dlbalr Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 I read that CJAD staffer/writer Chantel Desjardins reported that PK has told his agent to get a quick settlement to a new contact. This is good news if the report is accurate. Someone has to be willing to move if this is going to be resolved and gets PK signed with us. Does anyone know who Chantel is and if she is a good credible source? I believe the source is from the Journal de Montréal. I just didn't bother putting that link on the site since I had already linked the CJAD piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I don't know whether the rumour is credible or not. On the face of it, though, I think that as long as the Habs are winning - and as long as Markov is Markov - PK will find himself increasingly on the wrong side of the PR battle. For a guy with his ego and his need for public adulation, that, along with a desire to be part of the good things that are happening, could be enough to nudge him off his perch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I don't know whether the rumour is credible or not. On the face of it, though, I think that as long as the Habs are winning - and as long as Markov is Markov - PK will find himself increasingly on the wrong side of the PR battle. For a guy with his ego and his need for public adulation, that, along with a desire to be part of the good things that are happening, could be enough to nudge him off his perch. I think you are right. I also believe that P.K. is not the patient sort. Either he will ask for a trade very shortly or sign whatever he is able to negotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I don't buy the PK quick settlement "leak". Who stands to gain from such information being leaked? A veteran agent like Meehan wouldn't say anything like that, and I'm sure he'd be slapping Subban upside the head for making such a comment. Regardless, rather than some folks thinking that the Habs 2 game winning streak has weakened Subban's position, I can't help but think about the team. Completely disregarding contract talk for the moment, it'd sure be nice to have Subban in the lineup...imagine how much stronger the Habs would be on D. Also, right now, the Habs don't have anyone on the backend that's, to put in plainly, annoying. Emelin can hit, as can Cube, but nobody else on the D chirps like Subban. All that said, get him signed so we can move on from lockouts, holdouts and just deal with the play on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Most of us want PK signed. Certainly I do. That said, I don't want MB knuckling under to any old demand either. It's hard to say more since we have no idea what the two sides' demands actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 god how I want this crap to end. I want PK back on the blueline where he belongs.I really don't think that MB is going to be stupid enough to lowball PK when he has an agent like meehan. What he is going to do is look at comparables, consider cap space, look at long term risk/reward scenarios. Then he makes a close to reasonable offer to PK, leaving himself a little room to come up so that PK can feel good about the contract. This is all very logical and the proper way to do business. This is not a win/lose situation, he does not want a pouting PK in camp, he wants him to be as happy as he can be. So given the above what I consider to be basic facts, then logically speaking PK needs to get his head out of his A$$ and sign a contract, preferably today. Also the highest paid player on the team is Markov, we are not going to make PK the highest paid player on the team. Or MB will have a short tenure in habs land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Also the highest paid player on the team is Markov, we are not going to make PK the highest paid player on the team. Or MB will have a short tenure in habs land. I like how after Gomez gets bought out we're now speaking on the importance of who is the highest paid player. But yeah, Markov is only the highest paid because Price's higher salary hits are a little later. Based on cap, Price is the highest paid player. Even so, he isn't going to always be the highest paid player. EDIT: Actually, Gomez' buyout is still the highest paid player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 EDIT: Actually, Gomez' buyout is still the highest paid player Highest cap hit (a little over $6.5M after buyout), yes; highest paid, no. Gomez's salary is $5.5M for this season, Markov at $5.75M trumps that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Highest cap hit (a little over $6.5M after buyout), yes; highest paid, no. Gomez's salary is $5.5M for this season, Markov at $5.75M trumps that. True, by $250K. Less than a hockey player. I just found it pretty funny that now that Gomez is gone, we can try to make the argument how our highest paid player should be our best player. At some point, Galchenyuk is likely to be our highest paid player, and he probably won't be better than Price. And I'm okay with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Cap considerations are getting short changed in this thread. As Berkshire has pointed out over at EOTP, http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/1/21/3900984/the-holdout-in-defense-of-habs-marc-bergevin the only way to hold on to enough cap flexibility for next season to sign an impact UFA and make a run is to keep PK's cap hit as low as possible. I for one would rather see him locked up for 5-7 years at $5-6M per, but I can see where MB is coming from. Note that the stat-heads over at EOTP have also done a good job of demonstrating that PK is already a proven, elite defenseman with the rare ability to play tough minutes on the PP and PK as well as at ES: http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/1/21/3884474/p-k-subban-vs-his-peers-habs-montreal-canadiens My other concern is the role