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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Habs need to shit or get off the pot with Mailloux. 
 

Trade him or start pouring development resources into him. 
 

I think we should start doing everything we can to develop his game. The politics of it left with Bergevin. 

 

What are they supposed to do to develop his game, that they arent doing?

 

He was suspended in the OHL til January and no other league in the world was going to bypass that suspension and take him in.  The PR nightmare would have been a disaster for any league doing this.

 

So they had him train off ice.

 

Then he played on the team that has the best development in the CHL if not the world.  Where else would you want him, if not London?

 

Then he got hurt in a fight and his shoulder is messed up and he cant play.  So what resources can you put in other than surgery and rehab which are being done?

 

Heck given his injury, i will guess he is at development camp but not on the ice as he wont be ready yet.  Shoulder injuries are usually 6 months.

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Is the price paid by Dallas, about what it would take to get Weber off the books?

 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/stars-trade-ben-bishops-contract-to-sabres

 

im pretty sure Phoenix is in the same boat, and they probably need to reach the floor for a lot more years.

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4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is the price paid by Dallas, about what it would take to get Weber off the books?

 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/stars-trade-ben-bishops-contract-to-sabres

 

im pretty sure Phoenix is in the same boat, and they probably need to reach the floor for a lot more years.

 

That's what I am thinking, a later round draft pick.  If it was much more than that then might as well keep him on LTIR. 

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18 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Molson made the decision not to invite Mailloux to Montreal last year, he said so in a press conference.

 

I would be very surprise he is invited this summer

  I predict that MPP will be at the press conference this fall when the Habs announce that Mailloux will be attending training camp.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Peter Puck said:

  I predict that MPP will be at the press conference this fall when the Habs announce that Mailloux will be attending training camp.

 

 


I also hope so. I defended the kid in that infamous thread.

I want hi to be given the chance, but despite my bleeding heart on the matter I want the Habs to manage this hot potato in a way that works best for the team and well for the kid

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is the price paid by Dallas, about what it would take to get Weber off the books? ...

 

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

That's what I am thinking, a later round draft pick.  If it was much more than that then might as well keep him on LTIR. 

 

Without taking account of whether insurance coverage plays into either case ... Buffalo is getting a little over $1.4M of "free cap hit" (i.e., the cap hit is greater than the real $$$ salary they have to pay) for the one season remaining on Bishop's contract ... whoever takes on Weber's deal gets just shy of $25.5M in "free cap hit" over the next four seasons ... Bishop likely fits Buffalo's plans as I expect after next season they hope/expect to be adding to the roster ... Weber likely fits in Phoenix's plans as (a) their re-re-re-re-build is likely longer term than the Sabres, and (b) given their bandbox arena for the next few seasons they will be even less likely than previously to be much more than a "floor" team

 

All that to say, it seems like the "price" should not be that much more ... although I don't see keeping Weber on LTIR as an option Hughes would like unless the "cost" of moiving Weber's contract becomes prohibitive ... I even wonder if Hughes may not try to make it part of a somewhat bigger/hockey trade, moving out an active player as well (Armia?).

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

What are they supposed to do to develop his game, that they arent doing?

 

He was suspended in the OHL til January and no other league in the world was going to bypass that suspension and take him in.  The PR nightmare would have been a disaster for any league doing this.

 

So they had him train off ice.

 

Then he played on the team that has the best development in the CHL if not the world.  Where else would you want him, if not London?

 

Then he got hurt in a fight and his shoulder is messed up and he cant play.  So what resources can you put in other than surgery and rehab which are being done?

 

Heck given his injury, i will guess he is at development camp but not on the ice as he wont be ready yet.  Shoulder injuries are usually 6 months.


I have no idea but it seems like they haven’t even accepted the kid. Maybe it’s designed that way to avoid the PR stuff. 
 

My real point was either trade him or get behind him. 

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is the price paid by Dallas, about what it would take to get Weber off the books?

