PMAC Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Interesting debate: would Winnipeg bite on plex for Kane? Could eller step into plexs role right now? Or would such a trade disrupt our d and penalty killing to such an extent that even with more offense we suffer more losses? I think, as others have noted, that Winnipeg would not trade Kane one for one (and I think will fire Noel before trading Kane). However, I am ambivalent about such a deal. While Kane has an appealing skill set, I am not sure trading a forward who can neutralize Sid the Kid while driving him to distraction is the best plan for a contending team. Yes, I am in the minority that believe we are going to contend in the near term, not two or three years away so, I would look for MB to add players without subtracting significantly from our core. I can't wait to see how our GM charts the course going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 SO, you're saying your wouldn't trade Plek for Kane straight up..? Oh and, btw.. this is the actual purpose of this actual thread. Btw, actually. I can't help but picture you looking like your avatar while you are saying this, but anyway.. No i would not make this trade, simply because we would be trading away similar point production, with less cap hit, for a bigger one dimensional player. Plekanec is one of maybe 5 or 6 two way forwards in the league capable of putting up 55+ points a season, Kane is one of 30+ players capable of scoring 25 goals a season. Would I like to have Kane, of course, he is a big kid, with a nice scoring touch, but if it is going to cost me my most effective forward, I say no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Dont kill me for this but what could we get for Markov at the deadline? 1st plus nearly NHL-ready prospect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Dont kill me for this but what could we get for Markov at the deadline? 1st plus nearly NHL-ready prospect? I think depends on what teams see him as, just as a rental, or as a key top 4 d-man to extend for next 2-3 years? Rangers are always wheeling and dealing (with very little success), Bruins, Detroit, Blues, Kings may see him as a nice target to add for playoff run? I don't know exactly how much he would be worth, I wouldn't ship him out for much less than what you proposed. But, I don't think he is going anywhere and exactly what he demands for extension, same as Diaz, will determine which way Bergevin goes with contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Dont kill me for this but what could we get for Markov at the deadline? 1st plus nearly NHL-ready prospect? With his cap hit, the Habs would need to take salary back. Whether that's another pending UFA or someone with multiple years left would affect the rest of the return. The same can be said for any high priced player getting dealt this year with the cap where it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 With his cap hit, the Habs would need to take salary back. Whether that's another pending UFA or someone with multiple years left would affect the rest of the return. The same can be said for any high priced player getting dealt this year with the cap where it is. Teams like Anaheim, Phoenix & Minnesota could very comfortably add Markov without taking on any salary no? Isn't there more cap space available at the trade deadline for most teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Teams like Anaheim, Phoenix & Minnesota could very comfortably add Markov without taking on any salary no? Isn't there more cap space available at the trade deadline for most teams? Anaheim and Phoenix might - barring any injuries that require callups - have enough but their ownerships won't allow them to take on that without shedding salary since both are budget teams. Minnesota is a definite maybe, they have quite a few ELC guys with bonuses on their team. Assuming they're gearing up for a run at Vanek as many assume, they likely can't afford a cap overage due to bonuses. As a result, the deadline day cap space you see on Capgeek is inflated somewhat, much like it is with the Habs for that matter. They might still be able to afford him but it'd be somewhat tight and again, injuries could affect their numbers between now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 What do you guys think of a Bourque for McGinn (COL) deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The Avs need D or a shut down center. Bourque doesn't fit there needs. More likely looking for a player like Pleks, Markov to anchor the PP> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 What do you guys think of a Bourque for McGinn (COL) deal? I think it's somewhat feasible. McGinn's the cheaper deal now but as a pending RFA, his next contract will up his cap hit to around where Bourque's is. McGinn is more of the prototypical 3rd line physical player that they probably want Bourque to be. From Colorado's standpoint, scoring beyond the top two lines has been an issue lately, they're a