IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Commandant said: Different idea. Vasilevskiy is out for two months. What would you want from them to take Jake Allen off our hands. We can always claim a backup goalie off waivers if you don't trust Primeau. Maybe TB picks up Primeau off waiver and hopes they catch lightning in a bottle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 28, 2023 Author Share Posted September 28, 2023 4 hours ago, ehjay said: would Zegras for Guhle be: fair? and good for the Habs?? If you think the Habs have a good defensive pipeline, Anaheim's is even better. I can't see them moving Zegras and if they did, I have to think it would be for a core forward, not a defenceman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Maybe TB picks up Primeau off waiver and hopes they catch lightning in a bottle... They can have him. Hes stagnated and Ive seen nothing to siggest he is currently ready to be an NHL goalie. I think there will be better goalies on waivers to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 4 hours ago, GHT120 said: I like the idea, but TBL is not expected to use LTIR for Vasilevskiy precisely because he is expected back in later 2023, and his full AAV would return to the cap when he did ... they are in a horrible cap crunch ... currently $6,948,333 over the cap with Seabrook ($6,875,000) expected to go on LTIR ... 6 of their 10 skaters with AAVs of $2M or more have NTC/NMCs ... a trade would be challenging, to say the least ... TBL's next two first round picks are already traded and not certain how deep their prospect pool is at this point ... so I don't know how the cap could work or what they could offer, unless HuGo just want to move Allen's cap hit out of town. Now MONTEMBEAULT would be easy for TBL to fit under their cap, but it would take AN AWFUL LOT for HuGo to even consider moving Samuel. That's a pretty good synopsis of where Tampa is right now, it wouldn't be an easy deal to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 6 hours ago, ehjay said: maybe Guhle and a 1st in 2027 top 2 protected then i would guess if u twin CC contract for Zegras, man would be cool with that ... well from the rumor numbers out in the interwebs Why are we even considering trading a dman that has top pairing potential, when we have sucked at D for a a long time, and pushing bottom pairing guys into middle and top pairing positions?? We have a lot of prospects in the system and it’s not like adding Zegras make us a contender, or even a playoff team. We would still suck on D. I wouldn’t trade anyone of our top D prospects until at least 4 emerge as guys that are legit top pairing and top 4 dmen. Also not sure why we would want to move them to when we are ready to compete. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 6 hours ago, GHT120 said: I like the idea, but TBL is not expected to use LTIR for Vasilevskiy precisely because he is expected back in later 2023, and his full AAV would return to the cap when he did ... they are in a horrible cap crunch ... currently $6,948,333 over the cap with Seabrook ($6,875,000) expected to go on LTIR ... 6 of their 10 skaters with AAVs of $2M or more have NTC/NMCs ... a trade would be challenging, to say the least ... TBL's next two first round picks are already traded and not certain how deep their prospect pool is at this point ... so I don't know how the cap could work or what they could offer, unless HuGo just want to move Allen's cap hit out of town. Now MONTEMBEAULT would be easy for TBL to fit under their cap, but it would take AN AWFUL LOT for HuGo to even consider moving Samuel. I agree, its challenging. Montreal would need to retain on Allen, and that would be our last retain spot. For that reason it would be costly for Hugo to do it. Like 2026 first rounder (thinking that may be when tampa starts to fall off). or a prospect like Ethan Gauthier or Isaac Howard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 7 hours ago, Commandant said: I agree, its challenging. Montreal would need to retain on Allen, and that would be our last retain spot. For that reason it would be costly for Hugo to do it. Like 2026 first rounder (thinking that may be when tampa starts to fall off). or a prospect like Ethan Gauthier or Isaac Howard. Doubt HuGo want to use their 3rd salary retention slot ... and Allen at $1.925 is still very challenging for TBL to fit under their cap ... but Montembeault, with a $1M AAV, would be a dream for them ... so, would you trade SM for TBL's 2024 first round pick, if not transferred to Chicago (i.e., if it is in the Top 10) ... OR ... one of Hugo Alnefelt/Ethan Gauthier/Isaac Howard and their 2025 first, if not transferred to Nashville (same condition) ... OR ... two of Hugo Alnefelt/Ethan Gauthier/Issac Howard and their 2026 first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 I personally think that we should not trade Montembault. He may be