Would Semin signing with the Habs be hard to swallow?

[hankhab]

The CBA fight is not NHL vs. NHLPA. The NHL is only presenting it like that because they know the real fight is the Top 10 NHL teams vs. Bottom 20 NHL teams. Carolina also had $17M in free cap so they had to spend. While I think this makes the Hurricanes deadly their defence is absolutely putrid.

If the wrong side wins the NHL will turn into Major League Baseball, which has turned itself into "the richest team wins" league. I'm not hoping for a lockout this time, but the owners really do need a strong set of handcuffs for themselves to keep salaries in line. As for Carolina, I understand why they did the offer, but I still find it disturbing.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Right. The NHL needs to contain the spread between richest and poorest. In other words, the issue is fiscal parity. I don't know why, when the Flyers made their play for Weber or Carolina blows the bank on Semin, the media reaction is to pour scorn on the NHL's 'crying poor.' No one ever denied that some franchises have money to burn. The problem is the 70% that don't. Whether Philly or Carolina overpay for some UFA has absolutely no bearing.

Unasked in all of this is why it falls to the players to bear the burdens needed to create fiscal parity. Seems to me you could just as easily achieve the same via a really aggressive program of revenue sharing. Teams making above a certain margin would have to funnel profits into other franchises. Of course that never, ever comes up. Far better to exploit players than ask big-money teams to settle for less than obscene profit margins.

Semin's a great, no-risk signing for Carolina. It really beats me why MB is sitting on his ass with a lineup that looks like swiss cheese.

[DON]

For one season, with no other particular use for that $7 mil?

Not crazy at all.

I wouldnt pay 1/2 that for that floater and to say the Habs missed out, is not how i see it. More like dodged a bullet. Now if want to resign Kostitsyn for 1 year, i am all for that.

[DON]

If the wrong side wins the NHL will turn into Major League Baseball, which has turned itself into "the richest team wins" league. I'm not hoping for a lockout this time, but the owners really do need a strong set of handcuffs for themselves to keep salaries in line. As for Carolina, I understand why they did the offer, but I still find it disturbing.

MLB teams which attempt to buy a championship do not, generally win and building through draft/prospects still seems best way to go.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1192358-big-spending-ways-of-yankees-and-red-sox-are-not-the-best-way-to-win-a-title

And Rangers/Carolina may look better on paper, but like in the MLB, big free agent signings dont equate to a winning team.

As soon as new CBA is signed, no matter what "handcuffs" are in-place, the owners will have lawyers working on loopholes, so dont expect any big changes to owners outbidding each other any chance they get and complaining at same time.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I wouldnt pay 1/2 that for that floater and to say the Habs missed out, is not how i see it. More like dodged a bullet. Now if want to resign Kostitsyn for 1 year, i am all for that.

I don't know why you care what he's paid. It's not like he'd be eating cap space we need for other reasons. Right now his salary is being spent on Gomez. Your argument is basically that we're better without Semin than with him, or that Gomez is a better use for that money. On a team that's short at least one top-6 player, the argument makes no sense.

Now, that leaves Kostitsyn as a possible cheap UFA pick up. I never hated Kostitsyn - never loved him either - but I'd be all for re-signing him now, especially given that his bargaining position is arguably pretty low. But seeing as he's missed the chance to get super short-term deals for Whitney, Jagr, Semin, and even Fatendresse, I have a hard time believing MB bothers with this option either. He appears to have all the faith in the world in that slug Bourque.

[DON]

I don't know why you care what he's paid. It's not like he'd be eating cap space we need for other reasons. Right now his salary is being spent on Gomez. Your argument is basically that we're better without Semin than with him, or that Gomez is a better use for that money. On a team that's short at least one top-6 player, the argument makes no sense.

Now, that leaves Kostitsyn as a possible cheap UFA pick up. I never hated Kostitsyn - never loved him either - but I'd be all for re-signing him now, especially given that his bargaining position is arguably pretty low. But seeing as he's missed the chance to get super short-term deals for Whitney, Jagr, Semin, and even Fatendresse, I have a hard time believing MB bothers with this option either. He appears to have all the faith in the world in that slug Bourque.

For sure team is better without a Semin, you really think he is a character guy to help buld team chemistry, or would be the difference between playoffs-or not?

I also dont see a need for a top six, nor do i see cap space to do it once Subban is signed, unless it is through a big multi-player deal.

I like Bourque and think he will do fine, and worse case Gallagher/Leblanc may have to line up next to Plekanec, which may be a good thing in long run?

But i really dont care what Semin cost, we just got rid of one soft overpaid cull to Calgary and dont need to add another clown.

But if we had of signed Semin, i might at least want a salary i could dump/bury if he turned out as i expect him too.

Best of luck Carolina, the gamble may pay off but i have my doubts.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

For sure team is better without a Semin, you really think he is a character guy to help buld team chemistry, or would be the difference between playoffs-or not?

