Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said:

 

Would having the retention spot at the deadline net more than the assets without Ceci than with Ceci + asset coming from a Ceci trade with retention? 

 

Completely hypothetical situation, if Montreal can get Ceci + 3rd for future considerations, then retain 50% to flip him for another 3rd, which is below value of what they should get.  That's 2 3rds for free, well $1.6m cap space for next season.  Would not making those trades and attaching the retention to Savard or Dvorak net 2 extra 3rds?  I doubt it, and this is on the low end of what Ceci should net in return in this example.

 

That's why I asked, does it matter if that last retention spot is available.  If it is, great, but if you can get more assets by using it elsewhere, keeping it for the deadline shouldn't be a priority.

 

I think Savard could get you a 1st and prospect with 50% retention, like Chiarot did.... so no, I'm not using the retention spot to get a couple 3rds. 

Plus given the number of middle round picks this team has had and the issues with signing (50 contract limit), more 2nd and 3rds isn't something I'd be interested in.  Premium picks or wait and see what happens at the deadline. 

[hab29RETIRED]

25 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I think Savard could get you a 1st and prospect with 50% retention, like Chiarot did.... so no, I'm not using the retention spot to get a couple 3rds. 

Plus given the number of middle round picks this team has had and the issues with signing (50 contract limit), more 2nd and 3rds isn't something I'd be interested in.  Premium picks or wait and see what happens at the deadline. 

Inwant nothing to do with Ceci and don't want to use up a retention spot on a bum like him.l - even if we do move him.

I also dont want more 2nd and 3rds. I think we need to go to the trader Sam route and try and accumulate additional #1's 2-3 years out. We have a lot of prospects in the pipeline and more picks coming in. If  are going to move players or retain money (ie if we move Savard),  id rather make moves to pick up additional first rounders for 2026, 2027  and 2028.  Try and get some unprotected picks so if a team under achieves the way the Leafs did in the Seguin draft, we have some potential lottery picks.

 

one thing I like about Arizona's approach in 2023 on some of their picks, was that they were picking guys that they had more time to sign, and that's the approach we should be thinking about at this point. 
 

we have a log jam ad D. Unles Hutson, Maillouux, or Reinbacher play too well to get sent down. Let them play in Laval, so we can better evaluate our D. Of the three, the only guy I'm hesitant on sending down is Hutson. I'm not sure there are enough player with high enough hockey Iq in Laval for Hutson to not only be success, but also progress.

 

Barron (unless traded), can't be sent down. Wifi better come in ready to go, or he should be a a candidate for Laval. The guy I'd hate to send down even if he plays well is Struble, but unless we move a D, he may be the odd man out, since if he plays enough games, we won't be able to send him down later. 
 

ideal situation is that we can make a move for a high end winger for a package that is Harris and a guy like Anderson. Anyone know who is on his no trade list. Winnipeg has difficulty signing guys, if Anderson doesn't have him on their list would Anderson and Harris be an option for Mcgroarty? If Anderson doesn't have them on his no trade list  AND turns things around they have a big forward locked up and a middle pairing dman.

[tomh009]

Second-rounders might be useful though not particularly desirable, but thirds are really not of much value at this point in the rebuild.

[BCHabnut]

I'm with habs29. Ceci sucks. That is all!

[TurdBurglar]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I think Savard could get you a 1st and prospect with 50% retention, like Chiarot did.... so no, I'm not using the retention spot to get a couple 3rds. 

Plus given the number of middle round picks this team has had and the issues with signing (50 contract limit), more 2nd and 3rds isn't something I'd be interested in.  Premium picks or wait and see what happens at the deadline. 

 

 

The Chiarot trade was considered an overpayment by Florida, so expecting a equal amount for an older and slower RD isn't realistic.  As I said with the 3rds, that on the very low end.  You could easily pull a second or even a first, if you believe Savard is worth a first, from either of those trades.

