with right now (the number you're citing is a projection of LTIR money used for the entire season, not a current snapshot) but are adding $2.85M in that swap and with LTIR, there's no daily proration of salaries so it doesn't work money-wise.  Not sure they'd want Allen either - Oettinger and Holtby have both been better so Allen would be their #3 this season. 

 

Montreal also shouldn't be the team giving Klingberg that contract.  He's not worth that money which is why Dallas has balked at signing him.

 

5 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If the Dallas/Montreal trade happens, this other one would complement it well to complete part of the defense transformation to make room for the LD prospects:

 

To FLA: Chiarot

 

To Montreal: 1st round draft pick 2023 and Nutivaara ($2.7M/pending UFA currently on LTIR)

 

Habs get a 1st for Chiarot and the signing rights to an NHL calibre RD. A solid 3rd pairing RD if my read on his stats is correct

 

Not sure Nutivaara is someone the new regime would want to keep (he's a 6/7 guy) so the rights don't matter much but that one is plausible if there's enough of a market for Chiarot to garner a first-round pick.

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Jack Bar is a fifth round pick who is not doing anything of note in the NCAA. 

 

klingberg is a pending UFA and Holtby is a pending UFA as well. 

 

Why?

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I trusted this scouting report ?!

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/06/15/jack-bar-scouting-report/

 

"Bar plays a strong all-around game and has the size and skating ability to play in the NHL. He does almost everything well, but there is a lack of a real stand-out skill here. That may limit his ability at the next level but he should still be able to develop into a top-four defenceman who eats minutes and can compliment a more skilled partner. Bar’s game is reminiscent of Brayden McNabb. However, this is a stylistic comparison only and not one based on skill and ability."

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23 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I trusted this scouting report ?!

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/06/15/jack-bar-scouting-report/

 

"Bar plays a strong all-around game and has the size and skating ability to play in the NHL. He does almost everything well, but there is a lack of a real stand-out skill here. That may limit his ability at the next level but he should still be able to develop into a top-four defenceman who eats minutes and can compliment a more skilled partner. Bar’s game is reminiscent of Brayden McNabb. However, this is a stylistic comparison only and not one based on skill and ability."

 

Which is now a year old and he's not shown progression since moving up to the NCAA.

 

It happens.  He was good in the USHL.  His skill is not translating to the next level (and the NHL will be two more levels up from where he is). 


It happens.... 224 players were drafted last year, the vast majority won't make the NHL.  When you are evaluating one year after the draft, you ask... has the player progressed or regressed from one year ago, and you want to avoid those who are not progressing.

 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Jack Bar is a fifth round pick who is not doing anything of note in the NCAA. 

 

klingberg is a pending UFA and Holtby is a pending UFA as well. 

 

Why?

 

That was my immediate thought, Montreal get's virtually nothing from this trade. Klingberg will sign with the highest bidder which is unlikely to be Montreal.  Surely Montreal can do better in a Petry trade and if they can't then just hang on to him. 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

If the Dallas/Montreal trade happens, this other one would complement it well to complete part of the defense transformation to make room for the LD prospects:

 

To FLA: Chiarot

 

To Montreal: 1st round draft pick 2023 and Nutivaara ($2.7M/pending UFA currently on LTIR)

 

Habs get a 1st for Chiarot and the signing rights to an NHL calibre RD. A solid 3rd pairing RD if my read on his stats is correct

 

I think Montreal would happily take a 1st in 2023 and an expiring contract for Chiarot.  I would do this deal and I think Chiarot's value is likely just a wee bit higher after last night.  Scoring 2 goals against the hottest team in the NHL including the OT winner tells other teams he is healthy and ready to go. 

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What is Nutivaara's injury and could he be back this season.

 

Didn't the Leafs trade for Riley Nash who was injured at the time of the deal but played two playoff games last year?

Could we flip Nutivaara for like a late pick after making the deal?  or is he out for the year and its just an expiring contract?

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13 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

That was my immediate thought, Montreal get's virtually nothing from this trade. Klingberg will sign with the highest bidder which is unlikely to be Montreal.  Surely Montreal can do better in a Petry trade and if they can't then just hang on to him. 


sorry about that, I was misled 

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7 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:


sorry about that, I was misled 

 

misled?  Don't pin this on me. 

 

Even if Jack Bar was progressing, i still had him as a mid-second rounder a year ago.... I would not trade Petry for a 2nd rounder and two pending UFAs.   He's worth more than that. 

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Just now, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

No worries, trade proposals are fun to read, I haven't suggested anything better. 


