Why are the Habs such a stodgy organization?

[habs rule]

I have been a loyal and faithful fan of Les Canadiens since i was 10 some 49 years ago. In the last 2 decades it seems that this team will not do anything that will cause a stir. The last stir we had was Bob's rebuild 2, toss out 10 guys bring in 12 guys. (something like that.) But hey it was exciting except for that Gomer thingy.

This year we had Jagr say I want to play for Montreal.... do we sign him? NO he signs with Jersey for 2mill plus 2 mill bonuses . Lou Lam is a smart guy, the best Gm in the land. We have Brendon Morrow say I want to play for the Habs. Do we sign him? NO. (at least not yet) I remember when we did not think anybody wanted to sign in Montreal. I know it's early and a lot can happen this summer but why the heck do I get the feeling this is just another year and thank the great pumpkin, we are making money. Improve the team? ahhh lets not rock the boat, we are making money. I think MB actually forced Ryan White to take a 12,000 dollar pay cut to have a 2 way contract. Has this team sunk that low? 12 grand? come on that is ludicrous. Iginla signs with Boston for 1.8 million plus bonuses. Why do we not think this way? I am not saying we have to sign everyone but for crying out loud could we not think outside the box once in a while to improve this team? I love this team and I hate it when we miss opportunities to go that step forward. It's like this year is never the year, but as we all know tomorrow never comes. In my restaurant tomorrow is free beer day. Just my ranting and raving cause I want this team to be the champions we all remember, and not the sad sack of excuses we see from year to year to year,

[Meller93]

The Briere signing over guys like Iginla Morrow and Jagr make me feel a little like this too.

Could Bergevin really think Briere is a better fit than those Power forward kind of players?

Briere, Fench Canadian.. I love the habs and I have nothing against French Canadians but I feel like the absolute need for the French connection hurts the team sometimes.

Let's hope were proven wrong and that Bergevin heads in the right direction. I mean he has done well so far I think.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Meller93

[C-Love]

I like the fact that Bergevin is not signing every free agent that want's to come to Montreal. I think it also shows that the organization is on the right track. 10 years ago, noone was knocking on the door and expressing their interest to play in this market publicly. I think teams overpay with UFA's and it handcuffs their organization down the road, we will build this team through the draft and adding role players through free agency. I have no issues with that as well. Having said that Morrow would appear to be a good addition if the price was right.

[Guest Stogey24]

The Briere signing over guys like Iginla Morrow and Jagr make me feel a little like this too.

Could Bergevin really think Briere is a better fit than those Power forward kind of players?

Briere, Fench Canadian.. I love the habs and I have nothing against French Canadians but I feel like the absolute need for the French connection hurts the team sometimes.

Let's hope were proven wrong and that Bergevin heads in the right direction. I mean he has done well so far I think.

Time and time again it's always the ethnicity over the more beneficial player. If Briere is able to stay healthy, he could be an asset to Montreal. I have no doubt about that statement. The problem is he isn't filling any gaps that we have on our roster. I guess a trade could still happen though, right?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Time and time again it's always the ethnicity over the more beneficial player. If Briere is able to stay healthy, he could be an asset to Montreal. I have no doubt about that statement. The problem is he isn't filling any gaps that we have on our roster. I guess a trade could still happen though, right?

Which French Canadians did Gainey sign in 2009 over the more beneficial player?

Briere was signed because of his playoff scoring.

[Guest Stogey24]

Which French Canadians did Gainey sign in 2009 over the more beneficial player?

Briere was signed because of his playoff scoring.

Where did I say Gainey did that. Mb signed a 35 year old, injury prone under sized player, that just came off a 16 point season. Your telling that a guy like Morrow, Iginla, or Jagr wouldn't have been a more meaningful pick up. We have to get the playoffs before anything can be said about Briere's "playoff scoring".

[Kiwihab]

Im not sure if its the right way or not, but I would say it must be exciting to be a flyers or rangers fan. Every year they are in on whatever big name free agent seems to be available.

Obviously you can point out the flyers problems in goal and on D and the rangers just sacked their coach so like I said, it may not be the right way, but its exciting to watch.