the PR war is playing here. MB's desire to prove he is a tough guy, like the teams he is re-shaping, may be getting the better of his judgment here. PK is special and MB should break his unwritten bridge contract rule and lock him up. Before this shortened season started that is what I would have said anyway. Now I am tbeginning to worry that giving into PK might negatively impact team dynamics. PK wants Meehan to move quickly because he knows that the new team culture under MT is evolving quickly at the outset of this season, and he he needs to be part of that evolution. Hopefully MB is willing to bend enough to help PK get on board in time for Sunday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habinator33 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Cap considerations are getting short changed in this thread. As Berkshire has pointed out over at EOTP, http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/1/21/3900984/the-holdout-in-defense-of-habs-marc-bergevin the only way to hold on to enough cap flexibility for next season to sign an impact UFA and make a run is to keep PK's cap hit as low as possible. I for one would rather see him locked up for 5-7 years at $5-6M per, but I can see where MB is coming from. Note that the stat-heads over at EOTP have also done a good job of demonstrating that PK is already a proven, elite defenseman with the rare ability to play tough minutes on the PP and PK as well as at ES: http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/1/21/3884474/p-k-subban-vs-his-peers-habs-montreal-canadiens My other concern is the role the PR war is playing here. MB's desire to prove he is a tough guy, like the teams he is re-shaping, may be getting the better of his judgment here. PK is special and MB should break his unwritten bridge contract rule and lock him up. Before this shortened season started that is what I would have said anyway. Now I am tbeginning to worry that giving into PK might negatively impact team dynamics. PK wants Meehan to move quickly because he knows that the new team culture under MT is evolving quickly at the outset of this season, and he he needs to be part of that evolution. Hopefully MB is willing to bend enough to help PK get on board in time for Sunday... Even if he signed today I doubt he'll be in the lineup on Sunday especially considering we have 3 games in 4 nights. They will give him a few days to get his legs under him and get familiar with the system first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 With Meszaros injury in Philly and if there play doesn't improve, you have to wonder if they would offer sheet Subban. Why? So they can do Bergevin's work for him. No way are we accepting a 1st 2nd and 3rd from a good team like Philly for Subban. I'm almost 100% sure that teasm cannot make offer sheets til July 1st 2013. You are 100% wrong. You can make an offer sheet to any RFA at any time (so long as you have the draft picks required for compensation available). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Commandant...that's assuming their offer sheet isn't above the threshold requiring them to give up more. You also need to consider that it's not just acquiring those picks...you also keep $6M in cap room which allows you to sign a pretty good UFA at that number. Ryan Suter and Zach Parise signed for only $1.5M more then that number last summer. Shane Doan and Matt Carle signed for under $5.5M last summer. Adding those picks (even from a team that is likely in the bottom third of the draft rounds) PLUS a UFA of that level is really what you need to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Even if he signed today I doubt he'll be in the lineup on Sunday especially considering we have 3 games in 4 nights. They will give him a few days to get his legs under him and get familiar with the system first.I'd think that would be all the more reason to get him in the line up sooner rather than later. Do you really think PK needs time to "get his legs under him"? I mean, he will obviously improve with time, but the kid was born ready What do others think? if he signs, does he play Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 You can make an offer sheet to any RFA at any time (so long as you have the draft picks required for compensation available). Plus enough cap and/or tagging space. The Flyers are very tight to the cap this year (even with Pronger on LTIR, they might not even have enough space for Subban to get him to sign) and also have a fair bit committed to next season currently. That said, I don't expect one from them or any other team for now. What do others think? if he signs, does he play Sunday? Not a chance. He hasn't skated with the team, they won't throw him right into the fire. He'll need a few days of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Commandant...that's assuming their offer sheet isn't above the threshold requiring them to give up more. You also need to consider that it's not just acquiring those picks...you also keep $6M in cap room which allows you to sign a pretty good UFA at that number. Ryan Suter and Zach Parise signed for only $1.5M more then that number last summer. Shane Doan and Matt Carle signed for under $5.5M last summer. Adding those picks (even from a team that is likely in the bottom third of the draft rounds) PLUS a UFA of that level is really what you need to consider. Problem is, signing a quality UFA is not 100% sure. Not even 25% sure. 20ish teams would be interested as well... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 There's alot of discussion here on Subban's value. What is his value exactly? I think MB has a value for Subban and it's not what Subban has on himself. We all know MB had calls from other GMs regarding trading him and nobody knows what the offers were. We have heard that Subban had offer sheets and turned them down. Does anyone know what the offer sheets were? If he really wanted to play all he had to do was sign one of those offer sheets and I'm pretty sure we would of matched it. Maybe those offer sheets were as low as MB is offering so Subban didn't sign to try to getmore out of us. You would think if there were any serious offers or offer sheets we wouldn't be here today. I'm just saying the market value of Subban may be in fact a lot lower than Subban has himself valued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Problem is, signing a quality UFA is not 100% sure. Not even 25% sure. 20ish teams would be interested as well... Sure...but there are usually 3 of those $7M types most years...and another 3-5 of the $5-$6.5M types. And I'd say there are usually less then a dozen teams with the money to sign a guy like that in any given off-season. Cap management is crucial...it has to be done efficiently and with the highest degree of efficacy they can manage. It's why you don't just sign a guy like Subban because of fan/media sentiment...and why you don't pay a guy superstar dollars simply because he might, one day, in the future, maybe, become a superstar. There's alot of discussion here on Subban's value. What is his value exactly? I think MB has a value for Subban and it's not what Subban has on himself. We all know MB had calls from other GMs regarding trading him and nobody knows what the offers were. We have heard that Subban had offer sheets and turned them down. Does anyone know what the offer sheets were? If he really wanted to play all he had to do was sign one of those offer sheets and I'm pretty sure we would of matched it. Maybe those offer sheets were as low as MB is offering so Subban didn't sign to try to get more out of us. You would think if there were any serious offers or offer sheets we wouldn't be here today. I'm just saying the market value of Subban may be in fact a lot lower than Subban has himself valued. The question is term length and pricing future value. His agent will ignore risk factors in his future value asking price...the team will look to price that risk into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Sutter and Parise signed for a low cap number because they were signed to long term deals (12 years I believe?). That's no linger allowed. Commandant...that's assuming their offer sheet isn't above the threshold requiring them to give up more. You also need to consider that it's not just acquiring those picks...you also keep $6M in cap room which allows you to sign a pretty good UFA at that number. Ryan Suter and Zach Parise signed for only $1.5M more then that number last summer. Shane Doan and Matt Carle signed for under $5.5M last summer. Adding those picks (even from a team that is likely in the bottom third of the draft rounds) PLUS a UFA of that level is really what you need to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 If Philly was going to sign him (or anyone else for that matter) it would obviously be for an amount high enough that they felt the habs wouldn't match. Why? So they can do Bergevin's work for him. No way are we accepting a 1st 2nd and 3rd from a good team like Philly for Subban. You are 100% wrong. You can make an offer sheet to any RFA at any time (so long as you have the draft picks required for compensation available). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Few things are as nonsensical as the idea that letting Subban go so we can massively overpay for a UFA is good cap management. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 If cap mgmt was the only concern, MB wouldn't have spent $3m on Prust - double what the NYR's offered. Sure...but there are usually 3 of those $7M types most years...and another 3-5 of the $5-$6.5M types. And I'd say there are usually less then a dozen teams with the money to sign a guy like that in any given off-season. Cap management is crucial...it has to be done efficiently and with the highest degree of efficacy they can manage. It's why you don't just sign a guy like Subban because of fan/media sentiment...and why you don't pay a guy superstar dollars simply because he might, one day, in the future, maybe, become a superstar. The question is term length and pricing future value. His agent will ignore risk factors in his future value asking price...the team will look to price that risk into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Problem is, signing a quality UFA is not 100% sure. Not even 25% sure. 20ish teams would be interested as well... Zowpeb nailed it. Cap space is a currency most GMS have not figured out yet. Signing a UFA is not 100%, nor is signing Subban to a long contract overvalued. I would say this, you have a longer window to evalute a UFA as opposed to an RFA, therefore it would follow that you are more likely to be right in your assessment of the former. I don't think anybody here wants to trade Subban and I expect if he has had an offer sheet, it falls short in either term or money to his expectations. I see no reason not to play that card if he has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 If cap mgmt was the only concern, MB wouldn't have spent $3m on Prust - double what the NYR's offered. Except they didn't spend $3M on Prust, it's $2.5M (cap wise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 3 of those Dmen ? Who are you kidding ? Sure...but there are usually 3 of those $7M types most years...and another 3-5 of the $5-$6.5M types. And I'd say there are usually less then a dozen teams with the money to sign a guy like that in any given off-season. Cap management is crucial...it has to be done efficiently and with the highest degree of efficacy they can manage. It's why you don't just sign a guy like Subban because of fan/media sentiment...and why you don't pay a guy superstar dollars simply because he might, one day, in the future, maybe, become a superstar.à Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts