Commandant Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Lets criticize the team for rushing a player who is not ready when they havent rushed him yet and we havent seen if he is ready Cause hes ####ing injured. And lets bring up what management did with Mete, when none of the same management is in place. Make it make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Lets criticize the team for rushing a player who is not ready when they havent rushed him yet and we havent seen if he is ready Cause hes ####ing injured. And lets bring up what management did with Mete, when none of the same management is in place. Make it make sense. I’m not criticizing them YET. What I said is that I’d want the. To bring in a legit RD, and they don’t expect Reinbacher to come in and be a top 4 - the way Bergevin did with Mete. If they follow that approach, then I will be critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, tomh009 said: They expect him to be in top four, yes. Not next year, but he is expected to be a long-term top-four RD. Gorton's and Hughes's plan is to contend for the Cup, not to focus on the next season. They need to bring another top 4 RD For next season. Savard if brought back would be a 7th dman offer. Mailloux and Reinbacher aren’t ready and are not likely to be ready. We can’t keep playing our LD in their wrong side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: They need to bring another top 4 RD For next season. Savard if brought back would be a 7th dman offer. Mailloux and Reinbacher aren’t ready and are not likely to be ready. We can’t keep playing our LD in their wrong side. I agree in principle, but this is easier said than done, surely. Probably more realistic to think in terms of a veteran bottom-pairing D whom we use as a #4, thereby putting the kids in a better developmental situation. The other option is to just move a vet LD like Matheson to the right side. Like you, I can't stand screwing the kids' development by using them on the off wing...but a 31 year old? Who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Reinbacher can start the season as a third pair and then evolve from there, should he earn it. He doesn’t have to start in the top 4 even if he is expected to be in that position eventually. Perhaps he even does earn a top 4 spot. We have Hutson who made the team, as an example, so not everyone will be a Mete. We can make assumptions based on what we’ve seen and even very good ones, but no one knows where Reinbacher and Mailloux will be development wise in 7 months from now. Reinbacher was also a 5th overall pick versus Mete being 100th overall, and they’ve already waited longer with Reinbacher than they did with Mete by a year. Not exactly apples to apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Everyone seems to be forgetting that Reinbacher has missed almost an entire season. We're seeing what that does do older guys like Dach and Laine. What does it do a 20 year old? I wouldn't pencil him in for the opening night roster at ALL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Everyone seems to be forgetting that Reinbacher has missed almost an entire season. We're seeing what that does do older guys like Dach and Laine. What does it do a 20 year old? I wouldn't pencil him in for the opening night roster at ALL. And, even if he has a great camp, I would prefer him playing BIG minutes in all situations in Laval to start next season than 3rd pairing minutes in Montreal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: And, even if he has a great camp, I would prefer him playing BIG minutes in all situations in Laval to start next season than 3rd pairing minutes in Montreal. Based on what I know today, I agree. But he seems close to playing this year and so playing 20 games and a playoff run in Laval could change my mind, or could cement my belief he should start in Laval. This convo could be really different in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I’m not sure what the apprehension is. I’m the last one to want to rush juniors as anyone who has caught a pattern within my posts over the years should know I prefer veterans over unproven rookies, and usually prefer helping the team in the present over chasing youth for the future. However, every top defensive draft pick in the draft the year before Reinbacher’s draft has played in the NHL this year, and some even the year before. I understand the injury concern and had already thought about it (didn’t forget or overlook) but Reinbacher is young and from this moment forward has another 7 months to get into high intensity game playing shape. It has nothing to do with rushing him but as the 5th overall pick he should be playing with the big club next year, at least for part of the season. Otherwise, there is cause for some mild concern with the pick considering other players who were picked before him and even after have already began their NHL careers. Nemec, Korchinski, Jiricek, Mintyukov were all top 10 draft picks the year before and they’ve all spent time with the big club (not to mention Lane Hutson). Don’t get me wrong, their paths have not been linear and some have been sent back down to the minors at times but Reinbacher should certainly get his opportunity next year. How he runs with it, time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 9 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: I’m not sure what the apprehension is. I’m the last one to want to rush juniors as anyone who has caught a pattern within my posts over the years should