 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/stars-trade-ben-bishops-contract-to-sabres

 

im pretty sure Phoenix is in the same boat, and they probably need to reach the floor for a lot more years.

 

One has one year left, one has four years left.  It will cost more than that and Arizona doesn't need to add Weber to get to the floor.  Don't forget, they added Little who is on LTIR for two more seasons at the deadline.

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As I was doing my usual reading on the possible players available and what teams want to do, an idea struck me, and I’m sure I’ll get shredded for this proposal.

 

To Edmonton

Weber’s contract 

 

To Montreal

Puljujarvi

 

On the surface it doesn’t seem fair, but let’s dig a little deeper.  Edmonton is on cap hell, already basically saying they have a choice between Yamamoto and Puljujarvi, Puljujarvi being the odd man out.  They also want to re-sign Kane, who according to rumours will take $7m a season from the Oilers and $8m a season from anyone else.  Its also really complicated with his San Jose contract as well, but I’m ignoring that for now as it’s really as clear as mud to what’s going on there.  Everything from upheld termination, to reinstatement, to contract upheld and used to pay whatever team he signs with.  Yeah, it’s that clear.

 

The above trade gives $7.8m for 4 years from Weber on LTIR to pay Kane, so 4 years at $7m and the Oilers get to pocket about $800k.  Plus their roughly $7m in cap space for their other 5 players they need to re-sign.  Montreal gets a young player who never lived up to expectations, but can play NHL minutes, and still may pan out to be a top-6 forward with a change of scenery, even if it’s a long shot.

 

TL;DR

On the surface it look like Edmonton is over paying for a contract, when in actuality they are gaining Kane as well, or the ability to sign him.

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Edmonton could get at minimum a 2nd rounder on an offer sheet for Pulju.

 

I dont see why they do this.

 

And LTIR doesnt work the way you are describing.

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12 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Edmonton could get at minimum a 2nd rounder on an offer sheet for Pulju.

 

I dont see why they do this.

 

And LTIR doesnt work the way you are describing.

Kane is worth more than a 2nd round pick to the Oilers.  Without this, Edmonton has to move contracts to even have a shot at re-signing Kane, then they have to worry about enough players dressed to field a roster.  The trade has to be pitched as with this you get Kane as well which has to be worked out with Kane prior to the trade naturally, not just, overpay for this contract.

 

I’m also not sure what you mean LTIR doesn’t work the way I’m describing.  Teams are allowed to spend 110% of the cap as long as LTIR will make them

cap compliant, even in the off-season.  I’ve been reading a bunch of articles on how it works and I see nothing that says my proposal won’t be valid according to the CBA.  I’m not saying they’re right, I’m just saying I’ve seen nothing that says it not valid.

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25 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

As I was doing my usual reading on the possible players available and what teams want to do, an idea struck me, and I’m sure I’ll get shredded for this proposal.

 

To Edmonton

Weber’s contract 

 

To Montreal

Puljujarvi

 

On the surface it doesn’t seem fair, but let’s dig a little deeper.  Edmonton is on cap hell, already basically saying they have a choice between Yamamoto and Puljujarvi, Puljujarvi being the odd man out.  They also want to re-sign Kane, who according to rumours will take $7m a season from the Oilers and $8m a season from anyone else.  Its also really complicated with his San Jose contract as well, but I’m ignoring that for now as it’s really as clear as mud to what’s going on there.  Everything from upheld termination, to reinstatement, to contract upheld and used to pay whatever team he signs with.  Yeah, it’s that clear.

 

The above trade gives $7.8m for 4 years from Weber on LTIR to pay Kane, so 4 years at $7m and the Oilers get to pocket about $800k.  Plus their roughly $7m in cap space for their other 5 players they need to re-sign.  Montreal gets a young player who never lived up to expectations, but can play NHL minutes, and still may pan out to be a top-6 forward with a change of scenery, even if it’s a long shot.

 

TL;DR

On the surface it look like Edmonton is over paying for a contract, when in actuality they are gaining Kane as well, or the ability to sign him.