I agree with the fun part. I do not take myself seriously on these proposals, I am just a fan

 

but I do a minimum of fact checking, looking at some credible aimes like Capfriendly, LWOS, etc

 

I have learned sooo much from the feedback on this forum; but it is getting trickier to keep it fun :( 

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46 minutes ago, Commandant said:

What is Nutivaara's injury and could he be back this season.

 

Didn't the Leafs trade for Riley Nash who was injured at the time of the deal but played two playoff games last year?

Could we flip Nutivaara for like a late pick after making the deal?  or is he out for the year and its just an expiring contract?

 

The Leafs did do that.  I haven't seen anything recent on Nutivaara but a while back, it was stated that there was a chance he could be back this season.  But is he good enough of a defenceman for a team to make that type of deal?  A year ago, Nash was still viewed as a good checker that could play some tough defensive minutes.  Nutivaara is a 6th/7th D and an acquiring team would probably have him a slot or two lower.  I'm not sure there's one that would flip a conditional seventh based on playoff GP for him.

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2 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

The Leafs did do that.  I haven't seen anything recent on Nutivaara but a while back, it was stated that there was a chance he could be back this season.  But is he good enough of a defenceman for a team to make that type of deal?  A year ago, Nash was still viewed as a good checker that could play some tough defensive minutes.  Nutivaara is a 6th/7th D and an acquiring team would probably have him a slot or two lower.  I'm not sure there's one that would flip a conditional seventh based on playoff GP for him.

 

Thats probably true, even at 1/2 retained (and since its an expiring contract, we could do that) his value is pretty low. 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I agree with the fun part. I do not take myself seriously on these proposals, I am just a fan

 

but I do a minimum of fact checking, looking at some credible aimes like Capfriendly, LWOS, etc

 

I have learned sooo much from the feedback on this forum; but it is getting trickier to keep it fun :( 

 

The bolded puts you ahead of a lot of people.

 

The unfortunate reality is in a season like this where most teams are capped out, trade proposals require a lot of math.  It's often more about that than the return itself which isn't fun.  The uncertain economic situation for the league over the next few years makes it hard for teams to bring in players with big contracts for multiple years.  It's easier to add Petry's deal when the Upper Limit goes up $3M per year.  Teams will a lot more hesitant to do so when it might go up $3M total over the next three years combined and that's the likelier situation.

 

I've sort of shifted my focus from thinking of trade proposals with specific players to trade frameworks.  Rather than get bogged down in trying to find the right prospect in the right situation where he could be pried away, focus on tiers of prospects.  You've mentioned Jack Bar specifically - what about just saying a 'B' or 'C' prospect?  (I sense you have him as a B when he may be more of a C.)  Try thinking of it that way in more of a general term.  That may cut down on the research time and spare some of the frustration in the process.

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19 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

The bolded puts you ahead of a lot of people.

 

The unfortunate reality is in a season like this where most teams are capped out, trade proposals require a lot of math.  It's often more about that than the return itself which isn't fun.  The uncertain economic situation for the league over the next few years makes it hard for teams to bring in players with big contracts for multiple years.  It's easier to add Petry's deal when the Upper Limit goes up $3M per year.  Teams will a lot more hesitant to do so when it might go up $3M total over the next three years combined and that's the likelier situation.

 

I've sort of shifted my focus from thinking of trade proposals with specific players to trade frameworks.  Rather than get bogged down in trying to find the right prospect in the right situation where he could be pried away, focus on tiers of prospects.  You've mentioned Jack Bar specifically - what about just saying a 'B' or 'C' prospect?  (I sense you have him as a B when he may be more of a C.)  Try thinking of it that way in more of a general term.  That may cut down on the research time and spare some of the frustration in the process.

 

thanks for the feedback!

 

I like doing the "research", it calms me down to look at hockey stats and projections than to look at work spreadsheets and programming code.

 

I understand that Gorton's goal is to transform the organization and not anymore on roster moves. Hughes has said something similar, so you are right about frameworks. But that philosophical high-level stuff is not as much fun to do as googling for stats and reports and to sort it in a way to make an argument for/against a roster move

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:


I agree with the fun part. I do not take myself seriously on these proposals, I am just a fan

 

but I do a minimum of fact checking, looking at some credible aimes like Capfriendly, LWOS, etc

 

I have learned sooo much from the feedback on this forum; but it is getting trickier to keep it fun :( 

 

For the record, my responses are just my opinion.  

 

I don't mean them to take your fun out of this, if that's what it's doing.  

 

I do appreciate that you bring something to discuss, its better than coming here and not having new posts. I'm just trying to respond with what I think of the offer... and I certainly don't think my opinion is in any way definitive, its just my opinion.

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