Saying all that I was on board with what MB did last season. At the moment I am a little confused with the Briere move but am willing to give the benefit of the doubt and see what happens this season.

But I do understand your frustration.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

. It's like this year is never the year, but as we all know tomorrow never comes. In my restaurant tomorrow is free beer day. Just my ranting and raving cause I want this team to be the champions we all remember, and not the sad sack of excuses we see from year to year to year,

Yep. I'm 27, and hearing "this year is the year" has never happened. Maybe when I was 6 and they won the Cup, but I don't remember that far back.

Time and time again it's always the ethnicity over the more beneficial player. If Briere is able to stay healthy, he could be an asset to Montreal. I have no doubt about that statement. The problem is he isn't filling any gaps that we have on our roster. I guess a trade could still happen though, right?

This is overblown when it comes to players. Every French player who does well, or French UFA/Trade that happens, we hear about the "French Factor." The issue I have is with the organization. Why does the organization have to be French? Who cares about the French media? Trying to appease the media is why we have to have a French speaker as coach/GM, and it's s-t-u-p-i-d. No other sports organization does this. This team belongs to everyone, not just the Quebecois.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I understand the frustration, but I'm not sure the argument holds up.

Gainey was definitely stodgy in dealing with public relations, but as a GM he was anything but. He went out and got Kovalev. He shipped out Ribeiro. When he thought the team was in a position to contend, he solidified the lineup by dealing away picks to bring in Lang and Tanguay. And then he blew up the entire organization from top to bottom and signed bascially every free agent on the market when he realized that Rebuild 1.0 was a failure. He was also heavily rumoured to be hard-drivingly in the mix to acquire Briere as a UFA and to get Hossa as a rental in the 2008 stretch drive - not to mention the terrifying rumour that he was going to ship out ace young players for Lecavalier.

In short, he was a bold GM. Maybe TOO bold.

Gauthier was even worse in his media dealings. He wasn't around long enough to say much about his "stodginess" in hockey affairs, though.

That leaves MB. It's still too early to tell, but so far he looks to be a weird inversion of Gainey: loose and flamboyant in media relations where Bob was constipated, but oddly restrained in hockey moves. He played it cautious with the Subban contract, presumably because he wasn't sure about PK's "character." The result is we saved money for two years only to be on the hook for an $8 million cap hit come 2014. For reasons that still baffle me, he showed zero interest in Jagr (or Ray Whintey) last year, when our lineup had huge holes and they could have been signed to short-term deals. This year, well, we know that story. That said, are we really missing much? Jagr is one year older. Iginla wants to win a Cup and therefore would not sign with us. Morrow is a good bottom-6er but no superstar. Lecavalier was a 5-year commitment. None of these guys are grade-A UFAs.

For my money, it's pretty clear that MB wants to avoid committing to long-term cap hits on overpaid UFAs because he believes in "building the right way," i.e., from within. This does indeed make for some "stodgy" summers, but I think we should wait until MB has a team that is clearly within striking distance of contention and see what he does, before declaring him stodgy. It's not about bold moves for their own sake - it's about not being afraid to make bold moves when they are called for.

As for the claim that "it's never the year," I think what you're really complaining about, ultimately, is the failure of the first Gainey rebuild. We are still recovering from that, and only part-way into the second proper rebuild (the UFA team of 2009-12 having been a stopgap measure). You don't have "The Year" by wishful thinking, you have it by putting a kick-ass team in place, and to do that you need a pipeline of top-notch talent from within. This takes time.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

As for the claim that "it's never the year," I think what you're really complaining about, ultimately, is the failure of the first Gainey rebuild. We are still recovering from that, and only part-way into the second proper rebuild (the UFA team of 2009-12 having been a stopgap measure). You don't have "The Year" by wishful thinking, you have it by putting a kick-ass team in place, and to do that you need a pipeline of top-notch talent from within. This takes time.

