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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr
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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yeah. I think trading away out first pick next year should be a firing offence of any management team,

Is not the point, IF want to get #2 pick, what would be needed....too much most think and i cant disagree.

But, i think is 1 in a 1,000 chance get #1 pick again (or worse odds?). 

I simply want 2 top skilled kids from the 4 1st round picks in 2022 ad 23, and if can do that in one draft, is worth exploring?

So if Habs do mediocre, most likely will end up pick picking outside top 5 or 10. And i might forgo that and grab #2 now and start developing 2 blue chip prospects now (bird in hand...).

 

And if Habs did horrible and then won lottery again, how much fun would that be, you would be tearing apart Habs Mgmt like never have before (if is possible:D).

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

What's in it for Ottawa?  They said if they're moving their pick, they want win-now impact talent.  They don't get that in this trade.  They get a late first rounder, an expected future late first-rounder, and a young player who is trending towards bust territory and might be a serviceable fourth liner.  They've made a bunch of picks the last few years so they're not lacking for prospect depth.  Why pass up the chance at an impact prospect for some depth guys?

 

If Montreal picks 7th next year, do you want them accepting this type of offer in a trade?  If no, you can't think Ottawa - or any other team you're hoping to find a top-10 pick with - is going to accept a quantity for quality deal.  These trades simply don't happen.  The Habs are not finding a way to add another top-10 pick this year without losing a core young asset (Suzuki, Caufield, or next year's unprotected first).  That's just the way it is.  

 

Poehling is not suited to play in St-Louis' system. Based on his trajectory so far, he is not a bust yet but had a decent year in a pitiful team.

 

image.png

 

He played more games, solidified his FO% and showed he was learning. He seems like a guy better suited for OTT's style. 

 

adding another player instead of one of the 1st round picks may be better, but I do not know the Sens' needs enough to propose one.

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6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Poehling is not suited to play in St-Louis' system. Based on his trajectory so far, he is not a bust yet but had a decent year in a pitiful team.

 

image.png

 

He played more games, solidified his FO% and showed he was learning. He seems like a guy better suited for OTT's style. 

 

adding another player instead of one of the 1st round picks may be better, but I do not know the Sens' needs enough to propose one.

 

You may or may not be right about Poehling but a team isn't going to pay higher-end value with the hope that he'll become a 3C down the road.  He's a depth fourth liner right now and his trade value will be as such.  If the Habs traded him independently, they'd be lucky to get a third-round pick.  He's not a key asset in a trade for a top draft pick.

 

As for what player to substitute in, there are only two that carry top-ten value - Suzuki and Caufield.  There are no others that come close to that type of value.  Unless you're substituting one of them in there (and that's not advisable for Montreal to do), that seventh pick is off the table.  They are not trading for another top-10 pick this year no matter how much you're hoping that a combination of three or four lesser assets will somehow convince a GM to do it.  There's a reason these types of trades don't happen - it's because they only make sense for the team acquiring the high draft pick.

 

I'll ask you again, if the shoe was on the other foot and Montreal is in the 7 slot next season, would you want them to take a package of lesser assets for that pick?  If the answer is no, you can't turn around and expect or even hope other teams will want to do that.  

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7 hours ago, dlbalr said:

[...]

I'll ask you again, if the shoe was on the other foot and Montreal is in the 7 slot next season, would you want them to take a package of lesser assets for that pick?  If the answer is no, you can't turn around and expect or even hope other teams will want to do that.  

 

I keep thinking of this:

 

394418392_5cd33b3212_b.jpg

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4 hours ago, dlbalr said:

As for the rest of the question?  Would you want the Habs to do it or not?

 

I live in Ottawa, I have formed my opinion on the Sens by talking to their fans, going to some of their games, listening to sports radio and sometimes looking at their team stats.

 

If the Habs were on the Sens side: small market, considering a move to a new building, trying to re-build their fan base and re-building the trust of their roster in their potential to win a cup in Ottawa:

* a potential 3C centre good in traffic, able to paly in a chippy game, with a mean streak in his game: Poehling looks fine

* Poehling is cheap

* Two late first rounders would cost less over time. Dorion has been successful in finding quality in the draft

* two late picks vs a high pick is more likely to give them what they need, at a reasonable price

* swapping a late pick for a roster player would work if term, cap space and type of play aligns with their brand

 

I still don't know what roster player would fit an organization like the Sens if I was on their side; but I can see a trade being possible

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I don't think the Sens take that trade. 

 

Quantity does not replace Quality.  You don't give up a top 10 pick for a 3rd line centre (at best) and some late first rounders.  

There is no teams that do this, even when Burke traded up in the first he gave high end prospects and pieces.  

You can't say Poehling, Calgary's pick, the 33rd overall, and a roster player and turn it into a top 10 pick.  GMs just don't do that. 

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7 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I live in Ottawa, I have formed my opinion on the Sens by talking to their fans, going to some of their games, listening to sports radio and sometimes looking at their team stats.

 

If the Habs were on the Sens side: small market, considering a move to a new building, trying to re-build their fan base and re-building the trust of their roster in their potential to win a cup in Ottawa:

* a potential 3C centre good in traffic, able to paly in a chippy game, with a mean streak in his game: Poehling looks fine

* Poehling is cheap

* Two late first rounders would cost less over time. Dorion has been successful in finding quality in the draft

* two late picks vs a high pick is more likely to give them what they need, at a reasonable price

* swapping a late pick for a roster player would work if term, cap space and type of play aligns with their brand

 

I still don't know what roster player would fit an organization like the Sens if I was on their side; but I can see a trade being possible

 

No team values Poehling as a current 3C.  He's at a comparable level to Dylan Gambrell in terms of what his value is at the moment, a player who is on the fringes of the NHL.  He might get there but Ottawa isn't going to accept him as 3C value in a trade.  He has no value in the context of a trade like this, he's a throw-in at best.

 

Two late first-rounders do not have the same value as a top-ten pick.  Not even close.

 

You do know what roster players it will take for your proposal to make sense - Caufield or Suzuki.  That's the full list.  A viable trade for that #7 pick simply does not exist between the two teams; Ottawa isn't taking a collection of lesser assets for a high pick.  Neither is Seattle, Columbus, or any other team you think may be willing to do so despite it making no sense for them.  When you have a chance to draft in the top ten, you don't trade it away for lesser assets.  It just doesn't happen.

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4 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

No team values Poehling as a current 3C.  He's at a comparable level to Dylan Gambrell in terms of what his value is at the moment, a player who is on the fringes of the NHL.  He might get there but Ottawa isn't going to accept him as 3C value in a trade.  He has no value in the context of a trade like this, he's a throw-in at best.

 

Two late first-rounders do not have the same value as a top-ten pick.  Not even close.

 

You do know what roster players it will take for your proposal to make sense - Caufield or Suzuki.  That's the full list.  A viable trade for that #7 pick simply does not exist between the two teams; Ottawa isn't taking a collection of lesser assets for a high pick.  Neither is Seattle, Columbus, or any other team you think may be willing to do so despite it making no sense for them.  When you have a chance to draft in the top ten, you don't trade it away for lesser assets.  It just doesn't happen.

 

ok, we have beaten this discussion to the end :)

 

thanks, I always appreciate this back and forth with you.

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If Price is not returning next year maybe we can take on Mrazek from the leafs in exchange for some of their picks or prospects?

 

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Two years of Montembeault-level performance but at a cap hit of almost $4M? Would it really be worth it?

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55 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Two years of Montembeault-level performance but at a cap hit of almost $4M? Would it really be worth it?

 

I don't think it's a bad idea. That's assuming Price is on LTIR and not available and the return you get from the Leafs.  Mrazek didn't have a good year but I think he is a definitely an upgrade over Montembeault. He only has 2 years left and it would buy some time for the young Hab goalies in the system to develop. Not a bad idea and the return would depend on how desperate the Leafs are to gain some cap room. 

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If Price is done, it’s not a bad idea.  I would suspect the biggest issue is Toronto won’t want to give Montreal anything substantial enough to make it worthwhile.  I agree with Commandant that a 1st is a starting point, unless a good prospect.  I just don’t see Toronto giving that to Montreal, another team maybe.

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Mrazek didn't have a good year but I think he is a definitely an upgrade over Montembeault. He only has 2 years left and it would buy some time for the young Hab goalies in the system to develop.

Mrazek of three years ago was better (.914) but this past season he could only manage 0.888, worse than Montembeault. Mrazek is on a downslope, Montembeault might yet have a chance to improve. So, I don't see him as an upgrade, for sure, and potentially worse.

