Commandant Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 To some teams the UFA status actually adds value. Only in the sense that they will trade for UFAs and not be able to take on long term contracts, and totally ignore those guys. Its not something that really means they will give up more assets for the UFAs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehabbit Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The market is very inflated this year, would anyone have expected Downey to fetch a first? Given, this was in a roundabout way through Quincey, but still. Kosty is right at the top of available rental forwards this year and that usually brings a first or a real nice package in a normal year. What could he bring this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The market is very inflated this year, would anyone have expected Downey to fetch a first? Given, this was in a roundabout way through Quincey, but still. Kosty is right at the top of available rental forwards this year and that usually brings a first or a real nice package in a normal year. What could he bring this year? I don't know that he's right at the top of available rental forwards... I gotta think the top 2 are Hemsky and Ruutu, and he's at best a plan C for teams. The decision on whether or not Ruutu will be traded is apparently coming down today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 TSN is saying Kostitsyn would be a top five winger for trade bait this year. That's also with them including guys like Van Riemsdyk and Nash on the list, who might not actually be moved. He'll get at least a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No way is Kostitsyn out of shape. Did you not see the pictures of that guy out of training camp? Man looked like he could pull a jet around that torseau. He may be some of the things people accuse him of being, but in no way is Kostitsyn in bad shape. TSN is saying Kostitsyn would be a top five winger for trade bait this year. That's also with them including guys like Van Riemsdyk and Nash on the list, who might not actually be moved. He'll get at least a second. Honestly, unless he gets a lot more than a 2nd, there is no point in moving him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't know that he's right at the top of available rental forwards... I gotta think the top 2 are Hemsky and Ruutu, and he's at best a plan C for teams. The decision on whether or not Ruutu will be traded is apparently coming down today. Looks like Ruutu is signing a 4 year deal for about 4 million per season in Carolina, so that helps things. Question is though, does AK become plan B, or are teams looking at non-rentals like Nash, Carter and others ahead of him too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Antoine Vermette traded to the Yotes for a 2nd and a 5th and minor league goalie... guess thats about what we get for kosty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Looks like Ruutu is signing a 4 year deal for about 4 million per season in Carolina, so that helps things. Question is though, does AK become plan B, or are teams looking at non-rentals like Nash, Carter and others ahead of him too? I don't think either of them would effect AK in a negative way, in fact if one of them should go, his value might go up unless PG is in the running for one them. That might change things abit. As you point, they are a different kettle of fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Antoine Vermette traded to the Yotes for a 2nd and a 5th and minor league goalie... guess thats about what we get for kosty... Another non rental forward and also a two way centre. Not sure its a direct comparable. =================== On a separate note Ruutu got 4.75 million per season for 4 years. That seems to set a monetary value for Kostitsyn that is above what any of us want to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Antoine Vermette traded to the Yotes for a 2nd and a 5th and minor league goalie... guess thats about what we get for kosty... Sounds good to me. I'd rather trade Kostitsyn for the future than continue holding onto perceived potential for a third of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Sounds good to me. I'd rather trade Kostitsyn for the future than continue holding onto perceived potential for a third of the season. I'd want prospects closer to being NHL ready more then picks. 2nd round picks won't help us in the next 2 years, I think next season but more specifically the season after that is when Montreal could be really competitive and I'd like to see prospects who could come up and play around that time. We have guys coming up from the minors who will play a season in the AHL but I think more forward depth in the way of prospects would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'd want prospects closer to being NHL ready more then picks. 2nd round picks won't help us in the next 2 years, I think next season but more specifically the season after that is when Montreal could be really competitive and I'd like to see prospects who could come up and play around that time. We have guys coming up from the minors who will play a season in the AHL but I think more forward depth in the way of prospects would be better. I should mention I want a 2nd Round in 2013 from either Moen or Kostitsyn. If Montreal's perceived poopiness is exaggerated and the team makes a playoff calibre turnaround, that pick is now extra for next years deadline to net a guy for the playoffs. If Montreal's perceived poopiness is true and the team is going to be bottom five again next season, that pick goes right to a potential roster player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Kostitsyn for a 2nd is a waste. I'd rather have him back at 3,25$ than a 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Kostitsyn for a 2nd is a waste. I'd rather have him back at 3,25$ than a 2nd. If he was willing to take the same price as he was getting this season, he'd be signed already, either now or through a multi-year deal last offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Another non rental forward and also a two