our #1 for a decade. He has things to work on but you can clearly see his talent. Yes too early to call Montembault a star NHL goalie but you can see the potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: Doubt HuGo want to use their 3rd salary retention slot ... and Allen at $1.925 is still very challenging for TBL to fit under their cap ... but Montembeault, with a $1M AAV, would be a dream for them ... so, would you trade SM for TBL's 2024 first round pick, if not transferred to Chicago (i.e., if it is in the Top 10) ... OR ... one of Hugo Alnefelt/Ethan Gauthier/Isaac Howard and their 2025 first, if not transferred to Nashville (same condition) ... OR ... two of Hugo Alnefelt/Ethan Gauthier/Issac Howard and their 2026 first? If its a first and a top prospect. Yeah i do it. Thats a lot for tampa tongive for a two month starter though, so I don't know it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Just now, Commandant said: If its a first and a top prospect. Yeah i do it. Thats a lot for tampa tongive for a two month starter though, so I don't know it works. A presumed two-month starter ... no guarantee it is just 8-10 weeks ... and even if it is, goalies returning from back surgery don't jump right back into starting 73% of their teams' games ... I expect Vasilevskiy to need strong support to play his way into form through most of the season, with the target being getting him ready for the playoffs ... much depends on how confident they are in Jonas Johansson, with his 35 NHL games over six North American pro seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 10 minutes ago, GHT120 said: A presumed two-month starter ... no guarantee it is just 8-10 weeks ... and even if it is, goalies returning from back surgery don't jump right back into starting 73% of their teams' games ... I expect Vasilevskiy to need strong support to play his way into form through most of the season, with the target being getting him ready for the playoffs ... much depends on how confident they are in Jonas Johansson, with his 35 NHL games over six North American pro seasons. And all that lends itself more to wanting Allen for them. Of the two Montembault has the higher ceiling but is also the bigger risk due to lack of consistent results over multiple years. Allen would be steady but not spectacular. Money is the issue. I think if we retain, its going to have to be worth it. Hugo will be reluctant to retain, sure, but for the right price he would. Morin has to be in the deal, though that only saves the Bolts about 250k Then they have to get creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I personally think that we should not trade Montembault. He may be our #1 for a decade. He has things to work on but you can clearly see his talent. Yes too early to call Montembault a star NHL goalie but you can see the potential. You have more faith than i do. He seems a mediocre starter to me, fine for rebuild, but not long term answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 16 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Maybe TB picks up Primeau off waiver and hopes they catch lightning in a bottle... I was thinking more of trading Primeau to TBL for either one of their long-term goalie prospects (Nick Malik) or a recent draft pick like Ethan Gauthier if we add a waivers-eligible borderline player like Mysak or Smilanic. Primeau could backup Johanson for a while and shelter Alnefelt from being rushed to the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, DON said: You have more faith than i do. He seems a mediocre starter to me, fine for rebuild, but not long term answer. I feel somewhat similarly. He is a .890 goalie on a rebuilding team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 1 minute ago, DON said: You have more faith than i do. He seems a mediocre starter to me, fine for rebuild, but not long term answer. It's so hard to say. Goalies are so hard to figure out. There have been so many 1 year wonders but goalies that have been consistent year after year (ie. Hellebuyck) are not that common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I was thinking more of trading Primeau to TBL for either one of their long-term goalie prospects (Nick Malik) or a recent draft pick like Ethan Gauthier if we add a waivers-eligible borderline player like Mysak or Smilanic. Primeau could backup Johanson for a while and shelter Alnefelt from being rushed to the NHL. Tampa is not giving up Gauthier for Primeau. Primeau has very little trade value right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Tampa is not giving up Gauthier for Primeau. Primeau has very little trade value right now. they are stuck against the cap, with an ageing core and without their star goalie. I am sure there are better options from other teams, but from the Habs perspective, I wouldn't want themt to trade a valuable piece like Montembeault right now Allen is too expensive