Commandant Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Let's focus on Martin the coach. Florida he spent one season as coach, with a pretty bad roster, and his predecessor and his successor both missed the playoffs. He also had the goaltending tandem of a washed up Eddie belfour and Alex auld. He then took over the GM role, and I agree he's not cut out to be a GM, but let's not overrate one season in Florida for a guy who has over 600 career wins, and missed the playoffs how many times? Interestingly, he was fired in Ottawa for "not getting them over the top". That's true but his successors couldn't do it either. The team never had a goalie in all those years. Even when they got Hasek it was after Martin was already gone. Ron Tugnutt and Patrick Lalime don't inspire playoff confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Commandant, as always, you have a gift for debating. Great stuff. But at some point you'll have to admit there's more to it than stats. I never "called" for Jacques to be fired, and I wasn't thrilled with the way it was done. But as more info comes out, it's clear it had to be done. You suggested Spacek might be disgruntled. Possibly. But I didn't get that from the interview. If anything, I feel as if he's speaking for many players on the current team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 When it comes down to it, getting rid of Jacques Martin ensured the team would finish as low as possible in the standings. If it was a decision made to make the Canadiens better it surely failed. If it was a decision to ensure the team could place strong for the draft, re-evaluate and regroup for the next year, it was a success. So much done by Gauthier in the past season seemed desperate and short sighted. That includes firing Martin, replacing him with Cunnyworth, trading for Kaberle, adding Campoli and trading Cammalleri mid game. The only moves he made which were strong was when the pressure of the season was over, as I felt the Kostitsyn and Gill trades along with adding Staubitz were his best moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Commandant, as always, you have a gift for debating. Great stuff. But at some point you'll have to admit there's more to it than stats. I never "called" for Jacques to be fired, and I wasn't thrilled with the way it was done. But as more info comes out, it's clear it had to be done. You suggested Spacek might be disgruntled. Possibly. But I didn't get that from the interview. If anything, I feel as if he's speaking for many players on the current team. Even if we assume Spacek was not disgruntled. Spacek is saying what exactly? That he would have coached the team differently. Again the question that hasn't been answered is, what makes Spacek's views on style of play and style of coaching more relevant than the coach himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Even if we assume Spacek was not disgruntled. Spacek is saying what exactly? That he would have coached the team differently. Again the question that hasn't been answered is, what makes Spacek's views on style of play and style of coaching more relevant than the coach himself? They're not necessarily more relevant but we're talking about a player who has played a long time in the NHL plus internationally. He has played for a lot of coaches and in a lot of systems so I think he's at least qualified to offer up his two cents with respect to the systems and strategies the Habs had while he was in Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 They're not necessarily more relevant but we're talking about a player who has played a long time in the NHL plus internationally. He has played for a lot of coaches and in a lot of systems so I think he's at least qualified to offer up his two cents with respect to the systems and strategies the Habs had while he was in Montreal. Sure he should offer his opinion, and sure its good to listen to... .but my only point is that just because he said it, doesn't make it the gospel truth that Martin was a bad coach, as some in here want to take it as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Sure he should offer his opinion, and sure its good to listen to... .but my only point is that just because he said it, doesn't make it the gospel truth that Martin was a bad coach, as some in here want to take it as. Personally I am not taking it as the gospel truth he is a bad coach. But I am taking it as the gospel truth he was the wrong coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Personally I am not taking it as the gospel truth he is a bad coach. But I am taking it as the gospel truth he was the wrong coach. Exactly! I'll add that I don't even like the idea of the inmates running the asylum. It's just the nature of the beast. Let's see if Martin get's another head coaching gig. I have my doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Personally I am not taking it as the gospel truth he is a bad coach. But I am taking it as the gospel truth he was the wrong coach. Just wondering, do you think the "right coach" have gone farther in 2010? I also strongly disagree with Spacek that the proper style for the team was a more puck control game vs a defensive game. I don't think a team with as many small forwards as we had would ever would have been able to play a good enough cycle game to play a puck control style. I think that puck control requires size or eventually defenders are just gonna push the small guys off the puck and take over. I still agree with Martin's plan which was defensive hockey, and then quick strike offence via odd man rushes... plus a good PP for offence. I don't see how you can generate a puck possession type of offence with that sized team. Yeah, opening things up might have been more exciting and more fun to play... but the size would have been an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I think that we had the "best" result for the team going forward. I don't think going further would have been "good". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I think that we had the "best" result for the team going forward. I don't think going further would have been "good". For the record, I would have let Martin finish the season and then re-evaluated. All coaches have a shelf-life, even the good ones, and a tactician like Martin's can be shorter than most. But I don't think PG made the right move in terms of the timing on the firing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 All coaches have a shelf-life, even the good ones, and a tactician like Martin's can be shorter than most. But I don't think PG made the right move in terms of the timing on the firing. The timing was awful, before a stretch of games... on a game day... That is why Gauthier got fired haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Add to that, The team had 1 (ONE!) regulation loss in its last 7 games when Martin was fired...... Points in 6 of their last 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 For the record, I would have let Martin finish the season and then re-evaluated. All coaches have a shelf-life, even the good ones, and a tactician like Martin's can be shorter than most. But I don't think PG made the right move in terms of the timing on the firing. Good answer, as the firing did look like a desperate move from PG. And I was curious how you felt his tenure as coach should end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Good answer, as the firing did look like a desperate move from PG. And I was curious how you felt his tenure as coach should end. If PG had fired him when he fired Pearn... when the team was 1-8-2, I would have said the timing was fine (not a firing on game day, but after the last loss in that run), I could have seen the logic there. Heck even at that point in time I was saying it might be time to make a change, just for the sake of making a move. Kinda like pulling the goalie when you are down 3-0, even if the three goals aren't his fault... just to change the momentum. That said... the team had turned things around and was looking like they could get back into the playoff race (we were 4 pts out and it was Dec 17).... so that timing was just stupid. And the reasoning behind it (Cammalleri was disgruntled) was even more stupid considering they traded Cammalleri 6 weeks later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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