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2012-13 Habs Lineup: the Forwards


hankhab

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You wouldnt want Lucic-Chara-Thorton-Krejci-Seidenberg-Marchand on your team? All are good players and would look fine in a Hab jersey.

Marchand is an irritating pest and something that the Habs have been missing.

Although I respect their abilities, I dislike them immensely. I'm sure I could get used to them on my team, but it'd take a while.

Bergeron grew up hating the Habs as a Nordiques fan and once basically said if he got drafted by Montreal he would have been playing to get out. You shouldn't like him ;)

He's entitled to his misguided opinion. My respect for him is simply due to his abilities and not being a mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging neanderthal like the rest of the Bruins. :)

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I'd take Lucic, Marchand, Chara on my team... but I hate them on the Bruins. I hate their faces, I hate everything about them. They are easily hateable players, but they help you win, so I'd accept them, just like I once accepted Claude Lemieux.

Seguin and Bergeron, I hate their jerseys, but I don't hate them as people.

Ference is a douchecanoe and I wouldn't even want him on my team (not talented enough to let go of that hate).

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Ference is a douchecanoe and I wouldn't even want him on my team (not talented enough to let go of that hate).

Agreed.

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I wouldn't want Lucic. Always hated him, even before he played for Boston.

Only Bruin I've liked is Andrew Ference. He's quite underrated.

Funny, i would be opposite on those 2.

Ference is one i just dont have much respect for and is a mediocre d-man (an OK #4 -6 d-man, not sure if underrated?maybe?).

Lucic i have liked since he played with Vancouver, he does very well with the little skill he has and now many teams are looking hard to find the "next Lucic" and why a Tyler Biggs/Tom Wilson/Mitch Moroz/Dylan McIlrath all got drafted in top 32, when really are mid 2nd round at best talents.

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I'd take Lucic, Marchand, Chara on my team... but I hate them on the Bruins. I hate their faces, I hate everything about them. They are easily hateable players, but they help you win, so I'd accept them, just like I once accepted Claude Lemieux.

Seguin and Bergeron, I hate their jerseys, but I don't hate them as people.

Ference is a douchecanoe and I wouldn't even want him on my team (not talented enough to let go of that hate).

Thats better, i espected a bit more vitriol.

And dont get me wrong, i want to see Yemelin put Bergeron or Marchand through the boards (with no major injuries of course), but dont hate Bruins anymore than Red Sox or Pats and would almost prefer to see the Bruins win in playoffs series over the Leafs (toss-up).

Now that Bruin play by play guy, along with Neely are in same catagory as Don Cherry, Glen Healy, Brian Burke and Mike Milbury's and are just boneheads and thank god for RDS so i dont have to liten to any of them.

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Not much love for any of the Bs

Seems like you have to undergo a frontal labotomy to put the Boston jersey on, even Dr.Recchi got caught up in the crap

Man up when you do something stupid

Pacioretty leapt into the stanchion

Ference had a glove malfunction

Marchand 'protected' himself by clipping his opponent

Only guy I respected was Thomas and he took one too many pucks to the bean and is channeling a Joaquin Phoenix/Bono hybrid personality

They're all good players but I'd have to retrain them before they ever put on a Habs jersey.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I really like huselius to fill in for a year or two and who knows he might just be able to complement the plek gionta line. Is he healthy or whats his deal? What do you think it would cost to sign him ?Also I think this is the strongest I have seen our bottom 2 lines in a long time, and i know thats not the biggest thing for winning games but it sure doesn't hurt.

You could take a flyer on Kristian Huselius as well. Talented but only played 2 games last year due to injury.

As for the long term problem at LW. It really is a problem.

Along with goaltending it is the weakest position in our prospect pool. Right now we are looking at Steve Quailer, Ian Schultz, Tim Bozon, and Charles Hudon as LWs with any king of NHL potential. None of them are ready.

Of course on the big club all we really have is Patches and some bottom 6 filler.

This is yet another reason why DD should eventually become a LW for us.

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I really like huselius to fill in for a year or two and who knows he might just be able to complement the plek gionta line. Is he healthy or whats his deal? What do you think it would cost to sign him ?Also I think this is the strongest I have seen our bottom 2 lines in a long time, and i know thats not the biggest thing for winning games but it sure doesn't hurt.

