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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr

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the Quebec "pure laine" factor is not a thing with Hugh-Gort. He won't be tempted by that

 

PLD is probably doing what others have done, using MTL to inflate their contract offers and then signing with another club than MTL.

 

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15 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

the Quebec "pure laine" factor is not a thing with Hugh-Gort. He won't be tempted by that

 

PLD is probably doing what others have done, using MTL to inflate their contract offers and then signing with another club than MTL.

 

Again publicly saying he wants out just 1.5years after being traded to Jets and 2 years before he is a free agent, bugs me.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Interesting discussion in this thread lately.

 

 

Obviously we should see whether we bag a high-ceiling C at the draft before considering any moves relating to PLD. Indeed, we appear to be in the pole position here - there is no need to rush things at all.

 

At the same time, some fans affect an attitude of indifference about Dubois - a big, strong, fast, 70-point C just entering his prime - saying things like “we already have Dach,” or “he’s a problem child and I don’t want him,” or, more realistically, “he will command a big cap hit.”

 

I love Dach, but we don’t yet know for certain that he will prove to be a healthy, consistent top-6 C in the same league as PLD. And even if he is a bona-ride #2C, which I suspect he is, I can’t see why we wouldn’t want a Suze-PLD-Dach configuration down the middle. That is Cup-calibre depth at C. Praise God. And we can always move Dach to W if we want to spread things around. What’s not to like?

 

As for cap considerations, I dunno. I’ve always been a “get the guy and sort out the cap later” type. Toronto can afford Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Reilly. Surely we can afford Suzuki, PLD and Dach FFS 🤷‍♂️

 

 

I tend to agree. A lot will depend on goaltending, though - and on staying healthy. 

 

 

I’m not super crazy about the idea of making a habit of “Dach” style trades. There is a certain danger of assuming that, because you hit a home run last time, you can do it again. There are a lot of teams out there that talk about finding “under-valued” young players, and there are only so many Kirby Dachs to go around. Usually if a team is giving up on a 22-year-old, it’s for a valid reason. It also has a faint whiff of the classic trap of trying to accelerate a rebuild.

 

Anyhow, it will all depend on the players involved - both the player we get, and the draft pick we’re foregoing. If it does happen, it will probably be someone we’re not aware of rather than a big name like Dubois.

If PLD is a gaurantee to be a 1a/1b type player, I’d be willing to move assets and sign him long term. I do have a concerns with giving up much for him (particularly with being a UFA in a year), or committing significant cap space (I think he’ll want between $7m-9m a year and can probably get closer to the $9m as a UFA.
 

what we don’t know yet whether he whether he will continue to be a streaky 50-60 point guy with an odd year close to 70 points ina  season, or a guy that going forward will be putting up 70+ points a season. He has not shown much consistency to date in his NHL career, and seems to always want to move to a better situation before proving himself - too much of a Drouin parallel.

 

with respect to Dach, I think it’s looking like a good deal right now, but we won’t know if it was the right move until another 3-4 years. If Nazar turns out to be a significantly better player we lost the deal. If we aren’t a solid playoff team by than and Nazar is equal or even slightly better than Dach , we lost the deal.

So I’m with you on not wanting to many deals like that. 

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Again publicly saying he wants out just 1.5years after being traded to Jets and 2 years before he is a free agent, bugs me.

Agreed. Just to much is a parallel of the entitled attitude that Drouin had before he actually proved himself, or accomplished anything.

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

Dubois isn't a 70-point C though.  His career high is 61 and the only reason he got there this season was the hot start.  It's crunch time for Winnipeg and he has responded with nine points in his last 20 games at the time it matters most with questions popping up about his compete level.  My concern with him is that he isn't as good as he's hyped up to be and not worth the contract he's bound to command based on that unsustained hot start.  He'd make this team better, no doubt, but he isn't as good as some are hyping him up to be.

 

I don't necessarily disagree. It's a question of how much you have to give up and how much you have to pay him.  He is still only 24 and has hit 25+ goals 3 times in his career.  I think we have a pretty good idea of what his floor is, just don't know what his ceiling will be. I am confident Hughes won't rush into anything. 

