July 1st: Who do we want, who can we get?

[JMMR]

I think we should take a risk with Alexander Semin. Apparently hasn't gotten many calls, if we offered a decent ammount of money, we could try him out. Worth it IMO.

On a one year deal I would love it. Witha centre who can create he would score 65+ points for sure.

[hab29RETIRED]

Given my dislike and lack of confidence in Therrien, I maybe a one year deal for Semin may not be a bad idea

Seriously though, Claude Lemieux was called a coach killer and driven out of Montreal. He only went on to win a conn smythe and more cups. He was handled very badly by Burns in the 89' playoffs and along with Roy's gun shyness over MacInnis's slapshot were reasons why the habs lost the cup on home ice.

I laugh how people still wanted to give a washed up another chance, but label Semin who is in his prime a coach killer. My only hesitation with Semin would be term and dollars. If he would do a 3 yr, $15m deal, I'd have no hesitation at signing him.

No.....we need character guys not so called "coach-killers"

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Given my dislike and lack of confidence in Therrien, I maybe a one year deal for Semin may not be a bad idea

Seriously though, Claude Lemieux was called a coach killer and driven out of Montreal. He only went on to win a conn smythe and more cups. He was handled very badly by Burns in the 89' playoffs and along with Roy's gun shyness over MacInnis's slapshot were reasons why the habs lost the cup on home ice.

I laugh how people still wanted to give a washed up another chance, but label Semin who is in his prime a coach killer. My only hesitation with Semin would be term and dollars. If he would do a 3 yr, $15m deal, I'd have no hesitation at signing him.

I tend to agree that players acquire reputations that are not always justified - either the rep itself is an oversimplification, or the player matures over time and ceases to deserve the rep. Think about guys like Hossa who get labelled 'playoff busts' because of a bad playoff or two; any team passing on Hossa for that reason would have been kicking themselves for years afterward. And also, contrary to the robotic ethos that dominates hockey circles, sheer talent goes a long way and is something you can neither will nor buy.

And yet, Habs29 - just to push you a bit on this - for a fellow whose posts occasionally have an irascible flair to them - you seem to have a puzzling soft spot for these erratic, neurotic headcases. You never stopped pumping Kostitsyn's tires, yet his shenanigans in Nashville really do seem to show that he is exactly what his detractors always feared: a talented slob who basically doesn't give a rat's ass. Semin, meanwhile, has driven everyone involved with the Capitals positively crazy with his similarly apathetic disposition and fundamentally unreliable play. Your advocacy of these guys is doubly perplexing to me in that you've always seemed very critical of Kovalev - the archetype of this type of player. (In fact, I like Kovalev much better than either of these other guys, first because he was much more fun, and secondly because he actually did seem to care, in his weird, melodramatic way). I just wanna ask: What gives???

[hab29RETIRED]

I value skill, effort, skill, character, skil, grit, skill, toughness. in that order. IMO, with young players it is up to the coaching staff and the organization to figure out which buttons to push to get the most out of a player and help him become a professional. Something the Habs have a lousy track record at and why I wanted Robinson as an assistant coach so badly.

My issue with kovolev was his age. I loved kovolev during that first playoff run with him and I was actually more critical of Souray for calling out kovy publically when he took the slash in OT stopped playing and the bruins scored.

But as he continuedbhaving to be coddled by Gainey I tired off Kovy. A guy his age should have his shit together.

AK46 is completely different. He was at the age where mgmt should have done more to shield him and protect him from the BS indictment of the Montreal media and guys like Demers who were trying him without any evidence. He was at an age that he should have been the guy that Gainey and othersshould have been spending more time with to see what buttons to push. Instead gainey had a hard on for kovy that ultimately resulted in him choosing kovy over koivu (who IMO is the second classiest hab after big #4), and we ended up with the bum that is Gomez.

With young guys, especially ones from a different country, with limited English, the habs needed to do more to nurture and develop these guys (ie a player development type of role, but specifically for a guy like Ak46, maybe an older russian player like Larionov - obviously not hom specifically, but a respected guy like that), instead the role model gainey offered was a 36 yr old floater like kovy (who would have been captain if he accepted gainey's offer!!!! ).