It's big to have a strong bottom six. Very few teams made the playoffs without one. Anyone bewildered by Ottawa's success last season just needs to look at their bottom six strength.

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I agree that the bottom 6 is important. I hated Gauthier's makeshift approach whereby every season we were scrambling to assemble it. That cost us a number of games over the course of a season, and arguably led to guys like Pleks grinding down from overwork - to say nothing of the Moore debacle. No question, Bergevin has done a great job in addressing this under-estimated area of weakness.

And yet we remain in a bit of a cross-your-fingers situation with our second line. Will Gio and Pleks find the chemisty that has hitherto eluded them? Will Gio be healthy or has his body begun to break down? Will Bouque be able to do something, or remain the useless slug he was last season? If not Bourque, can one of our young guys slot in there?

That's a lot of questions. I don't like that. But all the crankiness directed at The Hockey News's prediction (Habs finish 13th) over at Hockey Inside Out suggest most fans don't share my concerns.

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And yet we remain in a bit of a cross-your-fingers situation with our second line. Will Gio and Pleks find the chemisty that has hitherto eluded them? Will Gio be healthy or has his body begun to break down? Will Bouque be able to do something, or remain the useless slug he was last season? If not Bourque, can one of our young guys slot in there?

If Bourque is playing LW on the second line we might as well quell any expectations.

That's a lot of questions. I don't like that. But all the crankiness directed at The Hockey News's prediction (Habs finish 13th) over at Hockey Inside Out suggest most fans don't share my concerns.

Sometimes you have to be patient.

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If Bourque is playing LW on the second line we might as well quell any expectations.

Sometimes you have to be patient.

I agree that August 18th is premature to be making decisive predictions...BUT taking the team as it is right now, picking us to finish out of the playoffs is entirely reasonable. In that sense all the scorn poured on THN by Habs fans strikes me as unduly optimistic.

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I agree that August 18th is premature to be making decisive predictions...BUT taking the team as it is right now, picking us to finish out of the playoffs is entirely reasonable. In that sense all the scorn poured on THN by Habs fans strikes me as unduly optimistic.

I cannot remember a season when I had so little sense how the team would do. I honestly feel the existing line up could place anywhere from first to last. There are a lot of IFs across the spectrum of possibilities, but if I were to prioritize the top seven IFs, I would say this line up can place first in the East IF, in order of priority:

1) Carey Price comes into his own with his first Vezina season, backstopping a elite defense and PK

2) Michel Therrien has learned from his mistakes and brings the best out in his team

3) Andrei Markov returns to pre-knee poo poo form, including stellar PP QBing

4) Patches-Des-Cole repeat

5) Gionta scores 30 and Bourque 20

6) PK makes the allstar team

7) Kaberle QBs a second wave that helps to put our PP near the top of the league

All of these things are possible this year. It is doubtful whether they will all occur in one season, and I guess the Hab's ranking will relate very closely to the number of IFs that convert.

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I agree that August 18th is premature to be making decisive predictions...BUT taking the team as it is right now, picking us to finish out of the playoffs is entirely reasonable. In that sense all the scorn poured on THN by Habs fans strikes me as unduly optimistic.

It's absolutely reasonable. In fact, it's expected. Most analysts say Montreal played under their ability last season but that was also with Montreal still being a middle of the road team.

However, I don't believe people are paying attention to the right statistics when it comes to where the Habs need to improve. Montreal could certainly use more scoring at 20th in the league but the Stanley Cup Champions were 29th. Defensively they were strong at 11th for goals against but Montreal could never keep a lead last season. Being worst in the league at leading after the first is a sign of a team that struggled out of the gate and couldn't finish games. The team also always had struggles to keep up in a road game and it's where you see some serious drops in our player performances. Pacioretty/Cole/Desharnais was a +40 at home. On the road? -17.

So what will be different this season? First is Brandon Prust. Prust had 17 points last season. 11 of those points came on the road. He also put forth a +2. 9 of his 13 goals in 10-11 came on the road as well. In other words, adding Prust wasn't just bringing a physical component to the team. It was also bringing some stability on the road, even if it isn't on our top lines. Every inch counts. The same goes with having Gionta back who has always been top three in our scoring on the road. Markov is another. Get this with Markov. In 09-10, he had 11 points in 20 games with a +8 at home. On the road he was a +3 but with 23 points in 25 games.