know I prefer veterans over unproven rookies, and usually prefer helping the team in the present over chasing youth for the future. However, every top defensive draft pick in the draft the year before Reinbacher’s draft has played in the NHL this year, and some even the year before. I understand the injury concern and had already thought about it (didn’t forget or overlook) but Reinbacher is young and from this moment forward has another 7 months to get into high intensity game playing shape. It has nothing to do with rushing him but as the 5th overall pick he should be playing with the big club next year, at least for part of the season. Otherwise, there is cause for some mild concern with the pick considering other players who were picked before him and even after have already began their NHL careers. Nemec, Korchinski, Jiricek, Mintyukov were all top 10 draft picks the year before and they’ve all spent time with the big club (not to mention Lane Hutson). Don’t get me wrong, their paths have not been linear and some have been sent back down to the minors at times but Reinbacher should certainly get his opportunity next year. How he runs with it, time will tell. Reinbacher had his development stalled from a bad situation last year until he came over to Laval. Then he got injured before the season started this year. I’d be very surprised if he is a viable option to start thr year in Montreal next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 43 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Reinbacher had his development stalled from a bad situation last year until he came over to Laval. Then he got injured before the season started this year. I’d be very surprised if he is a viable option to start thr year in Montreal next year. Highly unlikely. You guys know way more than me, but does Reinbacher project to be a top 2 defender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: It has nothing to do with rushing him but as the 5th overall pick he should be playing with the big club next year, at least for part of the season. Otherwise, there is cause for some mild concern with the pick considering other players who were picked before him and even after have already began their NHL careers. I won't disagree, provided his recovery is successful ... but the discussion has really been centred on the start of next season ... much depends on how much icetime he gets when he joins Laval ... I expect him to be worked in slowly, and to need at least part of next season to get heavy minutes in all situations in Laval to be NHL ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 37 minutes ago, Lanes World said: Highly unlikely. You guys know way more than me, but does Reinbacher project to be a top 2 defender top-4 for sure, à right-handed Guhle (I guess). The debate is about him becoming top-2 or not; he has not played enough in North-America to make an educated guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 46 minutes ago, Lanes World said: You guys know way more than me, but does Reinbacher project to be a top 2 defender Basically expected or projected to be a RH-Guhle. Reinbacher-Guhle might be great PK/Shutdown pairing down the road, or good one to play with Hutson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: ... I’d be very surprised if he is a viable option to start thr year in Montreal next year. See how he looks come the end of his year, if he returns in March and then plays till May sometime, but agree. What kind of offers will a slowed down Savard get i wonder? RH shot blocking depth-d. Will Hughes trade for a top-4 RH d-man before next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: I’m not sure what the apprehension is. I’m the last one to want to rush juniors as anyone who has caught a pattern within my posts over the years should know I prefer veterans over unproven rookies, and usually prefer helping the team in the present over chasing youth for the future. However, every top defensive draft pick in the draft the year before Reinbacher’s draft has played in the NHL this year, and some even the year before. I understand the injury concern and had already thought about it (didn’t forget or overlook) but Reinbacher is young and from this moment forward has another 7 months to get into high intensity game playing shape. It has nothing to do with rushing him but as the 5th overall pick he should be playing with the big club next year, at least for part of the season. Otherwise, there is cause for some mild concern with the pick considering other players who were picked before him and even after have already began their NHL careers. Nemec, Korchinski, Jiricek, Mintyukov were all top 10 draft picks the year before and they’ve all spent time with the big club (not to mention Lane Hutson). Don’t get me wrong, their paths have not been linear and some have been sent back down to the minors at times but Reinbacher should certainly get his opportunity next year. How he runs with it, time will tell. I don’t really care what ‘other top defensive prospects’ have done, as if there is some kind of rule that if you’re drafted #5 you have to be in the NHL by such-and-such a date. 2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Reinbacher had his development stalled from a bad situation last year until he came over to Laval. Then he got injured before the season started this year. I’d be very surprised if he is a viable option to start thr year in Montreal next year. Good point. So he wasted one year and missed most of another. Not promising re: his readiness to step in. All that said, our speculations about Reinbacher’s readiness are immaterial. The real question is whether we trust HuGo to make the right call on what is best for his development. We seem, in the main, to be doing OK in player development, but I’m one who believes that the propensity of our kids to get injured has been a result of throwing them in the deep end too soon. You can also look at Slaf and at least ask whether he has been hindered by the ‘too much too soon’ treatment. All told: if HuGo don’t think Reinbacher can play, they will send him to Laval like they did Mailloux. But if he can play, past patterns suggest that they may be overly optimistic about a kid’s ability to eat major minutes over an 82-game season without getting seriously injured. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I don’t really care what ‘other top defensive prospects’ have done, as if there is some kind of rule that if you’re drafted #5 you have to be in the NHL by such-and-such a date. You probably should. You are the one who brought up there potentially being a red flag surrounding Reinbacher if the Habs are looking to trade for a top 4 defenseman. “Now you can say that Demidov will make Caufield redundant; but that is highly premature IMHO. And for that matter, you can say that Reinbacher will make Dobson redundant - right? After all, we used a #5 overall pick to get him…if the team moves a core piece to get Dobson, that looks like a flashing red indicating that they no longer believe in Reinbacher.” Perhaps it’s also a red flag if management decide that he cannot play in the league by the time most (actually, almost all) other picks in the same area have played? It’s not to say that Reinbacher wouldn’t be a serviceable player in the future in such a scenario, but the question would remain, why the heck did we draft him rather than some other available players with the 5th overall pick? NHL high draft pick comparables over the last decade: 2015 5th overall - Noah Hannifin First season: 2015 (same year as draft) Status: Top 4/6 D 2016 5th overall - Olli Juolevi First Season: 2020 (4 years post draft) Status: Bust 9th Overall - Sergachev First Season: 2017 (played some in 2016) (same year/1 year post draft) Status: Top pair 2017 3rd Overall - Miro Heiskanen First Season: 2018 (1 year post draft) Status: Top pair 4th Overall - Cale Makar First Season: 2019 (2 years post draft) Status: Top pair 2018 1st Overall - Rasmus Dahlin First Season: 2018 (same year as draft) Status: Top Pair 7th Overall - Quinn Hughes First Season: 2019 (played some in 2018) (mainly 1 year post draft) Status: Top Pair 2019 4th Overall - Bowen Byrum First Season: 2020/2021 (1/2 years post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall: Moritz Seider First Season: 2021 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 2020 5th Overall - Jake Sanderson First Season: 2022 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall - Jamie Drysdale First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (1/2 seasons post draft) Status: Top 4 2021 1st Overall - Owen Power First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (same season/1 season post draft) Status: Top 4 4th Overall - Luke Hughes First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a couple of games 1 year post draft) Status: Top 4/6 (currently 3rd pair with Nemec) 6th Overall - Simon Edvinsson First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a few games in 2022) Status: Top 4 2022 All the D listed in my previous post who all played within their 1st two years post draft. The only player who didn’t play in their first couple of years post draft was Juolevi with Vancouver, and he turned out to be a bust. The point is that it’s normal for these high draft picks to play within 2 years of being drafted. Next year marks the second year post draft for Reinbacher. Of course there’s no written rule and some will argue that “this and that” is better for a player’s development but it should raise some skepticism if Reinbacher is unique in this regard. The timeline of when they join the league also correlates with their future success We can make all the excuses we want and talk about injuries even though players have been playing the sport their entire life. Even with Dach and Laine, there comes a point where perhaps this is just how they play. Recovering from an injury may take a month or two to get back up to speed, but it doesn’t take a full year in any scenario unless they stopped playing altogether for years in between. I already know people are seething at the mouth to rebuttle that point but it’s my perspective from having played sports, currently coach a sport as my profession, and have also watched enough comebacks post injury in sport. But sure, there’s no red flag if our 5th overall takes more time to acclimate because of all the excuses fans and the media create in their minds. In regards to Reinbacher, an example is that people were talking about his team in Switzerland and how they weren’t competitive so this would hamper his development. Meanwhile, Reinbacher himself said he was going out there doing his best to compete and didn’t understand when people brought up a “lack of competitiveness” to him. Of course the league wasn’t up to the standard of even the AHL, but the point is that people were once again making excuses for his development. The bottom line of it all is that whether or not Reinbacher plays will depend on a combination of the depth the Habs have on defense next year, whether they choose to