Commandant Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Taking aim at the Grabovski incident. http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/02/10/i-swear-gaa-biting-has-no-place-in-the-nhl/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 It never ceases to amaze me how people react after 1 measly game. Did we get destroyed? Yes. Do we need to blow it up? No. The Boston game should have been a win and same goes for the Buffalo game. Toronto brought their A game and we brought our F game. It happens. Some teams match up better against certain others. I think everybody here would be happy with a 6-4-1 record at this point before the season started. Look at the big picture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 It never ceases to amaze me how people react after 1 measly game. Did we get destroyed? Yes. Do we need to blow it up? No. The Boston game should have been a win and same goes for the Buffalo game. Toronto brought their A game and we brought our F game. It happens. Some teams match up better against certain others. I think everybody here would be happy with a 6-4-1 record at this point before the season started. Look at the big picture. I don't advocate blowing it up. I advocate that we still are not a playoff team and we need to keep the rebuild process going. I would be fine coming last this year, trading some older guys at the deadline, and loading up again at the draft. If done correctly, we could be a top contender within three years, which is when we still have our first wave of kids (max, price, and PK) No, we are not as bad as we saw last night, but we are not as good as our early record either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Exactly, keep doing what MB is doing. he has stated numerous times that you build contenders through the draft and picking up key pieces. The team is better and much more entertaining to (barring last night). If this team is not in a playoff spot around the deadline some serious conversations need to happen to get more picks and top prospecrts. Markov, Pleks, Gionta can land big returns IMO. I think 2 of them have no movement clauses but i would certainly ask if they want a shot with a contender. A playoff team could use Moen as well. With a deep draft, Adding first rounders and top prospects would be good for the team IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 By the way, for the record... The habs are 28th in the league for average player weight. The habs are 30th in the league for average height. This is why we cant beat big, fast teams that show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 It never ceases to amaze me how people react after 1 measly game. Did we get destroyed? Yes. Do we need to blow it up? No. The Boston game should have been a win and same goes for the Buffalo game. Toronto brought their A game and we brought our F game. It happens. Some teams match up better against certain others. I think everybody here would be happy with a 6-4-1 record at this point before the season started. Look at the big picture. well last night was an old fashioned a$$ kicking. We lost everywhere fights faceoffs goals penalties and a little flesh. We do not have the horses to get into a brawl with big teams. We need to stick to finesse and speed, for now, and we do need to get bigger. Gionta fighting is a joke. Desharnais fighting is a joke. love the heart but ultimately doomed to failure. Blow it up, no. Look to trade some smaller guys for bigger guys ? yeah we have to. A good big man will always beat a good small man. I am happy with the record but I also think it is not indicative of where this team acually is at, and all the exceitement when were winning was always going to be short lived. we have come back down to earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The difference between this year's team and last is that we are playing more aggressively and are not backing down from the contact. Gallagher is 5 foot nothing and he drives to the net more than anybody. Gionta isn't afraid to bang the body. Sure, it isn't fun to watch Gorges fight some giant goon, or Gallagher exchanging blows, but the point is that they don't back down. I can't remember the last time this team has finished it's checks like it is doing this season. Sure we have some soft players, but so does every team. It's all about the wins, and as soon as this team strings together a couple of them in a row, suddenly size doesn't matter. I'm so sick of hearing about it. Our game is about speed, skill, goaltending and the quick transition. It ALWAYS has been. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Are we bigger then we were... Yes. Are we big enough... No. Three is not enough, especially when they don't seem interested in using that size. I want a full line of guys that size, but if we do that, the 2nd line will average 5'7". Imo, max and cole made DD look good last year. I think Gomez would have had a decent year between those two the way they were playing. We need to focus on getting Max and Cole playing well and let DD fend for himself. I see little value in DD long term. We could use some bigger guys on D especially, but my point is the boldfaced part. If Cole and Patches are playing like last season, bulldozing their way to the net consistently, nobody on this board is bitching about size and our lack of 'power forwards.' Your argument about DD may be sound. Time will tell. More than size, the real concern for me about this particular squad is whether key players are past their 'best before' date. Markov still brings exquisite passing and PP