 

As for Ceci's numbers last season, no defenseman is going to look good when the forwards don't backcheck, your defensive partner is playing like a 3rd pairing guy and the goalie can't stop a beachball.  The season before, he was one of Edmonton's best defenders.  For reference, in the playoffs, Ceci was a steady 2nd pair defenseman, while he rotated between Nurse, Kulak and Broberg as his defensive partner because they were all under performing.

[TurdBurglar]

25 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I'm with habs29. Ceci sucks. That is all!

Honestly, from watching games myself, Ceci is getting a bad wrap.  A defenseman like him will never look good when the forwards don't backcheck and the ones that do can't score.  Then couple that with a goalie that can't stop a beachball.

[Commandant]

Cody Ceci has never been "one of Edmonton's best defenders".  His advanced stats in his best season have him as a replacement level player (ie you'd get the same thing from a very good AHLer on a call-up).  His other seasons have all been a below replacement level player and that goes back to his time with Pittsburgh and Ottawa.  He isn't good.  Heck Savard isn't my favourite defender, but his analytics (which aren't good) are still better than Ceci's. 

 

He's been this way his whole career.  Its not the team or the linemates that mean he's an overpaid player. 

 

Nearly every partner he's had plays better without him than with him. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Cody Ceci has never been "one of Edmonton's best defenders".  His advanced stats in his best season have him as a replacement level player (ie you'd get the same thing from a very good AHLer on a call-up).  His other seasons have all been a below replacement level player and that goes back to his time with Pittsburgh and Ottawa.  He isn't good.  Heck Savard isn't my favourite defender, but his analytics (which aren't good) are still better than Ceci's. 

 

He's been this way his whole career.  Its not the team or the linemates that mean he's an overpaid player. 

 

Nearly every partner he's had plays better without him than with him. 

And yet this guy has played almost 800 NHL games. Things like this make me wonder - what gives? What is the magical hold a guy like this has on NHL general managers?

[hab29RETIRED]

47 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

And yet this guy has played almost 800 NHL games. Things like this make me wonder - what gives? What is the magical hold a guy like this has on NHL general managers?

Watered down league. I'm not surprised he is in the league. What surprises me is how much bums like him make. I really don't get how a guy like Nurse was considered to be a worth half his salary. 
 

reminds me of a Nilan podcast with Svoboda. Robinson used to drive to proactive and games with Svoboda and when Svoboda told him how much he was making, Robinson was surprised and pissed at Savard, since Svoboda was making more than him. 
 

it's one of the reasons I hate the whole arbitration process. Dumb decisions by stupid GM's mess up the salary structure for every other team. 
 

I think the NFL non guaranteed contracts are ridiculous, but the NHL is a the other extreme. I have no issues if am McDavid or Crosby make even $25m a year. But have an issue with guys like -Skinner, Marner, or what grunts like Alzner and Savard make.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

And yet this guy has played almost 800 NHL games. Things like this make me wonder - what gives? What is the magical hold a guy like this has on NHL general managers?

 

Big guy, hits people, plays defence

 

Teams can't seem to distinguish between the defencemen who do this skill well (Radko Gudas, Nikita Zadorov, Chris Tanev) and the ones who do it poorly (Ceci, Gudbranson, Jack Johnson).  Add in former first round pick (something the three mentioned all have) and they get chance after chance. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

5 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Second-rounders might be useful though not particularly desirable, but thirds are really not of much value at this point in the rebuild.

 

I think "this point in the rebuild" is a key consideration here. There are fewer pieces needed to complete the rebuild so Hughes is more likely to package draft picks to acquire that needed piece rather than acquiring more draft picks. However Hughes would likely consider adding another 1st rounder in the right deal as he can always package 1st rounders to move up. He was asked about acquiring another 1st rounder at the 24 draft, he said he was trying hard to move up in the draft (which he did) rather than trying to acquire another 1st rounder. 

 

 

 

 

[dlbalr]

6 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

one thing I like about Arizona's approach in 2023 on some of their picks, was that they were picking guys that they had more time to sign, and that's the approach we should be thinking about at this point.