still play someone on their off side, as well as Reinbacher’s performance. In the end, I think it’s fair to compare Reinbacher to other high end defensive prospects who have come before him. Otherwise, why was he picked 5th overall? Perhaps we should have gone for someone else then. Hence, the red flag if he doesn’t play next year. My opinion is not that of a red flag, but instead I expect him to play with the Habs next year. Does he go to Laval from time to time as well? It’s very possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, DON said: See how he looks come the end of his year, if he returns in March and then plays till May sometime, but agree. What kind of offers will a slowed down Savard get i wonder? RH shot blocking depth-d. Will Hughes trade for a top-4 RH d-man before next season? I'd expect similar to Erik Johnson last year, maybe a 4th rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 12 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: You probably should. You are the one who brought up there potentially being a red flag surrounding Reinbacher if the Habs are looking to trade for a top 4 defenseman. “Now you can say that Demidov will make Caufield redundant; but that is highly premature IMHO. And for that matter, you can say that Reinbacher will make Dobson redundant - right? After all, we used a #5 overall pick to get him…if the team moves a core piece to get Dobson, that looks like a flashing red indicating that they no longer believe in Reinbacher.” Perhaps it’s also a red flag if he cannot play in the league by the time most (actually, almost all) other picks in the same area have played? It’s not to say that Reinbacher wouldn’t be a serviceable player in the future in such a scenario, but the question would remain, why heck did we draft him rather than some other available players with the 5th overall pick? NHL high draft pick comparables over the last decade: 2015: 5th overall - Noah Hannifin First season: 2015 (same year as draft) Status: Top 4/6 D 2016: 5th overall - Olli Juolevi First Season: 2020 (4 years post draft) Status: Bust 9th Overall - Sergachev First Season: 2017 (played some in 2016) (1/2 years post draft) Status: Top pair 2017: 3rd Overall - Miro Heiskanen First Season: 2018 (1 year post draft) Status: Top pair 4th Overall - Cale Makar First Season: 2019 (2 years post draft) Status: Top pair 2018: 1st Overall - Rasmus Dahlin First Season: 2018 (same year as draft) Status: Top Pair 7th Overall - Quinn Hughes First Season: 2019 (played some in 2018) (mainly 1 year post draft) Status: Top Pair 2019: 4th Overall - Bowen Byrum First Season: 2020/2021 (1/2 years post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall: Moritz Seider First Season: 2021 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 2020: 5th Overall - Jake Sanderson First Season: 2022 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall - Jamie Drysdale First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (1/2 seasons post draft) Status: Top 4 2021: 1st Overall - Owen Power First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (1/2 seasons post draft) Status: Top 4 4th Overall - Luke Hughes First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a couple of games 1 year post draft) Status: Top 4/6 (currently 3rd pair with Nemec) 6th Overall - Simon Edvinsson First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a few games in 2022) Status: Top 4 2022: All the D listed in my previous post who all played within their 1st two years post draft. The only player who didn’t play in their first couple of years post draft was Juolevi with Vancouver, and he turned out to be a bust. The point is that it’s normal for these high draft picks to play within 2 years of being drafted. Next year marks the second year post draft for Reinbacher. Of course there’s no written rule and some will argue that “this and that” is better for a player’s development but it should raise some skepticism if Reinbacher is unique in this regard. The timeline of when they join the league also correlates with their future success We can make all the excuses we want and talk about injuries even though players have been playing the sport their entire life. Even with Dach and Laine, there comes a point where perhaps this is just how they play. Recovering from an injury may take a month or two to get back up to speed, but it doesn’t take a full year in any scenario unless they stopped playing altogether for years in between. I already know people are seething at the mouth to rebuttle that point but it’s my perspective from having played sports, currently coach a sport as my profession, and have also watched enough comebacks post injury in sport. But sure, there’s no red flag if our 5th overall takes more time to acclimate because of all the excuses fans and the media create in their minds. In regards to Reinbacher, an example is that people were talking about his team in Switzerland and how they weren’t competitive so this would hamper his development. Meanwhile, Reinbacher himself said he was going out there doing his best to compete and didn’t understand when people brought up a “lack of competitiveness” to him. Of course the league wasn’t up to the standard of even the AHL, but the point is that people were once again making excuses for his development. The bottom line of it all is that whether or not Reinbacher plays will depend on a combination of the depth the Habs have on defense next year, whether they choose to still play someone on their off side, as well as Reinbacher’s