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I don't know about Halak being traded too early

Consider this

2010 Free Agent Signings.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=63235

In the summer of 2010 the teams looking for a number 1 goalie or at least a tandem guy were... Philadelphia, St. Louis, San Jose, Chicago

UFA Goalies were Marty Turco, Evgeni Nabokov, Anterro Nittymakki, Chris Mason, Brian Boucher, Antti Niemi (Boucher and Niemi were cup finalists), Martin Biron, Jose Theodore, Dan Ellis, Johan Hedberg,

Nittymakki, Mason, Turco, Theodore, Ellis, and Biron went from starters to backups and took serious pay cuts.

Boucher and Hedberg remained backups.

Nabokov couldn't get the deal he wanted and went to Russia

The market for goalies was really weak in Free Agency and plenty of options, stop gaps, and former starters were available.

The longer you held onto Halak you were taking a risk that teams like San Jose, Philly, St. Louis, Chicago filled their vacancies in free agency.

You very well could have ended up with a situation where you needed to trade one of your goalies (due to Halak and Price both needing to be paid) and have only 1 or even no teams wanting one. This would have mean your offers would have come in ridiculously low balled.

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I don't know about Halak being traded too early

Consider this

2010 Free Agent Signings.

http://www.nhl.com/i...ge.htm?id=63235

In the summer of 2010 the teams looking for a number 1 goalie or at least a tandem guy were... Philadelphia, St. Louis, San Jose, Chicago

UFA Goalies were Marty Turco, Evgeni Nabokov, Anterro Nittymakki, Chris Mason, Brian Boucher, Antti Niemi (Boucher and Niemi were cup finalists), Martin Biron, Jose Theodore, Dan Ellis, Johan Hedberg,

Nittymakki, Mason, Turco, Theodore, Ellis, and Biron went from starters to backups and took serious pay cuts.

Boucher and Hedberg remained backups.

Nabokov couldn't get the deal he wanted and went to Russia

The market for goalies was really weak in Free Agency and plenty of options, stop gaps, and former starters were available.

The longer you held onto Halak you were taking a risk that teams like San Jose, Philly, St. Louis, Chicago filled their vacancies in free agency.

You very well could have ended up with a situation where you needed to trade one of your goalies (due to Halak and Price both needing to be paid) and have only 1 or even no teams wanting one. This would have mean your offers would have come in ridiculously low balled.

Thats why we should have kept the better goalie and trade price and got more! haha just messin with ya. cheers
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I don't know about Halak being traded too early

Consider this

2010 Free Agent Signings.

http://www.nhl.com/i...ge.htm?id=63235

In the summer of 2010 the teams looking for a number 1 goalie or at least a tandem guy were... Philadelphia, St. Louis, San Jose, Chicago

UFA Goalies were Marty Turco, Evgeni Nabokov, Anterro Nittymakki, Chris Mason, Brian Boucher, Antti Niemi (Boucher and Niemi were cup finalists), Martin Biron, Jose Theodore, Dan Ellis, Johan Hedberg,

Nittymakki, Mason, Turco, Theodore, Ellis, and Biron went from starters to backups and took serious pay cuts.

Boucher and Hedberg remained backups.

Nabokov couldn't get the deal he wanted and went to Russia

The market for goalies was really weak in Free Agency and plenty of options, stop gaps, and former starters were available.

The longer you held onto Halak you were taking a risk that teams like San Jose, Philly, St. Louis, Chicago filled their vacancies in free agency.

You very well could have ended up with a situation where you needed to trade one of your goalies (due to Halak and Price both needing to be paid) and have only 1 or even no teams wanting one. This would have mean your offers would have come in ridiculously low balled.

I know this argument, but Halak was better then most of the guys you mentioned. Boucher??? Please. :)

My point is that it has been documented many times that Halak was dumped to St. Louis before most teams even had a chance to make an offer. This has become a theme with the Habs lately and it is not the way to do business. If they had shopped him around a bit, I suspect the worse case deal is the one we got. We will never know if we could have gotten more because we didn't try. PG himself stated that he didn't call around, he just called St. Louis.

The key to success is to identify your core. If you have a guy who is not in your core and is having a great season, you should be taking offers. Don't sell him cheap, but sucker someone into over paying. I don't see DD as one of our center when we win the cup. I suspect he will take a step back next year and be worth less. Its just an opinion, but I see all the signs. It is possible however that most GMs feel the same way and will underbid on him.

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Bob McKenzie tweeted on the day of the trade that we got offers from 4 teams on Halak including SJ and Philly. I still think Mcguire's comments that he was never shopped are just part of his long held grudge against PG for firing him in Ottawa.