top-heavy team. Bourque would be more likely to give them that 'tertiary scoring' than McGinn. It also gives them a bit of offensive insurance to hedge against Stastny's potential departure and the murky situation with O'Reilly and his particularly high QO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Teams like Anaheim, Phoenix & Minnesota could very comfortably add Markov without taking on any salary no? Isn't there more cap space available at the trade deadline for most teams? Anaheim is supposed to be looking for defense, and I would really like to see him, Koivu, Souray and Beauchemin reunited. And let's face it, that's the closest we'really going to get to May hockey as Canadiens fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 This team is seriously in need of a shakeup. The current mix of players is heading down the same collapse as last year. MB needs to grow a pair and make some bold moves. We only have one guy who consistently crashes the net and that's Gallegher, who also happens to be the 2nd or 3rd smallest guy on the team. We need at least two lines with a guy that can crash the net. I'm tired of seeing Gionta, DD, Bourque up front. Unfortunately none of these guys probably has any real value and wod require us to take an equally bad contract bad (which would be stupid in the case Gionta). That leaves with Pleks as the only real trade able forward that could get us another big winger. The other change I'd like to see is with the coach. I know most here would disagree, but the inability of MT to adjust the PP is reason enough. But when you factor in the minuscule time Galchenyuk and Eller get on the PP, while a useless bum like Bourque or a washed up Gionta are getting regular turns, you really have to question the intelligence of MT. This isn't as bad as Martin playing Darche and Moen on the PP, but a lot if his decisions are looking ludicrous. His comment about the habs being a grinding team are nonsense, they don't have the horses to successfully deploy a grinding game. The last three games have been crap efforts and this team looks to be heading to the same finish as last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I think the problem is timing. Earlier in the season Bergevin didn't want to give up the asking prices when the team was hot. Now the team is struggling so the asking prices have likely increased. He has to decide on who is expendable and who isn't, and if the team can afford to give up draft picks and prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 The other change I'd like to see is with the coach. I know most here would disagree, but the inability of MT to adjust the PP is reason enough. But when you factor in the minuscule time Galchenyuk and Eller get on the PP, while a useless bum like Bourque or a washed up Gionta are getting regular turns, you really have to question the intelligence of MT. Worth noting here is that Galchenyuk has the second highest TOI on the PP of anyone on the team (second to Gallagher). Eller is within 7 seconds per game of Gionta and 4 seconds to Bourque. If Bourque and Gionta are getting regular turns, so too is Eller. In lieu of cheers and jeers in my HW Recap tonight (with only the two weekend games, there isn't enough to talk about), I'm going to dig into the forward usage with the man advantage. Some of the results will surprise many of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Given Fucale's performance in World Junior championship, and the fact that we got a pretty solid number one goalie with a few years left, would you trade him for a lottery pick this year if somebody ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Given Fucale's performance in World Junior championship, and the fact that we got a pretty solid number one goalie with a few years left, would you trade him for a lottery pick this year if somebody ask? There is no way anyone is going to give a lottery pick for Fucale. WJC's have a long history of great goaltending performances by guys that were NHL busts or couldn't come close to replicating their WJC success at the NHL level. I can't even see anyone giving up Fucale and Beaulieu for a lottery pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 There is no way anyone is going to give a lottery pick for Fucale. WJC's have a long history of great goaltending performances by guys that were NHL busts or couldn't come close to replicating their WJC success at the NHL level. I can't even see anyone giving up Fucale and Beaulieu for a lottery pick. So true. Pogge anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 There is no way anyone is going to give a lottery pick for Fucale. WJC's have a long history of great goaltending performances by guys that were NHL busts or couldn't come close to replicating their WJC success at the NHL level. I can't even see anyone giving up Fucale and Beaulieu for a lottery pick. Okay, I agree, I will rephrase the question. How much more value (from a early second) to where you would pick him today. how much has his value increased with his performance and presence in the world junior championships? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 i think that the list of successful WJC goalies significantly outweighs the pogge's of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 i think that the list of successful WJC goalies significantly outweighs the pogge's of the world. I am sure GMs/Scouts attending the game were impressed, but not sure his value would change a lot if any? Other than maybe goalie-challenged and struggling teams eyeing him up a bit for sure. But he won QMJHL playoffs and memorial cup just before draft and even star goalies just are so hard to project, like a Raycroft winning calder trophy and then busting enough for Leafs to trade Rask to Bruins for him. Fucale is an asset though and if he was included in a trade package deal, I wouldn't be shocked, just disappointed unless return in package is an All-Star forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 i think that the list of successful WJC goalies significantly outweighss the pogge's of the world. The only goalies that are starters right now in the NHL that started for Canada between 2000 and 2007 are Fleury and Price. The only other NHLers were Auld and Leclaire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Okay, I agree, I will rephrase the question. How much more value (from a early second) to where you would pick him today. how much has his value increased with his performance and presence in the world junior championships? I'd say a team looking for a top goalie propect and who isn't enamoured with the selections available would give up a late first-rounder. But this is a pretty specific scenario, and it's not like Fucale is the top goalie prospect out there right now (although he might be the top at his age). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The only goalies that are starters right now in the NHL that started for Canada between 2000 and 2007 are Fleury and Price. The only other NHLers were Auld and Leclaire. i did mean WJC goalies overall and not just Canada. with that said there is only 60+ goalie jobs in the NHL and id bet 90%of them played in world juniors. but world juniors has new goalies every year or so 2009 pickard/ tokarski(hab) 08 jodion 07 price 07 super series bernier/ mason 06 pogge/ dubnyk 05 beauchimen* 04fleury/ harding 03fleury 02 leclaire 01 auld 2000 finley 99 luongo 98 luongo 97 biron 96 denis/ theo 95cloutier 94fernandez 93derouyville/ legace 92kidd 91potvin 90fiset 89fiset 88 hackett 87cujo 86 burke 85billington 84wreggett 83 vernon basically just looking at canada alone over 20 years and not even counting the kids from 2008-2013 who haven't even got a sniff of goal at the NHL level, pretty much every goalie has played in the NHL for a significant amount of time outside of beauchimen, pogge(dubynk), finley and derouyville(legace). obviously there not all elite goalies but dissecting it a little more you'll see every 3 years or so a strong goalie comes out of Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 A pure guess on my part with regards to the Buffalo - Montreal rumour. My guess: Briere for Stafford, provided Briere waives his NMC. Why for Montreal? Stafford is a better fit on the right wing than Briere and adds some needed size to the table...and inconsistency which means he'll fit right in. If Briere is going to be a scratch moving forward, it's going to become a constant feeding frenzy until the situation resolves itself. Why for Buffalo? Even though they're rebuilding, some veterans are needed. Briere is loved in Buffalo and the Sabres are ridiculously thin down the middle. I don't think Briere would waive his NMC to too many places but this would probably be one of them. If Briere could re-discover his game, it's a smart buy-low. Before anyone asks, both players have one year past this one on their deals at an identical cap hit of $4 M so the money is a wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 A pure guess on my part with regards to the Buffalo - Montreal rumour. My guess: Briere for Stafford, provided Briere waives his NMC. Why for Montreal? Stafford is a better fit on the right wing than Briere and adds some needed size to the table...and inconsistency which means he'll fit right in. If Briere is going to be a scratch moving forward, it's going to become a constant feeding frenzy until the situation resolves itself. Why for Buffalo? Even though they're rebuilding, some veterans are needed. Briere is loved in Buffalo and the Sabres are ridiculously thin down the middle. I don't think Briere would waive his NMC to too many places but this would probably be one of them. If Briere could re-discover his game, it's a smart buy-low. Before anyone asks, both players have one year past this one on their deals at an identical cap hit of $4 M so the money is a wash. to get rid of Briere I would jump on it. Stafford is no hell but he is not a smurf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.