quarterbacking, but his serious decline in footspeed has been exposed in recent games. Maybe he'll adjust, but it seems unlikely. Gio may - just may - be done. Is Cole just starting slow, or has he finally lost a step, such as this is the year his 'slow start' translates into his decline into being a role player? These are legit concerns, and MB will need to be ruthless in terms of deadline dealing if the veterans are indeed over the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Markov, Pleks, Gionta can land big returns IMO. I think 2 of them have no movement clauses but i would certainly ask if they want a shot with a contender. A playoff team could use Moen as well. With a deep draft, Adding first rounders and top prospects would be good for the team IMO. I agree wholeheartedly. This year will be a learning curve for the young players and as long as MB sticks to his plan, the team will be ready to really compete in 2015. I would seriously unload Gionta and Cole at the deadline if the team is too far out of it. Better to get something in return for these players since they don't fit long term on the team and cost a ton of cap space. I would keep Markov and Plex - to me, they're still the backbone of this team. And for those who say that Montreal needs to get bigger, I agree - on defence. They need Tinordi now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 So if I read the headlines right today Orr isn't getting a hearing for his attempt to injure? Isn't it the intent and not the result that matters? I see Grabgoofsky getting off as they will say video isn't conclusive but how can they not be looking into that hit? Oh, and don't get me started on CBC's celebration of the win. It is no wonder leaf fans are so dumb. Those idiots are their leaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The difference between this year's team and last is that we are playing more aggressively and are not backing down from the contact. Gallagher is 5 foot nothing and he drives to the net more than anybody. Gionta isn't afraid to bang the body. Sure, it isn't fun to watch Gorges fight some giant goon, or Gallagher exchanging blows, but the point is that they don't back down. I can't remember the last time this team has finished it's checks like it is doing this season. Sure we have some soft players, but so does every team. It's all about the wins, and as soon as this team strings together a couple of them in a row, suddenly size doesn't matter. I'm so sick of hearing about it. Our game is about speed, skill, goaltending and the quick transition. It ALWAYS has been. I love Gallaghers spunk, but dont confuse effort with effectiveness. Who do you think a guy like Phaneuf fears when going into a corner, lucic or Gallagher? Gallagher doesnt wear down anybody but himself. I dont want to get rid of Gallagher, but dd, Gally, and Gionta on a team that is otherwise average, is simply too much. I would start by upgrading DD, then Gio, then Gally. We also need one of bourque, Cole, or Max to lead the way by using their size bettter, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 By the way, for the record... The habs are 28th in the league for average player weight. The habs are 30th in the league for average height. This is why we cant beat big, fast teams that show up. Stats are skewed by 3 guys. And the difference between the biggest team and smallest? 1.5 inches... essentially meaningless white noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I agree wholeheartedly. This year will be a learning curve for the young players and as long as MB sticks to his plan, the team will be ready to really compete in 2015. I would seriously unload Gionta and Cole at the deadline if the team is too far out of it. Better to get something in return for these players since they don't fit long term on the team and cost a ton of cap space. I would keep Markov and Plex - to me, they're still the backbone of this team. And for those who say that Montreal needs to get bigger, I agree - on defence. They need Tinordi now. Tinordi is not ready now, and may not be ready in October either. We might be waiting til this time next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Stats are skewed by 3 guys. And the difference between the biggest team and smallest? 1.5 inches... essentially meaningless white noise. Exactly. Look at Frankie B, all 5'8 of him. The guy is a little tank out there. Compare that to 6'7 of Hal Gill, and who plays tougher? The whole size issue only gets blown out of proportion after losses like this one. The team played like crap and lost in every facet of the game. Nobody complains about it after a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I barely watched the game since some friends were in town (they were Leaf fans so they just enjoyed seeing the beating) but the reaction by Habs fans is no surprise. Like I said in an earlier thread, 24 hours after a game brings the most irrational comments out of fans. From what I did see, that was one of the most embarrassing displays of toughness I have ever seen. And people want the team to get even more goonier. Whatever. Done with that debate. It's the same people who thought the team with Brad Staubitz was somehow a step in the right direction. I'll take boring Jacques Martin hockey that wins games over exciting goon hockey that wins us nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I barely watched the game since some friends were in town (they were Leaf fans so they just enjoyed seeing the beating) but the reaction by Habs fans is no surprise. Like I said in an earlier thread, 24 hours