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Dubois isn't a 70-point C though.  His career high is 61 and the only reason he got there this season was the hot start.  It's crunch time for Winnipeg and he has responded with nine points in his last 20 games at the time it matters most with questions popping up about his compete level.  My concern with him is that he isn't as good as he's hyped up to be and not worth the contract he's bound to command based on that unsustained hot start.  He'd make this team better, no doubt, but he isn't as good as some are hyping him up to be.

Yep. ThTs the same concern I have - both for trading now, or overpaying when he is a UFA. If he only puts up 60 points next year (assuming he is still with the jets), and wants a big payday, I’d pass. If he genuinely wants to play in Montreal and wants to sign for around $6m after a d 60 point season, or around $5m for a 50 point season, than I’d be interested.


Everyone is hung up on his being French and his size and his POTENTIAL. But he has proven squat so far. For now I just see him a Drouin with size.

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

Agreed. Just to much is a parallel of the entitled attitude that Drouin had before he actually proved himself.

 

I don't agree. Drouin balked at being sent to the minors, refused to play for the minor league team for a while. Dubois never took it that far.  I don't begrudge an athlete trying to have some control over where live and play. Dubois didn't pout in Winnipeg this year. He got off to a great start and then slumped along with everyone else on the team. 

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2 hours ago, DON said:

So you think whoever trades for and resigns him will pay too much?

 

Big young french kid who says he wants to come home, Hughes would have to be tempted.

 

How much will he likely resign for? And am sure would ask for 8 years. 

 

 

I imagine he'll be asking for somewhere near 8x8.  That's not a contract I'd be advocating for the Habs to hand out at this time.  And if that seems like too much, an arbitration filing this summer likely gets him something starting with a 7 and UFA years always cost more than RFA years.

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41 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If PLD is a gaurantee to be a 1a/1b type player, I’d be willing to move assets and sign him long term. I do have a concerns with giving up much for him (particularly with being a UFA in a year), or committing significant cap space (I think he’ll want between $7m-9m a year and can probably get closer to the $9m as a UFA.
 

what we don’t know yet whether he whether he will continue to be a streaky 50-60 point guy with an odd year close to 70 points ina  season, or a guy that going forward will be putting up 70+ points a season. He has not shown much consistency to date in his NHL career, and seems to always want to move to a better situation before proving himself - too much of a Drouin parallel.

 

with respect to Dach, I think it’s looking like a good deal right now, but we won’t know if it was the right move until another 3-4 years. If Nazar turns out to be a significantly better player we lost the deal. If we aren’t a solid playoff team by than and Nazar is equal or even slightly better than Dach , we lost the deal.

So I’m with you on not wanting to many deals like that. 

 

35 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yep. ThTs the same concern I have - both for trading now, or overpaying when he is a UFA. If he only puts up 60 points next year (assuming he is still with the jets), and wants a big payday, I’d pass. If he genuinely wants to play in Montreal and wants to sign for around $6m after a d 60 point season, or around $5m for a 50 point season, than I’d be interested.


Everyone is hung up on his being French and his size and his POTENTIAL. But he has proven squat so far. For now I just see him a Drouin with size.


Suzuki is a 60 - 70 point centre making a bit under 8 million and is considered to be a very talented #1 centre. 
 

PLD putting up 60 points is comparable to Suzuki so that would certainly be a 1b centre scenario. Salary would surely be similar 7-7.5 million. 
 

Suzuki is 23 and PLD is 24 so again, comparable. 
 

What we should do depends on the draft, the cost of a trade vs. Waiting one year until UFA. We aren’t trading big assets for PLD - Florida’s first would be not hurt us if that was the cost. 

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3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

What we should do depends on the draft, the cost of a trade vs. Waiting one year until UFA. We aren’t trading big assets for PLD - Florida’s first would be not hurt us if that was the cost. 