AK46 took a lot of abuse from the media just because he was Russian and when he finally seemed to put it together that idiot Martin, instead of being encouraging, shrugged it off as ak46 playing hard in a contract year. After that AK46 was continuously shifted with different wingers and put with useless anchor that was Gomez.

I still think AK46 will put it together somewhere else. The knock against him isn't much different then the knocks against Briere and Cleary early in their careers. Both turned things around playing for the right organizations with solid coaches.

Semin up to now has played for the Buffoon Boudreau and hunter. Two guys that even a talent like Ovechkin has regressed under. Look at Semins playoff numbers, I think they are pretty solid. Unfortunately for him he is a goal scorer that is not Canadian and skill wise he is not in the same class as Crosby or Malkin. Since he is not going to put up points at the same rate as them he is a lazy Russian. However, when good old Canadian boys like Getzlaf, Carter, or even Iginla in recent years, go long stretches without producing, why isn't it that they ate heavily crtiticized for floating or not caring,??? Do you watch the flames at all???? There was around a 10 or 12 game stretch last year where iginla did absolutely nothing - he nay as well not have been on the ice, yet he faced none off the floater, doesn't care criticsm. Ditto for getzlaf.

I tend to agree that players acquire reputations that are not always justified - either the rep itself is an oversimplification, or the player matures over time and ceases to deserve the rep. Think about guys like Hossa who get labelled 'playoff busts' because of a bad playoff or two; any team passing on Hossa for that reason would have been kicking themselves for years afterward. And also, contrary to the robotic ethos that dominates hockey circles, sheer talent goes a long way and is something you can neither will nor buy.

And yet, Habs29 - just to push you a bit on this - for a fellow whose posts occasionally have an irascible flair to them - you seem to have a puzzling soft spot for these erratic, neurotic headcases. You never stopped pumping Kostitsyn's tires, yet his shenanigans in Nashville really do seem to show that he is exactly what his detractors always feared: a talented slob who basically doesn't give a rat's ass. Semin, meanwhile, has driven everyone involved with the Capitals positively crazy with his similarly apathetic disposition and fundamentally unreliable play. Your advocacy of these guys is doubly perplexing to me in that you've always seemed very critical of Kovalev - the archetype of this type of player. (In fact, I like Kovalev much better than either of these other guys, first because he was much more fun, and secondly because he actually did seem to care, in his weird, melodramatic way). I just wanna ask: What gives???

[Commandant]

Some guys just don't have "it", It being the mental toughness and dedication required to be that player and no matter how much skill they have, no matter how much coaching they get, no matter what the organization does, they will never be that guy.

I'm sure Andrei Kostitsyn fits in this category.

I strongly suspect Semin fits in this category, but would allow him one change in scenery to be sure. I'd give him a 1 year deal given our need for a goal scoring winger, but I wouldn't go longer than 1 year on the guy.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

That's a great post, habs29. You're absolutely right that the Gainey era was a disaster in terms of player development (which is why I've fumed at the lack of a full-time person responsible for this critical duty, a glaring failing that Bergevin has mercifully corrected) and your insight into the special challenges faced by youngsters from other cultures is important.

Of course, explaining bad character is one thing, changing it is another.

Will AK turn it around? Nashville is a widely-admired organization, but a couple of months there clearly didn't twig him to the slightest clue about how to comport himself. Also, whatever the limitations of the Jacques Martin regime, you can argue that that team had a fair bit of internal leadership and a coaching staff that did communicate a pretty consistent message (including the message sent by Muller, the main point-person for communication, whom everyone around here just loved). So, he's arguably had upward of three seasons in well-run operations and yet has failed to absorb any lessons. Doesn't mean he never will - just that he's running out of time.

Semins' a similiar case. 5 years in the league, 28 years old...if he doesn't figure it out soon, he never will. He sawed through a player-friendly (albeit moronic) coach in Boudreau, then sawed through an old-school drill sargeant in Hunter. At some point, the player becomes the independent variable, not the coaches or organization.

The best hope for these guys IMHO is a team like Detroit. That is an organization with a long history of transmuting head cases into solid, productive pros. They have the best team culture in all of hockey. Maybe Vancouver and Boston are somewhere in the same vicinity. These are the only examples I can think of. Apart from such hothouse environments, I'd be cautiously pessimistic about saving these guys. Still, your post almost makes me want to give Semin a chance - except that we can count on Therrien to be utterly hapless in getting the most out of a player like that.