This has been going on since the Roy trarde. Granted, we have a good pipeline of young players, but this franchise has given us 1 ECF run to cheer about since we got Jocelyn Thibault. Anyone who is anything but disappointed in the last 20 years of being a Canadiens fan is dillusional.

Since the last Cup run in '92-93 the following teams have made it to the Stanley Cup Finals

Chicago

Boston

LA

NJD

Vancouver

Philadelphia

Detroit

Pittsburgh

Florida

Washington

Dallas

Buffalo

Colorado

Carolina

Anaheim

Tampa Bay

Edmonton

Ottawa

NYR

That's 19 teams! These guys stink!

[Commandant]

We are close to the cap. If we signed one of these contracts it would put us into the bonus cushion, meaning that if the player hit his bonuses we'd be taking cap space away from 2014-15 season, when Subban and Eller get raises. Doesn't seem like a smart plan to me.

Now if you are a team like Boston with a chance at the cup, then using the bonus cushion on an iginla might make sense.

But we are a team building towards the future, and not going for a 1 year run. In that way an Iginla type deal doesn't make sense for the Habs as you could be tying up money for future years when we are ready for the cup run.

MB has repeatedly said he's building through the draft, and to me it seems that with the moves he's made thats exactly whats going on. Briere is the stop gap til guys like Collberg, Hudon, Bozon, McCarron, DelaRose and the other prospects are ready.

Briere's contract structure and the way it works in the cap is very different than Jagrs.

The Devils aren't close to the cap so they can do the bonus thing without hitting the cushion and risking future years, even if he hits the bonuses the devils are so far below the cap, they won't have the carry forward penalty anyway.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Stodgy is the right word. "Prim; pompous." Between Martin and his stupid little notebook, or Bergevin saying "character" twenty times an interview (like every other team looks for jerks) or the million other examples, this is an organization that enjoys a face full of it's own gas.

[dlbalr]

This year we had Jagr say I want to play for Montreal.... do we sign him? NO he signs with Jersey for 2mill plus 2 mill bonuses . Lou Lam is a smart guy, the best Gm in the land. We have Brendon Morrow say I want to play for the Habs. Do we sign him? NO. (at least not yet) I remember when we did not think anybody wanted to sign in Montreal. I know it's early and a lot can happen this summer but why the heck do I get the feeling this is just another year and thank the great pumpkin, we are making money. Improve the team? ahhh lets not rock the boat, we are making money. I think MB actually forced Ryan White to take a 12,000 dollar pay cut to have a 2 way contract. Has this team sunk that low? 12 grand? come on that is ludicrous. Iginla signs with Boston for 1.8 million plus bonuses. Why do we not think this way? I am not saying we have to sign everyone but for crying out loud could we not think outside the box once in a while to improve this team?

Jagr: I'm thrilled the Habs didn't give him that deal. He maxes out on the bonuses at 45 GP, he'll get that as long as he doesn't have a long-term injury. He's not worth anywhere near that at that stage. As for his agent saying he'd like to play for the Habs, Jagr has made it more than clear that he wants to play for anyone...that's willing to pay him more than anyone else.

Morrow: We had a report from a Montreal radio guy who interviewed an RDS guy (Carbonneau) who said Morrow said he'd be willing to play in Montreal and his agent said preliminary talks were held. That's a far cry from him publicly saying, "I want to play for Montreal."

White: Bergevin didn't force White to do anything. It was White's choice to file for arbitration and White's choice to settle beforehand, receiving a $12,000 pay raise on a one-way deal, not a $12,000 pay cut on a two-way deal.

Iginla: As Commandant noted, do you really want to put the Habs into a cap penalty for next year before this one even begins? (I'm sure a lot of Iginla's bonuses are easy to hit, much like Jagr or Alfredsson who signed similar deals.) Besides, the Habs weren't on his list of desired destinations three months ago, I'm not sure much has changed since then.