 

I think what happens at the draft will go a long way in shaping Hughes's plans.  If they get lucky, move up and get a Fantilli or Carlsson or heaven forbid Bedard then any thoughts of getting Dubois might evaporate.  

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PLD has too many red flags (history of quitting on teams, spotty production) to move heaven and earth for him. There's no rush at this point in the rebuild - next year is the perfect time to add a big UFA. 

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4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 


Suzuki is a 60 - 70 point centre making a bit under 8 million and is considered to be a very talented #1 centre. 
 

PLD putting up 60 points is comparable to Suzuki so that would certainly be a 1b centre scenario. Salary would surely be similar 7-7.5 million. 
 

Suzuki is 23 and PLD is 24 so again, comparable. 
 

What we should do depends on the draft, the cost of a trade vs. Waiting one year until UFA. We aren’t trading big assets for PLD - Florida’s first would be not hurt us if that was the cost. 

Suzuki has put up the point with only around a third of a season with a hood winger, and has played with grunts for the most part. PLD’a linemates are Scheifele (over 30 goals), and Connor (close to 40). He has the lowest points total of the three, and also plays wotha norris candidate Dman. 
 

Suzuki is playing with rookies, AHL’ers and grunts. Eve though he is a year younger, he has shown more consistency and compete than PLD.

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5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

 

 

with respect to Dach, I think it’s looking like a good deal right now, but we won’t know if it was the right move until another 3-4 years. If Nazar turns out to be a significantly better player we lost the deal. If we aren’t a solid playoff team by than and Nazar is equal or even slightly better than Dach , we lost the deal.

So I’m with you on not wanting to many deals like that. 

 

Wise words re: Dach. A lot of fans act like that trade was a huge win, and certainly Dach has been a welcome addition, but a true assessment of the deal will ultimately depend on the variables you identify.

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58 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Suzuki has put up the point with only around a third of a season with a hood winger, and has played with grunts for the most part. PLD’a linemates are Scheifele (over 30 goals), and Connor (close to 40). He has the lowest points total of the three, and also plays wotha norris candidate Dman. 
 

Suzuki is playing with rookies, AHL’ers and grunts. Eve though he is a year younger, he has shown more consistency and compete than PLD.


Agree for sure that Suzuki should get more points when he has two good wingers for a season. Point totals are also inflated by a good PP so perhaps the Habs get one eventually. 

 

I don’t watch enough of PLD to comment thoroughly on his game but what I do know is that he is very aggressive on the boards and hunts pucks really well. He makes it possible for Connor and Scheifele to move - sort of how Dach gave Suzuki and Caufield more room the second he got there. 

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30 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Wise words re: Dach. A lot of fans act like that trade was a huge win, and certainly Dach has been a welcome addition, but a true assessment of the deal will ultimately depend on the variables you identify.

 

It does look like a win at this point as Dach has scored at about a 20 goal, 50+ point pace and has looked dominant at times.  The big question for me is Dach staying healthy as he does look somewhat injury prone. The contract at 3.3M for the next 3 years after this could look like a great bargain. I don't get the Nazar comparison as we have no idea who Montreal would have drafted but I believe we have been over that before. 

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On 4/6/2023 at 11:19 AM, DON said:

Again publicly saying he wants out just 1.5years after being traded to Jets and 2 years before he is a free agent, bugs me.

 

He hasnt publically said a thing.

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10 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He hasnt publically said a thing.

 

I agree, I think it's a case of the press running with a story because perhaps he told some friends he would like to play for the Habs one day.  I don't think you can crucify a guy for being a Habs fan. 

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14 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree, I think it's a case of the press running with a story because perhaps he told some friends he would like to play for the Habs one day.  I don't think you can crucify a guy for being a Habs fan. 

Hes also put together a good season and hasn't been a distraction at all.

It was his agent that planted that story about him wanting out of Winnipeg and who could blame him..

As for colombus, alot of players wanted to get away from Torts and maybe even kekalianan... The list is long from panarin and Duchene to brobo and Jones... heck even Anderson was dealt after he would only agree to a 1 year deal.

