Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[dlbalr]

Pleks, gorges, pateryn, Diaz, Bourque ,and a second for Kane and bogosian.

Assuming the three Habs waive their no-trades, when was the last time a team did a 5 (plus a pick) for 2 deal? Quantity for quality deals don't happen.

[hab29RETIRED]

Almost every deal Serge Savard were multi-player deals. Houle did a lot of them - all though they were crappy. Gainey in his pursuit of Lecavalier would have made a real lousy multi-player deal.

The Thornton deal and the Seguin deals were both quantity for quality. The Phaneuf deal was very similar. The Stall trade was also very similar.

I actually think you are going to see more multi-player deals when team's are making a real hockey deal. Otherwise it's too difficult to make the cap numbers work.

Assuming the three Habs waive their no-trades, when was the last time a team did a 5 (plus a pick) for 2 deal? Quantity for quality deals don't happen.

[dlbalr]

Almost every deal Serge Savard were multi-player deals. Houle did a lot of them - all though they were crappy. Gainey in his pursuit of Lecavalier would have made a real lousy multi-player deal.

The Thornton deal and the Seguin deals were both quantity for quality. The Phaneuf deal was very similar. The Stall trade was also very similar.

I actually think you are going to see more multi-player deals when team's are making a real hockey deal. Otherwise it's too difficult to make the cap numbers work.

Multi-player deals are one thing, 5-2 deals are another. Thornton was 3-1 (and widely criticized), Seguin 4-3 (really 3-2 if you take out the minor leaguers). The 'many for few' deals were more prevalent before but now with cap and 50-man roster restrictions, they will become nearly extinct. We'll see 3-2, 3-3 deals along the way - as you noted, those types will help balance the cap numbers - but that's a far different class than 5-2 (the quantity for quality swaps).

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Evander Kane is the guy I'd target. Signed for 5 more years.

If there is a way to get him without giving up Galy squared, maxpac, Markov, Subban, price, Eller, Tinordi and bealieau, I'd make the deal in a heartbeat. Yes, that means I'd include pleks in a deal for him.

Word is winnepeg, like Edmonton is looking to add veteran leadership and consistency.

Pleks, gorges, pateryn, Diaz, Bourque ,and a second for Kane and bogosian.

My guess is that Blake Wheeler will be the guy going out from Winnipeg. His comments recently should be giving Chevaldeyoff gray hairs. Comparing your team to the team you were traded from, in a negative light is the fast track to get traded, maybe that's his intention.

I don't think we get Kane for less than Plex/Markov/Pacioretty, and a 1st or a good prospect. As much as I dislike him, he's a dynamite player with a good cap hit going forward. Imagine what Pacioretty would get on the open market if he threw his weight around and fought five times a year?

[hab29RETIRED]

There's no way I'd give up that much for Kane. I certainly wouldn't include Maxpac, who has a much better contract and attitude.

If wheeler was available I'd snap him up. Winnepeg should be more worried about their useless coach.

My guess is that Blake Wheeler will be the guy going out from Winnipeg. His comments recently should be giving Chevaldeyoff gray hairs. Comparing your team to the team you were traded from, in a negative light is the fast track to get traded, maybe that's his intention.

I don't think we get Kane for less than Plex/Markov/Pacioretty, and a 1st or a good prospect. As much as I dislike him, he's a dynamite player with a good cap hit going forward. Imagine what Pacioretty would get on the open market if he threw his weight around and fought five times a year?

[hab29RETIRED]

Winnepeg has a lot of holes, the players I've listed are ones that would fill those holes - and create a huge hole for us in pleks, so I think getting a two 100% effort guys like gorges and pleks might entice them. If I'm MB, I'd even be willing to take a shorter term bad contract off their hands to make it work.

Multi-player deals are one thing, 5-2 deals are another. Thornton was 3-1 (and widely criticized), Seguin 4-3 (really 3-2 if you take out the minor leaguers). The 'many for few' deals were more prevalent before but now with cap and 50-man roster restrictions, they will become nearly extinct. We'll see 3-2, 3-3 deals along the way - as you noted, those types will help balance the cap numbers - but that's a far different class than 5-2 (the quantity for quality swaps).

[PMAC]

The problem with diaz, gorges, Plexs, pateryn, bourqe and a second for Kane and Bogozian is that it removes 4 roster players and brings back two. While Bogosian fills one of the d spots removing Patern and another D weakens our depth. Also, who replaces plex? I would love this trade if we found a way to entice Winnipeg without sacrificing PLex as I think that opens a much bigger hole in our line up than most people realize. This would be a great trade for a rebuilding club....not so much one that hopes to be a perennial contender within a season or two.

I don't see Winnipeg going for this as it sacrifices too much youth and potential for short -term help (Noel will be fired first, before a trade) and I can't see MB doing it because it is too big a disruption to the core and moves players we do not need to replace right now.