[Commandant]

AK 46 had 4 different coaches in Montreal, and a 5th in Nashville. Its hard to blame it all on JM.

[DON]

I am all for resigning Kostitsyn, would be cheap i would guess?

[hab29RETIRED]

AK 46 had 4 different coaches in Montreal, and a 5th in Nashville. Its hard to blame it all on JM.

He had a great year under carbo, before the scandal that was supposed to shake the foundations and bring disgrace to the franchise. He was pretty much left to hang by the organization while Gainey had long meaningful walks with the veteran leader kovy. That year was pretty much a write-off for most of the team. He struggled under Martin, which was no surprise. I wouldn't even count any of Gainey's stints behind the bench, since he did such a piss poor job, that his coaching stints were actually worse then his tenure as GM - which is as bad as an indictment as you can get. Lastly, under Cunneyworth, who actually did have success other then the maxpac line??

As for his stint in nashville, I think it was really too short for a coach to make an impact.

I'd much rather bring Ak back to play with plex or eller then go with bourque. Other then Gionta, what other hab player actually tried to be physical against Chara???

[Commandant]

For as great a year as he had under Carbo... his second season under Carbo was not near as good and that happened long before the scandal.

At some point, he's failed under 5 different coaches and 2 different organizations. It becomes time to stop blaming everything on the coach, and look at the player.

[DON]

For as great a year as he had under Carbo... his second season under Carbo was not near as good and that happened long before the scandal.

At some point, he's failed under 5 different coaches and 2 different organizations. It becomes time to stop blaming everything on the coach, and look at the player.

Blame for what?

He is averaging 21 goals/82games for career, what is the matter with that? He is leading hitter of forward group as well and has been at a reasonable salary.

The blame, if there is any, is on goofy overexpectations by many, he is what he is; a 20+ goal scorer who hits like a truck and may be the most absent-minded and clumbsiest player in the NHL, who will likely never be confused with a rocket scientist.

So like i said, i would resign him at $3/year long before i would sign a 19 goal scoring old-timer like Jagr at $4.55.

[Commandant]

And is Kosty taking a 3million 1 year offer? If he is, then its a completely different story.

[hab29RETIRED]

And is Kosty taking a 3million 1 year offer? If he is, then its a completely different story.

Last year he had said he wasn't looking for an increase and wanted to stay in Montreal.

But i guess that mr. Gauthier wasn't interested in mr. Kostitsyn. I guess he felt he had replaced mr. Kostitsyn when he picked up mr. Bourque in exchange for mr. Cammalleri. Of course this is the same mr. Gauthier who was in charge of pro scouting when Mr. Gainey traded mr. Higgins, mr. McDonough and mr. Russian dman for mr. Gomez.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Blame for what?

He is averaging 21 goals/82games for career, what is the matter with that? He is leading hitter of forward group as well and has been at a reasonable salary.

The blame, if there is any, is on goofy overexpectations by many, he is what he is; a 20+ goal scorer who hits like a truck and may be the most absent-minded and clumbsiest player in the NHL, who will likely never be confused with a rocket scientist.

So like i said, i would resign him at $3/year long before i would sign a 19 goal scoring old-timer like Jagr at $4.55.

If I had Dallas's cap situation, there would not even be a question in my mind: Jagr at 4.5 waaaaay before Kosty at 3. Please.

Kostitsyn is an OK 6th forward in terms of on-ice performance. You know what you're getting: 50 games a year where he contributes absolutely nothing on offence, notwithstanding some solid physical play + 20 impressively productive games. What the Nashville escapade does is sharpen the question of whether, despite his apparently formidable raw talent, he's simply not all that great a hockey player; or whether serious character failings help to explain why he is useless as #### on a bull for 2/3 of every season. If it's the latter, it's not clear we should really want him back.

[Commandant]

Last year he had said he wasn't looking for an increase and wanted to stay in Montreal.

But i guess that mr. Gauthier wasn't interested in mr. Kostitsyn. I guess he felt he had replaced mr. Kostitsyn when he picked up mr. Bourque in exchange for mr. Cammalleri. Of course this is the same mr. Gauthier who was in charge of pro scouting when Mr. Gainey traded mr. Higgins, mr. McDonough and mr. Russian dman for mr. Gomez.

Saying it in the media, and putting pen to paper are two different things.