[habs rule]

OK guys thanks for all the feed back. As to the Jagr and Iginla deals I was merely pointing out Gm's who think outside the box. Also next year the cap is going up so they can afford to spend a little of it now. And no I don't want to handicap the team for years to come simply to be a first round out of the playofffs ( we have been plenty good enough at that already). As to the Morrow rumour I have never known Guy Carbonneau to be a bald faced liar, as a matter of fact part of his coaching problem was he as too honest and too direct. Not very devious our Mr Carbo. And if I am not mistaken Mr Whites qualifying offer was for 722,00.00 but could be a 2way contract which MB made it. When arbitration was claimed they settled on 700,000 but gave him his 1 way contract. so they saved $22,000, were they sending him a message or being cheap. who knows?

Building through the draft is a great idea but we been doing it for 20 years maybe a little modification is needed. Good older veterans can help a young team in many ways, more than goals and assists. I think of Hal Gill helping PK the rambunctious one out. Maybe Carey could use an older veteran who has won a cup as a backup and mentor. Not that Abby is not a reasonable goalie but maybe a backup who was successful and has experience in a high pressure market like maybe a Jose Theodore. I just want to see this team moving forward, not sitting on it's hands every year, I think the only team in as bad a situation as us for rebuilding through the draft is the Edmonton Oilers. That has worked great for them hasn't it? Great young players who can't win sh1t. Again this is a rant not a political statement. Thank you for reading and providing your input.

[Commandant]

OK guys thanks for all the feed back. As to the Jagr and Iginla deals I was merely pointing out Gm's who think outside the box. Also next year the cap is going up so they can afford to spend a little of it now. And no I don't want to handicap the team for years to come simply to be a first round out of the playofffs ( we have been plenty good enough at that already).

Regardless of whether the cap is going up or not, wouldn't you want all that space and not use some on a year we aren't ready to go all the way?

As to the Morrow rumour I have never known Guy Carbonneau to be a bald faced liar, as a matter of fact part of his coaching problem was he as too honest and too direct. Not very devious our Mr Carbo. And if I am not mistaken Mr Whites qualifying offer was for 722,00.00 but could be a 2way contract which MB made it. When arbitration was claimed they settled on 700,000 but gave him his 1 way contract. so they saved $22,000, were they sending him a message or being cheap. who knows?

Exactly, who knows... and if White wanted more he could have gone to arbitration. Signing a contract is a two way street, both sides agreed.

Building through the draft is a great idea but we been doing it for 20 years maybe a little modification is needed. Good older veterans can help a young team in many ways, more than goals and assists. I think of Hal Gill helping PK the rambunctious one out. Maybe Carey could use an older veteran who has won a cup as a backup and mentor. Not that Abby is not a reasonable goalie but maybe a backup who was successful and has experience in a high pressure market like maybe a Jose Theodore. I just want to see this team moving forward, not sitting on it's hands every year, I think the only team in as bad a situation as us for rebuilding through the draft is the Edmonton Oilers. That has worked great for them hasn't it? Great young players who can't win sh1t. Again this is a rant not a political statement. Thank you for reading and providing your input.

We've been building through the draft for 20 years? No we havent.

Our drafting was SHIT in the 90s... absolute garbage. That wasn't building.

Gainey in 2009 blew out all the FAs and signed a bunch of free agents... thats not building via the draft, thats building in free agency. Gainey and Gauthier regularly traded picks to get Tanguay, Schneider, Moore, Wisniewski, etc.... etc.... thats not building via the draft either. What MB is doing is different from what happened for 20 years and what worked for them in Chicago.

[habs rule]

We've been building through the draft for 20 years? No we havent.

Our drafting was SHIT in the 90s... absolute garbage. That wasn't building.

Gainey in 2009 blew out all the FAs and signed a bunch of free agents... thats not building via the draft, thats building in free agency. Gainey and Gauthier regularly traded picks to get Tanguay, Schneider, Moore, Wisniewski, etc.... etc.... thats not building via the draft either. What MB is doing is different from what happened for 20 years and what worked for them in Chicago.

well I guess we will wait and see. thanks

[dlbalr]

And if I am not mistaken Mr Whites qualifying offer was for 722,00.00 but could be a 2way contract which MB made it. When arbitration was claimed they settled on 700,000 but gave him his 1 way contract. so they saved $22,000, were they sending him a message or being cheap. who knows?