performance. In the end, I think it’s fair to compare Reinbacher to other high end defensive prospects who have come before him. Otherwise, why was he picked 5th overall? Perhaps we should have gone for someone else then. Hence, the red flag if he doesn’t play next year. My opinion is not that of a red flag, but instead I expect him to play with the Habs next year. Does he go to Laval from time to time as well? It’s very possible. The point is that development isn't linear and is different for every player. Every draft is different, the quality of the 5th overall pick one year to the next is not the same. Then you have different development time due to coaching, number of games played (injuries/covid/suspension), quality of teammates, quality of league, and a ton of other things. So every player is unique and these one to one comparisons are unfair, especially for a player who has played all of 46 games since being drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 18 minutes ago, Commandant said: The point is that development isn't linear and is different for every player. Every draft is different, the quality of the 5th overall pick one year to the next is not the same. Then you have different development time due to coaching, number of games played (injuries/covid/suspension), quality of teammates, quality of league, and a ton of other things. So every player is unique and these one to one comparisons are unfair, especially for a player who has played all of 46 games since being drafted. I tend to agree, but I’ll put it this way, most players on the list I provided would still have played within 2 years given Reinbacher’s current circumstance. I do realize that this is an assumption but it’s also my belief. It’s not fair to compare him to Makar or Dahlin because they are elite and definitely would have, but I don’t think it’s farfetched to consider the possibility that Reinbacher plays for us next year based on the knowledge that most players drafted as high as him do. There have been other drafts which were indeed higher quality (though Bedard at 1st overall would have been nice) but there were also a couple of other players who were drafted after him within the same draft that could have been picked (Michkov, Leonard, etc.) so if he doesn’t play because or his performance, it might be fair to ask whether or not the Habs went for a positional need, or the best player available. People on these boards seem to agree that we generally should go after the best player available. I think Reinbacher will be fine and realize that if he is not ready next year this does not mean that he will 100% have a dull future, but I also think relatively highly of players like Michkov and Leonard. And yes, I know about Michkov’s attitude question marks and him having butted heads with Tortorella, but then again what else is new there? Would other players performing in his draft class constitute enough of a reason to force Reinbacher into the lineup in a rushed manner? This is a no. But I would hope that his performance does all the talking and he plays next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 40 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: You probably should. You are the one who brought up there potentially being a red flag surrounding Reinbacher if the Habs are looking to trade for a top 4 defenseman. “Now you can say that Demidov will make Caufield redundant; but that is highly premature IMHO. And for that matter, you can say that Reinbacher will make Dobson redundant - right? After all, we used a #5 overall pick to get him…if the team moves a core piece to get Dobson, that looks like a flashing red indicating that they no longer believe in Reinbacher.” Perhaps it’s also a red flag if management decide that he cannot play in the league by the time most (actually, almost all) other picks in the same area have played? It’s not to say that Reinbacher wouldn’t be a serviceable player in the future in such a scenario, but the question would remain, why the heck did we draft him rather than some other available players with the 5th overall pick? NHL high draft pick comparables over the last decade: 2015 5th overall - Noah Hannifin First season: 2015 (same year as draft) Status: Top 4/6 D 2016 5th overall - Olli Juolevi First Season: 2020 (4 years post draft) Status: Bust 9th Overall - Sergachev First Season: 2017 (played some in 2016) (1/2 years post draft) Status: Top pair 2017 3rd Overall - Miro Heiskanen First Season: 2018 (1 year post draft) Status: Top pair 4th Overall - Cale Makar First Season: 2019 (2 years post draft) Status: Top pair 2018 1st Overall - Rasmus Dahlin First Season: 2018 (same year as draft) Status: Top Pair 7th Overall - Quinn Hughes First Season: 2019 (played some in 2018) (mainly 1 year post draft) Status: Top Pair 2019 4th Overall - Bowen Byrum First Season: 2020/2021 (1/2 years post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall: Moritz Seider First Season: 2021 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 2020 5th Overall - Jake Sanderson First Season: 2022 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall - Jamie Drysdale First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (1/2 seasons post draft) Status: Top 4 2021 1st Overall - Owen Power First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (1/2 seasons post draft) Status: Top 4 4th Overall - Luke Hughes First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a couple of games 1 year post draft) Status: Top 4/6 (currently 3rd pair with Nemec) 6th Overall - Simon