 

That actually has been one of the underlying themes of Montreal's last two drafts as they've primarily drafted players with extended signing deadlines.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

Cody Ceci has never been "one of Edmonton's best defenders".  His advanced stats in his best season have him as a replacement level player (ie you'd get the same thing from a very good AHLer on a call-up).  His other seasons have all been a below replacement level player and that goes back to his time with Pittsburgh and Ottawa.  He isn't good.  Heck Savard isn't my favourite defender, but his analytics (which aren't good) are still better than Ceci's. 

 

He's been this way his whole career.  Its not the team or the linemates that mean he's an overpaid player. 

 

Nearly every partner he's had plays better without him than with him. 

 

Comparing Ceci to the other Oiler defensemen  (not named Eckholm or Bouchard) how would his advanced stats compare? He had a better +/- than all the others (including the overpaid Nurse), Kulak and Desharnais during the regular season. If they are all equally as bad as Ceci than it's amazing the Oilers made to the finals. 

[Commandant]

Nurse is not good, but he is worse with Ceci than without him.

 

Remember the Oilers are an average team (or even below average) when Drai and McDavid arent on the ice and a juggernaut when they are.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

56 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Nurse is not good, but he is worse with Ceci than without him.

 

Remember the Oilers are an average team (or even below average) when Drai and McDavid arent on the ice and a juggernaut when they are.

 

I am sure Nurse is better with an Eckholm (who wouldn't be) or a Bouchard. Not sure that would apply to any other defensemen on the Oilers he would be paired with. 

[TurdBurglar]

14 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I am sure Nurse is better with an Eckholm (who wouldn't be) or a Bouchard. Not sure that would apply to any other defensemen on the Oilers he would be paired with. 

Defensively, Nurse does better with Ekholm and Bouchard is behind Ceci and Desharnais according to his advanced stats. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

I am betting Laine is back with the Blue Jackets

 

 

https://www.tsn.ca/video/blue-jackets-would-welcome-laine-back-if-there-s-no-deal-to-be-done~2979056

[Commandant]

7 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

Defensively, Nurse does better with Ekholm and Bouchard is behind Ceci and Desharnais according to his advanced stats. 

 

Which stats are those that Bouchard is behind anyone else on the Oilers?

 

 

[TurdBurglar]

14 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Which stats are those that Bouchard is behind anyone else on the Oilers?

 

 

Not talking about Bouchard vs the Oilers, talking about who Nurse is better paired with.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said:

Not talking about Bouchard vs the Oilers, talking about who Nurse is better paired with.

 

Fair, your post was confusing though as it looked like you were saying Bouchard was behind Ceci and Desharnais

[tomh009]

On 7/19/2024 at 9:27 AM, DON said:

OK, would a young-d like Harris-Barron fit?

Or other teams (contenders) likely offer more?

Not bad, Don, not bad at all! Hughes managed to extract a 2026 second as well, but your call was awfully close.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

whats next? we need to get under the cap and move another dman....

 

McGroaty to Mtl

 

Dvorak or Anderson

Sean Farrell

2025 1st flames

2025 2nd

 

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

22 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

whats next? we need to get under the cap and move another dman....

 

McGroaty to Mtl

 

Dvorak or Anderson

Sean Farrell

2025 1st flames

2025 2nd

 

 

 

 

I think Hughes likely went hard after McGroaty, didn't work out and pivoted to Laine. I don't see McGroaty coming to Montreal now. With Price on LTIR, they will be under the cap. 

 

I don't see any more big moves in the short term but could be dead wrong. 

[Commandant]

Well, Nashville may be unexpectedly clearing 4million in cap space tomorrow (via the Ryan Johansen material breach termination, they have retained 50%). 

 

Askarov to Montreal. 

 

Josh Anderson and Calgary 1st round pick to Nashville.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Well, Nashville may be unexpectedly clearing 4million in cap space tomorrow (via the Ryan Johansen material breach termination, they have retained 50%). 

 

Askarov to Montreal. 

 

Josh Anderson and Calgary 1st round pick to Nashville.

I am guessing the Johansen situation will take a while to play out as he will contest this.