after a game brings the most irrational comments out of fans. From what I did see, that was one of the most embarrassing displays of toughness I have ever seen. And people want the team to get even more goonier. Whatever. Done with that debate. It's the same people who thought the team with Brad Staubitz was somehow a step in the right direction. I'll take boring Jacques Martin hockey that wins games over exciting goon hockey that wins us nothing. We're all fans. You are too. What do you expect? And I ask with respect, as you always add to the debates. Our team got slaughtered, Brian Burke style. He would have kept his job had they showed this earlier. I can't think of a worse way to lose. Next game, Ryan White will play no doubt. He'll do something dumb, and we'll be shorthanded for half a period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 We're all fans. You are too. What do you expect? Hey, I did the same after the first game. I probably would be overreacting with you guys too if I watched the whole game. That said, cooler heads make for smarter conversations. I saw on a different board someone stating that Andrei Markov wasn't good in his own zone. I'm guessing he made a mistake or two but what a ridiculous statement. It doesn't help the discussion if people are being irrational. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 We're all fans. You are too. What do you expect? And I ask with respect, as you always add to the debates. Our team got slaughtered, Brian Burke style. He would have kept his job had they showed this earlier. I can't think of a worse way to lose. Next game, Ryan White will play no doubt. He'll do something dumb, and we'll be shorthanded for half a period. yeah did white ever pick a poor time to screw up and get benched. We could of used the crazy mfr last night. There would have been the game to go crazy. Actually I really like him but he has to learn to pick his spots. He has not been too successfull so far. Team has a lot of guts, but they are not a lot of fighters. Gorges? what a mismatch, went down swinging. Give him credit. But that is not how he helps us win games. Markov has lost a step, he has to be more carefull about rushing in and may have to hang back a bit which limits his genius. He is still a great defenceman but he has to adjust to having bad knees, its a fact of life. Booby Orr wasn't so great without knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 1.5 inches is not noise. Our stats are not skewed by those players, it is a result of those players. I just dont get this... Do people honestly think this is a contending team? For years I have heard all kinds of excuses for this team and explanations that the size doesnt matter. Size alone is not sufficient, but lets stop pretending that every speedy little player we see should be on this team. One or two is fine, 4 is simply too many. On top of a lack of size, we lack players who are nasty and tough to play against up front. Prust is the only guy we have like that. At least on D we have some guys who can keep other players heads up. (Pk, boo boo, and Emelin). Toronto and Buffalo had this problem and took steps to fix it. Prust was a good first step by MB, but it isnt enough. I will say one more thing... While skill can make up for size at times, this team doesnt have that kind of skill. Seriously, we mostly have good, but not great players. Even Pitts, which had a ton more skill, added grit for the playoffs. A big tough team can make room for a smaller, skilled player, but we are dependant on them. People need to be realistic about our team and players if we are going to improve. yeah did white ever pick a poor time to screw up and get benched. We could of used the crazy mfr last night. There would have been the game to go crazy. Actually I really like him but he has to learn to pick his spots. He has not been too successfull so far. Team has a lot of guts, but they are not a lot of fighters. Gorges? what a mismatch, went down swinging. Give him credit. But that is not how he helps us win games. Markov has lost a step, he has to be more carefull about rushing in and may have to hang back a bit which limits his genius. He is still a great defenceman but he has to adjust to having bad knees, its a fact of life. Booby Orr wasn't so great without knees. White would have either gotten his clock cleaned, or ended up suspended if he was in last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 We're all fans. You are too. What do you expect? And I ask with respect, as you always add to the debates. Our team got slaughtered, Brian Burke style. He would have kept his job had they showed this earlier. I can't think of a worse way to lose. Next game, Ryan White will play no doubt. He'll do something dumb, and we'll be shorthanded for half a period. Remember when Detroit played Montreal last year and we slaughtered them.... didn't make us a better team than us. We slaughtered buffalo last week... didn't help us on thursday. This team wasn't as good as they looked in the Buffalo game, nor as bad as they looked last night... its just that you can't judge by 1 night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 1.5 inches is not noise. Our stats are not skewed by those players, it is a result of those players. I just dont get this... Do people honestly think this is a contending team? For years I have heard all kinds of excuses for this team and explanations that the size doesnt matter. Size alone is not sufficient, but lets stop pretending that every speedy little player we see should be on this team. One or two is fine, 4 is simply too