 

A (late) first-rounder might be worth that, if it's for next year's draft. Just don't assume that it's going to be a goaltending upgrade.

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I don't think it's a bad idea. That's assuming Price is on LTIR and not available and the return you get from the Leafs.  Mrazek didn't have a good year but I think he is a definitely an upgrade over Montembeault. He only has 2 years left and it would buy some time for the young Hab goalies in the system to develop. Not a bad idea and the return would depend on how desperate the Leafs are to gain some cap room. 

Maybe they could get the Leafs first ... err ... 2023 first ... err ... 2024 first ... OK ... err 2022 2nd ... OK, OK ... 2022 ... ah, ah, ah ... 7th

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59 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Mrazek of three years ago was better (.914) but this past season he could only manage 0.888, worse than Montembeault. Mrazek is on a downslope, Montembeault might yet have a chance to improve. So, I don't see him as an upgrade, for sure, and potentially worse.

 

A (late) first-rounder might be worth that, if it's for next year's draft. Just don't assume that it's going to be a goaltending upgrade.

If you’re taking a player with a 1st round pick/equivalent prospect as a sweetener, I don’t think anyone should expect that player to be an upgrade on anyone.  Is there a chance?  Yes, but an extremely slim one. 

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Price’s interview yesterday suggested that he wouldn’t know how his knee is until later in the summer. I assume this means too late for the main UFA period.

 

It’s going to be fascinating to see what Hugh-Gort do on the G file. It’s a bit of a managerial nightmare, really. 

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39 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Price’s interview yesterday suggested that he wouldn’t know how his knee is until later in the summer. I assume this means too late for the main UFA period.

 

It’s going to be fascinating to see what Hugh-Gort do on the G file. It’s a bit of a managerial nightmare, really. 


With Primeau playing above expectations right now I wonder if they give him a split with Allen?

 

Primeau didn’t look great in the NHL this season but we had issues all over the ice. 
 

Does his playoff performance make HuGo consider it?

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42 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Price’s interview yesterday suggested that he wouldn’t know how his knee is until later in the summer. I assume this means too late for the main UFA period.

 

It’s going to be fascinating to see what Hugh-Gort do on the G file. It’s a bit of a managerial nightmare, really. 

Yeah. It's such a huge unknown, there is no good solution. Either you are unnecessarily loading up on goalies, or you end up with not enough goalies.

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Just now, Prime Minister Koivu said:

With Primeau playing above expectations right now I wonder if they give him a split with Allen?

 

Primeau didn’t look great in the NHL this season but we had issues all over the ice. 
 

Does his playoff performance make HuGo consider it?

I don't think a solid AHL playoff run is enough yet. He needs more time in the AHL if he's going to be an NHL goalie.

 

I expect that we'll start with Allen and Montembeault, given the Price situation. Maybe we'll have goaltending issues again but that should make the tank-again crowd happy.

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23 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I don't think a solid AHL playoff run is enough yet. He needs more time in the AHL if he's going to be an NHL goalie.

 

I expect that we'll start with Allen and Montembeault, given the Price situation. Maybe we'll have goaltending issues again but that should make the tank-again crowd happy.

agreed, a three goalie rotation with Montembeault passing the mop in blowouts

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25 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I don't think a solid AHL playoff run is enough yet. He needs more time in the AHL if he's going to be an NHL goalie.

 

He has one more waiver-exempt season and has to really have a consistent starting workload in the minors.  50 starts in the AHL, to me, has the most value from a development perspective so I'm with you, keep him in Laval.

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I mentioned trading for Sean Durzi a while back and the general consensus understandably seemed to be that he would be very expensive. 
 

I mentioned a logjam at RD for the Kings, with Brandt Clarke coming, along with Doughty, Roy, Stecher, and Durzi. So 2 there won’t be featured in the kings top 6, and Durzi likely played his way behind Doughty.

 

but I didn’t even mention another RD in the system, Jordan Spence. 21 years old, 42 points in 48 games in Laval. The biggest knock on him was originally his small stature though many sources have him up to 5’10 and 180. This past season has proven he can be extremely productive in a mens league. 
 

Now he won’t instantly step into a top 4 position like Durzi could, but would add some needed puck movement on the Habs back end. 
 

could he be a good target? 

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