way centre. Not sure its a direct comparable. =================== On a separate note Ruutu got 4.75 million per season for 4 years. That seems to set a monetary value for Kostitsyn that is above what any of us want to pay. Habs29 is the litmus test for Kostitsyn supporters. Habs29, do you pay 4.75/4 years for Kostitsyn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Another non rental forward and also a two way centre. Not sure its a direct comparable. =================== On a separate note Ruutu got 4.75 million per season for 4 years. That seems to set a monetary value for Kostitsyn that is above what any of us want to pay. Ruutu >>> Kostitsyn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Ruutu >>> Kostitsyn Yeah, he's more physical than Kostitsyn. I'd have to follow him more closely to work out whether he is massively more consistent offensively. Statistically their careers are almost identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yeah, he's more physical than Kostitsyn. I'd have to follow him more closely to work out whether he is massively more consistent offensively. Statistically their careers are almost identical. Hmm toss up. But they would make similar money for sure. Kostitsyn has a little better production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes. That would be my limit though. Frankly, I think we can get him for less. 5 yrs/$20m, with a $5m payment in July 1 would be the deal I'd be trying to make. From a time value of money perspective AK46 gets an immigrate $5m + $3m over the year. We then also start acting like a big revenue team by using the CBA to our advantage. If we decide down the road to move him, his actual salary of $3m becomes very attractive to other teams. Habs29 is the litmus test for Kostitsyn supporters. Habs29, do you pay 4.75/4 years for Kostitsyn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Its funny. I just watched Moneyball and the parallels to hockey are interesting. Overpaying for stars has always been dicey. The Rangers were classic examples of this in the past. I don't want to pay that price for AK. He is replaceable for less. MaxPac is already better then AK by a country mile. Lets use our money to lock up the core players on the team. AK is not one of them. If he wants to play for a reasonable price, fine. If he wants Ruutu money, I hope he finds it elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cole at 4.5 was considered a gamble... now that has paid off nicely.. but people want to give AK more? Giving AK more than Cole is crazy. This is from some of the same people who see Kaberle's 4.25 as a crippling contract and he's a dman who puts up as many pts as AK, and we want to give AK more money? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Its funny. I just watched Moneyball and the parallels to hockey are interesting. Overpaying for stars has always been dicey. The Rangers were classic examples of this in the past. I don't want to pay that price for AK. He is replaceable for less. MaxPac is already better then AK by a country mile. Lets use our money to lock up the core players on the team. AK is not one of them. If he wants to play for a reasonable price, fine. If he wants Ruutu money, I hope he finds it elsewhere. How long did it take to develop Maxpac??? Who are you going to replace AK46 with NEXT year. how much is that player going to cost - we just saw what the price is with Rhuttu. I watched moneyball as well. What have the A's done since that big year of ALMOST getting over the hump??? We ARE like the yankees. we are not the Canes, or the coyoted, who should be using the moneyball approach. I want to win next year. That means improving on this year's lineup (dump Gomez - replace with a bag of pucks, Kaberle/Campoli - replace with players can play defense and bring some grit, Darche - open up roster spot, Niko - open up roster spot, Moen - replace with another 4th line player and add draft picks for the future). Next year, hope to get a top 3 pick and pick up the center we've waited over 20 years for. Frankly, i'd rather see if there is someone willing to bite on Bourqe and resign Ak46. Next year: AK46-Pleks-Leblanc DD-Eller-MaxPac Cole-galen/gironk-Gionta White-replacment C - Geoffrion Markov-Emelin Subban-Markov New D/New D Diaz/Weber Price new backup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cole at 4.5 was considered a gamble... now that has paid off nicely.. but people want to give AK more? Giving AK more than Cole is crazy. This is from some of the same people who see Kaberle's 4.25 as a crippling contract and he's a dman who puts up as many pts as AK, and we want to give AK more money? Ruttu's signing just raised the cost of doing business. Kaberle is a one dimensional player, only useful on the PP. Can't play regular defense and doesn't hit. AK46 can give us 25 goals and bring a physical presance. As i've said, i think we can resign Ak46 for $4M, but if necessary, you may have to go higher now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes. That would be my limit though. Frankly, I think we can get him for less. 5 yrs/$20m, with a $5m payment in July 1 would be the deal I'd be trying to make. From a time value of money perspective AK46 gets an immigrate $5m + $3m over the year. We then also start acting like a big revenue team by using the CBA to our advantage. If we decide down the road to move him, his actual salary of $3m becomes very attractive to other teams. You would pay that much for a guy who disappears for months on end? I would pay that much for a guy who puts effort into every single game AND has production to show for it (Pacioretty, Cole, Gionta...). I would resign Kostitsyn for what he's making now. It's about right for a third liner who can score. If he wants more, then he can be someone else's problem. I'll gladly give his (meager) ice time to Gallagher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's Habs29 vs everybody else. There isn't any point on debating him on this topic, the man is set in his AK loving ways. Like I said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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