many. Are we a contender? NO We are a team that is gonna finish between 7th and 11th place in the East IMO. So stay the course and continue rebuliding. Making moves to help this team this year is not gonna do anything. We need to keep the rebuild going and not think about short term moves. Is Bouillion gonna be here after this season? Probably not... he'll be replaced long term by Tinordi... so thats gonna have a huge sway in that 1.5 inches. If you can trade Gionta and get something for the future, great.... but no need to worry about Gallagher who is gonna be here long term. This team isn't a contender, never were... but we knew that before this season. They are a bubble playoff team working on building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Are we a contender? NO We are a team that is gonna finish between 7th and 11th place in the East IMO. So stay the course and continue rebuliding. Making moves to help this team this year is not gonna do anything. We need to keep the rebuild going and not think about short term moves. Is Bouillion gonna be here after this season? Probably not... he'll be replaced long term by Tinordi... so thats gonna have a huge sway in that 1.5 inches. If you can trade Gionta and get something for the future, great.... but no need to worry about Gallagher who is gonna be here long term. This team isn't a contender, never were... but we knew that before this season. They are a bubble playoff team working on building. I was clear, i only want trades for the future, not this season. On that we agree. I have also said that Gally is probably the one small guy I keep. Boo boo plays big enough becausemhe is a tank. It is not just height, but strength. I dont see him here long term either. This team is too soft, but that isnt from a lack of goons. We need guys with skill and the size/strength to play down the middle, as opposed to on the perimeter. When possible, i would upgrade DD and probably Gio. At some point, a younger version of Cole or Bourque would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Someone already said it, but we need a faceoff guy or 2. We're 28th in the league in faceoffs this year. We have 4 sub-50% faceoff centers. DD being the worse, Chucky is "forgivable" because he is a rookie. Eller is 48%, which isn't bad, but isn't good. Our best faceoff man is White at 63.6% but he's been in the doghouse. We need a good faceoff man on one of our scoring lines. We need a faceoff man that we can count on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Are we a contender? NO We are a team that is gonna finish between 7th and 11th place in the East IMO. So stay the course and continue rebuliding. Making moves to help this team this year is not gonna do anything. We need to keep the rebuild going and not think about short term moves. Is Bouillion gonna be here after this season? Probably not... he'll be replaced long term by Tinordi... so thats gonna have a huge sway in that 1.5 inches. If you can trade Gionta and get something for the future, great.... but no need to worry about Gallagher who is gonna be here long term. This team isn't a contender, never were... but we knew that before this season. They are a bubble playoff team working on building. Agree 100%. Who EVER said this team was a contender this season? So what is the point of criticizing it as not being a contender? I do wonder about whether we really have enough talent in the pipeline to enable us to contend within the next 2-3 years, though. OK, so Galy replaces Desharnais (potentially huge upgrade), Gallagher replaces Gio (sideways move), Subban matures into an all-star defenceman (upgrade), Patches continues to be an impact 30-30 man (sideways move), Pleks has another 3-4 years of peak performance (sideways move). Meanwhile Cole and Markov either retire or decline: two huge cogs who will be hard to replace (backwards moves). Is there really the outline of contender-to-be here, then, if you take the organization as a whole? Not being provocative, just asking. And looking at his last post, I guess that's where brobin is coming from. Honestly, I had more optimism about Gainey Rebuild 1.0. Then, we were universally viewed as having one of the best talent pipelines in hockey. We had Higgins, the Kostitsyn brothers, Price, Komisarek, Lats, Lapierre, Ribeiro - all very young and most of them widely regarded as having impact potential. (As I recall Plekanec was almost an afterthought amidst the flashier talent!). You don't hear the same buzz around what we've got in the pipe this time around; the best of it (the Gallys) is already here, or so it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Someone already said it, but we need a faceoff guy or 2. We're 28th in the league in faceoffs this year. We have 4 sub-50% faceoff centers. DD being the worse, Chucky is "forgivable" because he is a rookie. Eller is 48%, which isn't bad, but isn't good. Our best faceoff man is White at 63.6% but he's been in the doghouse. We need a good faceoff man on one of our scoring lines. We need a faceoff man that we can count on. There are always rumours about teams trying to get Paul Stastny, who Colorado wants to keep as a second line center with potential for big points. The problem is that the Avalanche want a kings ransom for him from the rumours last season in Brian Burke trying to acquire him (they wanted something similar to what LA had to pay for Mike Richards). That said, if Montreal really wants a good face off guy he would be the best target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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