And yes Halak may have been the best goalie available but he was still someone you had to trade for where the other guys were UFAs coming for free. There was a point where what PG held out for would drive teams to sign UFAs. The market had as much potential to shrink as it did to get into a bidding war.

PG also never said that St. Louis was the only team he called. He merely said that Eller was a guy he targetted from the Blues. Tampering rules prevent him from saying who he asked for from other teams.

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Bob McKenzie tweeted on the day of the trade that we got offers from 4 teams on Halak including SJ and Philly. I still think Mcguire's comments that he was never shopped are just part of his long held grudge against PG for firing him in Ottawa.

And yes Halak may have been the best goalie available but he was still someone you had to trade for where the other guys were UFAs coming for free. There was a point where what PG held out for would drive teams to sign UFAs. The market had as much potential to shrink as it did to get into a bidding war.

PG also never said that St. Louis was the only team he called. He merely said that Eller was a guy he targetted from the Blues. Tampering rules prevent him from saying who he asked for from other teams.

Really, the Halak trade was more another example of the organizations lack of media skills.

The weakest offer made should have been leaked to the media to compare to the Eller trade so people went, "Hey there were offers and so far we heard this deal and boy am I glad Gauthier took the St. Louis deal!"

Instead, everything is kept silent and that allows dorks like Pierre McGuire to spew non-journalism all over the trade which people to this say believe.

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I would have tried to keep Halak if there were no offers. Boston seems to have managed to keep Rask and Thomas. Then, when he was signed to a reasonable contract after failing to get a decent offer from around the league, I would trade him later to one of those desperate teams.

regardless, Halak is just one example to my main point, which is that the strong teams have a history of better asset management then us, and this is purely the job of the GM.

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Rask only makes 1.25 million or just slightly more than Budaj. Halak was arbitration eligible and due for a big raise. Rask is arbitration eligible this summer and thaty might force the issue in Boston, but it also might not as Rask doesn't have the same numbers Halak did, especially the playoff numbers headed into his arbitation case (if he goes). Halak wasn't getting a "reasonable" contract bexause the arbitrator would have paid him. Remember that was the same summer Antti Niemi with worse playoff numbers got 3mill in arbitration and the Hawks walked away. Niemi might have won the cup, but his playoff numbers were actually not as good as Halaks.

The big issue here was the cap cost. Now tell me, would we be a better team with a halk/price tandem, no erik cole (no cap space for him) and no lars eller?

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Well, all I can say about Commandant's very solid defence of the Halak trade is that it's a bit strange for a team like ours, which has been so dodgy in managing the cap, suddenly to be very prim about cap management when it comes to goaltending. It's a bit like Gainey's defence of the Huet trade, where a guy who had happily allowed assets to walk suddenly got all insistent that you *had* to get some sort of return for Huet even though it left us with an untested, exposed young goalie in net for the playoff drive. Huh?

That being said, I don't quite understand why we would need Halak. Rask makes sense in Boston because Thomas is an older veteran on borrowed time. By contrast, with Price we have a guy who can give you quality goaltending for 60+ games per season for at least the next 10 years. I just don't understand the point of keeping another guy around who wants 40+ starts under those circumstances. Really, the situation would be unfair to both players; if both are legit #1s, then you're condemning one of them to long-term insecurity and second-banana status...for what, exactly? Just to have some added insurance in case the other one suffers a serious injury or goes through a little slump?

What we really need behind Price at this point is not Halak, but a very young, promising netminder who will happily accept second-banana status as part of his learning curve. Like Schneider in Vancouver (another potential #1 who is guaranteed to be dealt at some point, for many of the same reasons, but who has been willing to play his backup role up to this point).

As for Halak vs. Price...isn't it time we got over it? This isn't Ribeiro for Niniimaa or Grabovski for a used jock strap. For God's sake move on.

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I think we need a solid veteran behind Price who accepts the number 2 role but is reliable (unlike Auld/Budaj)

A guy like Biron, or Garon, or someone like that. I'd like a youngster drafted this year too (2nd-4th round) because the youngster still has 2 years of Junior plus 2-3 years of AHL before he's ready. A goalie who isnt a phenom like Price is a 4-5 year project.

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I doubt if either Biron or Garon would accept playing only a few games behind Price and especially here in Montreal. Other then that, good idea and choices.

I agree that is the problem.

But its also the problem with having a Schneider type behind Price too.