 

Dan Robertson called PLD a borderline dominant star after watching him live all season for what it worth... 

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19 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree, I think it's a case of the press running with a story because perhaps he told some friends he would like to play for the Habs one day.  I don't think you can crucify a guy for being a Habs fan. 

So think bit more than just shooting the shite with friends, not that i am all that keen about trading for him. But, would be an interesting addition, but obviously would be costly unless wait till next summer and still would be big contract if he has good year next season also.

 

According to Elliotte Friedman, the Montreal Canadiens and Winnipeg Jets have had, and will likely continue to have trade conversations about Pierre Luc-Dubois. Friedman noted in the latest 32 Thoughts podcast: “Jets have talked to the Canadiens on and off about Dubois, we know that Dubois is gonna end up there 95%, is there some way we can make a deal so the Canadiens get him earlier and we get something we want? They’ve talked about that.”

 

 It doesn’t take any detective work to understand why that connection is being made: Pat Brisson, Dubois’ agent, has communicated that his client would like to play in Montreal, and Dubois has reportedly communicated to the Jets that his intention is to leave as a free agent in two years' time. Many have speculated, then, that the Canadiens would attempt to acquire Dubois this summer, and it appears that that sort of speculation is grounded in reality.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/players/pierre_luc_dubois/488113

 

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17 minutes ago, DON said:

So think bit more than just shooting the shite with friends, not that i am all that keen about trading for him. But, would be an interesting addition, but obviously would be costly unless wait till next summer and still would be big contract if he has good year next season also.

 

According to Elliotte Friedman, the Montreal Canadiens and Winnipeg Jets have had, and will likely continue to have trade conversations about Pierre Luc-Dubois. Friedman noted in the latest 32 Thoughts podcast: “Jets have talked to the Canadiens on and off about Dubois, we know that Dubois is gonna end up there 95%, is there some way we can make a deal so the Canadiens get him earlier and we get something we want? They’ve talked about that.”

 

 It doesn’t take any detective work to understand why that connection is being made: Pat Brisson, Dubois’ agent, has communicated that his client would like to play in Montreal, and Dubois has reportedly communicated to the Jets that his intention is to leave as a free agent in two years' time. Many have speculated, then, that the Canadiens would attempt to acquire Dubois this summer, and it appears that that sort of speculation is grounded in reality.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/players/pierre_luc_dubois/488113

 

 

 "Dubois has reportedly communicated to the Jets that his intention is to leave as a free agent in two years' time."   Let's assume for a moment that he has communicated that privately to the Jets. Who do you have more respect for:

 

1 Johnny Gaudreau who led the Flames along giving them hope he would resign. Then he leaves and the Flames get nothing  or

 

2. Dubois who is upfront about it and gives Winnipeg plenty of time to get a decent return for his services. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

2. Dubois who is upfront about it and gives Winnipeg plenty of time to get a decent return for his services. 

 

 

Dont know anything about Gourdreau.

 

Nice spin on Dubois being such an thoughtful teammate.

 

"Got your back boys, but I just cant wait to get the hell out of here."

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7 hours ago, DON said:

So think bit more than just shooting the shite with friends, not that i am all that keen about trading for him. But, would be an interesting addition, but obviously would be costly unless wait till next summer and still would be big contract if he has good year next season also.

 

According to Elliotte Friedman, the Montreal Canadiens and Winnipeg Jets have had, and will likely continue to have trade conversations about Pierre Luc-Dubois. Friedman noted in the latest 32 Thoughts podcast: “Jets have talked to the Canadiens on and off about Dubois, we know that Dubois is gonna end up there 95%, is there some way we can make a deal so the Canadiens get him earlier and we get something we want? They’ve talked about that.”