I could see diaz being moved if the contract talks stall. If the slump continues I would add Gio to the list of players who could be moved in addition to Borque--and Briere, if he becomes unhappy enough to waive his NT. However, what are teams going to offer for Gio, Bourque, Briere or Diaz? Only Diaz has much value and that is minimalized by his UFA status.Therefore, I don't see much happening on the trade front this season unless we collapse out of playoff contention.

If we are in the same place in the standings come the deadline, I could see MB moving a prospect and/or picks for some scoring depth similar to the deal Gainey made for Kovalev.

[nihilz]

I feel like AK46 would be flourishing at 28 yrs old on this current roster.

One of the few player I regret them giving up on before the team was even in a position to win.

[habs rule]

My guess is that Blake Wheeler will be the guy going out from Winnipeg. His comments recently should be giving Chevaldeyoff gray hairs. Comparing your team to the team you were traded from, in a negative light is the fast track to get traded, maybe that's his intention.

I don't think we get Kane for less than Plex/Markov/Pacioretty, and a 1st or a good prospect. As much as I dislike him, he's a dynamite player with a good cap hit going forward. Imagine what Pacioretty would get on the open market if he threw his weight around and fought five times a year?

wow that is a big overpayment. not a deal I would consider at all. Plex and good prospect yes.

I feel like AK46 would be flourishing at 28 yrs old on this current roster.

One of the few player I regret them giving up on before the team was even in a position to win.

unfortunately he still has not had the operation. The one removing his head form his a$$.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

unfortunately he still has not had the operation. The one removing his head form his a$$.

Kostitsyn had skills, and might have turned out differently had he developed on a team with strong internal leadership. Anything's possible. But talk about spilled milk. A guy who plays hard maybe 25% of the time goes out drinking all night before a key playoff game is NOT what we need. Just the opposite.

[nihilz]

Yep, thats what we get having Alex Kovalev mentor our young Russians.

Talking Perezhogin is spilled milk. Imo, Andrei would still be an improvement over Briere, Bourque, Desharnais and even Gionta. Buddy had mad skill, not just skill. Haven't seen a Hab go end to end and zoop defenders with ease since him.

I guess this is my plea into the nothingness of cyber space-ness for him to sign back here for minor monies. Perezhogin too while I'm knockin' over milk..

[dlbalr]

I guess this is my plea into the nothingness of cyber space-ness for him to sign back here for minor monies. Perezhogin too while I'm knockin' over milk..

Both those players are among the highest paid in the KHL though. (Perezhogin is around 4 M, Kostitsyn 2.5 or so.) They wouldn't come over for any less than that and it would likely require more. That's probably more than what you had in mind with minor monies.

[nihilz]

Both those players are among the highest paid in the KHL though. (Perezhogin is around 4 M, Kostitsyn 2.5 or so.) They wouldn't come over for any less than that and it would likely require more. That's probably more than what you had in mind with minor monies.

They'll be humbled by the opportunity to play with the new core of youth whilst Marc charms them to 3m each.(plea amendment 1.1)

With Briere and Rene at 7.3m.. its not so bad at all. Not that this is at all a likely or plausible scenario by any means what so very ever ever lmao.. a man may dream.

I will say this again. Martin Havlat.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Haha, Kostitsyn was no toolbox. Just tools. We got everything we possibly could out of him. He was a third line corner digger we got first line minutes out of.

[JMMR]

Yep, thats what we get having Alex Kovalev mentor our young Russians.

Talking Perezhogin is spilled milk. Imo, Andrei would still be an improvement over Briere, Bourque, Desharnais and even Gionta. Buddy had mad skill, not just skill. Haven't seen a Hab go end to end and zoop defenders with ease since him.

I guess this is my plea into the nothingness of cyber space-ness for him to sign back here for minor monies. Perezhogin too while I'm knockin' over milk..

I would love that.

Perez was my favourite #42 ever! He was even stellar in defensive role as part of the PBJ line.

[nihilz]

Blah blah He was a third line corner digger blah blah

Absurd.

[Link67]

there is way too much NHL 14 going on in here guys come on.

are we seriously talking about 6 - 8 man trades? this isn't the 1980's, and the Thornton trade happened nearly 10 years ago. Evander Kane is hardly worth Plekanec in points, never mind the defensive zone aspect or attitude and everything else being thrown in. Are we seriously that hooked on SIZE that we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot with silly trades?

Jesus am I glad MB is the GM and no one from here is, we'd be buggered in no time.

[nihilz]

there is way too much NHL 14 going on in here guys come on.

are we seriously talking about 6 - 8 man trades? this isn't the 1980's, and the Thornton trade happened nearly 10 years ago. Evander Kane is hardly worth Plekanec in points, never mind the defensive zone aspect or attitude and everything else being thrown in. Are we seriously that hooked on SIZE that we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot with silly trades?

Jesus am I glad MB is the GM and no one from here is, we'd be buggered in no time.

SO, you're saying your wouldn't trade Plek for Kane straight up..?

Oh and, btw.. this is the actual purpose of this actual thread. Btw, actually.

[JoeLassister]

SO, you're saying your wouldn't trade Plek for Kane straight up..?

I would not do it as long as we're in a race for a playoffs spot.