[hankhab]

I don't think Kostitsyn fits the mold of the type of player Bergevin seems to covet, that is, hard working, excellent character, etc. It really seems like are done adding UFA, could be a trade, perhaps, but I don't expect any news, other than signing our own RFA, until after the new CBA is done.

[BlueKross]

I think AK would have played alot better had he had someone covering his back. The Habs have been consistantly bullied for any number of years.

[DON]

And is Kosty taking a 3million 1 year offer? If he is, then its a completely different story.

You know where he is going as well as rest of us, Moscow-Siberia or one of those places and will make big bucks.

But i simply said, if he would take a lower salary and tossed out $3/year (anything less than $3.25), i know it aint happening, but at that salary i wouldnt hesitate to resign him.

And would be much preferrable to any old timer who is one good hit away from retirement.

And as you see some critics still flog Kostitsyn for only "showing up for 1/3 of games" and say he should do better; but again i say, get over your expectations, he is what he is, take it or leave it, he will score as much as Cammalleri does and toss alot of hits; unlike a Cammalleri/Jagr who are as soft as they come and if arnt scoring are as useless as a Kovalev out there.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Gauthier said he wanted players with character.

Andrei Kostitsyn does not fit the description. I understand it's hard to let go but let go.

[hankhab]

We won't be signing anymore UFA. I'd almost bet on it.

[Dalhabs]

You know where he is going as well as rest of us, Moscow-Siberia or one of those places and will make big bucks.

But i simply said, if he would take a lower salary and tossed out $3/year (anything less than $3.25), i know it aint happening, but at that salary i wouldnt hesitate to resign him.

And would be much preferrable to any old timer who is one good hit away from retirement.

And as you see some critics still flog Kostitsyn for only "showing up for 1/3 of games" and say he should do better; but again i say, get over your expectations, he is what he is, take it or leave it, he will score as much as Cammalleri does and toss alot of hits; unlike a Cammalleri/Jagr who are as soft as they come and if arnt scoring are as useless as a Kovalev out there.

Id rather save the money and hope for the new coachingstaff to get Bourque back to a 20+ goals 50+ points 2nd-liner since we already are stuck with his contract.

[hab29RETIRED]

Id rather save the money and hope for the new coachingstaff to get Bourque back to a 20+ goals 50+ points 2nd-liner since we already are stuck with his contract.

I'd be hoping he gets hot early and then use the opportunity to move his ass out of town. He is about as streaky as they come. However, unlike AK46 who actually contributed with physical play, Bourque despite his size plays like a marshmallow and takes stupid cheap shot hits that hurt the team. he is a guy who typically shows up around 20 games a year.

[DON]

I'd be hoping he gets hot early and then use the opportunity to move his ass out of town. He is about as streaky as they come. However, unlike AK46 who actually contributed with physical play, Bourque despite his size plays like a marshmallow and takes stupid cheap shot hits that hurt the team. he is a guy who typically shows up around 20 games a year.

He also typically gets 25 goals/year, which cant be said for anyone else on team except 67-72, and is relatively cheap, big, young and no problem being a bit on the dirty side when he also is willing to drop the gloves. He will do fine is my guess on either 2nd or 3rd line,

Leblanc-Eller-Bourque may be a super 3rd line?

[Davehab]

He also typically gets 25 goals/year, which cant be said for anyone else on team except 67-72, and is relatively cheap, big, young and no problem being a bit on the dirty side when he also is willing to drop the gloves. He will do fine is my guess on either 2nd or 3rd line,

Leblanc-Eller-Bourque may be a super 3rd line?

I would like to see how that works.....but last year Leblanc-Eller-Moen had great chemestry...I could see that line being a staple this year, unless Leblanc really impresses and ends up on the 2nd with Plex and Gointa.

I just really hope that Bourque starts to understand what it takes to be consistent.....hard work

[nihilz]

DD

Plek

Eller

Arnott

Not too many centers left to fill checking roles.. or any roles for that matter.. unless you like Brule or Langkow. Noke will not be penciled in as a starter. Does White have the foot speed or faceoff ability to play center again? Otherwise, there's a problem.

Im thinking Arnott would be a solid option playing limited minutes ES. And be good for spot checks or matchups in the top 6 /PP or when a RH shot is better suited for face-offs.