If White wanted, he could have accepted the QO at ~$722,000 and earned that in the NHL. They did, however, send him a message. After giving him a one way QO last year when it wasn't needed, they went with the two way this time. It's not being cheap though; like I said, White easily could have taken the QO at the higher amount instead of settling for less guaranteed.

[Guest Stogey24]

If White wanted, he could have accepted the QO at ~$722,000 and earned that in the NHL. They did, however, send him a message. After giving him a one way QO last year when it wasn't needed, they went with the two way this time. It's not being cheap though; like I said, White easily could have taken the QO at the higher amount instead of settling for less guaranteed.

I would liked to have seen the two way contract. Pushes the player a little more.

[Commandant]

Even on a two way, he would still need waivers to be sent down.

Since we would likely lose him on waivers, I don't see them sending him down anyways. In that way the two way wouldn't have changed much IMO.

[Guest Stogey24]

Even on a two way, he would still need waivers to be sent down.

Since we would likely lose him on waivers, I don't see them sending him down anyways. In that way the two way wouldn't have changed much IMO.

Oh, fair enough. I didn't think he had to go through waivers on a two way.

[habs rule]

Even on a two way, he would still need waivers to be sent down.

Since we would likely lose him on waivers, I don't see them sending him down anyways. In that way the two way wouldn't have changed much IMO.

then he probably needs a new agent. cause this one just cost him 22,000 dollars.

[dlbalr]

Oh, fair enough. I didn't think he had to go through waivers on a two way.

Two-way contracts only define salaries at each level. Age and NHL experience define waiver eligibility.

then he probably needs a new agent. cause this one just cost him 22,000 dollars.

To me, it's evident that there is a concern that a) the Habs could waive White and b) that he'd clear. Otherwise, they'd have been wise to accept the QO.

[hab29RETIRED]

Which French Canadians did Gainey sign in 2009 over the more beneficial player?

Briere was signed because of his playoff scoring.

He chased quebec's cousin vinny for two years and nearly made a trade almost as bad as the Gomez trade by trading the future for vinny.

[hab29RETIRED]

Jagr: I'm thrilled the Habs didn't give him that deal. He maxes out on the bonuses at 45 GP, he'll get that as long as he doesn't have a long-term injury. He's not worth anywhere near that at that stage. As for his agent saying he'd like to play for the Habs, Jagr has made it more than clear that he wants to play for anyone...that's willing to pay him more than anyone else.

Morrow: We had a report from a Montreal radio guy who interviewed an RDS guy (Carbonneau) who said Morrow said he'd be willing to play in Montreal and his agent said preliminary talks were held. That's a far cry from him publicly saying, "I want to play for Montreal."

White: Bergevin didn't force White to do anything. It was White's choice to file for arbitration and White's choice to settle beforehand, receiving a $12,000 pay raise on a one-way deal, not a $12,000 pay cut on a two-way deal.

Iginla: As Commandant noted, do you really want to put the Habs into a cap penalty for next year before this one even begins? (I'm sure a lot of Iginla's bonuses are easy to hit, much like Jagr or Alfredsson who signed similar deals.) Besides, the Habs weren't on his list of desired destinations three months ago, I'm not sure much has changed since then.

I think we should have gone for Jagr last year and this year. I'd rather have Jagr and dump salaries like Moen and Bouillon. Jagr did wonders for Giroux and I think he would have been great for Galchenyuk as well. the flyers and Stars players had nothing but good things to say about Jagr.

[dlbalr]

I think we should have gone for Jagr last year and this year. I'd rather have Jagr and dump salaries like Moen and Bouillon. Jagr did wonders for Giroux and I think he would have been great for Galchenyuk as well. the flyers and Stars players had nothing but good things to say about Jagr.

Those two combined don't make what Jagr's getting, not to mention the fact you'd have to add a second salary for the replacement for Bouillon. If you replace Bouillon with a $1M d-man, you're adding nearly $2 million in payroll and they don't have that (unless you're playing to go over the cap before the season begins which, for this team, doesn't make sense right now).