GDT Feb. 9, Leafs vs Habs, 7 PM

[habs rule]

White would have either gotten his clock cleaned, or ended up suspended if he was in last night.

that may be true but watching gorges get his clock cleaned was worse. At least white would have got a couple in and he actually knows how to fight. Wouldn't have made a wit of difference to the game except maybe a little less embarassing.

[johnnyhasbeen]

I still don't get why there is no hearing on the attempted knee to knee? Even some Leaf fans were expecting one.

[dlbalr]

Someone already said it, but we need a faceoff guy or 2. We're 28th in the league in faceoffs this year. We have 4 sub-50% faceoff centers. DD being the worse, Chucky is "forgivable" because he is a rookie. Eller is 48%, which isn't bad, but isn't good. Our best faceoff man is White at 63.6% but he's been in the doghouse. We need a good faceoff man on one of our scoring lines. We need a faceoff man that we can count on.

Petteri Nokelainen, come on down...sad as it is, I'm actually eagerly awaiting his return as at least he can win more than he loses.

Also, the Grabovski hearing is now set, tomorrow morning at 11. The Habs have reportedly submitted photographs of Pacioretty's arm with bite marks but a lot of people seem to think there is no disciplinary action coming as the video doesn't conclusively show Grabovski physically biting the arm. We just see Pacioretty's arm in his mouth area but not the actual bite (and in cases like this the league has shown it won't put 2 and 2 together).

[sakiqc]

Petteri Nokelainen, come on down...sad as it is, I'm actually eagerly awaiting his return as at least he can win more than he loses.

Also, the Grabovski hearing is now set, tomorrow morning at 11. The Habs have reportedly submitted photographs of Pacioretty's arm with bite marks but a lot of people seem to think there is no disciplinary action coming as the video doesn't conclusively show Grabovski physically biting the arm. We just see Pacioretty's arm in his mouth area but not the actual bite (and in cases like this the league has shown it won't put 2 and 2 together).

Maybe it's because I'm a Habs fans, but isn't Patches one of the most likable player in the NHL? He's just a kid having fun playing hockey! Why has he already been the target of 2 horrific cold blood acts? And ugly stuff like we've never seen before? This is sickening.

yeah did white ever pick a poor time to screw up and get benched. We could of used the crazy mfr last night. There would have been the game to go crazy. Actually I really like him but he has to learn to pick his spots. He has not been too successfull so far. Team has a lot of guts, but they are not a lot of fighters. Gorges? what a mismatch, went down swinging. Give him credit. But that is not how he helps us win games. Markov has lost a step, he has to be more carefull about rushing in and may have to hang back a bit which limits his genius. He is still a great defenceman but he has to adjust to having bad knees, its a fact of life. Booby Orr wasn't so great without knees.

I think you're very right. White didn't just screwed up the Sabres game, but the Leafs game as well.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Maybe it's because I'm a Habs fans, but isn't Patches one of the most likable player in the NHL? He's just a kid having fun playing hockey! Why has he already been the target of 2 horrific cold blood acts? And ugly stuff like we've never seen before? This is sickening.

I guess you forgot about this:

[Commandant]

I still don't get why there is no hearing on the attempted knee to knee? Even some Leaf fans were expecting one.

Cause the league doesn't suspend for attempted anything, if you miss you are fine.

Its such a joke, but its true.

[johnnyhasbeen]

That is absolute BS. The rules are to protect the players, not to punish players after they cause an injury. It is like saying drunk driving is ok until you hit someone. I am losing my patience with this joke of a league.

[JGC21]

Perhaps we're looking at a DeBoer vs. Tortorella copycat: Therrien vs. Carlyle.

I could see a Prust, White, Blunden starting lineup against Orr, McLaren and co. on Feb. 27 in Toronto. There's no doubt that the Habs will be looking for payback and revenge will certainly be sweeter in Toronto.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Perhaps we're looking at a DeBoer vs. Tortorella copycat: Therrien vs. Carlyle.

I could see a Prust, White, Blunden starting lineup against Orr, McLaren and co. on Feb. 27 in Toronto. There's no doubt that the Habs will be looking for payback and revenge will certainly be sweeter in Toronto.

Ugh.

I'd rather just have Colby Armstrong take Kessel's head off with a high check and then turtle for the rest of the game to take advantage of power plays.

We're not winning a goon war with Toronto.

[BlueKross]

Stats are skewed by 3 guys. And the difference between the biggest team and smallest? 1.5 inches... essentially meaningless white noise.

That is 1.5 inches per player. That means that even the guys that you consider are big are playing on the average against bigger players. We are playing uphill throughout the line up. It isn't just the small guys.

[brobin]

that may be true but watching gorges get his clock cleaned was worse. At least white would have got a couple in and he actually knows how to fight. Wouldn't have made a wit of difference to the game except maybe a little less embarassing.

Yeah, White would get at least two punches in before the other guy realized he was in a fight... lol

Ugh.

I'd rather just have Colby Armstrong take Kessel's head off with a high check and then turtle for the rest of the game to take advantage of power plays.

We're not winning a goon war with Toronto.

Even better, if Armstrong gets suspended, we won't have to play him...

(yes, Armstrong has been invisible)

[dlbalr]

Perhaps we're looking at a DeBoer vs. Tortorella copycat: Therrien vs. Carlyle.

I could see a Prust, White, Blunden starting lineup against Orr, McLaren and co. on Feb. 27 in Toronto. There's no doubt that the Habs will be looking for payback and revenge will certainly be sweeter in Toronto.

I sure hope not, that wouldn't end well for the Habs and would just hand the Leafs instant momentum.

[huzer]

Saturday night was just a good old fashioned butt kickin'. The team isn't THAT bad, but they can't try and goon it up. That isn't what the team is built for, and it isn't what they should be built for. I have no problem with a "tough" team, and this year's version of the Habs is much tougher than years past.

[hab29RETIRED]

Saturday night was just a good old fashioned butt kickin'. The team isn't THAT bad, but they can't try and goon it up. That isn't what the team is built for, and it isn't what they should be built for. I have no problem with a "tough" team, and this year's version of the Habs is much tougher than years past.

Agreed. I think this team has enough toughness. Don't need to be a brawling team to be a tough team. If we play our game, we beat the leafs. But for whatever reason, this team just doesn't seem to get up for the leafs.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Agreed. I think this team has enough toughness. Don't need to be a brawling team to be a tough team. If we play our game, we beat the leafs. But for whatever reason, this team just doesn't seem to get up for the leafs.

Any team can get tougher if they don't need their players to be good enough to be in the NHL. We could sign the fourth line of Vitayz, and only give them sheltered minutes at home. Does Colton Orr make the Leafs a playoff team? I think not. How can you put out McClaren-Brown-Orr and think "gee, we're really going to win tonight." Who the hell are these Leafs guys? They're like the knock-off aisle at Wal-mart, or a dollar store. Holzer, Kostka, Fraser...

That being said, every team needs a punishing fighter somewhere in the system. We could get someone like John Erskine, Matt Kassian or Steve MacIntyre for nickels on the dollar. Prust and White are great, but no one is afraid of them.

[Commandant]

That is 1.5 inches per player. That means that even the guys that you consider are big are playing on the average against bigger players. We are playing uphill throughout the line up. It isn't just the small guys.

1.5 inches vs the top size team in the league.... that difference drops as you go.

Also if you take out the three guys, the team is average sized, so its not the whole lineup that is fighting the uphill battle, its 3 guys.

[BlueKross]

1.5 inches vs the top size team in the league.... that difference drops as you go.

Also if you take out the three guys, the team is average sized, so its not the whole lineup that is fighting the uphill battle, its 3 guys.

We are not talking about fighting, we are talking about strength. Most of us believe strength for the most part is proportional to heighth and weight. You may be able to add a weighted, time on the ice factor, but you can't take guys out. Brobin has told you where we stand, and to say we are average size is just wrong. I agree that 1.5 is the upper limit, but based on 23 players that is a huge discrepency, and not minor like you try to portray.

[brobin]

Found this on another board... Clear demonstration of Bias...

youtu.be/71ZJQNh_IaY

[dlbalr]

No suspension or fine for Grabovski - although there was evidence submitted that Pacioretty had been bit, there was no conclusive evidence to show that it came from that specific incident and not from beforehand. Because the video doesn't clearly show the mouth closing on the arm, they can't suspend - it's similar to another ruling from earlier this season where the same circumstances existed from what I've read.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

No suspension or fine for Grabovski - although there was evidence submitted that Pacioretty had been bit, there was no conclusive evidence to show that it came from that specific incident and not from beforehand. Because the video doesn't clearly show the mouth closing on the arm, they can't suspend - it's similar to another ruling from earlier this season where the same circumstances existed from what I've read.

So what now? Should we call up Stortini or Hagel for the expressed purpose of biting Grabovski?

[brobin]

There was a decent view of the bite. I guess as lng as the lips are covering the teeth you are good. There were clear bite marks and they say they might have been there already? Wow... That stretches the imagination.

The league sure has screwed max over the years.

[dlbalr]

So what now? Should we call up Stortini or Hagel for the expressed purpose of biting Grabovski?

Considering neither are actually under contract to the Habs (they're on AHL deals and for good reason - they're terrible as 4th line minor leaguers), that might be a bit difficult. Yes, you could sign one and call him up but I'd much rather keep the vacant contract slots for possible trades down the road, waiver claims, or college UFA signings.

There was a decent view of the bite. I guess as lng as the lips are covering the teeth you are good. There were clear bite marks and they say they might have been there already? Wow... That stretches the imagination.

The league sure has screwed max over the years.

The 'might have been there before' is my own addition. If the camera cannot definitively show the bite (and as much as we know how it happened, I haven't found an angle that shows the mouth biting down), it therefore can be suggested that it came from somewhere else at some other time. We know it's not true but I'm sure that Grabovski's PA rep (or the Leafs) would have brought that up.

[brobin]

Considering neither are actually under contract to the Habs (they're on AHL deals and for good reason - they're terrible as 4th line minor leaguers), that might be a bit difficult. Yes, you could sign one and call him up but I'd much rather keep the vacant contract slots for possible trades down the road, waiver claims, or college UFA signings.

The 'might have been there before' is my own addition. If the camera cannot definitively show the bite (and as much as we know how it happened, I haven't found an angle that shows the mouth biting down), it therefore can be suggested that it came from somewhere else at some other time. We know it's not true but I'm sure that Grabovski's PA rep (or the Leafs) would have brought that up.

There was a reverse angle showing his lips clamped on the arm... He was either biting or sucking his arm... If that is their standard, bite away... I really don't see how you could see the teeth in any bite that wasn't on a finger... At some point, they have to use their brains or this will happen again.

Still, no surprise with this league.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Considering neither are actually under contract to the Habs (they're on AHL deals and for good reason - they're terrible as 4th line minor leaguers), that might be a bit difficult. Yes, you could sign one and call him up but I'd much rather keep the vacant contract slots for possible trades down the road, waiver claims, or college UFA signings.

I think Patches should bite him.

Or at least make teeth gnashing gestures towards Grabbo. I'm offically over the Grabovski trade, he might be the craziest guy in the NHL.

[Commandant]

We are not talking about fighting, we are talking about strength. Most of us believe strength for the most part is proportional to heighth and weight. You may be able to add a weighted, time on the ice factor, but you can't take guys out. Brobin has told you where we stand, and to say we are average size is just wrong. I agree that 1.5 is the upper limit, but based on 23 players that is a huge discrepency, and not minor like you try to portray.

It is minor, because it only affects three guys who are greatly skewing the average.

If you remove Desharnais, Gionta, and Gallagher from the calculation, you have an Average sized team. So for 20/23 guys on the issue, the strength/height/weight isn't an issue. They measure up with the league average.

This is why I say its a mere three guys who have the uphill battle.

No suspension or fine for Grabovski - although there was evidence submitted that Pacioretty had been bit, there was no conclusive evidence to show that it came from that specific incident and not from beforehand. Because the video doesn't clearly show the mouth closing on the arm, they can't suspend - it's similar to another ruling from earlier this season where the same circumstances existed from what I've read.

The Habs sent in pictures of his arm. Clearly they should show the bite marks. What the league is basically saying is that they can’t prove the marks came from Grabovski. So as far as I can tell here are the two theories

1) Patches bit himself (or got a teammate/trainer, etc… to bite him in the dressing room).

2) Patches then got in a scrum with the Leafs and intentionally placed his arm near the mouth of a Leaf.

3) That Leaf appears to pull the arm closer for a bite, but isn’t really.

4) Patches shows the previous bite marks from intermission or whenever to the ref. Grabovski is kicked out.

5) the Habs send the pictures to shanahan, in an insidious plot to get Grabo suspended.

Or Theory 2

1) Grabovski bit Pacioretty.

The NHL (lack of) player safety committee found that in their infinite wisdom (ie lets call Jeremy Jacobs and do what he tells us) that they couldn’t rule out that Pacioretty might do an elaborate and sinister plot to get someone suspended.

In fact, in reviewing their records there was the whole incident where he hurt himself jumping into a stanchion and tried to blame it on nice guy Zdeno Chara, so the guy clearly has no credibility.