Canajun Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 "Demidov has "some defensive acumen"... what? No he's a defensive issue in the KHL and as much as I think SKA has been over the top with it, its part of the reason for his low minutes, and thats playing on the wing, not at centre." Have read it more than once that he has decent defensive awareness. If I come across an article mentioning it again, I will post it for you. The chief reason for his low minutes is petty coach/manager/owner Rotenberg "punishing" Demidov for wanting to leave the KHL after this season is over. It's curious how Demidov's ice-time substantially rose *immediately* after the Habs brass paid a visit. "But to think hes immediately gonna be an NHL centre and on a line with two other defensive liabilities in Ehlers and Laine. Wow. That line might set records for xGA and goals against." Might not also. I think their offense would outweigh their defensive shortcomings. Demidov would be no worse defensively than Dach - that would be a difficult feat. And if not Dach, then who? Cozens? Mittelstadt? Neither of those are defensive stalwarts. "Then you have Newhook at centre, position that the team wont put him at this year." No, because they using him to fill out their top-6 and hoping in vain he can be a solution there, as they paid a fairly big price to get him to play such a role. When he played center briefly last year, I found he was better. 3rd line center would give him even more favorable matchups. "Yeah i dont see that as a lineup." Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Ive watched him (Demidov) myself. There are defensive issues that show up in the KHL. Im a huge fan and love the pick but hes not a perfect player. One more thing on the KHL today vs pre-ukraine war is that the over all talent level is a lot lower. They dont have near the quantity or quality of non-russians as were in the league before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 2 hours ago, Canajun said: My two cents : - I say leave Dylan Cozens be. Too expensive. - I've read that Demidov said he would be just as content at center, as on wing. He seems more of a prototypical center... great distribution skills, drives play, and has some defensive acumen. Plus being a center would probably increase his production by another 15 to 20 points. - Keep Dach. I like him, but for a center, he doesn't seem to be the greatest passer. He does have great puck possession skills however and when he is feeling it, shows great "generalship" on the ice. I would put him on wing. - I think Laine's legs/knees are not well, and he is showing it... his skating is like a Bambi deer. He is a much more dynamic player than what he is displaying right now, and he will strengthen up and get better. Just needs some time. - I've read that Laine's old Winnipeg buddy Nikolai Ehlers has shown interest in joining him on the Habs next year as a UFA. Sign him. Next year's tentative lineup: Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield Ehlers - Demidov - Laine Heineman - Newhook - Dach Gally - Kapanen/Beck - Anderson That's a pretty deep forward corps. Thoughts? Flames? I do not know much about Cozens, he is expensive and an upgrade to Dach. I would package Dach with a 2nd round pick, and either Luke Tuch (to play on the link to Alex Tuch) or Armia since they seem thin on RW. Armia's expiring contract would give them flexibility. this site compares them like this: https://stathead.com/tiny/rYuzW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canajun Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 5 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: I do not know much about Cozens, he is expensive and an upgrade to Dach. I would package Dach with a 2nd round pick, and either Luke Tuch (to play on the link to Alex Tuch) or Armia since they seem thin on RW. Armia's expiring contract would give them flexibility. this site compares them like this: https://stathead.com/tiny/rYuzW Yeah he'd be a bit of an upgrade on Dach, but that contract is just too much. It could hamstring us down the road. I still have some faith in Dach... but as a winger though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Lots of rumours about Noah Dobson He is UFA at the end of the season and I have to assume he either wants out of NY or his contract demands are too big. Why else would you trade this 24 year old top pairing RD? His stat card is outstanding, not elite but very, very good. He seems to be a more complete Matheson. What kind of offer could we mount? Matheson Calgary first Beck (I know I don’t wanna trade him either) Is that a reasonable starting point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 28 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: [...] What kind of offer could we mount? Matheson Calgary first Beck (I know I don’t wanna trade him either) Is that a reasonable starting point? [...] Beck?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 26 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Lots of rumours about Noah Dobson He is UFA at the end of the season and I have to assume he either wants out of NY or his contract demands are too big. Why else would you trade this 24 year old top pairing RD? His stat card is outstanding, not elite but very, very good. He seems to be a more complete Matheson. What kind of offer could we mount? Matheson Calgary first Beck (I know I don’t wanna trade him either) Is that a reasonable starting point? Unless it comes with a contract extension I wouldn't give a 4th round pick for him ... OK ... I would, but only because if Lou was senile enough to make the trade I could then flip Dobson for a good return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Unless Matheson is a cancer in the locker room, I’m not sure why we’re including him in the deal. Top pairing for a top pairing, but we’re including all the extras. Prior to this season, Matheson was higher than Dobson on most if not all NHL D rankings. Dobson was injured, but even the ones that still listed Dobson and took that into consideration had Matheson higher. Even in the present, (some) lists have Matheson higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 46 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Unless it comes with a contract extension I wouldn't give a 4th round pick for him ... OK ... I would, but only because if Lou was senile enough to make the trade I could then flip Dobson for a good return. Any trade for Dobson would have a contract extension as teams would want a sign and trade to get the extra year on the deal. 40 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: Unless Matheson is a cancer in the locker room, I’m not sure why we’re including him in the deal. Top pairing for a top pairing, but we’re including all the extras. Prior to this season, Matheson was higher than Dobson on most if not all NHL D rankings. Dobson was injured, but even the ones that still listed Dobson and took that into consideration had Matheson higher. Even in the present, (some) lists have Matheson higher. The biggest reason for adding Matheson would be he's LD and Dobson is RD. Matheson, Guhle, Hutson are all LD. None have shown to be as effective on their off side as thier natural side. All of that being said, I would do it, even if it sent Beck the other way. A future problem could be a logjam on the RD, but if that were to happen you could find a replacement for Beck with that trade. Worse case scenario is one of Reinbacher or Mailioux doesn't work out, then you still have 2 good top-4 RD. Plus, to replace Beck, there's this kid named Demidov that's getting a bunch of attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: Unless Matheson is a cancer in the locker room, I’m not sure why we’re including him in the deal. Top pairing for a top pairing, but we’re including all the extras. Prior to this season, Matheson was higher than Dobson on most if not all NHL D rankings. Dobson was injured, but even the ones that still listed Dobson and took that into consideration had Matheson higher. Even in the present, (some) lists have Matheson higher. 24 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: Any trade for Dobson would have a contract extension as teams would want a sign and trade to get the extra year on the deal. The biggest reason for adding Matheson would be he's LD and Dobson is RD. Matheson, Guhle, Hutson are all LD. None have shown to be as effective on their off side as thier natural side. All of that being said, I would do it, even if it sent Beck the other way. A future problem could be a logjam on the RD, but if that were to happen you could find a replacement for Beck with that trade. Worse case scenario is one of Reinbacher or Mailioux doesn't work out, then you still have 2 good top-4 RD. Plus, to replace Beck, there's this kid named Demidov that's getting a bunch of attention. Turdburgler covered it pretty well. Im not in a hurry to trade Matheson. Matheson simply has a very high trade value and we have strength on the left side. If there were serious trade talks between the teams and a deal was reached, I would then expect a conversation with Dobes agent about contract extension etc. - before finalizing the deal. 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: Beck?! I open to a different player but I’m not sure who. I personally value both Kapanen and Heineman ahead of Beck but I certainly could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Dobson is an RFA at seasons end, not UFA. I expect the Isles to sign him long term and big money. I dont think they have any interest in trading him If they did want to trade him, Id absolutely give that package. This kid is so underrated and an absolute stud at both ends of the rink. I dont know if its cause the isles are buried in coverage cause they are ths least visible of the three new york teams or what, but if this kid plays on a good team he'd be more well known and a norris contender. I think the world of him. He reminds me a lot of Weber, maybe without the absolute cannon of a shot (dobson is still good just not weber). But a younger, more mobile version of that with size and shutdown defence and some offence. If you have the chance you take it. Somehow i dont think Lamoriello lets him out the building though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 21 minutes ago, Commandant said: Dobson is an RFA at seasons end, not UFA. I expect the Isles to sign him long term and big money. I dont think they have any interest in trading him If they did want to trade him, Id absolutely give that package. This kid is so underrated and an absolute stud at both ends of the rink. I dont know if its cause the isles are buried in coverage cause they are ths least visible of the three new york teams or what, but if this kid plays on a good team he'd be more well known and a norris contender. I think the world of him. He reminds me a lot of Weber, maybe without the absolute cannon of a shot (dobson is still good just not weber). But a younger, more mobile version of that with size and shutdown defence and some offence. If you have the chance you take it. Somehow i dont think Lamoriello lets him out the building Yeah there is either something we don’t know about going on or these are just made up rumours. Why would you trade this guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: [...] I open to a different player but I’m not sure who. I personally value both Kapanen and Heineman ahead of Beck but I certainly could be wrong I have turned mentioning Beck as a running joke. Notably because during the Bergevin era we would have been ecstatic for a draft pick like him. I am open to trading him like I am open to trading any of the core players... if the return gets the Habs closer to winning a cup: that is the goal of the rebuild, otherwise there was no point in culling so many players who are doing fine elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreegking Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I like Cozens and would chase him. Matheson no way. Keep him. Savard and Evan’s are my trades. I am an outsider on this but I sign Dvorak (Cantonese both Evan’s and Dvorak at same time at this juncture) to a two year extension but at a lesser amount. Which he would agree. Armia - sign extension. Too diverse to let go. Does too much. In short - swap Evan’s out and add Cozens. Trade Savard and even Anderson if possible. Extend Dvorak and Armia - yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, dreegking said: I like Cozens and would chase him. Matheson no way. Keep him. Savard and Evan’s are my trades. I am an outsider on this but I sign Dvorak (Cantonese both Evan’s and Dvorak at same time at this juncture) to a two year extension but at a lesser amount. Which he would agree. Armia - sign extension. Too diverse to let go. Does too much. In short - swap Evan’s out and add Cozens. Trade Savard and even Anderson if possible. Extend Dvorak and Armia - yup. So Evans and Savard for Cozens.... why would Buffalo do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreegking Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Turdburgler covered it pretty well. Im not in a hurry to trade Matheson. Matheson simply has a very high trade value and we have