So for me, I see that Montreal could become a better road team this season as opposed to last season. That in itself could be the difference between a playoff spot and a Top 14 pick. I'm worried less about filling the left wing hole and more about the players on the team performing the best they can.

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Biggest question marks for me are Markov, Bourque & Therrien. Markov rebounds we have solid top 4 D and improved PP, Bourque finds his game we have our Top 6, Therrien instills killer instinct and conditioning we don't blow leads and stay healthier.

We lost so many close games last year if those 3 things happen I think we are in the playoffs where anything can happen but they're pretty big ifs

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Biggest question marks for me are Markov, Bourque & Therrien. Markov rebounds we have solid top 4 D and improved PP, Bourque finds his game we have our Top 6, Therrien instills killer instinct and conditioning we don't blow leads and stay healthier.

We lost so many close games last year if those 3 things happen I think we are in the playoffs where anything can happen but they're pretty big ifs

I think that's right.

Markov in particular is a huge factor - indeed, some of us have probably forgotten just what a gigantic difference he used to make. If he somehow stays healthy and somehow plays the way he did at his peak, then a lot of givens change, and a lot of people are likely to end up surprised at the Habs' performance. But these are big 'ifs.'

Bourque is an X-factor about which it's hard to be optimistic. But anything is possible. Or who knows, maybe Leblanc or even Galy can slot in there.

Therrien may or may not do a good job, but I actually think he will end up highly praised this season, not because of anything he'll do, necessarily, but because he'll have a team of hungry, motivated players excited by the fresh start determined to bounce back from last year's debacle. His weaknesses will only surface once that enthusiasm wears off (sometime in Year Two). I don't think coaching will be an issue this season. (Unless, perhaps, we make the playoffs and he puts Bill Lindsay out to take a key faceoff again).

In the end, though, Markov and (less importantly) Bourque are just gigantic question marks. When you're prognosticating about how a team is likely to finish, you can't just assume that those questions will be answered in a way that favours the team. The point is, well-regarded clubs don't have huge questions like: can their #1 defenceman and PP quarterback be effective over a whole season? Do they have secondary scoring?

In no way am I denying that the Habs could do well this season. It's just that objective observers would bet against it.

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I think that's right.

Markov in particular is a huge factor - indeed, some of us have probably forgotten just what a gigantic difference he used to make. If he somehow stays healthy and somehow plays the way he did at his peak, then a lot of givens change, and a lot of people are likely to end up surprised at the Habs' performance. But these are big 'ifs.'

Bourque is an X-factor about which it's hard to be optimistic. But anything is possible. Or who knows, maybe Leblanc or even Galy can slot in there.

Therrien may or may not do a good job, but I actually think he will end up highly praised this season, not because of anything he'll do, necessarily, but because he'll have a team of hungry, motivated players excited by the fresh start determined to bounce back from last year's debacle. His weaknesses will only surface once that enthusiasm wears off (sometime in Year Two). I don't think coaching will be an issue this season. (Unless, perhaps, we make the playoffs and he puts Bill Lindsay out to take a key faceoff again).

In the end, though, Markov and (less importantly) Bourque are just gigantic question marks. When you're prognosticating about how a team is likely to finish, you can't just assume that those questions will be answered in a way that favours the team. The point is, well-regarded don't have huge questions like: can their #1 defenceman and PP quarterback be effective over a whole season? Do they have secondary scoring?

In no way am I denying that the Habs could do well this season. It's just that objective observers would bet against it.

In my mind, our #1 Dman isn't Markov anymore. It is Subban.

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In my mind, our #1 Dman isn't Markov anymore. It is Subban.

This has been true for two seasons - but it shouldn't be. PK has been great but nowhere near Markov's level in terms of running the PP or acting as overall on-ice general. Unless he ups his game this season - quite possible, but yet another Question Mark - we need a return to form and health from #79 if we are going to be the 'surprise' team of 2012-13.