Edmonton can get picks or mon-nhl prospects easily for Puljujarvi, why would they give him away???

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

Edmonton can get picks or mon-nhl prospects easily for Puljujarvi, why would they give him away???

Again, to have the cap compliant space to sign Kane.  I doubt there’s many other LTIR contracts out there that gives the Oilers that ability, which are available.

 

Sure, they can trade Pujujarvi for picks or prospects and that would be better value for a return for him, but that doesn’t fill the hole left by Kane and Pujujarvi leaving.  At that point what’s more valuable, having Evandar Kane and losing Pujujarvi or losing Pujujarvi and having no replacement for either in the near future?  Overall, my proposal has Edmonton a stronger team for the near future.

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1 minute ago, TurdBurglar said:

Again, to have the cap compliant space to sign Kane.  I doubt there’s many other LTIR contracts out there that gives the Oilers that ability, which are available.

 

Sure, they can trade Pujujarvi for picks or prospects and that would be better value for a return for him, but that doesn’t fill the hole left by Kane and Pujujarvi leaving.  At that point what’s more valuable, having Evandar Kane and losing Pujujarvi or losing Pujujarvi and having no replacement for either in the near future?  Overall, my proposal has Edmonton a stronger team for the near future.

One has nothing to do with the

other. The only way the Weber contract benefits them if they sign Kane (by trading other players to clear cap room), and by some miracle Weber comes back in time for the playoffs and wouldn’t count agianst the cap.

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9 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

One has nothing to do with the

other. The only way the Weber contract benefits them if they sign Kane (by trading other players to clear cap room), and by some miracle Weber comes back in time for the playoffs and wouldn’t count agianst the cap.

Exactly, the Weber contract benefits them if they sign Kane, which is what this whole proposal is predicated on.  Also, the Oilers can spend 110% of the cap space in the off-season as long as LTIR can make them cap compliant to start the season.  Which they would be under the 110%, so no need to shed contracts to sign Kane with Weber’s contract in hand.  
 

I’ve seen nothing that indicates Weber will ever play another NHL game.  A few interviews from Bergevin saying they were hopeful and that is all.  There’s no indication anyone should expect Weber to play.  

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If LTIR worked that way, Weber's contract would be of high value around the league.  There's a reason the expectation is that the Habs will have to pay to move him - it's not because Weber's contract will bail a team out of cap trouble.  If it did, teams would be lining up to get him.  They're not.  This is not a viable trade scenario as a result.

 

To maximize the LTIR space, a team needs to be cap-compliant with the injured contract on the books before making the LTIR placement (get as close to the ceiling as possible, then put the player on LTIR, then add replacements).  That happens at the start of the season and there's no way Edmonton can be cap-compliant with Weber on the books at the start of the season.  That's why if he moves, it will be to a team that is nowhere near the cap that doesn't care if they have someone injured on it.

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3 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

Exactly, the Weber contract benefits them if they sign Kane ...

LTIR does not give teams extra cap space to spend on other players ... the AAV of the LTIR contract still counts 100% against the cap ... LTIR just allows the team to spend up to the AAV beyond the cap ceiling to replace the LTIR player ... all subject to the factors described by dlbair (above) ... and while it is 110% of the AAV in the off-season it is just the AAV in-season ... so adding Weber does nothing to help Edmonton re-sign Kane.

 

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3 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

Kane is worth more than a 2nd round pick to the Oilers.  Without this, Edmonton has to move contracts to even have a shot at re-signing Kane, then they have to worry about enough players dressed to field a roster.  The trade has to be pitched as with this you get Kane as well which has to be worked out with Kane prior to the trade naturally, not just, overpay for this contract.

 

I’m also not sure what you mean LTIR doesn’t work the way I’m describing.  Teams are allowed to spend 110% of the cap as long as LTIR will make them

cap compliant, even in the off-season.  I’ve been reading a bunch of articles on how it works and I see nothing that says my proposal won’t be valid according to the CBA.  I’m not saying they’re right, I’m just saying I’ve seen nothing that says it not valid.