Edvinsson First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a few games in 2022) Status: Top 4 2022 All the D listed in my previous post who all played within their 1st two years post draft. The only player who didn’t play in their first couple of years post draft was Juolevi with Vancouver, and he turned out to be a bust. The point is that it’s normal for these high draft picks to play within 2 years of being drafted. Next year marks the second year post draft for Reinbacher. Of course there’s no written rule and some will argue that “this and that” is better for a player’s development but it should raise some skepticism if Reinbacher is unique in this regard. The timeline of when they join the league also correlates with their future success We can make all the excuses we want and talk about injuries even though players have been playing the sport their entire life. Even with Dach and Laine, there comes a point where perhaps this is just how they play. Recovering from an injury may take a month or two to get back up to speed, but it doesn’t take a full year in any scenario unless they stopped playing altogether for years in between. I already know people are seething at the mouth to rebuttle that point but it’s my perspective from having played sports, currently coach a sport as my profession, and have also watched enough comebacks post injury in sport. But sure, there’s no red flag if our 5th overall takes more time to acclimate because of all the excuses fans and the media create in their minds. In regards to Reinbacher, an example is that people were talking about his team in Switzerland and how they weren’t competitive so this would hamper his development. Meanwhile, Reinbacher himself said he was going out there doing his best to compete and didn’t understand when people brought up a “lack of competitiveness” to him. Of course the league wasn’t up to the standard of even the AHL, but the point is that people were once again making excuses for his development. The bottom line of it all is that whether or not Reinbacher plays will depend on a combination of the depth the Habs have on defense next year, whether they choose to still play someone on their off side, as well as Reinbacher’s performance. In the end, I think it’s fair to compare Reinbacher to other high end defensive prospects who have come before him. Otherwise, why was he picked 5th overall? Perhaps we should have gone for someone else then. Hence, the red flag if he doesn’t play next year. My opinion is not that of a red flag, but instead I expect him to play with the Habs next year. Does he go to Laval from time to time as well? It’s very possible. very strong analysis! Thank you for taking the time and posting. If Reinbacher returns this year. I expect him to finish the year in Laval. Next season, depending on his summer training, I do not expect him to win a spot on the NHL at camp. But I expect him to be a call up by mid-season and to be in the NHL no later than the trade deadline unless he is not developing as a 5th overall. I agree with your expectation, but I am cautious on when I expect him to make the jump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 17 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: I tend to agree, but I’ll put it this way, most players on the list I provided would still have played within 2 years given Reinbacher’s current circumstance. I do realize that this is an assumption but it’s also my belief. It’s not fair to compare him to Makar or Dahlin because they are elite and definitely would have, but I don’t think it’s farfetched to consider the possibility that Reinbacher plays for us next year based on the knowledge that most players drafted as high as him do. There have been other drafts which were indeed higher quality (though Bedard at 1st overall would have been nice) but there were also a couple of other players who were drafted after him within the same draft that could have been picked (Michkov, Leonard, etc.) so if he doesn’t play because or his performance, it might be fair to ask whether or not the Habs went for a positional need, or the best player available. People on these boards seem to agree that we generally should go after the best player available. I think Reinbacher will be fine and realize that if he is not ready next year this does not mean that he will 100% have a dull future, but I also think relatively highly of players like Michkov and Leonard. And yes, I know about Michkov’s attitude question marks and him having butted heads with Tortorella, but then again what else is new there? Would other players performing in his draft class constitute enough of a reason to force Reinbacher into the lineup in a rushed manner? This is a no. But I would hope that his performance does all the talking and he plays next year. No... firstly forwards develop quicker than D so thats an unfair comparison and second, those forwards have been on the ice, not dealing with a serious knee injury. We clearly see its taken time for Laine and Dach to get over their injuries, even when healthy. We saw Caufield struggle to score for half a season after his shoulder injury. But we want to compare a guy who tore his acl to other players in the same draft without the injuries and call it a bad pick if hes developping slower as a result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: You probably should. You are the one who brought up there potentially being a red flag surrounding Reinbacher if the Habs are looking to trade for a top 4 defenseman. “Now you can say