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This has been true for two seasons - but it shouldn't be. PK has been great but nowhere near Markov's level in terms of running the PP or acting as overall on-ice general. Unless he ups his game this season - quite possible, but yet another Question Mark - we need a return to form and health from #79 if we are going to be the 'surprise' team of 2012-13.

I don't build on "should have been". I build on "is".

I trully expect Subban to overperfom Markov in pretty much every aspects of the game after, let's say, 10 games next season. (if we have a season)

Maybe it is expecting too much out of the kid, but would I assume I do.

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I don't build on "should have been". I build on "is".

I trully expect Subban to overperfom Markov in pretty much every aspects of the game after, let's say, 10 games next season. (if we have a season)

Maybe it is expecting too much out of the kid, but would I assume I do.

Well, that's sort of my point. Anyone expecting the Habs to do well this season has to base that expectation on decidedly rosy assumptions. Maybe PK will find another level this season. At least as likely, he won't. You say you build on 'is,' but what PK actually 'is' right now is a #2 defenceman on a good team, nowhere near the defenceman Markov was in his prime. If he's your #1 guy, your team is gonna have issues.

Then another optimist comes along and says, 'but we have Markov this season, man! Markov + PK = playoffs.' Maybe. But when a guy has been AWOL for three years running, you don't realistically assume he's going to be healthy and be the player he was. And again, that's all I'm saying - this team has far too many 'maybes' for it to be classified as a solid playoff team.

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In my mind, and I hope Therrien's, Bourque stays on the RW. His decision can be whether or not he plays second line or third line.

As for the left wing hole, the sooner Desharnais converts the better. I hope to see Therrien try something like this in exhibition for the top six:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Bourque/Gionta

Desharnais - Eller/Galchenyuk - Cole

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So the Habs finally have a legit offensive line for the first time in like 20 years. Then everyone wants to break them up and see what happens. That makes perfect sense.

They need to find some combination of 2nd and 3rd lines who can chip in offensively. Pleks and Gionta were like oil and water last year. They will need to try different combos with Eller and Pleks.

I think the 4th line is pretty much set between Prust, Noke, Armstrong and White.

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So the Habs finally have a legit offensive line for the first time in like 20 years. Then everyone wants to break them up and see what happens. That makes perfect sense.

Toss Plekanec on that line and it becomes better. No seriously. Add one of the best two way centers in the NHL with two 30 goal scorers and the line becomes better. Why do people miss this point?

I'm not knocking Desharnais. I want him to succeed. He won't succeed in Montreal as a center. The moment Eller can win 50 per cent of his faceoffs and score more than 40 points a season, DD is done. The moment Galchenyuk becomes a number one center, he's done. Trading Plekanec or moving him to the third line is ridiculous because he's a better player than Desharnais. That's called a bad business decision. I'm not saying it's a huge gap, but defensively it's noticeable.

DD will succeed as a left winger. He'll probably have a job in Montreal for as long as Pacioretty if he moves to the left wing because our system is empty of them and right now we're looking at Tim Bozon or Charlie Hudon, 18 year olds to develop into the role. There's no place for him as a right winger and having a place for him at center is disappearing.

As for the "keep the line together" cries, some people need to look at history and realize that history is on the side of lines having to be broken up due to injury, chemistry changes or trades. When was the last time Montreal kept a line, even a successful line together for three seasons? When was the last time any team kept a successful line together for three seasons? It doesn't happen. Montreal might start next season and Patches can't finish a single pass of DD's. What do you do, force it together out of necessity?

One last point, you'll notice I said exhibition. This is where you experiment. If putting Patches with Plekanec made Patches a bigger scoring machine than he was last season, do you really just go, "Oh well that's cool, NO CHANGES PLEASE MY HOCKEY PSYCHE CAN'T RISK IT!"

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I'm certainly not saying they can't change things up. I think moving DD to wing won't be very successful .That's just my opinion.

I agree that Galchenyuk or Pleks would be just as successfull playing with Cole and Pacs. The fact would remain you still only have 1 legit scoring line. You could try DD with Gionta and Bourque, or Eller with those 2. Other wingers are Moen, Leblanc and others depending on what you want.

I think this team will have some scoring issues again unless they find some combo of a 2nd or 3rd line that can reliably produce.

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