 

I see DlBlair and GHT have already explained how LTIR works... 

 

Getting Weber does not help the Oilers to re-sign Kane, so again there is no reason to give up actual value to get Weber's contract. 

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8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

... so again there is no reason to give up actual value to get Weber's contract. 

 

Unless you are a team about to play to ECHL sized attendance numbers for a couple of seasons (at least) and want to spend as little ream money as possible ... at least we can hope so.

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36 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I see DlBlair and GHT have already explained how LTIR works... 

 

Getting Weber does not help the Oilers to re-sign Kane, so again there is no reason to give up actual value to get Weber's contract. 

 

Yup, there is no benefit to the Oilers, doesn't increase their cap space.  If Weber goes anywhere, it will be Arizona who has to get to the cap floor, that's who it might benefit. 

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On 5/13/2022 at 6:44 PM, alfredoh2009 said:

To VGK:Petry ($6.25M until 2025) + Byron ($3.4M until 2023) = $9.65M cap hit

To MTL: Dadonov($5M until 2023) + Martinez ($5M until 2024) + Patrick ($1.2M until 2023) = 11.2M cap hit

[...]Montreal gets rid of Petry's contract, gets a veteran LD that can play in the top-4 while the Habs prospects develop. Dadonov can be flipped at the trade deadline and until then can play with Suzuki and Caufield. If I am not mistaken, Dadonov is a touch better than Hoffman. Patrick can be buried in the AHL.

 

=====================

In addition, Weber's contract could be moved to Vegas. It would give the VGK some LTIR over-cap space to be able to resign their captain Reilly Smith. Weber's LTIR keeps their window open.

 

 

 

I didn't get the trade right, the Petry for Martinez didn't make sense but I was trying to shave some cap space for VGK's

 

I am happy with today's trade, like I had mentioned Dadonov can play with Suzuki and Caufield and be flipped at the trade deadline. Weber's higher cap hit allows the VGK to over the cap a bit deeper.

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23 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I didn't get the trade right, the Petry for Martinez didn't make sense but I was trying to shave some cap space for VGK's

 

I am happy with today's trade, like I had mentioned Dadonov can play with Suzuki and Caufield and be flipped at the trade deadline. Weber's higher cap hit allows the VGK to over the cap a bit deeper.

 

I like the trade as well ... getting an asset for a player who will never play again and eliminate years of possible LTIR is briliant

 

From GK's perspective the deal clears Dadnov's AAV from the cap and adds a contract that can be LTIR'd if needed ... an LTIR contract in and of itself adds no cap space for a team ... and I'm betting Weber moves to Arizona or another team that wants "free cap hit" with the "cost" being another player (plus picks/prospects) that GK may not want to lose but will in order to further reduce their cap hit.

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Love how Anderson plays, but Habs will be crap for 2 or more years and they way Anderson plays, he seems to get injured or banged up quite often. And if Hughes can get a nice haul, i wouldnt be opposed to him being dealt, simply given where Habs are in reshaping team.

Would be curious to know what might be being offered up for him?

 

Would Anderson and pick #26 to Devils be enough for pick #2? Not proposing, just thinking out loud.

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14 minutes ago, DON said:

Love how Anderson plays, but Habs will be crap for 2 or more years and they way Anderson plays, he seems to get injured or banged up quite often. And if Hughes can get a nice haul, i wouldnt be opposed to him being dealt, simply given where Habs are in reshaping team.

Would be curious to know what might be being offered up for him?

 

Would Anderson and pick #26 to Devils be enough for pick #2? Not proposing, just thinking out loud.

Maybe not NJD but SEA and PHI would be better fits for Anderson.

 

I wonder if Josh played for Trotorella in CBJ?

 

SEA needs to start winning more and Anderson could easily be a fan favorite in Seattle

 

Those picks are still top-5 and if Nemec or Jiricek drop... that would be perfect for the way I would like the Has to pick. Put any other top-5 would be a great pick for the Habs

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