I also dont see a need for a top six, nor do i see cap space to do it once Subban is signed, unless it is through a big multi-player deal.

I like Bourque and think he will do fine, and worse case Gallagher/Leblanc may have to line up next to Plekanec, which may be a good thing in long run?

But i really dont care what Semin cost, we just got rid of one soft overpaid cull to Calgary and dont need to add another clown.

But if we had of signed Semin, i might at least want a salary i could dump/bury if he turned out as i expect him too.

Best of luck Carolina, the gamble may pay off but i have my doubts.

The cap space would come from burying Gomez in the AHL where he belongs.

I don't get why you hate Cammy and Semin, but like Bourque or Kostitsyn, who have just as bad a rep as unrelieable headcases. They just produce far less than those other two guys.

And yes, if Semin gets 70+ points he could well represent the difference between playoffs and not. It's the difference between having two good lines and one. We saw how that worked out last season.

But hey, if Bourque steps up, then it's all good. Where I come from, though, you want to see depth and competitions for roster spots. As it is, we're handing Bourque an unearned top-6 spot and have zero fallback plan if he gets hurt or fails to deliver. Dumb.

Even Kostitsyn would represent some much-needed insurance for that spot. But I don't anticipate MB lifting a finger there, either.

[Commandant]

MLB has 9 different teams win the World Series in the last 11 years

NHL pre-lockout had 14 out of a possible 16 different conference finalists in the last four years pre lockout... the years that Teams were overspending and you had to "buy a winner"... some of those finalists were tampa, Calgary, minnesota, san jose, all small market teams at the time.

This idea that teams buy champions is not really seen in the evidence.

In fact there was less parity and more dynasty teams before players got the right to be free agents and you could hold a team together.

It was harder for a loser team to build a group that could knock off the 70s Habs or the 80s Oilers and Islanders than it is for a small market team to compete today.

The idea that "your team can't compete without a salary cap" is a myth.

[RedSoloCup]

Semin got $7MM!!?? It's like it's closing time and people standards are dropping like a rock so they don't go home alone. Doan will get $6-7MM over longer term which would tie our hands resigning Pacs/DD regardless of what happens to Gomez. With Leblanc, Gallagher, Galchenyuk not far away from being ready unless we move someone in a trade I say we take the chance with what we got. Hopefully we lost AKs agents number, some people here did cartwheels when Cammy left, well that was me when AK46 departed, still cry when I look at the 2003 draft, yeah drafting is a crapshoot but somehow we managed to shoot pretty much the only crap in the 1st round. Let him go hang in the Russian bars with Rads.

[Commandant]

7 million for 1 year, for a team that is below the cap floor?

Its basically no risk, you gotta spend the case somewhere, might as well be on a guy who has the talent to be a superstar.

Best case scenario.... he becomes that superstar.

Worst caes ... you let him go at the end of the season and spend elsewhere next summer. You had to spend the money anyway.

[Toronthab]

Well, I guess it's because I'd like to see Québec become a country...

I can certainly understand the motivation, but I sure hope you guys don't leave Canada. I think the world would be a less happy place if that were to happen. I love Quebec.

[habs 10]

I would hate to see Quebec leave Canada and I'm a firm believer that whatever is the problem it can be fixed. Being on your own in the new global economy is pretty scary!!

[Willey101]

MLB has 9 different teams win the World Series in the last 11 years

NHL pre-lockout had 14 out of a possible 16 different conference finalists in the last four years pre lockout... the years that Teams were overspending and you had to "buy a winner"... some of those finalists were tampa, Calgary, minnesota, san jose, all small market teams at the time.

This idea that teams buy champions is not really seen in the evidence.

In fact there was less parity and more dynasty teams before players got the right to be free agents and you could hold a team together.

It was harder for a loser team to build a group that could knock off the 70s Habs or the 80s Oilers and Islanders than it is for a small market team to compete today.

The idea that "your team can't compete without a salary cap" is a myth.

Don't forget the misconception of Detroit simply buying cups. When in fact you look at the line-up and the majority of the key players were all home grown.

[DON]

The cap space would come from burying Gomez in the AHL where he belongs.

I don't get why you hate Cammy and Semin, but like Bourque or Kostitsyn, who have just as bad a rep as unrelieable headcases. They just produce far less than those other two guys.

And yes, if Semin gets 70+ points he could well represent the difference between playoffs and not. It's the difference between having two good lines and one. We saw how that worked out last season.

But hey, if Bourque steps up, then it's all good. Where I come from, though, you want to see depth and competitions for roster spots. As it is, we're handing Bourque an unearned top-6 spot and have zero fallback plan if he gets hurt or fails to deliver. Dumb.

Even Kostitsyn would represent some much-needed insurance for that spot. But I don't anticipate MB lifting a finger there, either.