 

 It doesn’t take any detective work to understand why that connection is being made: Pat Brisson, Dubois’ agent, has communicated that his client would like to play in Montreal, and Dubois has reportedly communicated to the Jets that his intention is to leave as a free agent in two years' time. Many have speculated, then, that the Canadiens would attempt to acquire Dubois this summer, and it appears that that sort of speculation is grounded in reality.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/players/pierre_luc_dubois/488113

 

 

He told the Jets that he would like to play in Montreal and will sign with them as a free agent (as is his right) when the time comes.

 

So hes done this Privately... and hes given the team a heads up that hes not signing an extension and.likely leaving, giving them the option to trade him as a rental.

 

I dont see the issue here.

 

This also isnt what he was accused of, which was making a trade demand publically.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, DON said:

Dont know anything about Gourdreau.

 

Nice spin on Dubois being such an thoughtful teammate.

 

"Got your back boys, but I just cant wait to get the hell out of here."

 

Teams are allowed to trade players, choose who they want to sign as UFAs, draft who they want, etc....

 

But its a problem when a player tells the team... hey the cba says i can be a ufa and go wherever i.want.  i think im gonna do that?

 

If he was a bad player the team wouldnt re-sign him... but cause hes good he has to pledge to never leave winnipeg? What?

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I think Dubois deserves credit for being straight with his employer about his intentions. Now the Jets can build their plans accordingly. That is how business should be done. We don’t know for sure about the tone he took, but assuming it was amicable, I regard this as an impeccably professional tack by PLD and his agent.

 

To those criticizing him for disloyalty to the Peg, let me ask you: if you were in a position to choose from a range of North American cities to live in for the next eight years, would you choose Winnipeg? No? Then ease off, buddy.

 

What is interesting is his assumption that the Habs will OBVIOUSLY want to sign him as a UFA. 😉 Now maybe he has received a nudge-wink from HuGo to that effect. But there is something slightly presumptuous in his assumption. After all, although I personally favour signing PLD, there is a world in which Suze-Dach form a perfectly adequate 1-2 punch down the middle…or where the Habs draft a likely top-6 C in June. Either case would make us less likely to open the purse-strings for PLD.

 

That’s another variable. PLD may be assuming the Habs will sign him as a UFA for $8.5 mil for 8 years. But even if HuGo want him, they may have different ideas about what his contract should look like.

 

So to me, the odd thing here is not that he was up front with the Jets, but rather that he thinks it is obvious the Habs will sign him. 

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17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I think Dubois deserves credit for being straight with his employer about his intentions. Now the Jets can build their plans accordingly. That is how business should be done. We don’t know for sure about the tone he took, but assuming it was amicable, I regard this as an impeccably professional tack by PLD and his agent.

 

To those criticizing him for disloyalty to the Peg, let me ask you: if you were in a position to choose from a range of North American cities to live in for the next eight years, would you choose Winnipeg? No? Then ease off, buddy.

 

What is interesting is his assumption that the Habs will OBVIOUSLY want to sign him as a UFA. 😉 Now maybe he has received a nudge-wink from HuGo to that effect. But there is something slightly presumptuous in his assumption. After all, although I personally favour signing PLD, there is a world in which Suze-Dach form a perfectly adequate 1-2 punch down the middle…or where the Habs draft a likely top-6 C in June. Either case would make us less likely to open the purse-strings for PLD.

 

That’s another variable. PLD may be assuming the Habs will sign him as a UFA for $8.5 mil for 8 years. But even if HuGo want him, they may have different ideas about what his contract should look like.

 

So to me, the odd thing here is not that he was up front with the Jets, but rather that he thinks it is obvious the Habs will sign him. 


It’s tough to turn down a large man with excellent speed and skill that wants to play for you - even if we are set at centre maybe PLD would allow Dach back with Suzuki. 
 

Salary demands are indeed going to be the tipping point in whether he signs here. I hope Hughes’ negotiating skills are as good as his reputation. 
 

PLD at $7 million seems reasonable to me. 
 

I will add that even though HuGo may not care about a Francophone hero on the team, millions of fans do care and those fans are very loud in Molson’s ear. 
 

The only way PLD is not a Hab is if he sustained a very serious injury or his contract demands are ridiculous IMO

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