strength on the left side. If there were serious trade talks between the teams and a deal was reached, I would then expect a conversation with Dobes agent about contract extension etc. - before finalizing the deal. I open to a different player but I’m not sure who. I personally value both Kapanen and Heineman ahead of Beck but I certainly could be wrong At this point for sure. But the three are what make guys like Dach, Aline, and Newhook and the likes all trade bait as far as I’m concerned. Even if for almost nothing. Shed the contracts. Earn your keep or see ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreegking Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, Commandant said: So Evans and Savard for Cozens.... why would Buffalo do this I didn’t say that. I’d chase Cozens is all is all I said. And I’d be shopping Evans and Savard before some others. Anderson too of the a decent price. Heck Dach and Newhook. And Laine. None are the future. And all The latter are over paid and deficits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreegking Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) Beck and Heinemen and Kapanen and Demidov are all on the team next year. ROY too if he gets his act together. And there could be others that jump one of them. At least all these players work and seem to have mental toughness. gotta make room get draft picks. Eat a bit of cash as all are cheaper. And chase a good player or too that is young and upside. Cozens potential to rebound is higher than the gambles they took on feeling youngsters like Dach and Newhook when they brought them into the fold. They are third liners if kept. Edited February 8 by dreegking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, dreegking said: I didn’t say that. I’d chase Cozens is all is all I said. And I’d be shopping Evans and Savard before some others. Anderson too of the a decent price. Heck Dach and Newhook. And Laine. None are the future. And all The latter are over paid and deficits. Ok and what do you expect teams to give your for the "Overpaid and Deficits" players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreegking Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, Commandant said: Ok and what do you expect teams to give your for the "Overpaid and Deficits" players? Depends how much we eat in cash. No cash eaten. 2nd or 3rds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreegking Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Just now, dreegking said: Depends how much we eat in cash. No cash eaten. 2nd or 3rds. do you think that is fair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 hours ago, TurdBurglar said: Any trade for Dobson would have a contract extension as teams would want a sign and trade to get the extra year on the deal. The biggest reason for adding Matheson would be he's LD and Dobson is RD. Matheson, Guhle, Hutson are all LD. None have shown to be as effective on their off side as thier natural side. All of that being said, I would do it, even if it sent Beck the other way. A future problem could be a logjam on the RD, but if that were to happen you could find a replacement for Beck with that trade. Worse case scenario is one of Reinbacher or Mailioux doesn't work out, then you still have 2 good top-4 RD. Plus, to replace Beck, there's this kid named Demidov that's getting a bunch of attention. The biggest reason Matheson is included is actually because people undervalue Matheson. It’s one thing to make the trade 1 for 1, or even 1+ a little something else but we’re including Matheson, a 1st and Beck and people are still jumping at the opportunity. That tells me enough. I had thought about the LD vs RD factor already and still wouldn’t make the trade that was suggested. It’s bound to happen that Hutson has some upcoming slumps considering he is still so young and teams are already beginning to scout him and make adjustments against him. It won’t be long before teams realize that when you think he’s going left, he’s going right and simply start playing the body more on him. I’m rooting with all my heart for Hutson but we’ve already seen a little bit of a downtrend over the past few weeks. He’s still doing amazing this year though, and nothing against him. It’s great to have both Matheson and Hutson. Guhle is a different player altogether. Anyway, despite the hate for Matheson (in general, no one specific) this is another lateral move in that we lose a #1 and gain another #1, and to those who are nit-picky, fine we lose a #1/#2 to gain a #1/#2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, dreegking said: do you think that is fair? No, I don't think teams are giving 2nd and 3rd round picks for players who are "overpaid and deficits" ... which was your words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: The biggest reason Matheson is included is actually because people undervalue Matheson. It’s one thing to make the trade 1 for 1, or even 1+ a little something else but we’re including Matheson, a 1st and Beck and people are still jumping at the opportunity. That tells me enough. I had thought about the LD vs RD factor already and still wouldn’t make the trade that was suggested. It’s bound to happen that Hutson has some upcoming slumps considering he is still so young and teams are already beginning to scout him and make adjustments against him. It won’t be long before teams realize that when you think he’s going left, he’s going right and simply start playing the body more on him. I’m rooting with all my heart for Hutson but we’ve already seen a little bit of a downtrend over the past few weeks. He’s still doing amazing this year though, and nothing against him. It’s great to have both Matheson and Hutson. Guhle is a different player altogether. Anyway, despite the hate for Matheson (in general, no one specific) this is another lateral move in that we lose a #1 and gain another #1, and to those who are nit-picky, fine we lose a #1/#2 to gain a #1/#2. I think I've been very clear on how much I like Matheson. On this board, I'm probably one of the biggest Matheson fans. That said I think you underestimate Dobson if you think he's a lateral move to Matheson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreegking Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: I think I've been very clear on how much I like Matheson. On this board, I'm probably one of the biggest Matheson fans. That said I think you underestimate Dobson if you think he's a lateral move to Matheson. Agreed. Both are upper echelon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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