so, next in line is Primeau, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 53 minutes ago, DON said: You have more faith than i do. He seems a mediocre starter to me, fine for rebuild, but not long term answer. Top 15 in the NHL last year in terms of GSAx (goal saved above expected) is better than mediocre. He's maturing late but many goalies do. The question is whether he can do the same this year and demonstrate that he has real longer-term potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 29, 2023 Author Share Posted September 29, 2023 51 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: they are stuck against the cap, with an ageing core and without their star goalie. I am sure there are better options from other teams, but from the Habs perspective, I wouldn't want themt to trade a valuable piece like Montembeault right now Allen is too expensive so, next in line is Primeau, isn't it? They'll go the waiver wire for a short-term replacement where it could very well be Primeau. Why trade a good prospect for a guy you can probably get for free two weeks from now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 1 minute ago, dlbalr said: They'll go the waiver wire for a short-term replacement where it could very well be Primeau. Why trade a good prospect for a guy you can probably get for free two weeks from now? because other teams ahead of them on the waiver wire may screw them. If I remember correctly, it has happened that a team would pick someone on waivers to prevent one of their opponents from getting help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: because other teams ahead of them on the waiver wire may screw them. If I remember correctly, it has happened that a team would pick someone on waivers to prevent one of their opponents from getting help I'm not certain how many teams would prefer Primeau to their current/projected NHL backup, or be forced to carry three goalies, just to keep him away from Tampa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 29, 2023 Author Share Posted September 29, 2023 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: because other teams ahead of them on the waiver wire may screw them. If I remember correctly, it has happened that a team would pick someone on waivers to prevent one of their opponents from getting help Generally not with third-string goalies. Not entirely impossible but the list of third-string goalies that will hit waivers is good enough that Tampa Bay won't need to trade for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 26 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Generally not with third-string goalies. Not entirely impossible but the list of third-string goalies that will hit waivers is good enough that Tampa Bay won't need to trade for one. Martin was picked up by CBJ on waivers. Available goalies on waivers may never reach TBL Anaheim Ducks Columbus Blue Jackets Chicago Blackhawks San Jose Sharks Montreal Canadiens Arizona Coyotes Philadelphia Flyers Washington Capitals Detroit Red Wings St. Louis Blues Vancouver Canucks Ottawa Senators Pittsburgh Penguins Buffalo Sabres Nashville Predators Florida Panthers Calgary Flames New York Islanders Winnipeg Jets Tampa Bay Lightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 29, 2023 Author Share Posted September 29, 2023 But how many of those teams will need to claim a goalie? And is that number higher than the amount of goalies that will be available? Off-hand, I thought of Stalock, Jones, Lyon, Hellberg, and Stolarz (I'm sure I'm missing some) that have recent NHL experience with a bit of success. Supply greatly outweighs demand here so unless Primeau is viewed way above the other options, they're not going to trade for him. And since they're only looking for a short-term option, he might not be viewed way above the other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 26 minutes ago, dlbalr said: But how many of those teams will need to claim a goalie? And is that number higher than the amount of goalies that will be available? Off-hand, I thought of Stalock, Jones, Lyon, Hellberg, and Stolarz (I'm sure I'm missing some) that have recent NHL experience with a bit of success. Supply greatly outweighs demand here so unless Primeau is viewed way above the other options, they're not going to trade for him. And since they're only looking for a short-term option, he might not be viewed way above the other options. I have not compared salaries, contract terms, age and injury history for those other goalies. I was just saying that, from the Habs perspective, it is more likely that Primeau is dealt rather that Montembeault, Allen or one of the PTOs at camp what I picked from the TBL may be too much, but I would see swap on cheap contracts where the contract coming back to MTL would be waiver excempt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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