If we're out of a playoffs spot by trade deadline, I would consider giving Eller the remaining 20 games to grow up into the 2-way mode we'd need him to become because Plex's gone.

But I'm not coming into the playoffs without a shutdown C right away. Certainly not.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I would not do it as long as we're in a race for a playoffs spot.

If we're out of a playoffs spot by trade deadline, I would consider giving Eller the remaining 20 games to grow up into the 2-way mode we'd need him to become because Plex's gone.

But I'm not coming into the playoffs without a shutdown C right away. Certainly not.

That's reasonable. This is one of those trades which has no real reason to occur during the season, as opposed to the summer - at least as far as I can see. We'd be getting Kane, not for immediate help - short-term the trade would actually hurt us - but as part of a vision of emerging as a bona-fide contender within a couple of years. Theoretically, then, you can make the move after we're eliminated from the playoffs, then look to see if you can't add a seasoned veteran defensive C for insurance as Eller grows into the role next year. Anyway, the whole thing is probably fanciful.

[hab29RETIRED]

Depend which way you look at it. I'd make the move for three reasons. First to give Eller the rest of the year to get comfortable in the role. Second, adding a big body and another scorer would help offensively and in the playoffs. Lastly, getting Eller and Kane playoff experience for their intended roles.

I really think people are really underestimating Eller. I think he is more ready to step into a plek like role than most are giving him credit for.

However, there is no way we could get Kane at his age and contract for just Pleks. IMO, it would have to be a multi-player deal that I think would also have to include Gorges. Pleks and Gorges are two of the main peices the Jets need.

That's reasonable. This is one of those trades which has no real reason to occur during the season, as opposed to the summer - at least as far as I can see. We'd be getting Kane, not for immediate help - short-term the trade would actually hurt us - but as part of a vision of emerging as a bona-fide contender within a couple of years. Theoretically, then, you can make the move after we're eliminated from the playoffs, then look to see if you can't add a seasoned veteran defensive C for insurance as Eller grows into the role next year. Anyway, the whole thing is probably fanciful.

[Guest Stogey24]

Depend which way you look at it. I'd make the move for three reasons. First to give Eller the rest of the year to get comfortable in the role. Second, adding a big body and another scorer would help offensively and in the playoffs. Lastly, getting Eller and Kane playoff experience for their intended roles.

I really think people are really underestimating Eller. I think he is more ready to step into a plek like role than most are giving him credit for.

However, there is no way we could get Kane at his age and contract for just Pleks. IMO, it would have to be a multi-player deal that I think would also have to include Gorges. Pleks and Gorges are two of the main peices the Jets need.

Winnipeg has less than 2mill in cap space and they're thin on left wingers. Gorges and Plek really make no sense.

[hab29RETIRED]

Winnipeg has less than 2mill in cap space and they're thin on left winters. Gorges and Plek really make no sense.

They need a change in culture and personnel AND a new coach, before looking at addressing specific position. IMO, Gorges and Pleks would be the centre piece and bring in the leadership and work ethic they need. They can't play defense period.

Original deal I proposed was Pleks, Gorges, Bourque, Diaz, Pateryn (just over $13M) for Kane and Bogasian (just over $12M)

[Guest Stogey24]

They need a change in culture and personnel AND a new coach, before looking at addressing specific position. IMO, Gorges and Pleks would be the centre piece and bring in the leadership and work ethic they need. They can't play defense period.

Original deal I proposed was Pleks, Gorges, Bourque, Diaz, Pateryn (just over $13M) for Kane and Bogasian (just over $12M)

Quantity doesn't equal quality in this scenario. Plek, Gorges, and Bourque are ageing players. Plek is the only one with value to his name. Diaz is an UFA at the end of this year and Greg Pateryn has proven nothing. On the other side of he table there is Evander Kane, a power house forward who can play big minutes and get dirty. Zack Bogosian is a big strong point producing D-man who can bang bodies and log big minutes. Cheveldayoff has a head on his shoulders. He's not going to trade his top players for nothing.

(I just read the earlier posts. I guess this is mostly reiterating what has already been said).

Edited December 27, 2013 by Stogey24

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think Pleks and Kane could form the nucleus of an interesting package trade for both sides. Habs29 is right about that; Winnipeg desperately needs to solidify its roster and a guy like Plekanec (and/or Gorges) could do that, making 'em a playoff team sooner rather than later, which is what everyone in the Peg is crying for. Kane would give us that extra "impact forward" we need and don't seem to have in the system.

But once we start hypothesizing about additional players in the package, the variables start concatenating out of control. Best to focus on the core elements.

I'm not as optimistic as Habs29 that Eller could immediately step up and replace Pleks. Plekanec is a rare commodity, in my opinion - one of the very best two-way C in all of hockey, sort of a Datsyuk Lite. If we lose him, we might gain offence but we would take a significant and costly short-term dip in our 200-foot game, likely leading to more Ls. A trade involving Pleks for Kane is a move designed to pay off in a couple of years; I don't think we should kid ourselves about that.