Makes it tough to get a good backup

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I think we need a solid veteran behind Price who accepts the number 2 role but is reliable (unlike Auld/Budaj)

A guy like Biron, or Garon, or someone like that. I'd like a youngster drafted this year too (2nd-4th round) because the youngster still has 2 years of Junior plus 2-3 years of AHL before he's ready. A goalie who isnt a phenom like Price is a 4-5 year project.

Maybe next year the phenom can throw this team on his back and take us all the way to 26th or maybe even 25th place. I agree with you on a better back up thats why the rags picked up Biron to lighten the load on the king because they get burnt out. But phenom? so if he keeps putting up these numbers over then next 5 years at 7 million a yr which you guy's would give him maybe more does he go to the hall of fame? Lets see him steal a few rounds or take us to the cup before he gets that label.
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Have to admit Im not as secure watching the habs with Price in net as I was when we had super Theodore back in 2002. Love that playoffgame against the Bruins where they outshot us 45-something to below 20 and we won 2-1 I think... It really felt like we would win even with the Bruins having all sorts of chances.

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By phenom i was referring to the skills that made him a top 5 pick and had him in the NHL at age 20.

Most goalies are gonna take till they are 22-23 to be ready.

I would agree he has it in him to be great and show flashes of this. I just wish he would stay up longer, he is a big goalie and moves well i just find he commits early but when you get a lot of shots like he does and very few clear the net in front of him.
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We could keep Price tot 60 games and let a backup play 20. I think it would be better for Price and keep him fresh going into the playoffs.

We need a solid backup goalie which is why I wouldn't mind getting a decent prospect who would be eager for any games they get.

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We could keep Price tot 60 games and let a backup play 20. I think it would be better for Price and keep him fresh going into the playoffs.

We need a solid backup goalie which is why I wouldn't mind getting a decent prospect who would be eager for any games they get.

Drafting a goalie and getting a prospect is a good idea, but the problem is it will take 4-5 years before he's ready to play even 20 games per year. Thats why I think you have to go after a veteran backup type.

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Drafting a goalie and getting a prospect is a good idea, but the problem is it will take 4-5 years before he's ready to play even 20 games per year. Thats why I think you have to go after a veteran backup type.

The team likely won't get rid of Budaj so you'll have to look at the year after.

The three goalies I'd be considering would be Scott Clemmenson, Martin Biron (if NY ever lets him go) and Tomas Vokoun. If one is available as a UFA the summer of 2013 you make a decent backup arrangement.

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The team likely won't get rid of Budaj so you'll have to look at the year after.

The three goalies I'd be considering would be Scott Clemmenson, Martin Biron (if NY ever lets him go) and Tomas Vokoun. If one is available as a UFA the summer of 2013 you make a decent backup arrangement.

No to Biron. You can't have a Quebecois backup in this city. We all know why.
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No to Biron. You can't have a Quebecois backup in this city. We all know why.

Yeah that makes sense, I'm also not sure vokoun is ready to be a backup either. Budaj is back next year so its a ways before we think about it, but there needs to be more quality in our next choice.

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By the way, I didn't want to keep Halak, I would have signed him and then traded him later. A signed goalie like Halak would have been worth more even if it was an arbitration award. Many people think Burke signed Grabs because there was a market for him and he will get more later now that he is signed. It isn't because he sees him as a leaf long term.

As for draft / prospect, I think we need a vet short term, but we need to start grooming a backup. A prospect with a year or two in the minors would cut a couple years off the development time.

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By the way, I didn't want to keep Halak, I would have signed him and then traded him later. A signed goalie like Halak would have been worth more even if it was an arbitration award. Many people think Burke signed Grabs because there was a market for him and he will get more later now that he is signed. It isn't because he sees him as a leaf long term.

As for draft / prospect, I think we need a vet short term, but we need to start grooming a backup. A prospect with a year or two in the minors would cut a couple years off the development time.

Tough to acquire a prospect goalie who has already had some seasoning in the minors and looks promising. Teams typically aren't selling those. The one thing you can do though, is go out and sign a college or euro UFA who looks good if you want an older prospect. The contracts with Mayer and Delmas kinda gum up that from happening though. You'd pretty much need to guarantee that the college or euro UFA is far enough along in his development that he could immediately step in to the Nathan Lawson role (Hamilton starter and 3rd goalie in the organization). This is why I think you draft an 18 year old, he'll spend two years in the CHL and then when he's ready for the AHL, Mayer and Delmas are long gone.

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As for a sign and trade with Halak, the problem is that the UFA goalies became available July 1st and arbitration for Halak would have been the last week of July/early August. Teams weren't going to wait that long before trading for him. They were gonna at least sign somebody because no one wants to be the GM who gets left without a goalie in September.

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