that Demidov will make Caufield redundant; but that is highly premature IMHO. And for that matter, you can say that Reinbacher will make Dobson redundant - right? After all, we used a #5 overall pick to get him…if the team moves a core piece to get Dobson, that looks like a flashing red indicating that they no longer believe in Reinbacher.” Perhaps it’s also a red flag if management decide that he cannot play in the league by the time most (actually, almost all) other picks in the same area have played? It’s not to say that Reinbacher wouldn’t be a serviceable player in the future in such a scenario, but the question would remain, why the heck did we draft him rather than some other available players with the 5th overall pick? NHL high draft pick comparables over the last decade: 2015 5th overall - Noah Hannifin First season: 2015 (same year as draft) Status: Top 4/6 D 2016 5th overall - Olli Juolevi First Season: 2020 (4 years post draft) Status: Bust 9th Overall - Sergachev First Season: 2017 (played some in 2016) (same year/1 year post draft) Status: Top pair 2017 3rd Overall - Miro Heiskanen First Season: 2018 (1 year post draft) Status: Top pair 4th Overall - Cale Makar First Season: 2019 (2 years post draft) Status: Top pair 2018 1st Overall - Rasmus Dahlin First Season: 2018 (same year as draft) Status: Top Pair 7th Overall - Quinn Hughes First Season: 2019 (played some in 2018) (mainly 1 year post draft) Status: Top Pair 2019 4th Overall - Bowen Byrum First Season: 2020/2021 (1/2 years post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall: Moritz Seider First Season: 2021 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 2020 5th Overall - Jake Sanderson First Season: 2022 (2 seasons post draft) Status: Top Pair 6th Overall - Jamie Drysdale First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (1/2 seasons post draft) Status: Top 4 2021 1st Overall - Owen Power First Season: 2021 (some games) / 2022 (same season/1 season post draft) Status: Top 4 4th Overall - Luke Hughes First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a couple of games 1 year post draft) Status: Top 4/6 (currently 3rd pair with Nemec) 6th Overall - Simon Edvinsson First Season: 2023 (2 years post draft with a few games in 2022) Status: Top 4 2022 All the D listed in my previous post who all played within their 1st two years post draft. The only player who didn’t play in their first couple of years post draft was Juolevi with Vancouver, and he turned out to be a bust. The point is that it’s normal for these high draft picks to play within 2 years of being drafted. Next year marks the second year post draft for Reinbacher. Of course there’s no written rule and some will argue that “this and that” is better for a player’s development but it should raise some skepticism if Reinbacher is unique in this regard. The timeline of when they join the league also correlates with their future success We can make all the excuses we want and talk about injuries even though players have been playing the sport their entire life. Even with Dach and Laine, there comes a point where perhaps this is just how they play. Recovering from an injury may take a month or two to get back up to speed, but it doesn’t take a full year in any scenario unless they stopped playing altogether for years in between. I already know people are seething at the mouth to rebuttle that point but it’s my perspective from having played sports, currently coach a sport as my profession, and have also watched enough comebacks post injury in sport. But sure, there’s no red flag if our 5th overall takes more time to acclimate because of all the excuses fans and the media create in their minds. In regards to Reinbacher, an example is that people were talking about his team in Switzerland and how they weren’t competitive so this would hamper his development. Meanwhile, Reinbacher himself said he was going out there doing his best to compete and didn’t understand when people brought up a “lack of competitiveness” to him. Of course the league wasn’t up to the standard of even the AHL, but the point is that people were once again making excuses for his development. The bottom line of it all is that whether or not Reinbacher plays will depend on a combination of the depth the Habs have on defense next year, whether they choose to still play someone on their off side, as well as Reinbacher’s performance. In the end, I think it’s fair to compare Reinbacher to other high end defensive prospects who have come before him. Otherwise, why was he picked 5th overall? Perhaps we should have gone for someone else then. Hence, the red flag if he doesn’t play next year. My opinion is not that of a red flag, but instead I expect him to play with the Habs next year. Does he go to Laval from time to time as well? It’s very possible. How many of those guys missed almost an season of development? Logically that should set him back a year. If the view that says players develop by getting lots of minutes is correct, then Reinbacher should be regarded as behind schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Armia & Evans to Panthers or Kings eh? Would either team have any good prospects/young NHLers that would fit well on the Habs? Has a team ever even packaged up 2 'good' defensive roster players and shipped them out at deadline before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Matheson (50% retained) + Evans to leafs for Knies + 1st rounder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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