I think your ideas likely are same as majority and maybe there is cause to worry, but i am always overly opptimistic this time of year and see the addition of a healthy Gorges/Markov/Gionta/Eller/Leblanc as a big bonus and difference maker for the positive. And Bourque has 70+ goals in last 3 years, so why wouldnt he be good for 20+ again, he is healthy and young, as is Kostitsyn?

But i cant stand soft floaters and the Kovalev's/Cammalleri's are only good if they produce (as they add zero on defense, backchecking or any physical game) and last fall i said i would cut the Squid some slack is he produced, but he seemed to make zero effort, and for 2nd year he did dick-all, so good riddence. Hope Calgary can squeeze 30+ goals from him but unlikely.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Don't forget the misconception of Detroit simply buying cups. When in fact you look at the line-up and the majority of the key players were all home grown.

What happens without a salary cap is that the same cluster of rich teams vacuums up all the top UFAs.

This is certainly a different matter from winning Cups, but it still sucks. Imagine knowing with near-certainty that Subban or Price are going to decamp to New York, Toronto, or Philly once they hit the necessary age, because your team doesn't happen to be a 'big market' or have deep-pocketed owners.

Besides that, who were the teams that contended reliably in the pre-cap era? Colorado - huge UFA player; Dallas - always able to sign the desired UFAs; Philly - ditto; Jersey - not a big market, hence the outlier; Detroit - able to sign UFAs as needed. You can't 'buy' a Cup, but being a rich team means that you can add UFAs to fill roster holes as needed and you can sign and keep your own home-grown talent. People say Detroit has a great organization. True, but they could also add missing pieces at will, while an equally good small-market team could not.

Otherwise put, a Minnesota could never have added Suter and Parise in a non-cap system. Nashville could never have matched Philly's offer. And I think it's a lot more fun as a fan knowing that your team has a chance to add star talent through methods other than the draft.

So there are plenty of reasons to favour a reasonable degree of fiscal parity. It could come from revenue-sharing or from a cap or both - doesn't matter to me - but I prefer a league where an Edmonton has a chance to keep some of its players rather that automatically lose them to TO or NY, thanks.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The tragic comedy of the 90s was that the richest teams were not the most successful teams. Colorado and Dallas got hot and that's why they were a UFA destination. New Jersey in the 90s was considered a smaller market than the Islanders but they built a successful team and UFAs wanted to play for them. Detroit is the same story.

While Philadelphia did make it to the finals once, it isn't saying much when Buffalo did the same and they were basically Hasek and nobody else. The real big market teams in New York and Toronto were atrocious teams that got very high priced UFAs (especially the Rangers) and did absolutely nothing with them. How do you miss the playoffs with Fleury, Bure and Lindros? Well the Rangers did. It wasn't until the cap got in place that New York changed their priorities. You also had Montreal, a major market with team placed handicaps. Had Montreal not disassembled their 1993 Cup team they might have been in the same situation as the Devils and Red Wings.

Fact is, small markets still competed in the pre cap era but that doesn't mean they could financially compete. Vancouver, Florida, Washington, Buffalo, Carolina, Anaheim, Tampa Bay and Calgary all were still able to play for the Cup, they were just always long shots to the powerhouse four (NJ, Detroit, Dallas, Colorado). The salary cap was a good thing. I just don't believe it should have been a hard cap.

[hankhab]

I like the hard cap system, they need to close a few of the loopholes, though.

[Dalhabs]

You also had Montreal, a major market with team placed handicaps. Had Montreal not disassembled their 1993 Cup team they might have been in the same situation as the Devils and Red Wings.

Ugh! Mark Recchi + someone Ive forgotten (Craig Darby?) for John Leclair AND Eric Desjardins

Turgeon and Malakhov for Kirk Muller, Matt Schneider

The Roy trade.

Then Turgeon for Corson.. Yep, the 90s werent a nice 10 years for us.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Ugh! Mark Recchi + someone Ive forgotten (Craig Darby?) for John Leclair AND Eric Desjardins

Turgeon and Malakhov for Kirk Muller, Matt Schneider

The Roy trade.

Then Turgeon for Corson.. Yep, the 90s werent a nice 10 years for us.

Turgeon/Malakhov for Muller/Schneider wasn't a bad deal actually. Muller fell apart after that trade and was never the same and had we kept him he might have went from a 90 point center to a 50 point center with nothing for us to show for it. It was the fact we completely fumbled with Turgeon. Funny fact: in 1994 the Detroit Red Wings were looking at Yzerman's value and both Montreal and Ottawa put out the best offers. The Canadien's offer? Schenider + Prospect for Yzerman. Imagine doing the Muller/Schneider trade to Detroit for Yzerman/Player. Might have changed things a bit. But the Molson's were very tight on the money strings and likely would have dropped Yzerman the moment he needed a new contract.